Grand Hero Battles 2018: Who Do You Want?

[Humanoid]

Eh, it's certainly justifiable for some weapons. Never played the Ike games personally so no idea how they worked there, but Fates pulled some crap like giving archer bosses "Steel Shortbow" for example, which is identical to Steel Bow in every respect except it has 1-2 range. Care should be taken to limit DC/CC access to weapons, where the justification goes beyond "well it had it in the source game".

[Captain Karnage]

I want Xander to come back, I wish I hadn't missed my chance to get him

[bottlegnomes]

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

This man catches and crushes Roy's sword with one hand in the Hasha manga and only falls after Roy switches to an effective weapon (Rapier) and catches two Elfires with the tip to stab into him. Tomahawk when?

I enjoyed the manga overall, but that scene was so freaking sweet.

He also builds himself pretty easily.

Weapon: Sturdy Tomohawk - Built in DC

Command: None

Special: Eustecheon

A: Defiant Defense, Brazen Atk/Def, or Def/Res if we want to differentiate him from Chromsmas a little.

B: Wary Fighter

C: None

Stats: Switch Chromsmas's attack and def. Maybe shift around/drop a few points, but that's the general gist.

Had been thinking about a build that would make less sense and almost certainly make him worse, but might be a way to differentiate him some. Basically his weapon gives Wary Fighter 3, maybe 4 where it either like prevents follows all the time or only limits the enemy's follow-ups above 50% health, and switch out his A skill for DC and B skill for Vantage.

[Vince777]

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Magic weapons say otherwise.

By that logic, Ragnell, Alondite, and Gurgurant also have no business having 1-2 range because Ragnell is only usable by a player unit, the bosses using Alondite and Gurgurant are capable of moving, and the only weapons capable of damaging their users are melee-ranged weapons (Ragnell is the only 1-2 range weapon that can damage them, but we've made it 1 range because of the previous reasoning).

Ashnard does not move unless you play the hardest mode, which most players will not.

As a stationary final boss, he needed the 1-2.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Vince777

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Ashnard does not move unless you play the hardest mode, which most players will not.

As a stationary final boss, he needed the 1-2.

If I recall correctly, Ashnard is invincible to everything except Ragnell, the Laguz generals, and the dragons.

The weapons of the Laguz generals and the dragons are all 1 range, and Ragnell by our logic should be 1 range (because it is not the weapon of a stationary boss), meaning there was no reason for Gurgurant to have 1-2 range other than to be able to counterattack all of the things that can't do damage to him in the first place.

[Vince777]

Both Gurgurant and Alondite must necessarily be 1-2 if Ragnell was made this way since both Ashnard and the Black Knight are designed to be fought with Ike.

The laguz royals and dragons do damage Ashnard but from memory they don't hurt him much when compared to Ike.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Vince777

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Both Gurgurant and Alondite must necessarily be 1-2 if Ragnell was made this way since both Ashnard and the Black Knight are designed to be fought with Ike.

The laguz royals and dragons do damage Ashnard but from memory they don't hurt him much when compared to Ike.

But Ragnell isn't a weapon used by a stationary boss and therefore has no business being 1-2 range, which is the premise we are using: that weapons with 1-2 range exist specifically to prevent stationary bosses from being trivialized. Ragnell having 1-2 range is not axiomatic under our current circumstances.

This means that Alondite has zero business having 1-2 range because the only weapon that can deal damage to its user is Ragnell, which now has 1 range, and Gurgurant has zero business having 1-2 range because the only weapons that can deal damage to its user are also now 1 range.

[Vince777]

All bosses carry 1-2 weapons. It would be ridiculous if they didn't and important stationary enemy bosses with legendary weapons will need the 1-2 effect on them. It's almost guaranteed that the effect will be there. When they don't, there's something else at play that prevents you from cheesing them with 1-2, like Raydrick's Loptyr Sword. Occasionally, they might move. 

A few weapons used by the players do but they are either weaker (javelin/hand axe), have very limited uses (tomahawk), or are designed this way to represent their legendary nature and contribute to them just being really powerful (Ragnell/Binding Blade). These weapons were made to wreck and they are amongst the series' best because of it.

Of course it doesn't apply to player-used weapons.  That bosses need 1-2 weapons as a rule does not mean that Ragnell cannot exist because it isn't a part of it. 

If someone like Petrine is introduced, I hope they think of something better for her Flame Lance than just give it DC.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Vince777

[Vince777]

oops double post.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Vince777

[Wanda]

Idunn. Lyon. Ishtar. Julius. Manfroy. Emperor Arvis. Sonia. Ismaire. Cormag. Raydrik.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Wanda

[Ice Dragon]

17 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

All bosses carry 1-2 weapons.

That's obviously not true.

 

17 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Of course it doesn't apply to player-used weapons.  That bosses need 1-2 weapons as a rule does not mean that Ragnell cannot exist because it isn't a part of it.

Actually, it does because the post I originally responded to asserted that the existence of 1-2 range is a gameplay mechanic specifically designed to prevent bosses from being trivialized.

If that statement were true, no player-exclusive weapon would have 1-2 range (outside of weapon types that have that by default).

 

 

Also, while I'm at it, I'm pretty sure you've been misunderstanding my argument because you're reading each of my posts as a standalone post and not as a response to a whole thread of posts.

[Humanoid]

Was just about to say that I wasn't intending to assert that *all* DC weapons are an anti-cheese mechanic, but reading back my original post it does appear I'm missing the word "often", so my bad on starting an argument around semantics. I do know at the very least, Xander and Ryoma will both actively engage you under certain circumstances for instance. I have absolutely no problem with them having DC. I don't think "Zeke" should have DC based on his Echoes design but I've never encountered his other incarnations so I can't say for sure.

I do assert that given the frequency of this type of boss encounter, it is the intended purpose most of the time, and that FEH would be a poorer game if every unit that had 1-2 range in their original game was given DC (and that second thing is the important one). I only played FE7 for the first time last year and so many fights including the final one were so anticlimactic because of this design. The 3DS games at least cover it up a bit using infinitely respawning mooks to put some pressure on the player, rather than encouraging the cheese of walking up to bosses, hitting once on enemy phase, then backing out to heal.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Humanoid

[Shiki]

23 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

This man catches and crushes Roy's sword with one hand in the Hasha manga and only falls after Roy switches to an effective weapon (Rapier) and catches two Elfires with the tip to stab into him. Tomahawk when?

While he almost crushes Roy's entire party by himself. Though this is the same manga that allowed Zephiel dual-wield Eckesachs and the Binding Blade.
... We have Stout Tomahawk. Unless its japanese name mentions Dorcas?

23 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm not convinced they'll give Gurgurant Distant Counter, though, like how Eckesachs doesn't have it despite 1-2 range being literally its only notable feature.

One can dream. The other released DC weapons that came after have it in their own games, too (Ragnell, Alondite and Tomahawk).

Edited January 6, 2018 by Talandar

[TheNiddo]

Linus - I think it would be cool had an inverse bonus of Lloyd's: bonuses when fighting already injured enemies.
Walhart - DC Axe? Maybe? To round out the trio of "GHB Horses with DC weapons"
Lyon - No brainer. Not sure what his tome should do though.
Dheginsea - GHB dragon plz
Rudolph - Not that we need more red armours, but its the only one worthwhile from Echoes I can think of unless they decided to give Deen the Navarre treatment. 

[Solaris998]

57 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

Rudolph - Not that we need more red armours, but its the only one worthwhile from Echoes I can think of unless they decided to give Deen the Navarre treatment. 

Rudolph isn't a sword armor unit though, he's a lance cavalier/gold knight so that's what he would be if he ever got into Heroes.

[Medeus]

Hardin, Medeus, Julius, Travant, Linus, Lyon, Ashnard, Jarod, Dheginsea, Sephiran, and Walhart.

 

[Ice Dragon]

7 hours ago, Talandar said:

... We have Stout Tomahawk. Unless its japanese name mentions Dorcas?

Stout Tomahawk in Japanese translates roughly as "Hardened Axe, Tomahawk".

I more just want them to add an inheritable Tomahawk+ (and Spear+), probably 11 Mt like Lightning Breath+.

[Rapier]

On 04/01/2018 at 7:29 PM, Rapier said:

•  
• Oliver (as a lethal joke character)

I'm... deeply sorry about this, guys.

I think

[TheSwedishX]

19 hours ago, Rapier said:

I'm... deeply sorry about this, guys.

I think

Just shows anything will be possible. 

[bottlegnomes]

Well, y'all know what this means. Meme Dheginsea harder, all the material is there. If we meme him hard enough, they might listen.

[Nowi's Husband]

Ashnard, Walhardt, and Bryce for a trio of DC weapons.  Fliers don't have any DC, armors have BK and Hector but no lance DC, and horses have Xander and Camus but no axe DC.  I'd also like Lyon and Sephiran.  I'm happy we already have Valter and Oliver, those were the two biggest ones I wanted since day 1.

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, Nowi's Husband said:

Hector

If you count Hector as a Distant Counter unit, you also have to count every melee unit in the game.

[Nowi's Husband]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you count Hector as a Distant Counter unit, you also have to count every melee unit in the game.

Nevermind that then, thought of him cause he had it already without having to sacrifice someone else.  Maybe we could get a Garon GHB as an armored axe with DC.  

[MilodicMellodi]

Give us back Xander, dammit.

[Baldrick]

Xavier.

Thracia needs representation, and he's the best candidate for a canon Bow Armour.

His infernal map could be "match the NPCs to the enemies"

Edited January 18, 2018 by Baldrick