Weapon Refinery Upgrades You Would Like to See?

[Alexmender]

Sieglinde comes first and foremost. I can think of a few ideas considering Eirika's strengths. Instead of giving Sieglinde follow up attacks like Siegmund or Desperation like Sol Katti I'd prefer a focus on support/teamwork. A more offensive version would include a Bond Atk/x skill alongside Hone Atk 3 which would benefit both Eirika and her teammates from sticking together. A more defensive option would be to have hone atk 3 (or 5) and something like def tactic to make her teammates even stronger which makes her role as a buffer even stronger albeit a bit niche considering the mixed movement restrictions.

Now there are other weapons like Binding Blade, Parthia, Regal Blade, etc. which also need a significant buff but I'm not the one to think about which kind of effects they'd have.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

I don't like it and I suspect IS doesn't either (so much that they're holding on re-releasing Camus/Xander). 

Actually, Xander's and Camus's Grand Hero Battles are most likely delayed because they've been doing the pre-Infernal reruns in the order that they were originally released after the Infernal difficulty was added.

Which means Zephiel's will be next, followed by Valter's (every third Grand Hero Battle rerun is the next post-Infernal Grand Hero Battle in order, and Berkut's was the most recent in that category), followed by Xander's, followed by Camus's, assuming they aren't rerunning Lloyd (because they already did that one before Narcian's).

 

55 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Directional buttons are buttons too :(

Only when they're separate like on old Playstation controllers.

 

47 minutes ago, Logos said:

DC is good, but I feel like you're saying it's good because it's rare. It's great, but no one A Skill is 100% better than another, each one has it's perks. Also the HP+3 boost happens whenever you upgrade a legendary weapon to it's special effect. If it was not a special effect, and just a regular boost it would be HP+5.

Completely ignoring availability, Distant Counter on a weapon is good because it frees up the A slot for a different skill, like Steady Breath or Distant Def.

Units that want to run Distant Counter want to run Distant Counter and don't care which slot it takes up as long as it's there. If Distant Counter can be put on the weapon slot, that unit is free to run any A skill in their A slot, but if Distant Counter is forced to be put on the A slot, that unit is only able to pick from the smaller pool of skills available on the weapon slot for a second A-slot skill.

 

27 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

Sieglinde could get the same upgrade similar to Siegmund

Unlike Ephraim, Eirika doesn't need a guaranteed follow-up attack when initiating combat, though, because it doesn't suit her stat distribution well.

 

6 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

A more defensive option would be to have hone atk 3 (or 5) and something like def tactic to make her teammates even stronger which makes her role as a buffer even stronger albeit a bit niche considering the mixed movement restrictions.

A defensive effect would contradict the nature of the original weapon. In the original game, Sieglinde's effect was +5 Str and effective damage against monsters.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Xenomata]

Spoiler

 

Parthia: Ignores all Field buffs on enemy Mages.

Brynhildr: Enemy Tomes, Breaths, and Staves deal 50% damage on the first attack.

Cymbeline: Effective against Cavalry units.

Yato: Increases All Stats by 1.

Sieglinde: When fighting at 50% or more HP, each of this units hits inflicts Special Cooldown -1 on the enemy (enemies Special Cooldown actively builds up rather than goes down)

Binding Blade: Gain Distant Counter. If opponents range =1, units attack targets the lower of the opponents defensive stats.

 

Just... you know, some ideas I thought of on the spot.

[Alexmender]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

A defensive effect would contradict the nature of the original weapon. In the original game, Sieglinde's effect was +5 Str and effective damage against monsters.

Then the Atk/x Bond effect it is. That gives +5 Atk while also keeping her current buffer role of sticking together to her teammates. Personally I'd go with an Atk/Spd Bond effect alongside Hone Atk 3 but if that's too much then just having the Atk boost would be good enough. 

[NekoKnight]

I don't think Blade tomes and DC weapons need buffs. Is there any DC weapon user that works better with a different weapon? Probably not. Blade tomes are the same. We don't need to buff weapons that already get used the most. I think upgrading Lightning Breath was a mistake too (beyond the damage calculation change that all breath weapons get).

Here are some other ideas. The goal is to let them have a distinct role from other units/weapons in the game.

Yato: Damage increased by displayed buffs. Special Cooldown +1.

This would reference the Yato getting boosted by Corrin's Nakama in Fates.

Brynhildr: Pain+ and Gravity+ effects.

Falchion: Recover 10 HP every turn + effective damage vs breath weapons.

Excalibur: Close Counter + Close Def 2

Aura: Breath of Life 3 and for healing effects (including other skills equipped) to affect allies within 2 tiles.

Binding Blade: +6 def/res when attacked.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Nidhogg upgraded to either +2 Atk/Spd/Def/Res for every ally within 2 squares or +3 Atk/Spd/Def/Res for every ally within 1 square as its unique refine.

Parthia upgraded from Warding Blow 2 to Res +5 for its base effect and 50% damage reduction from an opposing tome user's first attack as its unique refine.

Noatun upgraded from Escape Route 2 to Escape Route 3 for its base effect and Wings of Mercy 3 as its unique refine.

Eckesachs upgraded from Threaten Def 2 to Def Ploy 3 with an HP comparison instead of a Res comparison for its base effect and Blizzard's special effect as its unique refine.

Also these.

[Humanoid]

The ones that have me torn are the gem weapons. I originally thought no when the refinery was opened since I consider them a step above unrefined silver and armourslayer weapons. But then I had mistakenly assumed Wo Dao wasn't refinable. When compared to that, I start thinking gem weapons could need a boost.

[Hilda]

6 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

I would be extremely careful about boosting blade tomes in any way. If anything I feel like Brave and Firesweep weapons deserve the power creep long before Blade tomes. 

But before any of that, yeah obviously there's plenty of personal weapons that need a re-evaluation. And no, you won't have the divine dew to pay for any of the upgrades. Distant Counter weapons are still great though. And so are the Falchions until they add dragon slaying weapons or skills. In the case of Falchion, maybe build a different type of "Exalted/Parallel/Regal/Valentian" Falchion upgrade that's geared specifically to those character's niches. 

Brave Weapons and Firesweep weapons definitly dont need a boost. Brave Weapons give units allready enough offensiv power. Firesweep weapons are the best playerphase weapons existing and are powerfull for what they are designed to do.

Distant Counter weapons need a slight upgrade imho. Ryoma, Ike and Xander have been outclassed by Ayra and Eldigan that can run Distant Counter in their A-Slot and do a much better job. Dorcas seems to be a footnote and not existant anymore in Arena, even tough he is the 1. Distant Counter axe user. Blade Tomes definitly dont need an upgrade yet.

Armads: dont know, with the addition of Bold Fighter 3 and Heavy Blade 3 Hector is more scary then ever before if he runs those 2 skills, but leaving Armads out is eh. But its delicate to touch this weapon, because the new skill could break the game. I think some RES+ refinement for Armads would be ok, because in no world should a Reinhardt be able to just straight out kill Hector.

Eckesachs: As DragonIce mentioned Change his Threaten Def 2 into a DefPloy 3 that is based on def or HP stat. Giving him a Blizzard-gunnthra like effect is too much. Sheena can run Ploy skills very efficient and the other Armores could run Smoke skills, on top of that you might have even some Armor Emblem buffs. I think he should get the Dragonstone treatment and let check the defensiv stats that is the lowest of the unit oposing.

anyway list could go on and on, i leave it to the Devs. I just hope they arent dumb enough to touch Brave Weapons, Firesweep Weapons, Blade Tomes and Dire thunder

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

Giving him a Blizzard-gunnthra like effect is too much. Sheena can run Ploy skills very efficient and the other Armores could run Smoke skills, on top of that you might have even some Armor Emblem buffs. I think he should get the Dragonstone treatment and let check the defensiv stats that is the lowest of the unit oposing.

Breath weapons have a legitimate reason to hit the weaker of Def and Res, though, since they don't consistently hit the same defensive stat between games, and several games have the stronger breath weapons ignore defensive stats altogether.

Personally, I don't think giving Eckesachs the debuff-Litrblade effect is overdoing it (though I'll have to check if Panicked bonuses count and, if so, if they stack with Atk gained from standard penalties). Offensive armor teams are already forced to give up half of their C slots for Armor March, and the ability to run Ploy and Smoke skills is not anything special to armor teams. Gunnthra has far more mobility and reach and a much easier time landing debuffs on opponents with a much less restrictive team composition than Zephiel.

EDIT: Panicked bonuses don't count for Blizzard.

 

A more novel effect, though, could be "if the opponent has a status ailment or stat penalties, this unit performs a guaranteed follow-up attack [and the opponent cannot]" with the part in brackets depending on how mean we want to be.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Breath weapons have a legitimate reason to hit the weaker of Def and Res, though, since they don't consistently hit the same defensive stat between games, and several games have the stronger breath weapons ignore defensive stats altogether.

Personally, I don't think giving Eckesachs the debuff-Litrblade effect is overdoing it (though I'll have to check if Panicked bonuses count and, if so, if they stack with Atk gained from standard penalties). Offensive armor teams are already forced to give up half of their C slots for Armor March, and the ability to run Ploy and Smoke skills is not anything special to armor teams. Gunnthra has far more mobility and reach and a much easier time landing debuffs on opponents with a much less restrictive team composition than Zephiel.

EDIT: Panicked bonuses don't count for Blizzard.

 

A more novel effect, though, could be "if the opponent has a status ailment or stat penalties, this unit performs a guaranteed follow-up attack [and the opponent cannot]" with the part in brackets depending on how mean we want to be.

I can live with this + with the opponent cannot. In other words Bold Fighter + Wary Fighter + Super quick riposte in one, but without the special cooldown charge bonus, which is a good skill for Zephiel in my eyes. Still a very very powerfull skill, would maybe additionally restrict it to above 50% HP due to its usefullness.

[Kaden]

17 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

Durandal having DB3 probably wouldn't be all that broken. It's only +2 over regular Durandal.

In addition to that, Siegbert's Dark Greatsword has built-in Swift Sparrow 2, +4 Atk/Spd when initiating, compared to regular Durandal's Death Blow 2, +4 when initiating, and Yato's Darting Blow 2, +4 Spd when initiating. Built-in Death Blow 3 wouldn't be that bad.

Anyway, I do support the idea that the evolvable weapons can be forged along with Assassin's Bow. Guard Bow is great, but sometimes having built-in Daggerbreaker that doesn't have a health requirement other than not being dead on the counter hit is useful, so being able to normally forge Assassin's Bow+ would be neat. Aura, Excalibur, Naga, and Tyrfing have different effects compared to their evolved versions that there's some use from them. At least compared to Durandal going from Death Blow 2 to +3 Atk and Heavy Blade 3 when evolved to Blazing Durandal, but anyway.

In particular, the introduction of the Brazen skills can complement Tyrfing's +4 Def in combat when at <= 50% HP. Brazen skills activate at <= 80% HP, so there's two options I can see with a forged Tyrfing. One is that forging it increases the health range where its ability activates at <= 80% HP, so with Brazen Atk Def 3, Seliph could get +7 Atk and +11 Def when at <= 80% HP. The other option is that the effect is stronger like +7 Def in which case, Seliph with Brazen Atk Def and a forged Tyrfing would progressively get tougher and tougher as you damage him; +7 Atk/Def when at <= 80% HP and +7 Atk and +14 Def when at <= 50% HP. Since it's an in battle buff, Panic Ploy wouldn't effect Tyfing or Brazen Atk Def's buffs, but if he does get field buffs like Hone Atk or Def Tactic, then those would get effected.

For Excalibur, I wonder if forging it giving it the ability to target the weaker defensive stat of fliers could work. One of the issues of Excalibur is that fliers tend to have high resistance, especially the pegasus knights, generic or playable. If not, guaranteed follow-ups on fliers. Either of those abilities might be too strong.

On the subject of those weapons being different, it would be awesome if you could forge them back for the units who have the evolved versions. So, like in Shadows of Valentia where you could forge a Shadow Sword into a Brave Sword and a Brave Sword into a Shadow Sword if you changed your mind or want to use the other and its forge paths. Some people might not think it's worth it, but hey, maybe a forged Naga's increased Def/Res when attacked could be helpful on both Julia and Deirdre for some map or maybe you want to use Excalibur on Sonya or easier access to Assassin's Bow+ than getting a Setsuna to 5* assuming an archer is introduced soon with Guard Bow as their default weapon.

Oh, and Dire Thunder's unique forge option being -blade tome effects, but stronger. Who needs Blarblade Reinhardt when you can have Dire Thunderblade Reinhardt? :p

Edited January 4, 2018 by Kaden

[Sunsurge]

Umm, but how about Raven tomes? I may be biased, because Robin is literally my star character (and everyone else useful to me got upgrades), but I feel like Blarraven+ could get a nice upgrade. A natural distant def 2 or something built in? Orrr just a general stat boost. A 13 or 14 Mt would do wonders. Or even just a Death Blow or Swift Sparrow built in would be great.

Otherwise, I'm good.

[Zangetsu]

33 minutes ago, Sunsurge said:

Umm, but how about Raven tomes? I may be biased, because Robin is literally my star character (and everyone else useful to me got upgrades), but I feel like Blarraven+ could get a nice upgrade. A natural distant def 2 or something built in? Orrr just a general stat boost. A 13 or 14 Mt would do wonders. Or even just a Death Blow or Swift Sparrow built in would be great.

Otherwise, I'm good.

Yea, I like that too since M!Robin is the character I've invested the most in.

 

Would giving Roy distant counter make him a viable unit? Would that at least make him as viable as Fjorm?

[bottlegnomes]

5 hours ago, Kaden said:

Big post...

Swift Sparrow in general seems a bit OP. It's almost L&D's boosts with a significantly less detrimental negative effect, and isn't actually far behind the individual blow skills.

Tyrfing could probably get a substantial boost without being too OP. Maybe make it +4 def at all times and brazen or defiant attack?

I personally like the idea of flyer slayer. Fliers already aren't particularly durable as an overall movement type already and bows make short work of them. Why not give Excalibur a boost to make it a really effective flyer killer? It probably actually wouldn't change the meta much, but at least it'd give Merric a niche as a flyer nuke.

Giving Dierdre and company access to the "unevolved" forms word be nice.

Oh, jeeze, Reinhardt doesn't need anymore buffs. I mean, I love him and I'm glad he's a top tier character, but let's be kind to people.

@Sunsurge @Zangetsu Raven tomes might be good with a boost to stats, but in terms of effects, they seem fine to me. They give any tome user an advantage over half the weapon types in the game.

I'm a little torn on Armads. One one hand, Hector's plenty good already; on the other hand, at this point, Armads's effect is rather minor comparatively. Then again, QR is still a fantastic skill. Regal Blade could probably use a buff, but nothing too major.

One that I'd like to see, but is probably a bit much is a killer weapon that gives -2 special trigger. Was maybe hoping that Eldigan would get that, but that means every hit is a moonbow or a 1 charge Luna or Draconic Aura.

Edited January 5, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Zangetsu]

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

I'm a little torn on Armads. One one hand, Hector's plenty good already; on the other hand, at this point, Armad's effect is rather minor comparatively. Then again, QR is still a fantastic skill.

Geez, what more Hector could have? High RES & being immune to the weapon triangle?

Edited January 5, 2018 by Zangetsu

[bottlegnomes]

5 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Geez, what more could Hector to have? High RES & being immune to the weapon triangle?

That's why I'm torn. On one hand, Armads is now a personal weapon with only a level 2 skill attached. On the other hand, QR is a fantastic skill no matter what, and Hector is already fantastic.

[The Lord Of Gems]

Binding Blade - Grants Defense/Resistance +3. Unit Can Counterattack From Any Distance.

Brynhildr - Inflicts Gravity Status On Target And Other Enemies Within Two Spaces. If Unit Receives Consecutive Attacks From Tomes Or Staves, Damage From Second Attack Onward Is Reduced By 50%.

Eckesachs - At The Start Of Turn, Enemies Within 2 Spaces Suffer Defense -7. Unit Can Counterattack From Any Distance.

Parthia - If Unit Initiates Combat, Grants Attack/Resistance +4. Units Within Two Spaces Of Target Suffer -7 Attack At The Start Of Their Turn. Effective Against Fliers.

Gradivus - Unit Restores 10 Health Every Other Turn. Unit Can Counterattack From Any Distance.

Siegfried - Grants Defense +4. Unit Can Counterattack From Any Distance.

Raijinto - Grants Attack +4. Unit Can Counterattack From Any Distance.

Ragnell/Alondite - If Unit's HP Is Equal To/Greater Than 80% At The Start Of Combat, Enemy Is Inflicted With Special Cooldown Charge -1.

Cymbeline - Grants +7 Attack/Speed To Self And All Units Within Two Spaces After Combat.

Armads - Grants Defense +3. If Unit Is Attacked At 70% HP Or Higher, Unit Makes A Guaranteed Follow-Up Attack.

Yato - Grants Attack/Speed +4 When Initiating Combat And Grants Defense/Resistance +4 When Attacked.

Sieglinde - When Initiating Combat At 75% Or Lower, Unit Automatically Makes A Follow-Up Attack. Grants Attack +5 To Units Adjacent To This Unit At The Start Of Turn.

Ragnarok - Grants +5 Attack/Speed When Initiating Combat. Units Within Two Spaces Of Target Suffer HP -7.

Excalibur - Accelerates Special Cooldown -1. Nullifies All Stat Bonuses On Fliers, And Is Effective Against Them.

Aura - Accelerates Special Cooldown -1. Units Within Two Spaces Heal 5 HP After Unit Initiates Combat. 

Regal Blade - Grants Attack/Speed +5 When Initiating Combat. Increases Damage From Specials By 10.

Folkvangr - Grants Defense +3. Grants Attack/Speed +5 When Unit's HP Is Equal To Or Less Than 75%.

Noatun - Grants Attack +3. Unit Can Move Adjacent To Any Ally If HP Is Equal To Or Less Than 75%.

Fensalir - Grants Speed +3. Enemies Within Two Spaces Suffer -5 Speed/Defense At The Start Of Turn.

Falchion - Nullifies Stat Bonuses On Dragons, And Is Effective Against Them. Unit Heals 10 HP Every Other Turn.

Nidhogg - Accelerates Special Trigger -1. During Combat, Units Attack/Speed/Defense/Resistance Is Boosted By The Number Of Allies Within Two Spaces x2. Effective Against Fliers.

Vidofnir - If Unit Is Attacked By Foe Using Sword, Lance, Axe, Bow, Or Dagger, Unit Receives +7 Defense During Combat. Unit Deals +10 Damage On Special Trigger.

Cursed Lance - Grants Attack/Speed/Defense/Resistance +2 And Accelerates Special Trigger -1. Unit Takes 4 Damage After Combat.

Stout Tomahawk - Grants HP + 5 And Attack +3. Unit Can Counterattack From Any Distance.

[Tenzen12]

On 05/01/2018 at 2:31 AM, bottlegnomes said:

That's why I'm torn. On one hand, Armads is now a personal weapon with only a level 2 skill attached. On the other hand, QR is a fantastic skill no matter what, and Hector is already fantastic.

Well, I don't think Hector should get any secondary effect, but QR3 and stat boost wouldn't be that bad imho.

Also no secondary effects to DC weapons, that's just ridiculous.

[Silverly]

I think the ones really crying for a boost are Sieglinde, Yato, Regal Blade, Binding Blade, Parthia, Ecksachs, Cymbeline, and Brunhildr. They range from being powercrept to oblivion to useless from the start. 

I’m torn on Falchion being upgradeable, since it’s already a decent weapon especially considering manaketes are all the rage now. However, Chrom, Alm, and Marth could really use buffs in their own right since they have fairly poor spreads. 

I occasionally see Nidhogg pop up and honestly it’s a fine weapon already. No need for an upgrade... at least for the time being.

[r_n]

Falchion's get a divine upgrade for Exalted Falchion, that adds the ability to ignore bonuses on dragon units in addition to its effective damage and renewal bonus. I don't think any weapon actually gives 3 distinct effects, though unless you count things like the winter weapons happening to have the level 1 stance skills but the falchion will always be a little special to the series so hey why not.

Yato could do something like...swift sparrow when you attack, double stances when attacked. 

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, r_n said:

I don't think any weapon actually gives 3 distinct effects

Urdhr has Blaze Dance 2, Gale Dance 2, and Geyser Dance 1.

[eclipse]

Cymbeline, first and foremost.  Sanaki's skills are give attack and give more attack, and that's just lame.  I'd do something like Atk boost on top of something else (maybe Heavy Blade?).

Binding Blade needs a better effect, full stop.  The defense on attack doesn't cut it with Roy's stats.

Parthia should have a permanent Res boost.  Its other function was to shoot wyverns out of the sky, but it already does that well enough!

Would really like each Falchion to evolve a little differently!  Lucina gets Parallel Falchion, Chrom gets Exalted Falchion, Alm gets something unique, and Marth gets a choice.

Brynhilder needs. . .something more.  Maybe give it an innate Savage Blow or something.

[Ae†her]

48 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Cymbeline, first and foremost.  Sanaki's skills are give attack and give more attack, and that's just lame.  I'd do something like Atk boost on top of something else (maybe Heavy Blade?).

Binding Blade needs a better effect, full stop.  The defense on attack doesn't cut it with Roy's stats.

Parthia should have a permanent Res boost.  Its other function was to shoot wyverns out of the sky, but it already does that well enough!

Would really like each Falchion to evolve a little differently!  Lucina gets Parallel Falchion, Chrom gets Exalted Falchion, Alm gets something unique, and Marth gets a choice.

Brynhilder needs. . .something more.  Maybe give it an innate Savage Blow or something.

Maybe Cymbeline could also be effective against Laguz-type units in the future. Along with a greater and more effective Hone Atk of course.

How about just giving the BB the full Def/Res+5 when under attack? And for a Special Effect bonus it could be effective against dragons.

Parthia could get Res+7 (that's greater than even Warding Stance 3) when under attack along with stat boosts, and perhaps a effect that lets him cancel the buffs of mages.

I was thinking for Brynhilr, Leo gets a insane increased Gravity range of 2. It would make him a great utility character. Savage Blow instead might also be nice.

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Logos said:

Parthia could get Res+7 (that's greater than even Warding Stance 3) when under attack along with stat boosts, and perhaps a effect that lets him cancel the buffs of mages.

Now that I think of it, Res +5 (same as Audhulma) and Phantom Res 3 would be a cool combination (especially if that's the base refine effect and not the unique refine), giving neutral Jeorge 37 Res to run Ploy skills.

[Ae†her]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Now that I think of it, Res +5 (same as Audhulma) and Phantom Res 3 would be a cool combination (especially if that's the base refine effect and not the unique refine), giving neutral Jeorge 37 Res to run Ploy skills.

40 if running Fury 3, yeah that sounds perfect for a Spd Ploy Jeorge. Although I'm not sure if they would give him Res+5 boost in addition to a whole Phantom Res 3 in the base refine effect. I think it's fair though.

[Hilda]

On 5.1.2018 at 6:09 PM, The Lord Of Gems said:

Brynhildr - Inflicts Gravity Status On Target And Other Enemies Within Two Spaces. If Unit Receives Consecutive Attacks From Tomes Or Staves, Damage From Second Attack Onward Is Reduced By 50%.

 

Definitly not 2 spaces Gravity. He is a Cavalier unit, and its allready on some maps difficult to outrun Horse emblem units. Definitly NOT 2 spaces, 1 space maybe like the Healer staff, but thats again stepping on the toes of healers. i would just get rid of the effect altogether and give him the unique skill "Allows Unit to Ride through Forests", which makes him the only Cavalier unit to be able to run through forests and give him a real niche!