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Which Fe, in your opinion, has the best plot/Writing and why?


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Radiant Dawn, as it was the only one to keep me interested in the plot.

Awakening's was fine, albeit forgettable, and Path of Radiance's story (which everyone raves about for some reason) is just a dull, boring, bishonen coming-of-age story, with "plot twists" that I managed to predict happening long before they actually happened.

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3 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I mean, I personally really like Lyon.  He's sympathetic, his actions are understandable while still being wrong, and his relationship with the protagonists was pretty well done imo.  His dad is more or less an extension of him and his story, Vigarde's Monica-fied after all.  So maybe you found it unsatisfactory, but Lyon got a lot more emotion out of me than pretty much every other villain in the franchise so.

Orson was a well done traitor villain, again, his actions are understandable but still wrong, and "Darling, Darling, Darling" is among the creepiest stuff in FE.

Everyone else aren't anything too special, but they still play their archetypes above average.

Except Riev.  Screw Riev.

The issue is, the same writing that's SUPPOSED to portray Lyon in a sympathetic light only ends up accomplishing the exact opposite - painting him as an utter imbecile. That's what I call "falling flat on your ass". Orson? I'm not convinced when he flips much too quickly to the point that he might as well have been an enemy from the beginning. Just another instance of digging themselves a ditch, that one. If I wanted an impactful traitor, I'd do well to look elsewhere. I will say, however, Glen and Duessel were well done. Not that that absolves IS of their failures with the other villains of SS, because it doesn't even come close. 

2 hours ago, Ace Pelleas said:

  FE8 was really good, despite the earlygame being tiresome, up until chapter 5X, as I've played only Ephraim route I really enjoyed it, depite people saying that Eirika's route is better on that regard. Vigarde was good, Lyon too. Selena was interesting, who the heck is Caellach and I already talked about Riev. But Orson and Valter stole the show, for reasons that were probably already stated.

Pardon me, but exactly what was so good about Orson??? Because I honestly fail to see it when he betrays you after one chapter...

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9 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The issue is, the same writing that's SUPPOSED to portray Lyon in a sympathetic light only ends up accomplishing the exact opposite - painting him as an utter imbecile.

I didn't really see him as an imbecile, please explain exactly what about Lyon's writing gave you that impression.  Lyon's actions were wrong, yes.  He's the villain.  But the emotions that drove him to that point are sympathetic and understandable.  There's no "I'm going to be evil just because I can" like with say, Validar.  

9 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Orson? I'm not convinced when he flips much too quickly to the point that he might as well have been an enemy from the beginning.

I personally found the amount of time he had enough, but I already said that it's fair enough if you don't.

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On 06/01/2018 at 2:48 AM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Pardon me, but exactly what was so good about Orson??? Because I honestly fail to see it when he betrays you after one chapter...

Well, it was unexpected. Like, even if he had the least sreentime among the 3 cavaliers. We were backstabed by the strongest unit of our team. Then we see a man who was taken by the death of his wife and couldn't even think rationaly.

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18 minutes ago, Ace Pelleas said:

Well, it was unexpected. Like, even if he had the least sreentime among the 3 cavaliers. We were backstabed by the strongest unit of our team. Then we see a man who was taken by the death of his wife and couldn't even think rationaly.

I fail to see how it was "unexpected" when it was all but spelled out that someone among Ephraim's group was going to betray them:

Tirado:
“Do not worry. At Prince Ephraim’s side is… a friend, shall we say. When the time is right, our friend will move on our behalf…”

Not helping Orson's case is the fact that the writing just isn't there to make Orson convincing, sympathetic, or tragic - and the quick betrayal further ensures that.

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On 06/01/2018 at 2:18 AM, NinjaMonkey said:

Radiant Dawn, as it was the only one to keep me interested in the plot.

Awakening's was fine, albeit forgettable, and Path of Radiance's story (which everyone raves about for some reason) is just a dull, boring, bishonen coming-of-age story, with "plot twists" that I managed to predict happening long before they actually happened.

Radiant Dawn was really good tbh.

PoR, was kinda in the middle road, some were predictable, but others like. Not defeating BK with Ike or the Torture Chamber part were pretty surprising. It wasn't the best overall plot, far from it, however the attention to details the developers had made it more memorable and perhaps impacful. 

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On 1/8/2018 at 2:19 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I fail to see how it was "unexpected" when it was all but spelled out that someone among Ephraim's group was going to betray them:

Tirado:
“Do not worry. At Prince Ephraim’s side is… a friend, shall we say. When the time is right, our friend will move on our behalf…”

Not helping Orson's case is the fact that the writing just isn't there to make Orson convincing, sympathetic, or tragic - and the quick betrayal further ensures that.

I think you're looking at it wrong in a way. The tragedy behind his character is how grief changed him and the writing does a fantastic job of showing this. When he betrayed the group we didn't feel anything yet because of how quick it was and there's only some emotion behind his motivation. The juicy part comes up during Chapter 16 starting with the state of the castle and Orson's motivation. Under a spoiler because I wrote a whole paragraph.

Spoiler

“What has happened to our home? What has happened to Castle Renais? How did it come to be so ruined? So desolated?” The state in which the castle is in is very important to Orson's character because it's a visual representation of what he became. "Region after region is revolting, and Orson’s reign is already crumbling. Left alone, it may very well collapse under the weight of its own neglect." This is yet another fantastic line. Orson is neglecting his health(doesn't eat or sea anyone) which is causing his slow demise. He doesn't care about anything anymore because there's no meaning in life without his wife. “Do you still recognize me, Orson, or are you entirely lost to this world?" The man has completely lost it as he can't even remember the man who "resurrected" his wife. It's sad when the truth about Monica is revealed because it shows what truly sent Orson over the edge. It wasn't the death of his wife but rather the hope that was crushed because of the reality that his wife is truly gone and nothing will change that. In his own madness and as a way to "cope" there was no difference between a corpse and his wife. The whole thing is painfully realistic when you realize just how many people loose themselves to their own grief and what they do to themselves as a result. 

Anyways onto the main topic. I don't have a favorite because quite a few do some things nicely while they also fall flat on others. The characters in Sacred stones are some of my favorites including a good chunk of the villains but it's world building is bare bones when compared to others in the series. Shadow Dragon is very simple yet effective but this can be a huge turn off to people since it's straight to the point and lots of characters leave a lot up to imagination. It's been a while sinced I played fe4/5 so I can't really comment on them. Tellius without a doubt has the best world building but the plot was a mess towards the end of Radiant Dawn. I guess PoR strikes a nice balance between everything.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/1/2018 at 1:16 AM, Ae†her said:

Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn and Genealogy are probably the best for me, but they're good for different things.

Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn are good for having very colorful characters, great conversations, impactful and dramatic moments (a lot of good Sanaki moments are examples). Both stories are really fleshed out with a very realistic and diverse world, and the Laguz aspect of the world makes it magical and very complex. While it's still typical FE/VG story (fight big dragon/god boss at the end) has the best political drama out of most of the other stories.

Genealogy of the Holy War is good in my opinion because of the plot design of the first half, and some elements in the both halves that make the story dark and serious. The the thing that I like about the first half of the story is the way Sigurd is forced to do a bunch of military actions that don't always turn out to be the right thing because Sigurd is not a perfect commander. He may have the FE Main Lord perfect personality, but he's not gripped on to by the plot so that he never messes up. In the end the actions Sigurd took backfired on him more than once, and he was easily betrayed and killed at the end. This is the only FE story with this type of plot, and I think the first half of Genealogy could be a great well developed story for a remake, only if they make the characters more fleshed out and give Sigurd's personality a lot more power. The ending might be sad, but if the story moves around from both antagonist and protagonist sides like it did in the original, the story can be designed to give clues to Sigurd's death, and leave as a great lesson from a tragic and shocking ending ( at least to FE players who know nothing about the original story).  The other great aspect about Genealogy's story is that it's darker and more mature. Just look at Sigurd's death, the Child Hunts, and the way princes and princesses must tragically fall during times of conflict. Nothing like what we have nowadays in FE stories. (Elise jumping in the way of an attack thinking that's the best moment to stop an starting battle, and an entire fucking war. lool)

This ? FE4, 9 and 10 are also the best for me, but i have to disagree in one thing: i believe that both halves of FE4 are awesome and that they complement each other very well. One is the deconstruction of the typical FE plot, and the other is a well written reconstruction. I understand, though, that for a lot of people, and specially FE "veterans", the first half can be a lot more refreshing and enjoyable.

 

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36 minutes ago, Arkanya said:

This ? FE4, 9 and 10 are also the best for me, but i have to disagree in one thing: i believe that both halves of FE4 are awesome and that they complement each other very well. One is the deconstruction of the typical FE plot, and the other is a well written reconstruction. I understand, though, that for a lot of people, and specially FE "veterans", the first half can be a lot more refreshing and enjoyable.

 

Well I have nothing against the Second Half except for the way it sort of distracts from the lessons that are presented in the first half. It sort of adds that feeling that Sigurd and his men had to die so that Seliph can be be the new hero rather than it be a lesson about war and politics.

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On 1/11/2018 at 10:43 PM, ChickenBits said:

 

  Hide contents

“What has happened to our home? What has happened to Castle Renais? How did it come to be so ruined? So desolated?” The state in which the castle is in is very important to Orson's character because it's a visual representation of what he became. "Region after region is revolting, and Orson’s reign is already crumbling. Left alone, it may very well collapse under the weight of its own neglect." This is yet another fantastic line. Orson is neglecting his health(doesn't eat or sea anyone) which is causing his slow demise. He doesn't care about anything anymore because there's no meaning in life without his wife. “Do you still recognize me, Orson, or are you entirely lost to this world?" The man has completely lost it as he can't even remember the man who "resurrected" his wife. It's sad when the truth about Monica is revealed because it shows what truly sent Orson over the edge. It wasn't the death of his wife but rather the hope that was crushed because of the reality that his wife is truly gone and nothing will change that. In his own madness and as a way to "cope" there was no difference between a corpse and his wife. The whole thing is painfully realistic when you realize just how many people loose themselves to their own grief and what they do to themselves as a result. 

 

The problem with this, that I think a lot of people who don't like SS' writing(Myself included) is how little build up and attention this kind of stuff gets. The only thing that really has a full set-up and a payoff in SS is Lyon's story. Everything outside of that is half-baked and slapdash.
 

Spoiler

Orson's betrayal is set up before you even really get to see him, and you get a total of one chapter with him before he goes turncoat. There's no time for it to set in that Orson might be a decent dude or that there might be more to him. You just get him pretending to be an honorable knight, then he turns.

The next time you see him, all of the quotes you posted happen. There's absolutely no build up to this. In the context of the story, it goes from "Orson betrayed us!" to "Orson's Renais is falling apart, just like he is". Does that not seem a bit underdeveloped to you? This character who was barely given any attention is now given all of this emotional attention out of seemingly nowhere, and we're supposed to take the quotes you said seriously. I just can't do it.

And one thing that has always bothered me is that once Orson betrays Ephraim and gets zombie Monica, he immediately becomes unhinged and cannot function. He's wasting away and dying because he's not taking care of himself by the time Ephraim reunites with him. The game doesn't really go into detail about how Orson managed to even survive on when Monica died the FIRST time(We know he was devastated, but the game doesn't go far into it), and the way he acts prior to the betrayal doesn't line up with the characterization he's given afterward. He knows what his reward will be once he betrays Ephraim and takes Renais, and he already is fully on board with Tirado's plans. Why is he able to compose himself for long enough to even betray Ephraim? The game goes out of its way that not only was Orson broken emotionally by the Monica situation, he was mentally broken by it. The shift from "Honorable knight facade" to "Cannot keep himself together for long enough to even eat or take care of his castle" is immediate.

 

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On January 6, 2018 at 7:59 AM, Glaceon Mage said:

I didn't really see him as an imbecile, please explain exactly what about Lyon's writing gave you that impression.  Lyon's actions were wrong, yes.  He's the villain.  But the emotions that drove him to that point are sympathetic and understandable.  There's no "I'm going to be evil just because I can" like with say, Validar. 

The part where he was willing to tamper with the soul of the greatest enemy of mankind. And sure, he isn't evil for evil's sake, like Riev or Caellach. But regardless, I find it really hard to see Lyon as a good villain thanks to inconsistent portrayal, among other factors.

On January 11, 2018 at 10:43 PM, ChickenBits said:

I think you're looking at it wrong in a way. The tragedy behind his character is how grief changed him and the writing does a fantastic job of showing this. When he betrayed the group we didn't feel anything yet because of how quick it was and there's only some emotion behind his motivation. The juicy part comes up during Chapter 16 starting with the state of the castle and Orson's motivation. Under a spoiler because I wrote a whole paragraph.

  Reveal hidden contents

“What has happened to our home? What has happened to Castle Renais? How did it come to be so ruined? So desolated?” The state in which the castle is in is very important to Orson's character because it's a visual representation of what he became. "Region after region is revolting, and Orson’s reign is already crumbling. Left alone, it may very well collapse under the weight of its own neglect." This is yet another fantastic line. Orson is neglecting his health(doesn't eat or sea anyone) which is causing his slow demise. He doesn't care about anything anymore because there's no meaning in life without his wife. “Do you still recognize me, Orson, or are you entirely lost to this world?" The man has completely lost it as he can't even remember the man who "resurrected" his wife. It's sad when the truth about Monica is revealed because it shows what truly sent Orson over the edge. It wasn't the death of his wife but rather the hope that was crushed because of the reality that his wife is truly gone and nothing will change that. In his own madness and as a way to "cope" there was no difference between a corpse and his wife. The whole thing is painfully realistic when you realize just how many people loose themselves to their own grief and what they do to themselves as a result. 

 

The problem is that this gets no attention, no buildup. Well, that, and the fact that Orson's betrayal comes before you're given a chance to find out what kind of guy he was (which is, again, because you get only one chapter before he turns on you). And then his next appearance after his betrayal has all these quotes you posted... That looks like a sure sign of an underdeveloped character, if you ask me.

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7 hours ago, Slumber said:

The problem with this, that I think a lot of people who don't like SS' writing(Myself included) is how little build up and attention this kind of stuff gets. The only thing that really has a full set-up and a payoff in SS is Lyon's story. Everything outside of that is half-baked and slapdash.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Orson's betrayal is set up before you even really get to see him, and you get a total of one chapter with him before he goes turncoat. There's no time for it to set in that Orson might be a decent dude or that there might be more to him. You just get him pretending to be an honorable knight, then he turns.

The next time you see him, all of the quotes you posted happen. There's absolutely no build up to this. In the context of the story, it goes from "Orson betrayed us!" to "Orson's Renais is falling apart, just like he is". Does that not seem a bit underdeveloped to you? This character who was barely given any attention is now given all of this emotional attention out of seemingly nowhere, and we're supposed to take the quotes you said seriously. I just can't do it.

And one thing that has always bothered me is that once Orson betrays Ephraim and gets zombie Monica, he immediately becomes unhinged and cannot function. He's wasting away and dying because he's not taking care of himself by the time Ephraim reunites with him. The game doesn't really go into detail about how Orson managed to even survive on when Monica died the FIRST time(We know he was devastated, but the game doesn't go far into it), and the way he acts prior to the betrayal doesn't line up with the characterization he's given afterward. He knows what his reward will be once he betrays Ephraim and takes Renais, and he already is fully on board with Tirado's plans. Why is he able to compose himself for long enough to even betray Ephraim? The game goes out of its way that not only was Orson broken emotionally by the Monica situation, he was mentally broken by it. The shift from "Honorable knight facade" to "Cannot keep himself together for long enough to even eat or take care of his castle" is immediate.

 

I personally like the writing but I'm not denying any of it's faults(seriously there's so many little moments in Fe8 that could've truly shined if they set up it properly). The Fire Emblem series as a whole doesn't exactly have stellar writing. The only games to really push the writing is Tellius with it's world building. 

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12 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The part where he was willing to tamper with the soul of the greatest enemy of mankind. And sure, he isn't evil for evil's sake, like Riev or Caellach. But regardless, I find it really hard to see Lyon as a good villain thanks to inconsistent portrayal, among other factors.

He was using the sacred stone's power only at first, it wasn't until he split the stone (which I read as having largely been an accident, but I could be wrong about that) and he got possessed that bad things began to happen.

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  • 3 weeks later...

My problem with Sacred Stones' writing is that the attempt it makes at humanizing and eliciting sympathy for villains seems so... inorganic. Lyon is only vaguely sympathetic because we're repeatedly smacked over the head with flashbacks of him venting about his insecurities to his less-insecure friends who happen to be the protagonists. There isn't much at all to Lyon's character outside of this. "I like you guys, but I'm insecure, so I summoned a demon, and now I *am* the demon." Full stop.

Orson's motives for betrayal are backfilled with a fairly uninteresting "consumed by grief at loss of spouse" story, and the game is so short that there's never any time to let Orson's relationship with the rest of the cast "cook" enough so that we even care about his betrayal.

The Imperial Six, to me, are either flat chaotic-evil killbots (Caellach, Riev, Valter), blind loyaltybots until it's too late (Glen, Selena), or Duessel, who's... actually pretty cool, but who isn't a villain.

I don't mean to come off as too intense in my views on Sacred Stones' plot, but I see it praised so heavily around here while seeing an (in my view) unwarranted amount of criticism heaped on far-superior stories like FE4 and FE10, and I don't quite understand it.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Radiant Dawn's the best. The setting of Tellius really comes together well and the game features conflicts besides "well this side is obviously good and this side is obviously bad" (even though there's plenty of obviously bad, don't get me wrong). The game also features a large villain cast who are in it for very different motivations: from Ashera to Sephiran to Dheginsea to Lekain to Ludveck to Jarod, all of these people are well-characterised and have their own motivations instead of it being a chain of blind loyalty like FE often does.

#2 is either Path of Radiance (sets up a good setting and has some solid moments, but Ike's coming-of-age story is very meh and Daein is a Bog Standard Evil FE Country, now with racism) or Sacred Stones (plenty of plot structure problems and a weak supporting cast, but is very emotionally resonant IMO). I couldn't get through enough of FE4 to judge its plot.

On 2/12/2018 at 7:01 PM, eastcanman said:

I don't mean to come off as too intense in my views on Sacred Stones' plot, but I see it praised so heavily around here while seeing an (in my view) unwarranted amount of criticism heaped on far-superior stories like FE4 and FE10, and I don't quite understand it.

Well when you compare Lyon's motives, which are human and born of a relatable insecurity and grief, to the main villains of the games immediately before and after (both of whom are at worst just being evil for evil's sake, and at best have unrelatable motivations), he looks pretty darn good by comparison, and I think a lot of people key in on that. The relationships between the three key characters (Lyon and the twins) are also well-done, something the series often struggles with.

I think people focusing on not getting enough time to know Orson before his betrayal are missing the point. The betrayal isn't supposed to be a surprise (we learn of it before we even meet Orson). He'd be a thoroughly forgettable character, little better than that senator who betrays you in Chapter 7 of Awakening, except the sequence with him in Renais in Chapter 16 is just creepy. Either that works for you or it doesn't; it did for me. *shrug*

Actually in general SS does a good job with creepy villains; both Valter and Carlyle struck a chord with me as well on that front, in different ways.

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On 3/3/2018 at 10:09 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

I think people focusing on not getting enough time to know Orson before his betrayal are missing the point. The betrayal isn't supposed to be a surprise (we learn of it before we even meet Orson). He'd be a thoroughly forgettable character, little better than that senator who betrays you in Chapter 7 of Awakening, except the sequence with him in Renais in Chapter 16 is just creepy. Either that works for you or it doesn't; it did for me. *shrug*

Actually in general SS does a good job with creepy villains; both Valter and Carlyle struck a chord with me as well on that front, in different ways.

Orson and his Zombie Wife is creepy, I felt that and I like Valter too. Carlyle didn't come off as creepy, just lovesick, though I can see what you mean. But why can't Orson be both an emotional well done betrayal and a creepy man? And you know what would make Orson's creepiness even better? Showing him in his good days as a normal man, not necessarily hearing in detail of the happy days he had with his wife, but just his normal noble soul. It'd make his descent into madness a little bit more offsetting since you'd be able to compare his likable old self with the sharp contrast of his fallen self. 

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3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Orson and his Zombie Wife is creepy, I felt that and I like Valter too. Carlyle didn't come off as creepy, just lovesick, though I can see what you mean. But why can't Orson be both an emotional well done betrayal and a creepy man? And you know what would make Orson's creepiness even better? Showing him in his good days as a normal man, not necessarily hearing in detail of the happy days he had with his wife, but just his normal noble soul. It'd make his descent into madness a little bit more offsetting since you'd be able to compare his likable old self with the sharp contrast of his fallen self. 

I don't really disagree. That said, Orson is like the ~7th most important villain in a relatively short game (by Fire Emblem standards). There simply wasn't time to develop him further as a character. For what he is, I think he works fine. I'm not calling him an all-time great character, but for a supporting villain who appears in 3 chapters total, he does fine in my books.

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I think Genealogy of the Holy War is easily the best written game. Sigurd is a great main lord and he's clearly a flawed character and it makes him much more human than some of the other lords. The first time you see the ending of gen 1 it's a pretty damn shocking ending and really throws a curveball at the player in a way no other FE game before it or after it has ever done. In my opinion the ending of Gen 1 is the best ending in FE history and possibly the most powerful moment in Fire Emblem history. It isn't often that you get those real tragic and powerful moments in Fire Emblem games. Other games have tried to have powerful scenes like that but none really measure up to the ending of gen 1. The game also has a darker and more mature plot than other FE games which no other FE games except for of course Thracia 776 have done. It also has some great villains. Arvis is the best written villain in the franchise. Travant and Ishtar are also great villains. I also like that the game throws some villains at you that are just super shitty too which makes it more satisfying when you get to kill them like Hilda, Blume, and Julian.

I think Thracia 776 probably has the second best story. I like that it kept the darker elements of Genealogy and it also had some pretty good villains like Genealogy. I like the premise of the story a lot too with Leif who lost his parents raising up an army from the ground up to try to take back his homeland and liberate Thracia. I think Leaf is also a very well written lord. He's another lord who is somewhat flawed and he shows development throughout the story as well.

Path of Radiance would probably be third for me, I think the world building was very well done and the politics of the game were pretty interesting as well. The story and world feels a lot more fleshed out than most other games. It has quite a few good characters and a relatively diverse cast of characters too. Too bad Radiant Dawn couldn't live up to it. While the world building was still there the plot was a complete mess and it was just all over the place and tons of things were super forced or relied too much on just straight up plot convenience or forced plot elements put in to try to make some sense of and justify what was happening.

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I think FE7 had a decent story, simply because the story didn't get in the way of the gameplay or trip over itself. Fire Emblem is a video game, not a novel. Also, despite the story not getting too involved, it did still have a strong narrative with some decent moments withwell-made foreshadowing, especially those involving Ninian. Sure: the world building left much to be desired; it created a lot of plot holes when combined with FE6; and Nergal was bordering on evil-for-the-sake-of-evil; but does that really matter? As long as the cringe isn't as obvious as it was in Fates, I'm fine with a simple story with just enough meat on the bones to make a feast of plot elements and gameplay chapters.

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3 hours ago, The_antithesis said:

I think FE7 had a decent story, simply because the story didn't get in the way of the gameplay or trip over itself. Fire Emblem is a video game, not a novel. Also, despite the story not getting too involved, it did still have a strong narrative with some decent moments withwell-made foreshadowing, especially those involving Ninian. Sure: the world building left much to be desired; it created a lot of plot holes when combined with FE6; and Nergal was bordering on evil-for-the-sake-of-evil; but does that really matter? As long as the cringe isn't as obvious as it was in Fates, I'm fine with a simple story with just enough meat on the bones to make a feast of plot elements and gameplay chapters.

That tends to be my view on the matter. Blazing sword is just a nice, competent story that follows a known formula and doesn't screw up as a result. The smaller scales making it stand out also helps. 

Though I'd say the world building in 7 is actually one of the better ones with Lycia, Bern and Sacea all being pretty distinct from each other. 

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On 3/3/2018 at 8:09 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Radiant Dawn's the best. The setting of Tellius really comes together well and the game features conflicts besides "well this side is obviously good and this side is obviously bad" (even though there's plenty of obviously bad, don't get me wrong). The game also features a large villain cast who are in it for very different motivations: from Ashera to Sephiran to Dheginsea to Lekain to Ludveck to Jarod, all of these people are well-characterised and have their own motivations instead of it being a chain of blind loyalty like FE often does.

#2 is either Path of Radiance (sets up a good setting and has some solid moments, but Ike's coming-of-age story is very meh and Daein is a Bog Standard Evil FE Country, now with racism) or Sacred Stones (plenty of plot structure problems and a weak supporting cast, but is very emotionally resonant IMO). I couldn't get through enough of FE4 to judge its plot.

Well when you compare Lyon's motives, which are human and born of a relatable insecurity and grief, to the main villains of the games immediately before and after (both of whom are at worst just being evil for evil's sake, and at best have unrelatable motivations), he looks pretty darn good by comparison, and I think a lot of people key in on that. The relationships between the three key characters (Lyon and the twins) are also well-done, something the series often struggles with.

I think people focusing on not getting enough time to know Orson before his betrayal are missing the point. The betrayal isn't supposed to be a surprise (we learn of it before we even meet Orson). He'd be a thoroughly forgettable character, little better than that senator who betrays you in Chapter 7 of Awakening, except the sequence with him in Renais in Chapter 16 is just creepy. Either that works for you or it doesn't; it did for me. *shrug*

Actually in general SS does a good job with creepy villains; both Valter and Carlyle struck a chord with me as well on that front, in different ways.

I disagree on Sacred Stones - aside from the weak plot and writing, the emotional resonance part also felt rather weak, all because the main characters ended up being rather lame. It doesn't help that Lyon's overly dependent on flashbacks because in the grand scheme of things, he's rather irrelevant. Nor does the condensed nature of the game and the split routes. Far as I'm concerned, it was a cringeworthy story that tripped over itself more than Sumia does. As for Valter, he felt more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain than anything else - AKA, completely forgettable.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia
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