Total War: Three Kingdoms

[Jedi]

Good old Total War, but I wasn't expecting a Three Kingdoms theme! As its my favorite historical (and nonfiction time thanks to the Novels) to study, and the basis of series such as RoTK and Dynasty Warriors, which got me into it in the first place, i'm totally interested despite not having played a Total War game in ages.

[Tryhard]

my boy

my hopes are that they expand a little outside of china to korea and perhaps even the steppes, but it depends on the type of scale they are going for. Shogun 2 still felt large despite centering solely on Japan.

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm very glad Total war is finally venturing to China though I must admit I was rooting for other Chinese era's over this one.

I wonder how they will divide the factions. I can spot dong Zhou but if the Dong get to be their own factions then a kingdom like Shu will start very far away from the heartland of their future empire. 

[Dandy Druid]

Seems cool. Can't wait to see some gameplay.

[Tryhard]

17 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I wonder how they will divide the factions. I can spot dong Zhou but if the Dong get to be their own factions then a kingdom like Shu will start very far away from the heartland of their future empire. 

It's a little trickier than how factions are set up in other Total War games, yeah. Maybe they'll take a leaf out of Crusader Kings II book and allow 'kingdoms' to be formed?

[Jedi]

8 hours ago, Tryhard said:

It's a little trickier than how factions are set up in other Total War games, yeah. Maybe they'll take a leaf out of Crusader Kings II book and allow 'kingdoms' to be formed?

That'd probably work, the RoTK games allow you to do that as well and it'd be welcome here I think.

[Magical CC]

First of all, I can already tell the game gonna go with the novel route. Everything in this trailers only happened in the novel. For example, the three brothers didnt swear in the peach garden. The three brothers didnt fight Lu Bu at Hu Lao gate. Zhang Phi was not a butcher but a rich and famous poet and artist who love to draw beautiful ladies! And hisotrical bluffs probably known that the Guan Dao only existed some hundred year later. All of the records about Guan Yu said that he "thrusted" a hole on enemy body, not "slash them into two parts".

But hey, it's a GAME. And the novel is more famous so who care, right? Sadly, even the novel route is very shaky because a lot of details are off even if you compared the trailer to what written in the novel.

First of all, as you guys probably known, Lu Bu is a known rider and the fight against three brothers happened on horse. I dont know why they are not in the trailer. By the time the three brothers fought against Lu Bu at the Hu Lao gate, they were just generals under Gongsun. The trailer gave the vibe that the brothers have already been someone important. Also, I dont know who the tactician is but he cant be Zhuge Liang. He wont meet them for a while yet. In fact, Zhuge Liang is only 9 years old by the time the three brothers were supposed to fight Lu Bu! And by that time, his other lesser known tacticians also hadnt jointed him yet. Lastly, Lu Bu is always portrayed as a handsome man. I wont considered the guy in the trailer to be "handsome".

 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

7 hours ago, Magical CC said:

First of all, I can already tell the game gonna go with the novel route. Everything in this trailers only happened in the novel. For example, the three brothers didnt swear in the peach garden. The three brothers didnt fight Lu Bu at Hu Lao gate. Zhang Phi was not a butcher but a rich and famous poet and artist who love to draw beautiful ladies! And hisotrical bluffs probably known that the Guan Dao only existed some hundred year later. All of the records about Guan Yu said that he "thrusted" a hole on enemy body, not "slash them into two parts".

But hey, it's a GAME. And the novel is more famous so who care, right? Sadly, even the novel route is very shaky because a lot of details are off even if you compared the trailer to what written in the novel.

First of all, as you guys probably known, Lu Bu is a known rider and the fight against three brothers happened on horse. I dont know why they are not in the trailer. By the time the three brothers fought against Lu Bu at the Hu Lao gate, they were just generals under Gongsun. The trailer gave the vibe that the brothers have already been someone important. Also, I dont know who the tactician is but he cant be Zhuge Liang. He wont meet them for a while yet. In fact, Zhuge Liang is only 9 years old by the time the three brothers were supposed to fight Lu Bu! And by that time, his other lesser known tacticians also hadnt jointed him yet. Lastly, Lu Bu is always portrayed as a handsome man. I wont considered the guy in the trailer to be "handsome".

 

Amongst others cool knowledge like Hu Lao Gate doesnt exists during 3k era, the finctional battle of Hu lao gate is probably based of Battle of Dagu Pass, Lu Bu is based off real life Xu Rong, and basically everything the three brothers is known to do at the time of Dong Zhuo and YTR is likely done by Sun Jian 

 

I really wondered if the writer of RoTK novel is a closet Sun Jian fanboy who decided to write Liu Bei fanfiction or its just Sun Jian being Sun Jian forced them to write his tale if they want to make heroic historical fanfic

 

[Etrurian emperor]

28 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Amongst others cool knowledge like Hu Lao Gate doesnt exists during 3k era, the finctional battle of Hu lao gate is probably based of Battle of Dagu Pass, Lu Bu is based off real life Xu Rong, and basically everything the three brothers is known to do at the time of Dong Zhuo and YTR is likely done by Sun Jian 

 

I really wondered if the writer of RoTK novel is a closet Sun Jian fanboy who decided to write Liu Bei fanfiction or its just Sun Jian being Sun Jian forced them to write his tale if they want to make heroic historical fanfic

 

I never could get past the archaic writing of the book but I did read the end note written by some historian. 

And apparently the very positive portrayal of Shu and Wu was because at the time of writing Northern China was controlled by barbarians. Northern China is the heartland of ancient China so the message was that you didn't need to control the heartland to be the legitimate ruler of China and Liu Bei was portrayed as a good example of that.

The bigger focus on Liu Bei and him stealing achievements from others was probably because he had at least some ties to the Han imperial house which Chinese people looked fondly upon after not being united for so long. 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

20 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I never could get past the archaic writing of the book but I did read the end note written by some historian. 

And apparently the very positive portrayal of Shu and Wu was because at the time of writing Northern China was controlled by barbarians. Northern China is the heartland of ancient China so the message was that you didn't need to control the heartland to be the legitimate ruler of China and Liu Bei was portrayed as a good example of that.

The bigger focus on Liu Bei and him stealing achievements from others was probably because he had at least some ties to the Han imperial house which Chinese people looked fondly upon after not being united for so long. 

Yeah i actually just saw the "context" behind why ROTK is probably like that just last night, the gist is basically the political and geographical situation of the time was simmilar to that of Shu, the folks relate on that, and a guy who is supposedly a historian decided to create historical fanfiction of the era with Shu as the "hero",

 

What i wondered was actually why out of every people that got their achievement stolen, Liu Bei is not only taking from, but even his personality is arguably modeled after Sun Jian which stands out to me since Sun Jian is quite unnoticable in the bigger picture. Although i guess in fairness Xu Rong is also unimportant and he's essentially the real Lu Bu

Edited January 12, 2018 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Magical CC]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I never could get past the archaic writing of the book but I did read the end note written by some historian. 

And apparently the very positive portrayal of Shu and Wu was because at the time of writing Northern China was controlled by barbarians. Northern China is the heartland of ancient China so the message was that you didn't need to control the heartland to be the legitimate ruler of China and Liu Bei was portrayed as a good example of that.

The bigger focus on Liu Bei and him stealing achievements from others was probably because he had at least some ties to the Han imperial house which Chinese people looked fondly upon after not being united for so long. 

Stealing? Hah! It was his deeds that were stolen from him and gave to Zhuge Liang.

[qwernst]

So will the soundtrack be Heavy Metal mixed with Chinese instruments?

[Sentacotus]

Awesome I've always been a fan of the total war series and this looks pretty cool.  Not sure where else there is to go after this though.  

[Tryhard]

So there hasn't really been any news right now (they actually have another Total War game coming out soon before Three Kingdoms called Thrones of Britannia), but I've been thinking about how they're going to do the factions.

If they're starting in CE190, then Liu Bei and Cao Cao are pretty minimal with what they "control" immediately, and Liu Bei hasn't even begun his "land movement/loss" yet, like Etrurian emperor said earlier. Since the coalition against Dong Zhuo is around this point, and Dong Zhuo if a singular "faction" would start out with the most land, region, it may be interesting if this was an initial event, or if Liu Bei started in a situation that was more or less unwinnable and would flee as a "horde" type without a city, like from some previous games.

(thanks to ROTK)

alternatively:

(in CE190's)

 

The other thing is that I imagine there will be a focus on 'heroes/leaders' so to speak in this game, given the high profile nature of a lot of the generals and so forth during this period of history, so I'm going to guess that they are going to use the system from Warhammer Total War in which while there is factions, there is also different "main characters" you can play as. To give an example, while you're playing Dwarves in Warhammer Total War, you could pick between three different leaders, and there is also a subfaction with a different starting position. I think it will be structured in the same way, Liu Bei, Zhang Fei, Guan Yu, for example - even then, it will hard to differentiate them into specific 'factions', so to speak.

Worth noting is that in that Thrones of Britannia game focusing on the Viking invasion, there will apparently be the ability to create kingdoms through quest chains (Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Danelaw, England, etc) like I mentioned earlier - so it may very well something that carries over here.

For anyone interested, an image of that games map was released, obviously just focusing on Great Britain and Ireland, with the playable factions highlighted.

https://i.redd.it/h5raqx3v6md01.jpg

Edited February 3, 2018 by Tryhard

[Jedi]

On 1/14/2018 at 8:28 PM, qwernst said:

So will the soundtrack be Heavy Metal mixed with Chinese instruments?

Thats only the Warriors games. RoTK or anything else related to it usually use more marching tunes 

[Slumber]

Hm... I haven't played Total War in a long-ass time. And Ancient Chinese history is fascinating, obviously picking the really good bit here with the Three Kingdoms. 

I may have to pick this one up. 

[Jedi]

Very late bump but we finally have more stuff 

 

[JimmyBeans]

Looks great, I'll have to decide to whether get this or more dlc for tW: Warhammer 2 (yep, thats the world we live in right now)

[ChiefStrudel]

I regret the Mandarin classes I took in highschool and college:

1. Because I didn't retain any of it.

2. Because I still know  all my pronunciation, and listening to their butchering of names is killing me.

Game looks promising though. Afraid to see their DLC policy though.

Edited June 9, 2018 by ChiefStrudel

[MacLovin]

i just want to watch Lu Bu.

 

game looks fun. I might get it if I have the time for a timesink tho.

[Jedi]

13 hours ago, Czarpy said:

i just want to watch Lu Bu.

 

game looks fun. I might get it if I have the time for a timesink tho.

I'll be one of those idiots who either tries to play as Lu Bu or tries to take his gear.

[Tryhard]

I realise I just getting around to this now even though there's been a bit new information in the last weeks.

Even if you don't like Angry Joe, it was quite informative.

One of the more interesting things to me that unlike other Total War games, you're choosing a character instead of a faction. I and others theorised this may be the case.

From what was also said, there's five character types though they only specified four here I believe - Vanguard (Lu Bu), Guardian (Yue Jin), Commander (Cao Cao), Strategist (Zhuge Liang).  It looks like the last is Champion like Xiahou Dun and Xu Chu material released below. They seem to have different abilities kind of like Warhammer Total War.

Enemy Generals can be recruited in some way. They also said that there would less emphasis on cultural variety as opposed to characters, which is to be expected in the same vein as Shogun 2. There is unique horses (Red Hare of course), weapons, items you can take and equip like Warhammer Total War generals.

Probably my biggest hope for something that probably wouldn't happen is that because of the above, that we may be able to create a custom general/character and use them with a generic model, like a custom ahistorical feature, but this would be something pretty much outside of the normal scope of a Total War game.

One of the things they've mentioned here is the following quote (as well as other things regarding the historical and romantised basis for the game)
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/three-kingdoms-romanticised-history

"It is, but we want to launch a game that’s both historically accurate and culturally authentic. Total War: THREE KINGDOMS will be based on the romanticised history by default, but there’ll also be a Classic Mode option before you start a campaign that makes the experience closer in execution to past Total War historical titles."

How does Classic Mode differ?

"A big difference is how these iconic heroes behave on the battlefield. By default, we adhere to the romanticised view: these characters can hold their own against hundreds of rank-and-file warriors. They’ll appear as single character units and fight like the heroes from Luo Guanzhong’s epic. In Classic Mode, they’ll appear in battle the way you might expect a classic Total War general to do: they’re only human, and will march into battle at the centre of a bodyguard unit.

In short: by default, characters in Total War: THREE KINGDOMS take centre stage in battle, helping to turn the tide with their flamboyant Wushu martial arts or strategic prowess. But Classic Mode focuses more on historical troop manoeuvres, where victory is defined by superior army composition and battle tactics."

elsewhere:

The default game mode will see heroes as mythical figures capable of tearing up hundreds of enemy soldiers on their lonesome. Classic mode will give the generals some bodyguards to depict them in a more realistic manner. They won't be sweeping dozens of units aside with a single swipe, but they'll be just as efficient in practice. 

Besides character appearance, Mann shed some more light on some more differences between the two modes. "Things like random events, certain characters, certain historical events won't be occurring within the [classic] mode because they're more fictional and part of the actual Romance text."

 

It's pretty ambitious since other Total Wars don't really have a game option that drastically changes gameplay aside from difficulty.

There was some potential screenshots of what the campaign map looks like, although these haven't been confirmed officially:

 

It's delayed to Spring 2019 if people were unaware. Considering Sega's inclination to rush these games at times, that's probably a good thing.

(of course, the shit places I usually go to get this information like TWCenter are flipping out over "looks fantasy, I WANT MUH HISTORICAL" that makes me hate this series fanbase as usual)

[Jedi]

On 7/16/2018 at 7:20 PM, Edgelord said:

I realise I just getting around to this now even though there's been a bit new information in the last weeks.

Even if you don't like Angry Joe, it was quite informative.

One of the more interesting things to me that unlike other Total War games, you're choosing a character instead of a faction. I and others theorised this may be the case.

From what was also said, there's five character types though they only specified four here I believe - Vanguard (Lu Bu), Guardian (Yue Jin), Commander (Cao Cao), Strategist (Zhuge Liang).  It looks like the last is Champion like Xiahou Dun and Xu Chu material released below. They seem to have different abilities kind of like Warhammer Total War.

Enemy Generals can be recruited in some way. They also said that there would less emphasis on cultural variety as opposed to characters, which is to be expected in the same vein as Shogun 2. There is unique horses (Red Hare of course), weapons, items you can take and equip like Warhammer Total War generals.

Probably my biggest hope for something that probably wouldn't happen is that because of the above, that we may be able to create a custom general/character and use them with a generic model, like a custom ahistorical feature, but this would be something pretty much outside of the normal scope of a Total War game.

One of the things they've mentioned here is the following quote (as well as other things regarding the historical and romantised basis for the game)
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/three-kingdoms-romanticised-history

"It is, but we want to launch a game that’s both historically accurate and culturally authentic. Total War: THREE KINGDOMS will be based on the romanticised history by default, but there’ll also be a Classic Mode option before you start a campaign that makes the experience closer in execution to past Total War historical titles."

How does Classic Mode differ?

"A big difference is how these iconic heroes behave on the battlefield. By default, we adhere to the romanticised view: these characters can hold their own against hundreds of rank-and-file warriors. They’ll appear as single character units and fight like the heroes from Luo Guanzhong’s epic. In Classic Mode, they’ll appear in battle the way you might expect a classic Total War general to do: they’re only human, and will march into battle at the centre of a bodyguard unit.

In short: by default, characters in Total War: THREE KINGDOMS take centre stage in battle, helping to turn the tide with their flamboyant Wushu martial arts or strategic prowess. But Classic Mode focuses more on historical troop manoeuvres, where victory is defined by superior army composition and battle tactics."

elsewhere:

The default game mode will see heroes as mythical figures capable of tearing up hundreds of enemy soldiers on their lonesome. Classic mode will give the generals some bodyguards to depict them in a more realistic manner. They won't be sweeping dozens of units aside with a single swipe, but they'll be just as efficient in practice. 

Besides character appearance, Mann shed some more light on some more differences between the two modes. "Things like random events, certain characters, certain historical events won't be occurring within the [classic] mode because they're more fictional and part of the actual Romance text."

 

It's pretty ambitious since other Total Wars don't really have a game option that drastically changes gameplay aside from difficulty.

There was some potential screenshots of what the campaign map looks like, although these haven't been confirmed officially:

 

It's delayed to Spring 2019 if people were unaware. Considering Sega's inclination to rush these games at times, that's probably a good thing.

(of course, the shit places I usually go to get this information like TWCenter are flipping out over "looks fantasy, I WANT MUH HISTORICAL" that makes me hate this series fanbase as usual)

Everything here looks spectacular, I love that we can have it be cheesy and over the top or more classic total war.

[Tryhard]

6 hours ago, Jedi said:

Everything here looks spectacular, I love that we can have it be cheesy and over the top or more classic total war.

I like the option regardless of how good it turns out being, but even though Creative Assembly do talk about that historical accuracy is important throughout the Total War series they never really ever placed emphasis on that. Because a game like that stops being historical accurate after turn 1 and CA have had many anachronisms or just flat out false things in their games it makes me wonder why they bother coming out and saying that anymore - stuff like Roman Assassin squads and a hidden Amazonian village that is likely to have never existed even since Rome 1. Not that it ever bothered me.

So apparently there is 11 "factions" at launch from what I've heard (though I wouldn't not expect multiple future DLC campaigns that changes the start date like Shogun 2) Considering the start date is 190CE and they've already revealed Cao Cao, Liu Bei and Sun Jian (fairly obvious there), I'm going to suggest the rest are: Dong Zhuo, Liu Biao, Yuan Shao, Yuan Shu, Ma Teng, Gongsun Zan, Shi Xie/Liu Yan (southernwestern faction), Gongsun Du/Liu Yao? Lu Bu may or may not be his own thing, and that's also assuming no "external" factions are playable. I think that's a pretty good spread over the map and pretty much covers the "main" players around that timeframe IMO.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Edgelord

[Jedi]

2 hours ago, Edgelord said:

I like the option regardless of how good it turns out being, but even though Creative Assembly do talk about that historical accuracy is important throughout the Total War series they never really ever placed emphasis on that. Because a game like that stops being historical accurate after turn 1 and CA have had many anachronisms or just flat out false things in their games it makes me wonder why they bother coming out and saying that anymore - stuff like Roman Assassin squads and a hidden Amazonian village that is likely to have never existed even since Rome 1. Not that it ever bothered me.

So apparently there is 11 "factions" at launch from what I've heard (though I wouldn't not expect multiple future DLC campaigns that changes the start date like Shogun 2) Considering the start date is 190CE and they've already revealed Cao Cao, Liu Bei and Sun Jian (fairly obvious there), I'm going to suggest the rest are: Dong Zhuo, Liu Biao, Yuan Shao, Yuan Shu, Ma Teng, Gongsun Zan, Shi Xie/Liu Yan (southernwestern faction), Gongsun Du/Liu Yao? Lu Bu may or may not be his own thing, and that's also assuming no "external" factions are playable. I think that's a pretty good spread over the map and pretty much covers the "main" players around that timeframe IMO.

Pretty much works out with just those, you're right. People like Kong Rong just got absorbed by the regional lords shortly after Dong Zhuo anyways.