Ronnie Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Something I love in a video game is when you get to battle against the player character from the previous game in the series. In the Johto Pokémon games, you face off against Red (player character) from the Kanto games. More recently, I'm playing Nights of Azure 2 and you get to face Arnice who was the protagonist in Nights of Azure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Thunder Force 5 vs the Thunder Force 4 ship is the best, especially due to the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 I suppose it's a cool idea. I think the reason why it's a bit rare is because you need a compelling reason for the two characters to fight. And falling back on the " critical misunderstanding" or mind control tropes are not good story telling. While a simple sparring match between two people on the same side is also not that engaging. Protagonists of video games are rarely portrayed as anything other than morally upright, sometimes perfect individuals that you'd never disagree with, so if you try too hard to write in a conflict between protagonists, you often need to sully the reputation of one or both of them. And at the end of the day, fans don't want their favorite characters to fight since they imprint themselves onto them. That's why Batman v Superman left a lot of small children in teary-eyed confusion about why the two super heroes want to kill each other when they're normally such good people. Here's some other games I can think of with this concept, but with spoilers kept to a minimum Spoiler Devil May Cry 4 - new protagonist Nero fights Dante as the game's opening tutorial, as well as at other points of the story The first game in one of the many Mega Man series has you fighting the protagonist of a different series, but that is a crucial spoiler so I won't say it. Resident Evil 6 -was heavily marketed on its returning protagonists, particularly the conflict between Chris Redfield (RE1 and RE5) versus Leon Kennedy (RE2 and RE4). RE6 just happens to not be a good game, and the two protagonists do not ever actually fight in the game, it's just a cutscene where they yell at each other with guns drawn Halo 5 - I haven't played this one, but I understand the major premise is you playing as a new guy that has to apprehend Master Chief Prototype 2 - the entire game builds up to a fight between the new guy and the previous, morally grey protagonist that started the outbreak. The Ace Attorney series occasionally pits its protagonists against each other in court. Metroid Fusion - while you still take the role of Samus, the killer stalking you throughout the game is using your previous suit and abilities, and the nature of their identity leads me to sort of count it on technicality. Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn features a world war told from multiple perspectives, including a climactic defense chapter between your new characters and the old ones from the previous game. Pikmin 3 introduces a conflict in regard to one of the protagonists of 2. It's not a literal fight but it's certainly conflict. Donkey Kong Jr - is the game where you must save Donkey Kong Sr from Mario..or Jump Man. Prevelant fanon suggests Jump Man is Mario's Father, and Donkey Kong jr is a game in which you must explictly defeat "Mario" not Jump Man. So this might not be a true example. Castlevania Symphony of the Night includes a fight with Richter Belmont, the protagonist of the previous game, Rondo of Blood. Though some mind control is involved. There are probably a lot of examples in the Castlevania series, I just haven't played many. Dark Souls 3. Yeah it's...complicated. The Shovel Knight games have bouts between its various protagonists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulWeaver Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Does playing Copen mode in Gunvolt 2 count? Gunvolt is the final boss and it's epic to play and even better to imagine - if only they'd done a movie for the series instead of that way-too-short video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer1234556 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 I noticed this trait in Der Langrisser, where Erwin fights Garret (Ledin, the protagonist of Warsong) if he chose the chaos path during the route split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Don't you end up fighting Laharl in Disgaea 2? I don't even play Disgaea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 13 hours ago, Ronnie said: Something I love in a video game is when you get to battle against the player character from the previous game in the series. In the Johto Pokémon games, you face off against Red (player character) from the Kanto games. More recently, I'm playing Nights of Azure 2 and you get to face Arnice who was the protagonist in Nights of Azure. Funny, I actually got destroyed like twice yesterday while fighting her. Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World does it, too though it's only someone pretending to be Lloyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 10 hours ago, SoulWeaver said: Does playing Copen mode in Gunvolt 2 count? Gunvolt is the final boss and it's epic to play and even better to imagine - if only they'd done a movie for the series instead of that way-too-short video. i wouldn't say so, since you fight copen as gunvolt too and it's not even the first time they fight in that game still a great boss though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, DragonFlames said: Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World does it, too Hide contents though it's only someone pretending to be Lloyd Spoiler Although, whenever you actually fight him, it's the real deal. You just encounter the impostor during cutscenes and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 I thought to mention Dawn of the New World, but there was the part where it was Decus in disguise. Other than that, I've got Castlevania: Curse of Darkness (Hector fights with Trevor Belmont - the protagonist of Castlevania 3 - on two occasions), as well as Yggdra Union (an odd example since the prequel to this game was released later than it was, but yes, the guy who leads the Bronquian army IS the same guy who was the main character in the prequel), and some other games that saw mention already (Nights of Azure 2, Radiant Dawn, Symphony of the Night, Devil May Cry 4). 16 hours ago, Ronnie said: Something I love in a video game is when you get to battle against the player character from the previous game in the series. In the Johto Pokémon games, you face off against Red (player character) from the Kanto games. More recently, I'm playing Nights of Azure 2 and you get to face Arnice who was the protagonist in Nights of Azure. Speaking of, I need to start playing that game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical CC Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Tales of Enternia let you fight Cress from Phantasia in the arena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Does Demifiend in Digital Devil Saga count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Dai said: Does Demifiend in Digital Devil Saga count? I was thinking the same thing. Technically DDS is a spinoff of mainline SMT, but it the next major traditional gameplay title (well replacing demons with a fixed cast and Mantras) after Nocturne, so I'd say it counts. Plus it has had a reputation as one of the hardest boss fights ever in JRPGs (whether it warrants it nowadays or something like an EO 6th Stratum boss has replaced it, I don't know). I think SMT: If... also featured the SMT I protag and the Law and Chaos Heroes as enemies. And then I heard SMT: IVA has DLC which lets you fight all four prior mainline MCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 13-1-2018 at 4:37 PM, Hylian Air Force said: Don't you end up fighting Laharl in Disgaea 2? I don't even play Disgaea. You can fight him in any Disgaea game after the original, usually because he's grumpy about no longer being the main character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodHoms Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Most of the instances I could think of have already been discussed. What I will say is that I think while these sorts of protagonist vs protagonist fights are really cool, I think there could be a great narrative opportunity in the concept that I don't think I've ever seen fully realized yet. I'll make an example so you can see what I'm getting at. Imagine a game where the protagonist's journey is doesn't quite work out the way they want it to, maybe the villain gets away with things constantly, the hero lose party members prematurely, perhaps the hero ultimately fails in the end or wins at a price too high. Then in a sequel a new protagonist finds the old protagonist and gets them to join the party because the old hero thinks they can do it better this time or something like that. But at some point in the story the old hero realizes that the mistakes they made in the past are happening again in the new hero's journey. Perhaps this drives the old hero to try and convince the new hero that their quest is in vain and that they should give up and when the new hero refuses the old hero attacks them in hopes of forcing the new hero to stop. Or you could have the old hero turn on the new hero by joining the enemy once they lose all hope of redeeming themselves of their past failures. I'm no award winning story writer, but I think it could make a very compelling character arc. The only issue with this is that you'd be making one video game while simultaneously planing for a sequel when you don't even know if the first game is even going to sell well or not which is usually the factor that green lights the sequel being made in the first place. Unless you swap the order and make the old protagonist's game a prequel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 13/01/2018 at 3:29 AM, Glennstavos said: Donkey Kong Jr - is the game where you must save Donkey Kong Sr from Mario..or Jump Man. Prevelant fanon suggests Jump Man is Mario's Father, and Donkey Kong jr is a game in which you must explictly defeat "Mario" not Jump Man. So this might not be a true example. Jump Man is what Mario was called before he got a name, and is considered that by everyone, so I don't know what "prevalent fanon" you are going on about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said: Jump Man is what Mario was called before he got a name, and is considered that by everyone, so I don't know what "prevalent fanon" you are going on about. Back when Game Theories started becoming all the rage it was a common topic. If Donkey Kong from Donkey Kong is now Cranky Kong, then maybe the Mario we've always had is descended from Jump Man. Buuut I'm not about to sit and try to map out some kind of Mario timeline, leave that to the dozens of other people that have tried to work out who the Jump Man is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Glennstavos said: Back when Game Theories started becoming all the rage it was a common topic. If Donkey Kong from Donkey Kong is now Cranky Kong, then maybe the Mario we've always had is descended from Jump Man. Buuut I'm not about to sit and try to map out some kind of Mario timeline, leave that to the dozens of other people that have tried to work out who the Jump Man is. Mario... timeline? Bwahahahahahahahaha! Really now? People are trying to make a timeline for a series defined by fish-plant hybrids living in comically large green pipes that send you places? And I thought it twas absurd enough to give Zelda a timeline. What next? A Kirby timeline- oh wait- I already heard people have tried to do this. Which reminds me, I must feed Kirby my trusty pet from a very... Chrono-logical world right now. If KIrby copies it, Kirby shall gain the power to consume timespace itself, and with Kirby's unlimited appetite gone shall be this pesky notion of timelines where they don't have to be! Also, Jumpman is one word I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) On January 14, 2018 at 3:11 AM, Magical CC said: Tales of Enternia let you fight Cress from Phantasia in the arena. I think this is pushing it... Tales games generally aren't connected to each other, with few exceptions (the only games that are connected are Symphonia, Dawn of the New World and Phantasia, with the latter taking place loooong after the former, Destiny and Destiny 2, and Xillia and Xillia 2). Also of note, in the games where you can fight characters from previous games, they're always pulled from farther back than the game that directly preceded them (DISCLAIMER: I haven't played Zestiria or Berseria, so there's a chance I could be wrong). Edited January 16, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soledai Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 4:03 AM, Interdimensional Observer said: And then I heard SMT: IVA has DLC which lets you fight all four prior mainline MCs. Hm? I thought the dlc had you play as them, not fight them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Soledai said: Hm? I thought the dlc had you play as them, not fight them You don't really play as them, per se. They join you in a battle at the end of the DLC similar to what the final boss in that game does: You essentially have two parties that switch from one round to the next. It's actually a really fun mechanic, I think. @Levant: Berseria is meant to be a distant prequel to Zestiria. And you actually do fight someone from Zestiria in Berseria and there is a boss fight someone in Zestiria who is a party member in Berseria. Edited January 16, 2018 by DragonFlames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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