Which game did you play first? Do you like each lord?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Played PoR first.

Micaiah is my favourite lord. She's driven and charismatic, but has a bit of sass to her. She's older and deals with adult problems more than other lords -  fighting in a war she disagrees with because of feeling responsibility to hold her country together. She faces tough choices and you can see them take their toll on her. I feel like she fades a bit in Part 4 sadly but still really good overall.

Ike is someone I have mixed feelings about. When I first played PoR I liked his manner quite a bit, though by the end of the game I was starting to sour on it as Ike just got built into this perfect paragon. Then in RD he's terrible.

[Vaximillian]

I played PoR first. I don’t like Ike at all, but I can’t say I hate him. I like Micaiah very much.

[Icelerate]

On 1/15/2018 at 5:17 PM, Glaceon Mage said:

I played RD first, it was my first FE actually.

My opinion is basically:

Micaiah is, tied with Roy, my favorite lord in the franchise.

Ike is the most hated non-avatar lord to me.  

Let's first look at their opening scenes.

Micaiah gets captured and restrained by some generic soldier with ease and needs to get saved by Sothe, the same guy who admits that Ike is on a whole other level. What a scrub!

On the other hand, Ike runs through a crowd of soldiers, saves Lucia and dispatches multiple soldiers while carrying Lucia. What a badass!

On 1/15/2018 at 5:25 PM, Florete said:

I played PoR first and I like both, but prefer Micaiah.

Even after getting some combat experience, she still can't take on Jarod and his lackeys and needs the Black Knight to save her ass. How pathetic!

The same Black Knight who will get soloed by Ike who will only suffer mild exhaustion fighting far superior enemies compared to Jarod and some generic fodder. A true powerhouse to behold!

On 1/15/2018 at 9:09 PM, Troykv said:

I played first RD, I LOVE Micaiah, my opinions about Ike vary everyday.

Micaiah gets called a bigot by her beloved Sothe, a guy who makes a living by stealing. What a villain this girl must be!

On the other hand, Ike gets called a true hero by none other than Sothe. A true hero indeed! 

On 1/29/2018 at 2:10 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Played PoR first.

Micaiah is my favourite lord. She's driven and charismatic, but has a bit of sass to her. She's older and deals with adult problems more than other lords -  fighting in a war she disagrees with because of feeling responsibility to hold her country together. She faces tough choices and you can see them take their toll on her. I feel like she fades a bit in Part 4 sadly but still really good overall.

Ike is someone I have mixed feelings about. When I first played PoR I liked his manner quite a bit, though by the end of the game I was starting to sour on it as Ike just got built into this perfect paragon. Then in RD he's terrible.

Micaiah collapses multiple times due to stress and goes through great emotional turmoil. What a weakling!

In contrast, Ike never shows any sign of physical or mental weakness. Such strength! 

9 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

I played PoR first. I don’t like Ike at all, but I can’t say I hate him. I like Micaiah very much.

Micaiah gets bullied by a mere Begnion messenger but is polite. What a pushover!

On the other hand, Ike rips the Empress of Begnion apart for bullying Elincia. What a tough guy! 

 

[Troykv]

9 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Let's first look at their opening scenes.

Micaiah gets captured and restrained by some generic soldier with ease and needs to get saved by Sothe, the same guy who admits that Ike is on a whole other level. What a scrub!

On the other hand, Ike runs through a crowd of soldiers, saves Lucia and dispatches multiple soldiers while carrying Lucia. What a badass!

Even after getting some combat experience, she still can't take on Jarod and his lackeys and needs the Black Knight to save her ass. How pathetic!

The same Black Knight who will get soloed by Ike who will only suffer mild exhaustion fighting far superior enemies compared to Jarod and some generic fodder. A true powerhouse to behold!

Micaiah gets called a bigot by her beloved Sothe, a guy who makes a living by stealing. What a villain this girl must be!

On the other hand, Ike gets called a true hero by none other than Sothe. A true hero indeed! 

Micaiah collapses multiple times due to stress and goes through great emotional turmoil. What a weakling!

In contrast, Ike never shows any sign of physical or mental weakness. Such strength! 

Micaiah gets bullied by a mere Begnion messenger but is polite. What a pushover!

On the other hand, Ike rips the Empress of Begnion apart for bullying Elincia. What a tough guy! 

 

It's a bit curious how Micaiah is treated compared with Ike in similar situations. At least the Lucia's rescue was something that Ike expected and was ready for the assault... also, Ike's it's combat ready since 2 years ago... In the other hand Micaiah only would do 1v1 versus the generic soldiers in the beginning because she lacks proper experience... I mean... even Ike gets owned because of lack of experience in PoR.

[Icelerate]

Just now, Troykv said:

It's a bit curious how Micaiah is treated compared with Ike in similar situations. At least the Lucia's rescue was something that Ike expected and was ready for the assault... also, Ike's it's combat ready since 2 years ago... In the other hand Micaiah only would do 1v1 versus the generic soldiers in the beginning because she lacks proper experience... I mean... even Ike gets owned because of lack of experience in PoR.

Hmm I've always been interested in moving lords into different situations. I don't think Ike is charismatic enough to inspire a nationwide uprising like Micaiah was. But Micaiah wouldn't be able to avenge her father or kill Ashnard. I think she'd be smart enough to not attack Daein directly and instead focus on liberating Crimea instead though. Always thought Ike was stupid to attack Daein when both him and Elincia said that they don't want to invade Daein but liberate their homeland. Makes the two of them look like fools/hypocrites. In my head canon, I imagine Lekain and Sephiran manipulated Sanaki, Ike and Elincia to do their own bidding much like Pelleas and Micaiah were. 

[Florete]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

Let's first look at their opening scenes.

Micaiah gets captured and restrained by some generic soldier with ease and needs to get saved by Sothe, the same guy who admits that Ike is on a whole other level. What a scrub!

On the other hand, Ike runs through a crowd of soldiers, saves Lucia and dispatches multiple soldiers while carrying Lucia. What a badass!

Even after getting some combat experience, she still can't take on Jarod and his lackeys and needs the Black Knight to save her ass. How pathetic!

The same Black Knight who will get soloed by Ike who will only suffer mild exhaustion fighting far superior enemies compared to Jarod and some generic fodder. A true powerhouse to behold!

Micaiah gets called a bigot by her beloved Sothe, a guy who makes a living by stealing. What a villain this girl must be!

On the other hand, Ike gets called a true hero by none other than Sothe. A true hero indeed! 

Micaiah collapses multiple times due to stress and goes through great emotional turmoil. What a weakling!

In contrast, Ike never shows any sign of physical or mental weakness. Such strength! 

Micaiah gets bullied by a mere Begnion messenger but is polite. What a pushover!

On the other hand, Ike rips the Empress of Begnion apart for bullying Elincia. What a tough guy!

I...what?

[ping]

5 hours ago, Florete said:

I...what?

I'm not entirely sure, but it does look pretty straw-manly.

[Strullemia]

I played PoR first (and RD immediately afterwards) and I like Ike. He's probably my favorite lord along with Siggy.

Micaiah I mostly feel indifferent to.

I wonder if part of the reason people who like Micaiah and play RD first also has something to do with the portrayal of Daein in RD and Micaiah's allegiance to her country. Daein wasn't exactly put in the best kind of light in PoR and some people might dislike her for siding with Daein.

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 hours ago, Florete said:

I...what?

 

5 hours ago, ping said:

I'm not entirely sure, but it does look pretty straw-manly.

Someone felt like venting some steam off at Ike and wanted to invoke a tenth of the forest to do so. Not quite what I'd consider to be ideal behavior. But I'm no mod, so I don't know nor have any power to do anything about it even it was worthy of serious reprimand, which I don't, but I'd certainly not advise them to continue going down this road.

I try not to hate on video game characters too much. Life is too short for bitterness for so shallow a thing. 

 

12 hours ago, Icelerate said:

In my head canon, I imagine Lekain and Sephiran manipulated Sanaki, Ike and Elincia to do their own bidding much like Pelleas and Micaiah were. 

You're back reading RD too much into PoR I'd say. Lekain appears once in PoR, that is it. PoR does in many ways foreshadow the comings of RD, but whether Part 1 itself was preconceived or accidental, we just don't know because the developers have never said anything about it. Until then, I'd say it was accidental.

[Icelerate]

11 hours ago, Florete said:

 

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

Someone felt like venting some steam off at Ike and wanted to invoke a tenth of the forest to do so. Not quite what I'd consider to be ideal behavior. But I'm no mod, so I don't know nor have any power to do anything about it even it was worthy of serious reprimand, which I don't, but I'd certainly not advise them to continue going down this road.

I try not to hate on video game characters too much. Life is too short for bitterness for so shallow a thing. 

 

You're back reading RD too much into PoR I'd say. Lekain appears once in PoR, that is it. PoR does in many ways foreshadow the comings of RD, but whether Part 1 itself was preconceived or accidental, we just don't know because the developers have never said anything about it. Until then, I'd say it was accidental.

Probably the wrong section to post a joke, my bad. Was thinking about posting it in the spam section.

That's why I consider it a head canon and not a fact. Though Lekain and Sephiran are too influential and have big plans so I don't think they were sitting idly by and doing nothing off screen.

5 hours ago, ping said:

I'm not entirely sure, but it does look pretty straw-manly.

It wasn't even an argument so how is it a straw-man? 

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Probably the wrong section to post a joke, my bad. Was thinking about posting it in the spam section.

It didn't read as funny, to me or others I think.

Humor might be universal to humanity, but what exactly is funny isn't. You might get a real kick out of lampooning Ike, but I'm not even sure if all Ike dislikers would share in it. Some might say "yeah he's awful, so can we not discuss him at all?".

Laughing at a person's faults might be a universal funny thing, but there is a subset of that I think, where the only people who will laugh, are those who are given to a schadenfreude obsession with the character (I don't mean to criticize you personally). You find this with politics I think. Politicians on both sides, including my preferred, I can and will laugh at at times. Yet even some of the comedians who make these jokes and are on my political side, aren't funny to me because their hatchet, if well meant and grounded in evidence, is just too scathing and therefore there is no refreshing humoral lightness to it. 

Given this, to avoid being misunderstood, consider for a moment how your humor might come off to others. I'm not trying to be harsh or condescending or anything, I'm trying to be polite and just explain what I personally think went wrong.

[Icelerate]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It didn't read as funny, to me or others I think.

Humor might be universal to humanity, but what exactly is funny isn't. You might get a real kick out of lampooning Ike, but I'm not even sure if all Ike dislikers would share in it. Some might say "yeah he's awful, so can we not discuss him at all?".

Laughing at a person's faults might be a universal funny thing, but there is a subset of that I think, where the only people who will laugh, are those who are given to a schadenfreude obsession with the character (I don't mean to criticize you personally). You find this with politics I think. Politicians on both sides, including my preferred, I can and will laugh at at times. Yet even some of the comedians who make these jokes and are on my political side, aren't funny to me because their hatchet, if well meant and grounded in evidence, is just too scathing and therefore there is no refreshing humoral lightness to it. 

Given this, to avoid being misunderstood, consider for a moment how your humor might come off to others. I'm not trying to be harsh or condescending or anything, I'm trying to be polite and just explain what I personally think went wrong.

Pretty sure I was making fun of both characters so there's a balance. Though my sense of humor is quite odd but I posted this on the shitpost section of Reddit and the post was well received so I disagree with your first sentence. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

Pretty sure I was making fun of both characters so there's a balance. Though my sense of humor is quite odd but I posted this on the shitpost section of Reddit and the post was well received so I disagree with your first sentence. 

I know nothing of Reddit behavior compared to SF behavior, but not all gaming forums are the same. SF is potentially more tasteful shall I say then others which shall remain unnamed. Sure some dung can fly in the designated Unpopular Opinions topic, and VGs, and sexualized ladies, whenever the topic of "worst" comes up, and new reveals can stir up some rage. But overall SF is toxicity free, anger that lasts for months elsewhere on the Internet fades fast on SF because people don't feel compelled to make a thousand topics on "I hate X", nor do they troll, people get over things and keep any vociferousness in their opinions to themselves most of the time. The mods do their jobs too of shutting down sources of hate- which the Internet could really use less of. Perhaps, again I know nothing about the website, Reddit is more inclined to this form of humor, owing perhaps to the nature of the site? You tell me. Even Far From the Forest here on SF is generally free of random hate, for such as I once recall our dear Eclipse putting it, is low quality even in a nonsensical context.

I interpreted your remarks on Micaiah not as humor, but as you portraying her as the victim of bias in RD's plot in making her pathetic and terrible when Ike gets lionized. Given you dislike Ike and love Micaiah, I don't think that was unfounded. Your attempt at balance read more as imbalance.

But I should stop myself here. I've already said too much. I'm not quite sure if the aforementioned mod will find what I have said at all objectionable.

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

I was just confused as to what was going on xD

I get what you were going for though. I didn't think you were being serious, I got a giggle out of it at least.

[Icelerate]

11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I know nothing of Reddit behavior compared to SF behavior, but not all gaming forums are the same. SF is potentially more tasteful shall I say then others which shall remain unnamed. Sure some dung can fly in the designated Unpopular Opinions topic, and VGs, and sexualized ladies, whenever the topic of "worst" comes up, and new reveals can stir up some rage. But overall SF is toxicity free, anger that lasts for months elsewhere on the Internet fades fast on SF because people don't feel compelled to make a thousand topics on "I hate X", nor do they troll, people get over things and keep any vociferousness in their opinions to themselves most of the time. The mods do their jobs too of shutting down sources of hate- which the Internet could really use less of. Perhaps, again I know nothing about the website, Reddit is more inclined to this form of humor, owing perhaps to the nature of the site? You tell me. Even Far From the Forest here on SF is generally free of random hate, for such as I once recall our dear Eclipse putting it, is low quality even in a nonsensical context.

I interpreted your remarks on Micaiah not as humor, but as you portraying her as the victim of bias in RD's plot in making her pathetic and terrible when Ike gets lionized. Given you dislike Ike and love Micaiah, I don't think that was unfounded. Your attempt at balance read more as imbalance.

But I should stop myself here. I've already said too much. I'm not quite sure if the aforementioned mod will find what I have said at all objectionable.

Let's make this an on topic discussion. 

I don't think there is anything inherently  wrong with the scenes I posted. I just interpreted them in the most negative way possible. 

I think the Greil Mercenaries rescuing Lucia was a well done scene. It doesn't matter if it was fanservice or not. The only problem I have is that somehow Bastian knew all along there would be an uprising and that Ike was told to keep this a secret. This is pretty dumb on Bastian's part as keeping information secret from Lucia and Elincia just makes their job harder. Also, I don't think Ike being a noble prior to leaving fits his character but what makes it worse is that he leaves just because he's disgusted by the nobility because that's being irresponsible. It would be better if he was in Gallia and word of the rebellion comes up where the Greil Mercenaries rush back to Crimea. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

I don't think there is anything inherently  wrong with the scenes I posted. I just interpreted them in the most negative way possible. 

The issue is that there is no ability to tell the tone someone is speaking in on the Internet, and negativity is a tricky thing to work with. Is it real? Is it over the top but fake? The Internet is a little too cynical a place for me to tell easily.

 

3 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I think the Greil Mercenaries rescuing Lucia was a well done scene. It doesn't matter if it was fanservice or not. The only problem I have is that somehow Bastian knew all along there would be an uprising and that Ike was told to keep this a secret. This is pretty dumb on Bastian's part as keeping information secret from Lucia and Elincia just makes their job harder. Also, I don't think Ike being a noble prior to leaving fits his character but what makes it worse is that he leaves just because he's disgusted by the nobility because that's being irresponsible. It would be better if he was in Gallia and word of the rebellion comes up where the Greil Mercenaries rush back to Crimea. 

Bastian I think wanted to make a point that he would not always be there to bail out Elincia, hence he had to trick her into thinking he wasn't there for her at all so she could grow as an individual. A bit cold, but Bastian is supposed to be calculating and deceptive beneath his cheery surface. It is a bit strange he and Lucia never talk about how his deception almost ended with her death in 4-5. Bastian loves her, but did he consider the possibility his feint could cost him her life?  If he did, wow he loves Crimea over all else!

As for Ike, well the peerage was originally given back in Begnion, but it was bestowed by Elincia. That was necessary for the moment of making Ike into a more suitable leader for the Begnion forces loaned to Elincia, whilst not making him Sanaki's vassal. Him leading a noble's life after PoR was probably him trying to accept his new position in life, to get used to the old days before the Daein invasion of yesteryear as a common humble mercenary being over and this accidental elevation to world fame his new way. Of course, not all warriors are capable as gentleman farmers and politicians- the affairs of nobility in peacetime. Ike being an upstart nouveau riche integral to the accidental new queen's return (according to the opening narration of 2-P, Elincia's existence having been kept a secret made them angry) no doubt upset the standard Crimean nobility with long bloodlines traditionally used to predominance.

Ike could have stayed around. I think his attitude would build up a loyal following among Crimean soldiers, who'd like an honest, earthly, plainspoken commander. But his tongue, the same tongue restrained but not silenced after the Sanaki outburst, would not have won him many noble allies outside of maybe Geoffrey, Lucia, Bastian and a few NPCs. It would have been an uphill battle to fight, him and a handful of others against a strong establishment, with Elincia the weakling whose bidding Ike did, would not be desiring to see such internal political conflict. Civil war resulting from this would not have been impossible, even if Ike would ultimately be able to hammer it down.

Ike left, it is said "Perhaps to avoid becoming mired in these power struggles". Which occurred partly because "The elevation of a common mercenary to the nobility, however, widened the rift between the aristocracy and queen yet further". So he had good intentions, he just overestimated the pettiness of the nobility thinking his absence would placate them. 

Which reminds me, I'd wish we'd gotten a little more on the Daein and Crimean nobilities, to be able to better contrast them with Begnion's, and with Ashnardian Daein. Bryce and Tauroneo give us samplings of the old nobility, but not quite the details of how it worked. Was Daein's at all any more meritocratic pre-Ashnard than Begnion's and Crimea's? Was the Crimean nobility more explicitly a power-sharer with the monarch than the Senate was with the Empress-Apostle? Crimea and Daein were founded by former Senators without goddess powers, so they'd in theory be able to command less divine authority.

[Icelerate]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The issue is that there is no ability to tell the tone someone is speaking in on the Internet, and negativity is a tricky thing to work with. Is it real? Is it over the top but fake? The Internet is a little too cynical a place for me to tell easily.

 

Bastian I think wanted to make a point that he would not always be there to bail out Elincia, hence he had to trick her into thinking he wasn't there for her at all so she could grow as an individual. A bit cold, but Bastian is supposed to be calculating and deceptive beneath his cheery surface. It is a bit strange he and Lucia never talk about how his deception almost ended with her death in 4-5. Bastian loves her, but did he consider the possibility his feint could cost him her life?  If he did, wow he loves Crimea over all else!

As for Ike, well the peerage was originally given back in Begnion, but it was bestowed by Elincia. That was necessary for the moment of making Ike into a more suitable leader for the Begnion forces loaned to Elincia, whilst not making him Sanaki's vassal. Him leading a noble's life after PoR was probably him trying to accept his new position in life, to get used to the old days before the Daein invasion of yesteryear as a common humble mercenary being over and this accidental elevation to world fame his new way. Of course, not all warriors are capable as gentleman farmers and politicians- the affairs of nobility in peacetime. Ike being an upstart nouveau riche integral to the accidental new queen's return (according to the opening narration of 2-P, Elincia's existence having been kept a secret made them angry) no doubt upset the standard Crimean nobility with long bloodlines traditionally used to predominance.

Ike could have stayed around. I think his attitude would build up a loyal following among Crimean soldiers, who'd like an honest, earthly, plainspoken commander. But his tongue, the same tongue restrained but not silenced after the Sanaki outburst, would not have won him many noble allies outside of maybe Geoffrey, Lucia, Bastian and a few NPCs. It would have been an uphill battle to fight, him and a handful of others against a strong establishment, with Elincia the weakling whose bidding Ike did, would not be desiring to see such internal political conflict. Civil war resulting from this would not have been impossible, even if Ike would ultimately be able to hammer it down.

Ike left, it is said "Perhaps to avoid becoming mired in these power struggles". Which occurred partly because "The elevation of a common mercenary to the nobility, however, widened the rift between the aristocracy and queen yet further". So he had good intentions, he just overestimated the pettiness of the nobility thinking his absence would placate them. 

Which reminds me, I'd wish we'd gotten a little more on the Daein and Crimean nobilities, to be able to better contrast them with Begnion's, and with Ashnardian Daein. Bryce and Tauroneo give us samplings of the old nobility, but not quite the details of how it worked. Was Daein's at all any more meritocratic pre-Ashnard than Begnion's and Crimea's? Was the Crimean nobility more explicitly a power-sharer with the monarch than the Senate was with the Empress-Apostle? Crimea and Daein were founded by former Senators without goddess powers, so they'd in theory be able to command less divine authority.

Still don't think it's a good plan for the same reason Rudolf's gambit is criticized in SoV. But Bastian is worse because Rudolf is an antagonist with the survival of the fittest ideology and Bastian is on the same side as the good guys without morally repugnant views. He could have just told Lucia and Elincia that there is something nasty brewing but that they will have to do everything on their own and the plot would have worked out. Or just make it that Bastian's intelligence gathering is not flawless and that he missed the signs of rebellion. All of these are better alternatives. Speaking of chapter 4-5, once it was revealed that Bastian used his diplomatic status to capture Izuka, that's a form of deception that shouldn't go unpunished. It's equivalent to holding a diplomatic meeting with a morally repugnant world leader and then assassinating them. I'm surprised this isn't brought up in the narrative as a serious breach of trust. Begnion killing Laguz messengers gave the Laguz Alliance the idea that it's time to invade Begnion. Perhaps instead of the blood pact, it would be interesting if Daein invades Crimea again because of Bastian's breach of trust which would just give Ludveck's supporters an "aha I told you so" moment. 

Ike could have renounced his nobility at the end of Path of Radiance because he only accepted it to lead the army. Though he may have good intentions to resign, suddenly disappearing was too extreme of a solution. Also if the point of part 2 was that Elincia no longer needs Ike, shouldn't the Crimean Royal Knights be able to protect Elincia instead of Ike in chapter 3-10? Always thought that chapter should be played from the perspective of the Crimean Royal Knights because of availability reasons and it would be thematically fitting that Elincia and her retainers can solve Crimea's problems without needing to rely on the Greil Mercenaries. Ike starts to get on my nerves from this point as the whole purpose of part 2 is ruined. 

The politics of the three beorc countries are indeed quite intriguing. From my perspective, Daein is a militaristic kingdom where true power resides in the military. Hence why the four riders exercised great power in PoR and hence why Micaiah and Tauroneo exercised political power in RD. Ashnard was probably readily accepted because he's from the military. 

On the other hand, Zelgius had little authority which goes to show the Senators had the political power so Begnion stays true to being a theocracy where the military has no political power. 

Crimea is more of a traditional monarchy based on how easily accepting people were of Elincia compared to Pelleas. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

44 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Speaking of chapter 4-5, once it was revealed that Bastian used his diplomatic status to capture Izuka, that's a form of deception that shouldn't go unpunished. It's equivalent to holding a diplomatic meeting with a morally repugnant world leader and then assassinating them. I'm surprised this isn't brought up in the narrative as a serious breach of trust. Begnion killing Laguz messengers gave the Laguz Alliance the idea that it's time to invade Begnion. Perhaps instead of the blood pact, it would be interesting if Daein invades Crimea again because of Bastian's breach of trust which would just give Ludveck's supporters an "aha I told you so" moment. 

I'm not sure if Bastian is certain to blame for Izuka's sudden disappearance from the Daein court. It could have been that once Pelleas was enthroned and signed the Blood Pact, Izuka left court freed from any obligations to "obey" Pelleas. His assignment was to get a weakling pretender on the throne (or sabotage the chance of it happening?- I get the impression he being both used to control Daein's restiveness in a harmless outlet and to quash it if possible), once the BP was signed, Daein was firmly in the Senate's hands, so was no longer needed and could finally get back to his work (the Senate probably compensated him for the job- how else would he agree to it?).

Your alternative scenario has novelty, on the grounds that Micaiah would be fighting basically to avenge a morally reprehensible individual, not some pretty fair princess or other noble soul. Blood Pact-ish in this way, but not so magical.

Although Daein being fresh off a liberation war would not be so willing to stomach an invasion of Crimea. The Laguz Alliance consisted of two-three countries not ravaged by occupation and war and relative latecomers to the Mad King's War. Begnion too was the major victor of the Mad King's War and we get no sense that that scarred the country's populace in the slightest. It also had an army capable in the past of going against everyone but Goldoa and still ending in only a stalemate after forty years. More likely, Pelleas or Micaiah would agitate for a peaceful resolution, and unlike the arrogant Senate, Elincia would heed demands for talks of such a sort. Diplomatic crises can start wars, the Defenestration of Prague that kicked off the Thirty Years' War being one significant instance, but they don't always end so badly.

44 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Also if the point of part 2 was that Elincia no longer needs Ike, shouldn't the Crimean Royal Knights be able to protect Elincia instead of Ike in chapter 3-10? Always thought that chapter should be played from the perspective of the Crimean Royal Knights because of availability reasons and it would be thematically fitting that Elincia and her retainers can solve Crimea's problems without needing to rely on the Greil Mercenaries. Ike starts to get on my nerves from this point as the whole purpose of part 2 is ruined.

Well Elincia does the big green bubble in that chapter, Geoffrey and everyone else came to her aid. Adding in Zelgius's refusal to send Valtome support, the Crimean Royal Knights feasibly could have done it all by themselves. Elincia didn't ask for Ike's help, but it'd be pretty dang cruel if he didn't come to her defense being friends and all when he was right there. I think they went with the GMs for the playable group due to there being more PCs among them, even if the handful of CRKs could use it more. It wasn't like Ike had no reason to be there other than to rescue Elincia- he was getting ready to fight a big battle which Elincia happened to interrupt. Being able to pick one of two sides for this fight would have been neat though.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[Icelerate]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'm not sure if Bastian is certain to blame for Izuka's sudden disappearance from the Daein court. It could have been that once Pelleas was enthroned and signed the Blood Pact, Izuka left court freed from any obligations to "obey" Pelleas. His assignment was to get a weakling pretender on the throne (or sabotage the chance of it happening?- I get the impression he being both used to control Daein's restiveness in a harmless outlet and to quash it if possible), once the BP was signed, Daein was firmly in the Senate's hands, so was no longer needed and could finally get back to his work (the Senate probably compensated him for the job- how else would he agree to it?).

Your alternative scenario has novelty, on the grounds that Micaiah would be fighting basically to avenge a morally reprehensible individual, not some pretty fair princess or other noble soul. Blood Pact-ish in this way, but not so magical.

Although Daein being fresh off a liberation war would not be so willing to stomach an invasion of Crimea. The Laguz Alliance consisted of two-three countries not ravaged by occupation and war and relative latecomers to the Mad King's War. Begnion too was the major victor of the Mad King's War and we get no sense that that scarred the country's populace in the slightest. It also had an army capable in the past of going against everyone but Goldoa and still ending in only a stalemate after forty years. More likely, Pelleas or Micaiah would agitate for a peaceful resolution, and unlike the arrogant Senate, Elincia would heed demands for talks of such a sort. Diplomatic crises can start wars, the Defenestration of Prague that kicked off the Thirty Years' War being one significant instance, but they don't always end so badly.

Well Elincia does the big green bubble in that chapter, Geoffrey and everyone else came to her aid. Adding in Zelgius's refusal to send Valtome support, the Crimean Royal Knights feasibly could have done it all by themselves. Elincia didn't ask for Ike's help, but it'd be pretty dang cruel if he didn't come to her defense being friends and all when he was right there. I think they went with the GMs for the playable group due to there being more PCs among them, even if the handful of CRKs could use it more. It wasn't like Ike had no reason to be there other than to rescue Elincia- he was getting ready to fight a big battle which Elincia happened to interrupt. Being able to pick one of two sides for this fight would have been neat though.

I'm not sure what actually happened to Izuka but I was reading a character discussion on Izuka and it was said he was captured by Volke and Bastian through diplomatic espionage. Don't know if the script supports this. 

While he'll still be morally corrupt, Izuka would be somewhat better because he's still loyal to Pelleas and decides to change his ways. Once he gets kidnapped, Pelleas would demand Crimea hands him back or face the consequences. Of course, Elincia isn't going to let Izuka free but does apologize for Bastian's misconduct but this doesn't ease tensions since an apology is just words, not actions. 

Daein still holds resentment over Crimea and went to war with pretty much everyone in part three. I think part 3 Daein's military power is sold short by the fanbase. It was mentioned in chapter 3-13 that Daein has 10000 soldiers. In the Crimean uprising, Elincia had 6000 soldiers at her disposal. Daein's military had taken a lot of losses before chapter 3-13 so its military might should far exceed that of Crimea's. Not to mention that Daein soldiers have more fighting spirit than Crimean soldiers. Also Ike said that despite smaller in number, the Daein army fights more ferociously than under Ashnard, the same guy who made quick work of Crimea. 

Ike would be with the Laguz Alliance and wouldn't show up because he's unaware and when he does become aware, would help Elincia out after a set amount of turns pass. 

[ping]

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I interpreted your remarks on Micaiah not as humor, but as you portraying her as the victim of bias in RD's plot in making her pathetic and terrible when Ike gets lionized. Given you dislike Ike and love Micaiah, I don't think that was unfounded. Your attempt at balance read more as imbalance.

That was my interpretation of that post, as well - not a jab at the characters themselves, but at the fans who like Ike and/or dislike Micaiah, since you're warping reasons to do so to a point where they're completely ridiculous. That's why I consider it a strawman: you make fun of that position(s) on Ike/Miccy by mocking a string of arguments noone (in this thread, at least) brought up or even just hinted at.

38 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Not to mention that Daein soldiers have more fighting spirit than Crimean soldiers.

Where is that stated?

Edited January 31, 2018 by ping

[Interdimensional Observer]

15 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Daein still holds resentment over Crimea and went to war with pretty much everyone in part three. I think part 3 Daein's military power is sold short by the fanbase. It was mentioned in chapter 3-13 that Daein has 10000 soldiers. In the Crimean uprising, Elincia had 6000 soldiers at her disposal. Daein's military had taken a lot of losses before chapter 3-13 so its military might should far exceed that of Crimea's. Not to mention that Daein soldiers have more fighting spirit than Crimean soldiers. Also Ike said that despite smaller in number, the Daein army fights more ferociously than under Ashnard, the same guy who made quick work of Crimea. 

The Japanese Extended Script says Elincia loaned 5000 to the LA after 3-10. How large a loan is this? Well Crimea is clearly in peacetime after PoR with no military ambitions, so that Elincia could muster 6000 very quickly would suggest Crimea can probably muster a several tens of thousands if it needed to fight that badly. Daein I should expect the same from. The countries appear to be roughly equal in size, Crimea wider but Daein taller.

The Recollections say Daein is agriculturally barren, while Crimea is at least average. But even with a smaller population, that wouldn't stop Daein from having a potentially larger army, even if Crimea, less bellicose by historical nature, would have the resources to field more troops in the long run. (The Recollections are reliable, but only to a degree, since what it says about Begnion here is largely outdated and refers to a pre-final version of Tellius. Although Begnion being so gigantic, that even if you cut out the Serenes Forest and Grann Desert, it is still bigger than Crimea or Daein. And if what remains is fertile, the Sestohl Plain and the area southeast of Sienne having large rivers being potential evidence for this, then Begnion should have a significant population lead.)

 

15 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I'm not sure what actually happened to Izuka but I was reading a character discussion on Izuka and it was said he was captured by Volke and Bastian through diplomatic espionage. Don't know if the script supports this.

Here is what I can find:

Spoiler

Bastian:
“Duke Renning was apparently killed three years ago…But as you can see, he is still alive. Duke Renning was one of the strongest warriors in Crimea, and while Daein tried to kill him, he survived. When the Mad King heard of his skill,he had Renning kidnapped and gave him the drug that creates Feral Ones. This drug made Duke Renning even stronger, but shattered his mind. He became Bertram, one of Ashnard’s infamous Four Riders. After Her Majesty and company defeated him, I had him taken back to my castle. I hoped to find a cure, but I didn’t want to raise false hope, Your Majesty, so I kept the secret. However, his mind continued to deteriorate, and there were no signs of improvement.”

(Volke appears in the image)

Bastian:
“As a last resort, I hired Volke to investigate a way to cure him.”

(Image of Izuka)

Bastian:
“Volke quickly discovered that Duke Renning’s transformation was engineered by a man called Izuka. This man had made himself an aide to the new king of Daein and was not difficult to locate. Feeling that Renning was running out of time, we kidnapped Izuka to learn more of the condition.Returning to Fayre Castle, we interrogated Izuka at length and discovered more about his experiments. Perhaps unsurprisingly, beorc are affected differently by the drug than laguz. Izuka then offered to create an antidote in exchange for his freedom.”

SF does not have 3-6's text, but it says "They (Izuka and the BK) mysteriously disappeared on the day of my (Pelleas's) coronation."

Which to me seems too soon for Bastian and Volke to have done it. It depends on how long passed between Jarod's defeat and the official coronation, if there was enough time for Crimea to prepare an envoy (how nice it would have been to see Bastian at the end of 1-F), then maybe it was the case.