Should Boon and Bane be visible to the player?

[Von Ithipathachai]

So I'm trying to build more teams for Tempest Trials and I just reached 20,000 Feathers to promote a unit to 5-Star with.  I'm thinking about promoting my 4-Star Priscilla, but I can't tell what her IV's are (she's Level 20+2 with 27 HP, 18 Atk, 17 Spd, 7 Def, and 20 Res) and I would like to start avoiding putting work into units with unfavorable IVs from now on.

I also have a 4-Star Level 20+1 Titania with 26 HP, 16 Atk, 18 Spd, and 17 Def and Res who also has IV's I can't discern, along with a couple of untrained 4-Star Titanias, one with +HP/-Res and another with +Spd/-Atk.

This made me wonder:  Would it hurt at all for the game to provide some way of showing a character's Boon and Bane if possible?

[Magical Glace]

Well, for the Priscilla/Titania, you can go into the increase rarity screen to view her 5* base stats and determine her nature with those.

But I do think IS should include some sort of interface indicator.  It's annoying to have to use the internet all the time. 

People say that ignorance is bliss for casuals... but I don't really agree with that. You can find out the mechanic exists very easily just by looking up build advice and stuff.  I'd rather the game be completely transparent for everyone, so they know exactly what they got when they get it without consulting external resources.

 

 

[Xenomata]

First, a level 20+ 4* or lower can see their level 1 stats when attempting to Unlock their Potential.

Second, YES yes 1 year anniversary goals PLEASE DO IT. Just do what was a glitch before and have color indicators for the boon and bane. Shouldn't be that big a headache.

[Reality]

I think at this point, with the online calculator's available, they might as well. Just do the Green font / Red font the way pokemon does.

[Humanoid]

I'd prefer them easily visible to save time, sure, since I catalogue the natures for every unit I pull. For your purposes however, you can just go to the unlock potential menu and pretend to promote them to see what their 5-star level 1 stats would be. This works for any unit from level 20-40 of below 5-star rarity, so both your Priscilla and Titania are covered (you don't even need 20k feathers to be able to see the preview).

 

EDIT: Ha, beaten not just once but twice.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Humanoid

[Von Ithipathachai]

2 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Well, for the Priscilla/Titania, you can go into the increase rarity screen to view her 5* base stats and determine her nature with those.

But I do think IS should include some sort of interface indicator.  It's annoying to have to use the internet all the time. 

People say that ignorance is bliss for casuals... but I don't really agree with that. You can find out the mechanic exists very easily just by looking up build advice and stuff.  I'd rather the game be completely transparent for everyone, so they know exactly what they got when they get it without consulting external resources.

Thanks for the advice.  Somehow I forgot you could see a unit's 5-Star bases before you actually promoted them.

My mystery Titania is +Def/-HP and my Priscilla is +Atk/-Res.  I should be able to make Priscilla work, but I'm unsure about Titania.

[Javi Blizz]

Well, it took 5 generations (if I don’t remember bad) for Pokemon to make them visible, so I think that if they do it in FEH, it won’t be in the near future :/

[CatManThree]

I don't know how it would ever work honestly. Remember that enemy stats are usually preset and inflated for difficulty. In other words, enemy stats are different from the stats obtainable by the player.

Edited January 17, 2018 by CatManThree

[Jotari]

Still waiting for growths to become visible in the main series 

[Von Ithipathachai]

2 minutes ago, CatManThree said:

I don't know how it would ever work honestly simply due to how the enemy stats are usually preset and inflated for difficulty.

?

I figured this would just be for player units.  The game already doesn't tell you how merged Level 40+ enemies are, so I doubt it would bother telling you enemy Boon and Bane either.

[CatManThree]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Still waiting for growths to become visible in the main series 

Not to go off topic but, why? Bases more often than not are more important than growths...

[Humanoid]

1 minute ago, CatManThree said:

Not to go off topic but, why? Bases more often than not are more important than growths...

Showing growths doesn't mean hiding bases. :P

There's no reason not to show more information than the FE series traditionally has. Maybe back in the GBA era it was hard to find a way to elegantly display all the numbers players need look up online, but with the next FE being on the switch, there is no reasonable technical limitation. I mean we already have the option of simplified or complex information display so it's hardly a stretch to include more optional info.

Personally I prefer FEH's fixed stat gains over the random growth system, but I realise this is probably an unpopular opinion. For those familiar with the XCOM reboot, there is a "second wave" set of gameplay options you can use to customise several gameplay mechanics, and I'd like to see this be one of the toggles in future mainline FE games.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Xenomata said:

First, a level 20+ 4* or lower can see their level 1 stats when attempting to Unlock their Potential.

Second, YES yes 1 year anniversary goals PLEASE DO IT. Just do what was a glitch before and have color indicators for the boon and bane. Shouldn't be that big a headache.

2 hours ago, Reality said:

I think at this point, with the online calculator's available, they might as well. Just do the Green font / Red font the way pokemon does.

I'm already not fond of the red, green, and purple color of the weapon, assist, and special skill slots. It makes the screen look too busy (especially because those lines already have an icon that already indicates what the line is).

If they do an indicator, I'd prefer it to be a border or something more subtle. Personally, I don't find it particularly necessary.

 

1 hour ago, CatManThree said:

I don't know how it would ever work honestly. Remember that enemy stats are usually preset and inflated for difficulty. In other words, enemy stats are different from the stats obtainable by the player.

1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

?

I figured this would just be for player units.  The game already doesn't tell you how merged Level 40+ enemies are, so I doubt it would bother telling you enemy Boon and Bane either.

Generic enemies have their stats generated based on their level. This is why, for example, every Grand Hero Battle generic enemy of the same class has the same base stats. Non-generic enemies appear to follow different rules, though as far as i can tell, the ones outside of the Training Tower appear to all have neutral natures.

Enemies that are "level 40+" as far as I can tell are not actually merged. They are literally just "higher than level 40" with their stats generated using their growth rates (For example, Siegbert and Shiro in Story 2-2-4 appear to be either level 43 or level 44).

 

1 hour ago, Javi Blizz said:

Well, it took 5 generations (if I don’t remember bad) for Pokemon to make them visible, so I think that if they do it in FEH, it won’t be in the near future :/

Natures were added in Generation 3. I know they were visible in Generation 5 (I haven't played any of the Generation 4 games because that was when I was a poor college kid with no money).

Japanese video games in general are pretty bad and slow at making convenient UI. I think Generation 7 was the first time they moved the "move Pokémon" option in the PC above deposit and withdraw.

[Xenomata]

20 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm already not fond of the red, green, and purple color of the weapon, assist, and special skill slots. It makes the screen look too busy (especially because those lines already have an icon that already indicates what the line is).

If they do an indicator, I'd prefer it to be a border or something more subtle. Personally, I don't find it particularly necessary.

Natures were added in Generation 3. I know they were visible in Generation 5 (I haven't played any of the Generation 4 games because that was when I was a poor college kid with no money).

Japanese video games in general are pretty bad and slow at making convenient UI. I think Generation 7 was the first time they moved the "move Pokémon" option in the PC above deposit and withdraw.

If it was in gen 4, then I don't remember it. It could have been in HG/SS, but I also don't remember HG/SS that well (and haven't played any other gen 4). Also, it was gen 6 that moved the "Move Pokemon" option above the deposit and withdraw buttons... in OR/AS, when you talked to Hoenn's PC manager in a house outside of the town after Mauville City, where you need to get the 3rd badge to move on. What gen 7 did was even more innovative: Screw the Players PC, Professors PC, and Hall of Fame. Don't even need all this menu stuff anymore, just press A at the PC and go straight to Moving Pokemon.

It would make more sense to be a border, or at least have the border be around the words instead of the letters, since the numbers already change colors based on if you are buffed, debuffed, or glitched. I know it isn't necessary, but it'd still at least remove the annoying step of checking the units base stats outside of the game.

I think I really only want it because I could have avoided promoting and merging into a +Spd -Atk Nino if it was more obvious that I was using the wrong Nino.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Xenomata

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

or at least have the border be around the words instead of the letters,

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this (your wording is ambiguous). I'd vouch for the border of the fancy box around the stat (similar to how the color of the border around the character's name and weapon type in the header ribbon indicates the unit's rarity).

Changing the color of the outlines of the characters themselves looks weird in Japanese because of how much area the outlines take up (the perimeter of a single character in Japanese is, on average, much, much greater than the perimeter of a single character in the Latin character set).

 

28 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

in OR/AS, when you talked to Hoenn's PC manager in a house outside of the town after Mauville City,

Okay. Case in point right here. The fact that you need to do complete a task in-game to make the UI more user-friendly is horrible UI design by literally any standard.

This is like the equivalent of if Windows didn't allow use of a physical keyboard (on-screen keyboard and mouse are fine) until you clear Minesweeper on Intermediate difficulty.

[Xenomata]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this (your wording is ambiguous). I'd vouch for the border of the fancy box around the stat (similar to how the color of the border around the character's name and weapon type in the header ribbon indicates the unit's rarity).

Changing the color of the outlines of the characters themselves looks weird in Japanese because of how much area the outlines take up (the perimeter of a single character in Japanese is, on average, much, much greater than the perimeter of a single character in the Latin character set).

 

Okay. Case in point right here. The fact that you need to do complete a task in-game to make the UI more user-friendly is horrible UI design by literally any standard.

This is like the equivalent of if Windows didn't allow use of a physical keyboard (on-screen keyboard and mouse are fine) until you clear Minesweeper on Intermediate difficulty.

Ah... typing screw up.What I meant was the following:

Spoiler

 

A characters stats, here lets use Attack, will usually look something like this:

Atk  50

When a unit has been buffed... Atk   54

And when they have been debuffed/Panicked...  Atk   46

What I had in mind, was for instance our unit is +Atk -Res...

Atk   50     Spd   27

Def   30     Res   27

Except the words would not be all green or all red, rather they would still be white, but with a Green/Red outline. Dunno how I managed to make it sound so... odd. I swear I edited that post like 10 times making sure everything could be understood...

I'll take your word for how weird it'd be using Japanese characters though.

 

Now that seems kind of an extreme example, but point taken all the same. I'd like to believe we're still in the infancy of good menu design, but I kinda feel like it's more Nintendo that has these problems anymore, don't take my word for it I don't even remember the last time I played anything not on a Nintendo console.

[Zeo]

For the sake of simplicity, it should simply be green for boon and red for bane. But only for your units in your base. Not for enemy units of any kind, not even in arena. You're already calculating your opponent's stats without the need for the color, it's most important viewing the natures of your own units, and once you've taken them into battle, it can be assumed you know their nature already, so there's no need for the color coating during gameplay.

tl;dr, nature color coating for only your units, and only while in the menus.

[Astellius]

6 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

This made me wonder:  Would it hurt at all for the game to provide some way of showing a character's Boon and Bane if possible?

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm already not fond of the red, green, and purple color of the weapon, assist, and special skill slots. It makes the screen look too busy (especially because those lines already have an icon that already indicates what the line is).

If they do an indicator, I'd prefer it to be a border or something more subtle. Personally, I don't find it particularly necessary.

While I would like an easy way to see the boon/bane, I agree with Ice Dragon, in that I would like it to be as non-intrusive as possible. I absolutely do not want color indicators, especially since this information is not that useful or pertinent most of the time. I think even a border is too much. If they did add colors for it, I would want the option to toggle them off.

I think a non-intrusive way to implement it would be to add that information to the end of the character's bio when you click on their name on their profile page. That seems like a reasonable place to put it, where it's out of the way and is not so likely to confuse players who don't know or care about natures. It would then give the bio, list the title of the game they're from, and then enumerate the boon/bane, if any. Alternatively, I think they could indicate it on the detailed explanation for the individual stats. So if you had a Spd boon, and you clicked on the Spd stat, it would have an indicator in the description.

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, CatManThree said:

Not to go off topic but, why? Bases more often than not are more important than growths...

Yeah, bases are better, but, like, growths aren't inconsequential.

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Japanese video games in general are pretty bad and slow at making convenient UI. I think Generation 7 was the first time they moved the "move Pokémon" option in the PC above deposit and withdraw.

Actually I'm pretty sure Pokemon Colliseum had move pokemon as the primary option...could be wrong, and if I am right, I have no idea why they didn't make it like that in the main games.

[Nébulya]

11 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Well, for the Priscilla/Titania, you can go into the increase rarity screen to view her 5* base stats and determine her nature with those.

But I do think IS should include some sort of interface indicator.  It's annoying to have to use the internet all the time. 

People say that ignorance is bliss for casuals... but I don't really agree with that. You can find out the mechanic exists very easily just by looking up build advice and stuff.  I'd rather the game be completely transparent for everyone, so they know exactly what they got when they get it without consulting external resources.

 

 

Damn, you're a genius. I never thought of that! Thanks for the tip 

[Magical Glace]

1 hour ago, Metakirby said:

Damn, you're a genius. I never thought of that! Thanks for the tip 

I'm pretty sure it's a common practice, but you're welcome anyway!

[Rezzy]

I wouldn't mind having it displayed, but want other quality of life improvements more.  I'm mostly neutral towards the idea.

[Astellius]

1 hour ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I'm pretty sure it's a common practice, but you're welcome anyway!

It is common practice, but it's good to spread the tips anyway!

[Seafarer]

YES PLEASE. Let me kill my (woefully outdated) Excel sheet of assets and flaws.

11 hours ago, Xenomata said:

If it was in gen 4, then I don't remember it. It could have been in HG/SS, but I also don't remember HG/SS that well (and haven't played any other gen 4).

Yes, it started in HGSS.

[Logjam]

I think you should be able to view it. Serious player already just head over to an IV calculator when they summon units they want. It would just simplify the process.