What 3ds game had the best weapon system, including magic.

[TheGreatNothing]

Which game did weapons the best. This includes the inventory system.(SoV only having 1 slot.), Durability and how they are used(Arts, bow ranges...)

[Shoblongoo]

Fates was the overall best, due to its double weapon triangle and interactivity between all weapons available in the game.

Looking at the magic system in a vacuum, Echoes had some really cool mechanics that would be neat to see in other games. I like the idea of each character having their own spell list as part of the uniqueness of their character, rather than any magic user being able to use any spell once they get sufficient weapon rank. Utility spells like Warp and Rescue having unlimited use....YES...bring that back. But overall it was not as polished or well-integrated into the broader combat system as Fates. Not making base hit rates on spells affected by skill or dodge like every other attack was a weird and unbalancing gimmick. 

I'd like to see a return to the magic system of the GBA and Tellius era, tbh, where magic has multiple sub-classes of users and its own internal weapon triangle with certain forms of magic being weak to or effective against others.  That would get kind of messy with the combat system of Fates--a weapon triangle within a weapon triangle--but they could make it work.

...and I do think that they have to figure out a better way to balance infinite durability weapons than what they implemented in Fates. 

Maybe switch over to a hybrid system where melee weapons have infinite durability, but hand axes and javelins and the like "break" after ~20 uses (i.e. you're dissuaded from equipping them all the time like in the GBA games. And you're simulating the realism of users of those weapons eventually running "out of ammo" in a fight, with a game mechanic)

I also think the *-5 effective speed and only strike consecutively on player phase* mechanic of Heroes is a better way to balance infinite durability brave weapons than what they did in Fates; making them good for certain characters but not broken or mindlessly spammable on anyone, or so overnerfed that they become unusable garbage..

Brave weapons in Fates were terribly, terribly over-nerfed.  To the point that you almost never wanted to use them.  Which was shame. Brave weapons are fun and increase diversity of strats and builds. 

Something like Brave Lance Effie in Fates the way she works in Heroes would have been a fun thing to have. 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Ertrick36]

I think I ultimately like Fates' weapon and inventory system the most.  I do have some issues with it, including the way magic was handled, the inclusion of magic and bows in the weapon triangle, and the general overbalancing of certain high-grade weapons (particularly silvers with their stacking debuffs and dark magic just being absolute trash), but the pros outweigh the cons.  I dislike weapon durability, particularly how it was done in Awakening, so it was nice to see it gone in Fates.  I also love beastkin getting the beastrune, making them a uniquely versatile unit.

Awakening basically feels like an infant version of Fates in this regard.  Though I will say that I like that even the weapons that were named after characters (e.g. Alm's Blade) had unique models, as opposed to Fates' named weapons (Camilla's Axe, Oboro's spear, etc.) just being recolors of existing weapons.  Unique weapon icons were neat, too.  And dark magic actually felt like its own thing; granted, it might have been supremely OP, but it was certainly a lot funner than the single dark magic spell in Fates that was nerfed to oblivion.

Echoes seemed very experimental.  Interesting ideas, but no thought was really put into how to implement them in the game.  Magic was by far the most interesting in this game for how it handled the balance.  Combat Arts was an interesting concept, but because Echoes is basically Gaiden, nothing was done to actually implement them properly into the game.  So really, it's just this optional gimmick.

[Arthur97]

13 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I think I ultimately like Fates' weapon and inventory system the most.  I do have some issues with it, including the way magic was handled, the inclusion of magic and bows in the weapon triangle, and the general overbalancing of certain high-grade weapons (particularly silvers with their stacking debuffs and dark magic just being absolute trash), but the pros outweigh the cons.  I dislike weapon durability, particularly how it was done in Awakening, so it was nice to see it gone in Fates.  I also love beastkin getting the beastrune, making them a uniquely versatile unit.

Awakening basically feels like an infant version of Fates in this regard.  Though I will say that I like that even the weapons that were named after characters (e.g. Alm's Blade) had unique models, as opposed to Fates' named weapons (Camilla's Axe, Oboro's spear, etc.) just being recolors of existing weapons.  Unique weapon icons were neat, too.  And dark magic actually felt like its own thing; granted, it might have been supremely OP, but it was certainly a lot funner than the single dark magic spell in Fates that was nerfed to oblivion.

Echoes seemed very experimental.  Interesting ideas, but no thought was really put into how to implement them in the game.  Magic was by far the most interesting in this game for how it handled the balance.  Combat Arts was an interesting concept, but because Echoes is basically Gaiden, nothing was done to actually implement them properly into the game.  So really, it's just this optional gimmick.

How was Awakening's durability different from previous games? The only think I can really think of is that Falchion was indestructible as opposed to story weapons in the GBA games, but that was fixed before Awakening.

[Shoblongoo]

46 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

How was Awakening's durability different from previous games? The only think I can really think of is that Falchion was indestructible as opposed to story weapons in the GBA games, but that was fixed before Awakening.

Weapons had limited durability. But you also had unlimited access to all the high-end stuff--brave weapons, spears, tomahawks, nosferatu--through the world maps.

So for all-intents-and-purposes, you had the functional equivalent of unlimited durability. The game just made you grind for it, instead of giving it to you up front.  (compare to say FE7, where you get one of each brave weapon for an entire playthrough. The brave sword only if you fulfill the conditions to recruit Harken over Karel. One Tomahawk. One or Two Luna tomes. Durability thus becomes a strategy element of resource management--not merely a reason to grind) 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Ertrick36]

51 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

How was Awakening's durability different from previous games? The only think I can really think of is that Falchion was indestructible as opposed to story weapons in the GBA games, but that was fixed before Awakening.

Because Armsthrift exists, which is something unique to Awakening.  No game before Awakening gave units the ability to slow down or outright halt the process of a weapon's degradation, and it definitely is a broken skill if used right.

Also, the majority of infinite-use weapons before Awakening (and aside from games where durability doesn't exist) were late-game weapons, and thus it didn't really matter how much you could use them anyway since you wouldn't be fighting as many enemies.  Falchion and the Parallel Falchion are both weapons you acquire pretty much immediately in Awakening, so you could potentially use them hundreds or even thousands of times.  The Parallel Falchion in particular has really good stats for a weapon you pretty much acquire mid-game and is also unbreakable; it's pretty much just as powerful as Marth's Falchion in the DS remakes.

What I'm essentially saying is because of certain exploitable gimmicks, Awakening's durability system is the least balanced in the series, which is why it's particularly my least favorite durability system.  In truth, I just don't like durability, and if you play the game with minimal grinding you're very unlikely to break it that much, but still... the fact that it's exploitable in the first place is entirely a unique trait of Awakening.

Also, what Shoblongo said.  You can't really buy brave weapons in most of the games.  Nor can you get multiple Mercuriuses, Parthias, or Gradivuses.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Ertrick36

[Arthur97]

6 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Because Armsthrift exists, which is something unique to Awakening.  No game before Awakening gave units the ability to slow down or outright halt the process of a weapon's degradation, and it definitely is a broken skill if used right.

Also, the majority of infinite-use weapons before Awakening (and aside from games where durability doesn't exist) were late-game weapons, and thus it didn't really matter how much you could use them anyway since you wouldn't be fighting as many enemies.  Falchion and the Parallel Falchion are both weapons you acquire pretty much immediately in Awakening, so you could potentially use them hundreds or even thousands of times.  The Parallel Falchion in particular has really good stats for a weapon you pretty much acquire mid-game and is also unbreakable; it's pretty much just as powerful as Marth's Falchion in the DS remakes.

What I'm essentially saying is because of certain exploitable gimmicks, Awakening's durability system is the least balanced in the series, which is why it's particularly my least favorite durability system.  In truth, I just don't like durability, and if you play the game with minimal grinding you're very unlikely to break it that much, but still... the fact that it's exploitable in the first place is entirely a unique trait of Awakening.

Also, what Shoblongo said.  You can't really buy brave weapons in most of the games.  Nor can you get multiple Mercuriuses, Parthias, or Gradivuses.

Fair enough (though Chrom's Falchion isn't that great until right at the end). I also want to point out that not everyone could learn Armsthrift. 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

Because Armsthrift exists, which is something unique to Awakening.  No game before Awakening gave units the ability to slow down or outright halt the process of a weapon's degradation, and it definitely is a broken skill if used right.

Also, the majority of infinite-use weapons before Awakening (and aside from games where durability doesn't exist) were late-game weapons, and thus it didn't really matter how much you could use them anyway since you wouldn't be fighting as many enemies.  Falchion and the Parallel Falchion are both weapons you acquire pretty much immediately in Awakening, so you could potentially use them hundreds or even thousands of times.  The Parallel Falchion in particular has really good stats for a weapon you pretty much acquire mid-game and is also unbreakable; it's pretty much just as powerful as Marth's Falchion in the DS remakes.

What I'm essentially saying is because of certain exploitable gimmicks, Awakening's durability system is the least balanced in the series, which is why it's particularly my least favorite durability system.  In truth, I just don't like durability, and if you play the game with minimal grinding you're very unlikely to break it that much, but still... the fact that it's exploitable in the first place is entirely a unique trait of Awakening.

Also, what Shoblongo said.  You can't really buy brave weapons in most of the games.  Nor can you get multiple Mercuriuses, Parthias, or Gradivuses.

You gotta admit, though, most units that had Armsthrift access didn't exactly have the luck stats to make it work consistently... Also, getting extra regalia meant taking on a rather difficult DLC chapter. Said chapter was also the only way to get Excalibur and Hauteclere without going into Double Duel - the former in particular requires you to take on THAT.