Is Thracia 776 really good?

[DarkMage73]

This game gives me nostalgia despite not having played it in its time, and it hurts me to have to throw shit, so let's face the problems of this game, the "hardcore" players of the saga usually love this game for its "good difficulty" and they say that the difficulty depends more on the maps than the enemies, but I remember the frustrating part of the initial game where Leaf is captured and they throw at you several enemies in a fog of war and there is no jeigan to take several strokes, and you need to be lucky in order to save Asvel from the enemies before he got killed,a and if you lose Lara or the lockpicks you will get stuck with no way to beat the chapter,  proving what badly done the game is. Now with the mechanics,It is very tedious to capture enemies to get objects, plus it requires powerful characters to do so because it takes a lot of skill and strength, and the stats only reach 20, depending on special weapons to get better stats than the enemies'. The only thing I liked was the fatigue to use other characters from the great list of playable characters, I also liked the character designs that looks better than the Holy War ones. Regarding the story, It is is boring and cliche even by the standards of FE, It is like "I am the prince and I must defeat the bad evil empire" and so on throughout the game. The game can be a total hell if you don´t have a guide, let alone losing all units by escaping with Leaf first as the game does´nt warn you about that. What do you think? Was FE5 actually good?

Edited January 24, 2018 by Joseph

[Slumber]

I've never had a problem keeping Asvel alive. He's always at Ced's, a one-man-army, back, he doesn't die in one hit(It's also pretty hard for him to even get hit when he's next to Ced) from any of the enemies in his recruitment chapter, he slowly moves towards your party as Ced carves through everything, and he has ample healing items. It's usually pretty easy to not only get Asvel, but also rescue all of the prisoners and let him and Ced clear out all of the enemies in that hallway without much difficulty.

I'm also pretty sure there are other ways to get through those chapters without lockpicks. As far as I know, the only chapter that actually has an unwinnable situation is the final chapter, since you need some means to open the doors there, and there aren't any ways to open them without bringing items beforehand, which was an oversight on the design team.

You're not supposed to capture everyone. You just supposed to capture when you need something, there are units who are designed as capture bots(Dagdar and Marty early game, with damn near every physical fighter having 20 BLD at mid/end-game), and the only time the game puts a boss that has stats too high to capture that you NEED to capture in your way is chapter 8. And that's more of the game using its own mechanics to give the gaiden requirements a turn limit, since it only becomes impossible to capture Rumei once he mounts on turn 16(Also notice how the game gives you back one of the capture bots on this chapter).

If you don't like it, it's fine. But I think you're blaming some things that really aren't that bad. The game has plenty to complain about. Most people would complain about Fatigue before the things you listed, but to each his own, I guess.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Slumber

[Dandy Druid]

It has its problems, but it did a lot of things right and finalized the formula of FE. The cast is good, and it does provide a good challenge. However, it does seem like for some chapters, there's really only one way to clear it/proceed with it. 

I mean, if you lose Lara though, I see that more as the fault of the player than the game though. You're given 2 others units to protect Lara while she's doing locks. Even IF she does fall in battle to enemies that would most likely capture her, you still have Lifis for that portion of the game.

[Jedi]

Your problems listed as these 2 have noted are very easily avoidable.

[Jingle Jangle]

I started playing the game a while ago, so I can't give my thoughts yet. Maybe in a couple weeks.

[UNLEASH IT]

The core gameplay is decent, but it's bogged down by many fundamentally awful game design decisions. A remake would do it a lot of good.

[Caster]

I like aspects of it. I don't really care for the game itself, in my opinion, it's too muddled down by clunky and bad decisions to be very good at all.

But there are a couple aspects of it that I think would work well if they were improved.

[Armagon]

See, the story is pretty good but it's dragged down by shitty gameplay (but that's Jugdral in general).

However, I at least appreciate the game for adding more victory conditions that aren't seize, rout, or kill commander.

[Shadow Mir]

My opinion pretty much lines up with Sophie's - it's dragged down by fundamentally bad design choices, but that's Jugdral for you. So no, I wouldn't say it's good.

[DarkMage73]

12 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

My opinion pretty much lines up with Sophie's - it's dragged down by fundamentally bad design choices, but that's Jugdral for you. So no, I wouldn't say it's good.

 

13 hours ago, Armagon said:

See, the story is pretty good but it's dragged down by shitty gameplay (but that's Jugdral in general).

However, I at least appreciate the game for adding more victory conditions that aren't seize, rout, or kill commander.

Do you think Holy War has a shitty gameplay? It has its issues but I don't think it is that bad

[Armagon]

9 minutes ago, Joseph said:

 

Do you think Holy War has a shitty gameplay? It has its issues but I don't think it is that bad

Holy War has the worst gameplay in the entire series but i don't feel like going into that right now. 

[DarkMage73]

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Holy War has the worst gameplay in the entire series but i don't feel like going into that right now. 

Worst gameplay?! It is far better than Awakening and Dates

[Shadow Mir]

54 minutes ago, Joseph said:

 

Do you think Holy War has a shitty gameplay? It has its issues but I don't think it is that bad

Of course I do. Hell, I agree with Armagon that it has the worst gameplay of any FE by far.

30 minutes ago, Joseph said:

Worst gameplay?! It is far better than Awakening and Dates

I VERY strongly disagree - they don't have bloated maps that make them a massive slog to play, as well as numerous obnoxious and frustrating mechanics.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Thracia 776 has the most introductions of mechanics of all FE games (defend + escape missions, capturing, fatigue, thief staff...), even if some of them really need improvents.

I honour only the ideas already. It'd be my favorite FE game, if all mechanics would be executed well. Still I really enjoy this game.

Saying FE13 has better gameplay than FE4 is the typical statement of all people who are annoyed by FE4's large maps. Gameplaywise it's way more complex than FE13, whose game mechanics are reduced to a minimum.

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by 豊聡耳 神子

[DarkMage73]

11 minutes ago, 豊聡耳 神子 said:

Thracia 776 has the most introductions of mechanics of all FE games (defend + escape missions, capturing, fatigue, thief staff...), even if some of them really need improvents.

I honour only the ideas already. It'd be my favorite FE game, if all mechanics would be executed well. Still I really enjoy this game.

Saying FE13 has better gameplay than FE4 is the typical statement of all people who are annoyed by FE4's large maps. Gameplaywise it's way more complex than FE13, whose game mechanics are reduced to a minimum.

Agreed, I also did'nt like the FE4 large maps at first, but once you get used to it, it becomes enjoyable to play. Also,  I hate the maps and most mechanics of Dates and Awakening, especially the reclass and skill system based on annoying grinding.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Joseph

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I don't find it justified to merge all FE14 parts since they offer a different difficulty.

Conquest has overall a good map design imo and grinding is disabled here.

Also mission objectives like defend and escape and turn limited missions return.

The only real similarity of FE13 and 14 is the support system. Gameplaywise they're quite different (depending on which FE14 part you play).

 

[DarkMage73]

2 hours ago, 豊聡耳 神子 said:

I don't find it justified to merge all FE14 parts since they offer a different difficulty.

Conquest has overall a good map design imo and grinding is disabled here.

Also mission objectives like defend and escape and turn limited missions return.

The only real similarity of FE13 and 14 is the support system. Gameplaywise they're quite different (depending on which FE14 part you play).

 

I know Conquest has better maps and difficulty, but you can still grind with those bad DLC´s and there is still that tedious reclass and skill system and regarding the rest of the game,  Birthright is even worse than Awakening, and Revelations maps are outright AWFUL and you have to pay 20 bucks for it! and that is without regarding the even more HORRIBLE characters, designs, plot and supports. I liked Awakening a bit, but I think Dates is the worst thing that has happened to the series

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, 豊聡耳 神子 said:

Saying FE13 has better gameplay than FE4 is the typical statement of all people who are annoyed by FE4's large maps. Gameplaywise it's way more complex than FE13, whose game mechanics are reduced to a minimum.

That's a very, very, VERY nice way to put it. It's as though you fail to consider that the complexity of the mechanics can be just as big a turn-off as the maps themselves... Some of the stuff about FE4 that bothers me, aside from the maps, is...

• Lack of trading
• Related to the above, the pawn shop system
• Individual money system
• related to the above, the limited way of transferring money between units
• The lack of balance between weapon types (and units in general)

4 hours ago, Joseph said:

Agreed, I also did'nt like the FE4 large maps at first, but once you get used to it, it becomes enjoyable to play. Also,  I hate the maps and most mechanics of Dates and Awakening, especially the reclass and skill system based on annoying grinding.

I would be extremely hesitant to say that the maps are "enjoyable" when literally every map falls victim to the same fundamental flaws... Giant maps on that scale just do not work in a game series where either a single mistake or bad RNG can permanently kill a unit. And some of them (chapters 2, 4, and 7 stand out in particular) are really bad due to either being heavy on backtracking or terrain abuse.

1 hour ago, Joseph said:

I know Conquest has better maps and difficulty, but you can still grind with those bad DLC´s and there is still that tedious reclass and skill system and regarding the rest of the game,  Birthright is even worse than Awakening, and Revelations maps are outright AWFUL and you have to pay 20 bucks for it! and that is without regarding the even more HORRIBLE characters, designs, plot and supports. I liked Awakening a bit, but I think Dates is the worst thing that has happened to the series

Funny you say that, because the reclass and skill systems were both improved from Awakening. Also, it's FATES. Get it right, damn it. And I dare say that FE4's maps manage to be EVEN WORSE than those of Revelation due to the design.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Slumber]

17 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

My opinion pretty much lines up with Sophie's - it's dragged down by fundamentally bad design choices, but that's Jugdral for you. So no, I wouldn't say it's good.

Regular reminder that Levant hasn't actually played Fire Emblem 5.

[Shadow Mir]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Regular reminder that Levant hasn't actually played Fire Emblem 5.

What's that matter when I can point out what's clearly and objectively wrong with the game without needing to play it??

Edited January 25, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Armagon]

4 hours ago, Joseph said:

Worst gameplay?! It is far better than Awakening and Dates

Nah. I mean, Awakening's gameplay is pretty bad but i'd still rather prefer it over FE4. Also, Fates: Conquest is regarded to have the best gameplay in the series. Birthright and Revelation are whatever but Conquest has the best gameplay.

4 hours ago, 豊聡耳 神子 said:

Saying FE13 has better gameplay than FE4 is the typical statement of all people who are annoyed by FE4's large maps. Gameplaywise it's way more complex than FE13, whose game mechanics are reduced to a minimum.

See, here's the thing, if it was just the big maps that were the issue, i wouldn't be as harsh on the gameplay as i currently am. But FE4's gameplay problems go beyond the big maps. The big maps end up causing most of the problems.

• The big maps make it a slog to get from one place to the next
• The size of the maps directly affects unit balance, and in a bad way. Any unit that has a mount is automatically better than the ones who don't. There are other Horse Emblem FEs out there, but nowhere near the extent of FE4. 
• Not having a mount in this game means that you'll always reach the battle late. By the time you do, all of your horse buddies will have already taken care of the enemy.
• Mounts aren't the only balancing issues. Having Holy Blood and/or Pursuit makes you a better unit than those who don't. Locking doubling behind a skill was stupid btw.
• Combine Holy Blood and Mounted units and you get the game's alternative title: Horse Emblem: Genealogy of the Magic Plot Armor.
• Trading is removed in favor the tedious Pawn Shop. Want to trade? Backtrack to a castle, sell the item, then backtrack to the main group. Fun game design, amirite?
• Promoting level requirement is 20 instead of the usual 10 (but that's one of the more tame issues)
• The maps are empty half the time so you're spending 5-7 turns doing nothing but "move. wait. end turn".
• If you want to save villages completely intact, you have to rush like a madman.

Also, complexity =/= good game design.

1 hour ago, Joseph said:

I know Conquest has better maps and difficulty, but you can still grind with those bad DLC´s and there is still that tedious reclass and skill system

Key word: DLC. A.k.a optional content. Reclassing is also optional. Skills work mostly the same way as they did in FE4, so what the actual hell are you talking about?

 

1 hour ago, Joseph said:

HORRIBLE characters, designs, plot and supports

Yeah, that's entirely subjective and has no effect on the gameplay (well, Supports do but not from a writing standpoint).

Anyway, this thread was about Thracia. Let's not get too off topic.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Armagon

[Von Ithipathachai]

3 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

What's that matter when I can point out what's clearly and objectively wrong with the game without needing to play it??

You're not considered credible because you haven't experienced it firsthand.

[Shadow Mir]

Just now, Von Ithipathachai said:

You're not considered credible because you haven't experienced it firsthand.

Why should I care? I don't care that I haven't played it when there's stuff that prevents me from wanting to have anything to do with the game in the first place (healing staves being able to miss is inexcusably bad game design).

[Slumber]

4 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

What's that matter when I can point out what's clearly and objectively wrong with the game without needing to play it??

Same reason you can't critique music without listening to it, critique a movie without seeing it, or critique a book without reading it.

[Shadow Mir]

21 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Same reason you can't critique music without listening to it, critique a movie without seeing it, or critique a book without reading it.

Because it's not like YouTube exists, right?