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Just a grumbling female player...


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34 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

It's sad, but true, and I personally blame Heroes and Warriors for that, as I mentioned. Her Supports in Warriors get downright alarming on quite a few if not almost all of them, mostly because you can't tell if she's teasing or being serious and you inevitably end up with a sneaking suspicion she's serious about everything she says - her Sakura and Chrom Supports are especially disturbing viewed that way.

Oh, I don't try to say it's much lower than people say - I think just looks is a vast majority(as in 90+%), actually - I just get kind of tired of people talking in absolutes and acting like every Camilla fan is only in it for the boobs when that's obviously almost impossible, particularly in such a large fanbase as Fire Emblem's(if you tried to say an absolute like that about, say, Chief Ruby from Conception 2, for example, I would be less inclined to argue with you because the chances of it being true are higher given the smaller fanbase among other things). Also see my reply below.

In my case, my issue is more that everywhere outside Serenes I've said I like Camilla - especially if it's during a discussion of favorite Fates Sibling - everyone immediately attempted to dogpile me with insults and comments about how my only reason for liking her was the boobs or I bet you have a thing for incest(which, as we all know, is a completely ridiculous argument in this context since Camilla+Corrin isn't even technically incest) or, best of all, why haven't I played Senran Kagura yet when it would clearly be my kind of game? This kind of stuff has in the end managed to end up making me a touch bitter towards the entire concept of waifus and fanservice in general and was also why I kept as quiet as possible during the Voting Gauntlet that ended up with Camilla beating Lyn once Roy got ousted. Yes, there are instances where the design/fanservice aspect of a character is a larger factor in what I like about them or what initially attracts me to them, I'll admit that to anyone who asks or attempts to act like I'm pretending to have a holier-than-thou attitude, and I try to stay sane and reasonable when everyone talks trash about Camilla fans, but the bitter still gets the better of me at times, and I'm grateful you guys have been better about it than I initially expected upon first joining.

I've had a couple drinks, so I'm in a more open mood than usual, and I'll just go out and say it: I'm in it just for the boobs.  I also would like nothing more than to have a sexy sister who isn't blood-related that smothers me in affection and lets me lay in her lap after a long day.

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4 minutes ago, DarkLordIvy said:

There are not any male characters that are like those two. The thing is, there really isn’t a way to make a male version of a fanservise character like Camilla or Loki because the male body has not been and is not sexualized the way the female body is. 

I mean they technically could, but they would have to be VERY obvious about it, like in an M-rated kind of way. Female characters can just walk around with their boobs hanging out and it will automatically be considered sexy, whereas a shirtless guy won't have the same effect. So they'd have to punch it up in some way.

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18 minutes ago, Sproutling said:

Probably because ever since I can remember, female characters in video games are the fast lightweights whereas the men are slow tanks.

This is a myth.  A lot of the slow tank male characters in Heroes (e.g. Seth, Ephraim, Ike, etc) were just good at everything in their main games, and Heroes was like "well, they have dicks, so why don't we make them conform to the standard male model".

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1 minute ago, Sproutling said:

I mean they technically could, but they would have to be VERY obvious about it, like in an M-rated kind of way. Female characters can just walk around with their boobs hanging out and it will automatically be considered sexy, whereas a shirtless guy won't have the same effect. So they'd have to punch it up in some way.

The best they could do on top of shirt removal would be to show off some posterior, a codpiece as suggestive and large as anything, and plenty of suggestive symbols that aren't the things they're supposed to be all over the outfit. So loads of giant swords and spear images.

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23 minutes ago, bbqbert said:

Hahaha, I'm mostly joking. I like pretty units for sure, and I don't mind fanservice. I don't even really dislike that there is so much fanservice in this game because I know that's what gacha are for--I just wish there was more attention given to female players, too. Such as useful male units that aren't sitting at the lowest end of the tier list. Sorry if I'm being confusing?

If you're looking at strictly tier 20 arena, then maybe.  But for the rest of the content?  Quad-attack Lukas here I come!

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Are you trying to be a homewrecker?

-Said the person who'd want to break Tiz from Agnes in the Bravely games. And I'd consider Pent from Louise- except I like Louise enough not to.

Dorcas is who you're in it for the long haul with, not the quick passion. His homespun loyalty and devotion can be sexy in the right light though.

Dorcas' biggest turn-off, IMO, is that he's married.  I'm weak to redheads, 'k? :P:

11 minutes ago, Lushen said:

To be fair I think there's a difference between having a "cute" unit and having a unit that looks like a prostitute.  I don't think there's a male equivalent of units like Camilla and Loki, but I could be wrong as I haven't really played the newer ones.

I find a well-dressed man with a good personality to be far sexier than a half-dressed stud.  But I'm a bit weird when it comes to attractiveness!

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14 minutes ago, DarkLordIvy said:

There are not any male characters that are like those two. The thing is, there really isn’t a way to make a male version of a fanservise character like Camilla or Loki because the male body has not been and is not sexualized the way the female body is. 

There are plenty of ways to sexualize male characters with armor/clothing.  There are a ton of Skyrim mods that do so.  It really has nothing to do with having revealing clothing but rather how it reveals the skin.  For example if Camilla was in a swimsuit it would not be half as sexualized as she is in her succubus armor.  Males can wear succubus armor as well and it has the same effect.

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I find a well-dressed man with a good personality to be far sexier than a half-dressed stud.  But I'm a bit weird when it comes to attractiveness!

I don't think that's weird I think that's normal.  And the same goes for me with females.  I don't find females in succubus armor sexy, I find it creepy.  Or at least, it should be normal :)

Edited by Lushen
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8 minutes ago, bbqbert said:

I posted a follow-up comment in response to someone else: the tier list is the arena/skill inheritance list at Gamepedia, currently updated including the latest GHB. Reinhardt sits cheerfully at rank S now.

Also, I don't necessarily think that it needs to be 50/50--it is fairly clear that this game is geared towards a male audience. However, the lack of useful male units is painfully obvious. There are a handful, but most male units are released as mediocre, low tier units that add little value to the game, especially if one plays competitively. Not all male players would hate male units, either--Ike was the most popularly rated character in CYL if you counted both his variations--he would have beat even Lyn. So they are targeting a very specific male audience.

And yes, I have sent plenty of feedback but in my desire not to seem like a whiner, I try to hold back now because I think it seems they aren't listening anyhow. Oh well.

Sorry, I must've missed your response in my skimming! And, if Reinhardt isn't S+ ranked, I'd regard their rankings with a certain amount of credulity. But that's beside the point!

Toward your second paragraph, I agree that there's a lack of great male units. But there are a decent number of top notch male units, more so than some other gacha games. Beyond that, though, this is a game that, like any game, wants to bring in the money. So, while your OP listed some great statistics, I am curious about some other statistics, such as the male-to-female ratio of players in comparison to the number of characters introduced that appeal to each demographic. If, for example, males are 70% of the demographic that plays the game, then it seems right that 70% of the characters should appeal to them. But, as far as I know, we don't have access to statistics like those, which makes commentary on this sort of thing pretty difficult.

And, with respect to your last paragraph, I definitely understand you not wanting to come across as a whiner. However, I do think there's a hunger for more good male units, so simply suggesting to others on here that they can provide feedback asking for that could go a long way. If you're a lone voice, it's hard to be heard--but I really don't think you should be alone in that. I think plenty on here would support you. I would, at least.

3 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Thanks, I do what I can.

You're wonderful. :D

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4 minutes ago, Lushen said:

There are plenty of ways to sexualize male characters with armor/clothing.  There are a ton of Skyrim mods that do so.  It really has nothing to do with having revealing clothing but rather how it reveals the skin.  For example if Camilla was in a swimsuit it would not be half as sexualized as she is in her succubus armor.  Males can wear succubus armor as well and it has the same effect.

I don't think that's weird I think that's normal.  And the same goes for me with females.  I don't find females in succubus armor sexy, I find it creepy.

It all comes down to jawline; this why Dolph and Arnold are fitness icons, why Mussolini came to power, etc...

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11 minutes ago, Refa said:

This is a myth.  A lot of the slow tank male characters in Heroes (e.g. Seth, Ephraim, Ike, etc) were just good at everything in their main games, and Heroes was like "well, they have dicks, so why don't we make them conform to the standard male model".

It's not a myth. Just because those specific characters weren't that way in their own games doesn't mean that in video games IN GENERAL, that's the way things tend to be. You even said that there was a "standard male model."

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I am just not into sexual fanservice at all. I appreciate good-looking characters, but I don't enjoy looking at boobs or butt or pecs or groin. Just give me characters I like with good art, that's all the fanservice I need.

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1 minute ago, eclipse said:

I'm weak to redheads, 'k? :P:

Weak to redheads. I get it. And I guess most greenheads are in nonsexual ways cute? (I agree on Lugh and Raigh, also Tormod while on the topic.)

 

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

I find a well-dressed man with a good personality to be far sexier than a half-dressed stud.  But I'm a bit weird when it comes to attractiveness!

No, class can have its appeal over showing a lot of ass. Tastefulness and real emotional and normal bonding and appearances can make intimacy more sacred, and the moments of undress more meaningful too, insofar as they are actually necessary. 

And then there is the liking to sometimes to just leave stuff to the imagination. 

I try not to ruin things for myself with too much looking at too much skin too much of the time. It's why I had a bit of an issue here on the Heroes board when someone went around with a swimsuit!Ryoma as their avi. I wanted to preserve the specialness of it and not glance at it too much, but I didn't want to impose on the avi possessor by saying anything at all. And thats why I'm holding off on a swimsuit!Touma request until June 21st.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

It all comes down to jawline; this why Dolph and Arnold are fitness icons, why Mussolini came to power, etc...

I actually once saw something on "History" Channel suggesting a square jaw = strength and leadership and good things. And hence George Washington stuffed his mouth with cotton and those evil false teeth when posing for paintings. I think it was the death masks show.

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3 minutes ago, Sproutling said:

It's not a myth. Just because those specific characters weren't that way in their own games doesn't mean that in video games IN GENERAL, that's the way things tend to be. You even said that there was a "standard male model."

I thought you were talking about FE games, not video games in general; it's definitely wrong in the later case, don't know where you got that impression at all.  For most games, females are magic users whereas males are physical users; speed has nothing to do w/the equation, and they both tank their respective types better.  The standard male model refers to how FEH does stat distribution for its male characters, not any other video games.

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14 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

It all comes down to jawline; this why Dolph and Arnold are fitness icons, why Mussolini came to power, etc...

I never knew this was one of the peak faces of fitness:

Spoiler

File:DolphFE1.png

Though seriously, Dolph Lundgren (that was who you were actually referring to right?) really wasn't the first guy that came to my mind there and it wouldn't surprise me if the same happened to at least one other person here.

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1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Weak to redheads. I get it. And I guess most greenheads are in nonsexual ways cute? (I agree on Lugh and Raigh, also Tormod while on the topic.)

Depends on age/personality/other things.  I'd be weak in the knees if Stefan flirted with me!  Meanwhile, if Raigh tried, I'd be majorly weirded out.

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

No, class can have its appeal over showing a lot of ass. Tastefulness and real emotional and normal bonding and appearances can make intimacy more sacred, and the moments of undress more meaningful too, insofar as they are actually necessary. 

And then there is the liking to sometimes to just leave stuff to the imagination. 

I try not to ruin things for myself with too much looking at too much skin too much of the time. It's why I had a bit of an issue here on the Heroes board when someone went around with a swimsuit!Ryoma as their avi. I wanted to preserve the specialness of it and not glance at it too much, but I didn't want to impose on the avi possessor by saying anything at all. And thats why I'm holding off on a swimsuit!Touma request until June 21st.

. . .yeah, I like leaving things to my imagination.  Guess that's why I'm a bit uncomfortable around the swimsuit units.

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2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I am just not into sexual fanservice at all. I appreciate good-looking characters, but I don't enjoy looking at boobs or butt or pecs or groin. Just give me characters I like with good art, that's all the fanservice I need.

Lmao, nobody plays Fire Emblem for any of those...we play for the THIGHS.  Lyn's thighs are heaven-sent.  Celine wrote that there is nothing more aristocratic than shapely legs.

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I actually once saw something on "History" Channel suggesting a square jaw = strength and leadership and good things. And hence George Washington stuffed his mouth with cotton and those evil false teeth when posing for paintings. I think it was the death masks show.

Absolutely agree with HC's claim.  Lol at George Washington, you should immediately be deemed unfit for office if you have an underbite, it decreases morale.

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Just now, Sunwoo said:

I am just not into sexual fanservice at all. I appreciate good-looking characters, but I don't enjoy looking at boobs or butt or pecs or groin. Just give me characters I like with good art, that's all the fanservice I need.

I share this sentiment. I also believe that the games would be overall more popular and acclaimed if they stopped with the fanservice altogether and brought in better writers. These are industry wide problems though, sadly.

@bbqbert I'd totally make Raigh work on a core T20 Arena team if it weren't for precious feathers and orbs.

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2 minutes ago, Johann said:

I share this sentiment. I also believe that the games would be overall more popular and acclaimed if they stopped with the fanservice altogether and brought in better writers. These are industry wide problems though, sadly.

@bbqbert I'd totally make Raigh work on a core T20 Arena team if it weren't for precious feathers and orbs.

Honestly, I agree with all such sentiment~

And hooooo boy... Do you honestly think he'd function? Like I've thought about it because I've considered 40+10-ing all of the FE6 units... but he just seems... so... bad. How would you build him to make him function??

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2 minutes ago, Johann said:

I share this sentiment. I also believe that the games would be overall more popular and acclaimed if they stopped with the fanservice altogether and brought in better writers. These are industry wide problems though, sadly.

@bbqbert I'd totally make Raigh work on a core T20 Arena team if it weren't for precious feathers and orbs.

More acclaimed maybe. But you're very idealistic if you think the first part is true.

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5 minutes ago, bbqbert said:

Honestly, I agree with all such sentiment~

And hooooo boy... Do you honestly think he'd function? Like I've thought about it because I've considered 40+10-ing all of the FE6 units... but he just seems... so... bad. How would you build him to make him function??

Depends on what you need, really.

+Atk gives him decent attack power.  +Spd makes him a slightly slower Tharja.  I want to see him in action with -owl and Atk/Res bond, along with Spurs.

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1 minute ago, bbqbert said:

Honestly, I agree with all such sentiment~

And hooooo boy... Do you honestly think he'd function? Like I've thought about it because I've considered 40+10-ing all of the FE6 units... but he just seems... so... bad. How would you build him to make him function??

I should probably say that I completely disregard tier lists and other conventional wisdom of the meta. Anyway, I haven't put any thought into it, but I'd be pretty satisfied using +atk or spd/-def or hp, Keen Rauðrwolf+ (negate cavalry or +Spd), Fury, Glimmer, and then I'd probably try out a few different skills like Vantage or whatever and see how they perform. He'd be fine to kill most horses, including Lyn (unless enemy phase with Brave Bow) and Reinhardt (player phase only) without buffs, as well as a good amount of greens, armors, etc.

1 minute ago, UNLEASH IT said:

More acclaimed maybe. But you're very idealistic if you think the first part is true.

I firmly believe that among the total number of players and potential players, the number of people turned off by fanservice vastly outnumber the people who are willing to spend extra money because of fanservice.

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The best they could do on top of shirt removal would be to show off some posterior, a codpiece as suggestive and large as anything, and plenty of suggestive symbols that aren't the things they're supposed to be all over the outfit. So loads of giant swords and spear images.

I'd like to think the male equivalent of fanservice would be either a handsome, nihilistic antihero or a hilarious bodybuilder (ex. Ahhnold in Pumping Iron).  But what do I know.

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Hawkeye might not be fan-service but I'd say there have been a few misguided attempts elsewhere. Kaze's inexplicable boob window. Or Kaden's plunging J.Lo-esque neckline. It comes off looking pretty goofy instead but hey, there was an attempt. :P Chrom's enmity towards sleeves is a bit suspicious too.

(And I did marry Kaze so I guess it worked?)

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Looking at my 5* characters, not including repeats and skill fodder, I have 27 males and 38 females. I've been playing FE since Blazing Sword so I'm more used to male slanted games and have many favorites (Rath and Canas, come home). As long as a character has good art and viable stats, I'll build them.

The biggest problem to me is that they're turning to non-seasonal alts (CYL is player chosen so it gets a pass) really early in the game's life. A lot of male characters are going to get passed over (rest in peace Knoll) so IS can keep pumping out marketable female characters. It's sometimes not even necessary, as some people noted. The recent SS banner had amazing star power with Myrrh and L'arachel. They didn't need Eirikalter to sell that banner but they did.

Minor characters available at launch might not be the greatest, but at least they got in the game. I like to think that playing as one's favorites is a major appeal to this game.

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