Just a grumbling female player...

[Integrity]

15 hours ago, Nowi's Husband said:

I'm glad you can marry Nowi and her design is like that, us lolicons deserve to be catered to just as others are, our money is just as good.  Fictional lolis are a safe outlet for our desires without any real children being hurt.

i'm late to the party because i had a rough week of work but what the fuck

[Nowi's Husband]

31 minutes ago, Johann said:

See, it's not totally fine, and it's normalizing the idea that it's fine. Take a moment to consider an alternative:

• Imagine if Nowi were a boy character, wearing a tight little speedo.
• Imagine if this boy version of Nowi could get married to an adult and have chidren.
• Imagine if this boy version of Nowi could get romantically involved with an adult male.

If you are uncomfortable with any of these alternatives, think about why. The only thing different here from actual Nowi is gender and sexual orientation. If you are only bothered by Nowi under the alternatives I presented, then you should realize the double standards you've been conditioned to accept.

As males, it's easier for us to not be bothered by male fanservice because we are not routinely objectified, and the way society treats us regarding sexuality is completely different.

None of that bothers me in any way, I don't have a problem with shota characters even if it's not my preference.  If someone wants to enjoy that material I support it, it's not like a real little boy is being targeted.  I'm not a hypocrite using double standards and I don't judge anyone for what fantasies they enjoy.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Nowi's Husband

[Integrity]

is this what happens when i'm not around

[Baldrick]

Oh shit Integrity is back, quick hide the smut! I don't want to go to jail!

A quick note; sexualisation isn't limited to exposed skin and physical attributes. There's also a power aspect; modern FE is very heavy on objectification and metaphorically sucking the player off. Tharja is a prime example of both from when she was first introduced.

[Nowi's Husband]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The ideal solution is either philanderize everyone, no one, or in equal proportion. Provided the argument that sexualizing a female does more harm to perceptions of females than the sexualization of a male does to perceptions of a male. Which is well... arguable!

Hawkeye isn't typically considered sexualized though, even if he has some grounds for being called this. Hawkeye had a wife he loved who died and daughter he cares for, family should be a major turnoff from sexiness. He has a duty as Guardian of Nabata which he takes very seriously. His personality is dull, stoic, simple, in no way is he cutesy, stalker, seductress, or tragically traumatized to be sexual and obsessive in personality. Although a strong stoic type you could make the case is fanservicey by male standards, while the aforementioned personalities of Nowi, Tharja, Loki, and Camilla, wouldn't work on a male and still be seen as sexy. Going back to ideas as old as time as women being weak and men strong and women needing to depend on them.

His attire is also semi-justifiable by the fact he lives in a desert, which is hot and thus less clothing is better. This clothing argument falls to pieces when you consider actual desert dwellers beyond Pharaonic Egypt likes more wearing actual clothing, layers of clothing. Because: it helps reduce dehydration due to sweat evaporation, avoid sunburns, and keeps the desert sand blowing in the unending winds from lashing against your body like sandpaper meets a cat o' nine tails. Either way, his outfit has no bits that implicitly say "Why is this like this? Fanservice!".

If you wanted a case where less clothing is realistic, jungles and tropical islands are just as hot as deserts, without the painful sand and concerns of water loss. Now when are we going to start getting male and female FE Amazonians?

And for me, Odin isn't sexualized, he's just a complete clown in an absurd and absurdly ugly outfit which is more of a turnoff than a lighter for me. If FE had a Jester class, Odin would belong in it perfect as is, and the only jester anywhere near sexy I've ever seen is in a Bolshoi performance of Swan Lake (their choreography stole the show- better than the Odette I daresay, the male Evil Genius was great too).

Well I don't have the perspective of someone into guys so that's why I'm off base here, could you explain what would be male fanservice?  Examples in FE?

[Sproutling]

Maybe I just missed it, but I'm surprised that there is more discussion going on about Nowi than someone like Elise, who looks and acts just like a 10-year-old little girl and doesn't have the excuse of being an old dragon. The "adult that you technically are" line from Leo wasn't even in the Japanese version of Fates anywhere from what I remember, so I'm pretty sure she's supposed to be a literal kid. A kid that can get married to adult men (including a man she thought of as her brother for most or all of her short lifetime) and even get pregnant...so I suppose regardless of how she acts, she apparently has at least hit puberty. Honestly, even talking about this is pretty gross.

Nowi is one thing, I've never liked the "but she's actually 1000 years old!" excuse in Japanese media but I can let it slide. But Elise and Sakura are in a completely different ballpark, and it's something that I genuinely don't want Fire Emblem to touch upon ever again.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Sproutling
typo

[Johann]

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I have several issues with this.

1. It's not at all clear how you're defining sexualized vs non-sexualized characters, but if you cast the net such that Camilla, Tharja, and Loki qualify (and the other popular FE females do not), then it's obvious that "sexualized" characters are far fewer in number than non-sexualized and thus them taking up 3 of the top 10 spots may in fact counter the very point you're trying to make. Camilla or Tharja is likely the most popular FE character who isn't a lord/main character. (unless you actually believe it's Veronica)

2. If sexualized female characters are in fact not automatically more popular just because they're sexualized (a statement I would, broadly, agree with), then it follows that some of these characters may be popular for other reasons. In particular, if people just went for sexualized characters, then we'd expect Aversa, arguably the most sexualised female character from the most popular FE, to do well in these things. She does not. Like it or not, Camilla's personality is a big part of her popularity. So is Tharja's (and indeed, she did very well in polls immediately after Awakening's release, back when her only appearance was actually relatively tame).

3. While I'm inclined to agree that sex sells may be a misconception for many things, including general video games... you're very naive if you think it's not a big part of gacha. Sexy characters are good at capturing the interests of players who can spend hundreds or even thousands chasing them. I don't say this to defend the practice; I think gacha has many problematic elements, and in general I think "well this helps sell things" isn't a good excuse for a bad idea. (Although I'm not personally opposed to a modest amount of sexualization, especially in a large cast, so long as the female cast feels reasonably empowered. Modern FE, Echoes aside, has done at least... reasonably well about this, although there is much room for improvement!)

Fair points, so let's break it down:

1) Whether or not these characters are sexualized varies by each appearance. Tharja and Camilla are consistently presented in the same way, with revealing clothing, obsessed with main character, and suggestive dialogue & body language. There are occasionally one-off problems with other characters, but with these two, it's done to the point where these aspects completely overshadow every other part of their character. Loki's not much of a character, having only been properly revealed for a few chapters and given a few chances for dialogue, so all we have is her art, which heavily emphasizes her body through clothing and position.

It's not to say that other female characters aren't sexualized (Aversa being a clear example), but that for the argument I was making, those three stood out. I should emphasize that I don't believe CYL is a solid metric for fan reception of characters. Votes are binary and you can't give a character negative votes. How much exposure a character gets will certainly help a character poll higher. Also, that Lucina and Lyn weren't in it this time around helps all other characters, so it's difficult to quantify the difference in popularity, particular for Loki who didn't exist last time.

2) These characters being popular for other reasons, like other parts of their character designs/personalities (Tharja's non-stalkery supports being mentioned earlier, I also like her dead-pan expressions), their stats/performance in battle, etc, is totally groovy. I addressed this a few posts ago; the criticism stems from sexualization and how these aspects have dominated these characters, at the expense of their other aspects.

3) It's not that it doesn't sell at all, it's that I think it turns more people off from the series than it draws in. Taken by itself, I don't think it's as significant as other factors (for instance, I personally pulled for Winter Tharja just so I could give Vengeful Fighter to Sheena). I guess you could poll around and ask people what their motivation was for spending money on orbs, and if they stopped after getting one or kept going to get multiple copies, but even still, that only speaks to people who are playing the game.

I'm glad you agree that there are serious problems with the gacha model and FE's representation. In my view, they should be focused on drawing in as many new players as they can (of various demographics) rather than bleeding core fans of hundreds or thousands of dollars. FE does have a balanced cast of great female characters (which really ought to be the norm anywhere else too), but every time they fuck it up, I worry that they won't learn their lesson.

1 hour ago, Nowi's Husband said:

None of that bothers me in any way, I don't have a problem with shota characters even if it's not my preference.  If someone wants to enjoy that material I support it, it's not like a real little boy is being targeted.  I'm not a hypocrite using double standards and I don't judge anyone for what fantasies they enjoy.

It's good to hear you don't employ a double standard, but it's still deeply problematic that you don't see the problem with these characters.
 

1 hour ago, Integrity said:

is this what happens when i'm not around

 

[Dark Holy Elf]

 

1 hour ago, Johann said:

It's not that it doesn't sell at all, it's that I think it turns more people off from the series than it draws in. Taken by itself, I don't think it's as significant as other factors (for instance, I personally pulled for Winter Tharja just so I could give Vengeful Fighter to Sheena). I guess you could poll around and ask people what their motivation was for spending money on orbs, and if they stopped after getting one or kept going to get multiple copies, but even still, that only speaks to people who are playing the game.

I'm glad you agree that there are serious problems with the gacha model and FE's representation. In my view, they should be focused on drawing in as many new players as they can (of various demographics) rather than bleeding core fans of hundreds or thousands of dollars. FE does have a balanced cast of great female characters (which really ought to be the norm anywhere else too), but every time they fuck it up, I worry that they won't learn their lesson.

I agree that heavy sexualization likely turns off as many players as it draws in. The problem with gacha here is the asymmetry. The median FEH player probably spends... I dunno. Some two-digit dollar figure per year on the game? (It might even be zero!) Thus, losing one of them isn't that big a deal. But if you can lure in someone to whale for a character because of an appealing design, you can make thousands of dollars from them, the equivalent of losing dozens of players who are turned off by it. So I do think from a "business success of FEH" standpoint, the sexualization may well make a certain amount of sense. Of course this is not necessarily optimum for the future of FE as a whole. I generally trust the people making business decisions to make ones which make sense (after all, it's their jobs on the lines - not ours here in the peanut gallery), but they can certainly be overly short-term-focused, and this seems like a case where that's possible.

 

FE having a cast of many female characters is definitely something I respect it for a lot. I feel like the fanbase doesn't give Awakening enough credit for moving towards gender parity; there are a few reasons that the game succeeded with a more diverse fanbase than previous FEs but I feel like giving both genders roughly equal time of day helped. Having higher numbers also lets you have a greater variety, and certainly Awakening and Fates feature a great diversity of personality in their female casts (whether you like them as individuals or not). It doesn't get everything perfect by any means (two of my personal beefs are that the games are extremely heteronormative, and that there's still a huge bias towards making the women conform to certain beauty/body shape standards, albeit not as egregious as it once was) but it's doing better than a lot of video game series I could name.

[Raven]

7 hours ago, Integrity said:

is this what happens when i'm not around

nothing to see here, just people discussing sexualisation of characters in fire emblem...for the nth time

[Cute Chao]

I just wish we had female armour again. They're even retroactively taking the trousers away from at least one older female character (Gwendy springs to mind - the oa I see of her from FE6 has trousers, now she has hot pants).

I know they have some females fully clothed, but it feels like we're getting fewer of them.

I wouldn't mind the fanservice so much if it

A) remained sensible in terms of armour (seriously, Camilla's armour annoys me so much, but Effie's also does - a strong, independent woman who only cares about training... and showing off those thighs)

B) wasn't shoved in my face - I didn't need that Camilla cutscene. That sort of thing is not necessary. Have the fanservice in places by all means, but at least make it option and not here is butt, here are boobs. Oh, there might be a character attached.

C) Didn't involve little kids. I don't care how 'old' she is. Nowi's outfit is awful and just uncomfortable to look at. I also don't like that they make much younger looking / sounding people able to marry and have kids... I do it because I'm a completionist, but really... leave kids to people who are at least legal in looks -.-

 

Funnily enough, I'd call myself a fanservice lover, but I love it at my leisure. I love Summer Xander, for instance - but wouldn't want to see that all the time in battle. I like his armoured form, too, and it makes sense. I don't get why so many people seem happy to have ridiculous outfits and fanservice all the time instead of in fun moderation. Beach episodes - yay. Missing armour - no!

Heck, my favourite character is Kent... no obvious fanservice there (although I wouldn't say no to a beach Kent, as much as he'd hate it xD... Rather have a groom Kent, though...)

[Water Mage]

One explation for the lack of male fanservice, is the japanese fanbase, particulary the male one. Most otakus in Japan(and when I say otaku, I mean it in the real meaning of the word, those shut-ins who lead unhealthy lives), are extremely possesive of their characters. If the object of their obssesion have an interaction with any male character, they will throw a fit. If there’s male fanservice, they will throw a fit. If the voice actress for the character has a boyfriend, they will throw a fit. Anything that interfere with their fantasies will piss off the fanbase and will make them give up on the series. The japanese fandom is that problematic. Think about it, why do you think so many japanese games with avatars, have the entire cast become obsessed with the avatar? 

When IS brought heavy fanservice to the series, it was going to stay in the series permanently. Because the japanese fans brought to the series because of the fanservice will leave if there’s no fanservice, and these type of fans tend to bring in a lot of money, so IS doesn’t want them to go away.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

Heck, my favourite character is Kent... no obvious fanservice there (although I wouldn't say no to a beach Kent, as much as he'd hate it xD... Rather have a groom Kent, though...)

The irony is that he is the most loyal rational knight on the surface, but come his supports, he can be a impassioned monster deep down. I would not call this rational:

Spoiler

Kent: Lady Lyndis.
Lyn: K-Kent?
Kent: There is something about which I must speak to you. If I may…
Lyn: I really should be going…
Kent: Please, listen!
Lyn: K-Kent! Unhand me!
Kent: I am sorry, but I cannot. If I let go your hand now, I would regret it for the rest of my life.
Lyn: What…?
Kent: Lady Lyndis. I would like to answer your question of the other day.
Lyn: …
Kent: I am here for you. Even were I not a knight, even were you not my lady. My heart would not change.
Lyn: Kent…
Kent: So, I hope that you will forgive me, should I continue to stay by your side.
Lyn: Yes, of course. And not as Lyndis, but as Lyn. Yes, Kent, stay by my side, always…

Does Fates even have implied premarital sex? Because Kent, later very apologetic for what happened, gets some between the B and A Supports with Fiora. Although he isn't totally sorry, since that ban on male-female interactions he and Fiora discussed in the B, well they drop the idea completely, Fiora just as naughtily willingly. And the baby came six months after the wedding, perfectly healthy and grown.

FarinaxKent has no such moments as Lyn and Fiora though. Not sure why. Kent still goes with his wife though wherever she takes him, instead of him dragging her around, which I like.

 

2 hours ago, Water Mage said:

One explation for the lack of male fanservice, is the japanese fanbase, particulary the male one. Most otakus in Japan(and when I say otaku, I mean it in the real meaning of the word, those shut-ins who lead unhealthy lives), are extremely possesive of their characters. If the object of their obssesion have an interaction with any male character, they will throw a fit. If there’s male fanservice, they will throw a fit. If the voice actress for the character has a boyfriend, they will throw a fit. Anything that interfere with their fantasies will piss off the fanbase and will make them give up on the series. The japanese fandom is that problematic. Think about it, why do you think so many japanese games with avatars, have the entire cast become obsessed with the avatar? 

Reminds me of something I heard once in an East Asian history class. The Professor assigned a book to a different class written in the 19-00s or 10s or 20s, wherein a young man takes a younger girl and turns her into his modern Western cultural ideal woman. She then ends up disappointing him or something somehow. The lesson? Western culture is bad and Japan should have none of it! Not sexualizing a girl like your personal object is very bad. IRRC, the professor said this idea of transforming a girl in your image goes back to the Tale of Genji, that thousand year old Japanese text sometimes considered the world's first novel.

This also reminds me of why some people, including myself, were a little disturbed by Barry's treatment of Mamori at times in TMS.

By no means am I condemning the Japanese nation/people/ethnicity/anything. Just want to make that clear.

 

8 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

FE having a cast of many female characters is definitely something I respect it for a lot. I feel like the fanbase doesn't give Awakening enough credit for moving towards gender parity; there are a few reasons that the game succeeded with a more diverse fanbase than previous FEs but I feel like giving both genders roughly equal time of day helped. Having higher numbers also lets you have a greater variety, and certainly Awakening and Fates feature a great diversity of personality in their female casts (whether you like them as individuals or not). It doesn't get everything perfect by any means (two of my personal beefs are that the games are extremely heteronormative, and that there's still a huge bias towards making the women conform to certain beauty/body shape standards, albeit not as egregious as it once was) but it's doing better than a lot of video game series I could name.

I think the gender balance of near absolute equality can be explained by baby making, and unlike FE4, IS didn't want to leave half the men bachelors. But this doesn't explain it completely and even if the gender balance was accidental in terms of progressiveness, it is still there and that is good. At least the roster isn't female dominated by virtue of being a harem dating sim.

Another issue- plot-wise, females still typically matter less than males some would argue, particularly on the villain side. But only Fates and Awakening really count here, since SoV is a remake of antiquity. IS could quickly and easily correct this short record with FE Switch.

[Jingle Jangle]

11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

Does Fates even have implied premarital sex? Because Kent, later very apologetic for what happened, gets some between the B and A Supports with Fiora. Although he isn't totally sorry, since that ban on male-female interactions he and Fiora discussed in the B, well they drop the idea completely, Fiora just as naughtily willingly. And the baby came six months after the wedding, perfectly healthy and grown.

Well in Fates Saizo and Kagero used to be former lovers. Until work and unwilling to compromise with each other made them separate. That's the closet I could think of. 

[Ice Dragon]

4 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

seriously, Camilla's armour annoys me so much

Dragon knights don't need all that much armor because it'd be so bloody hard to actually hit them intentionally with so much dragon in the way. You really just need to make sure your dragon is sufficiently armored because that's what everyone will be aiming at. Maybe also armor your legs because that's your most exposed body part.

 

4 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

but Effie's also does - a strong, independent woman who only cares about training... and showing off those thighs

Gotta radiate all that excess heat somewhere when you eat that much and none of it gets stored away as fat.

 

2 hours ago, Water Mage said:

and when I say otaku, I mean it in the real meaning of the word, those shut-ins who lead unhealthy lives

Then you're using the wrong word. "Otaku" in Japanese refers simply to someone who is a hobby enthusiast, be it video games, idols, motorcycles, or WWII-era weaponry. Even in English where it refers specifically to Japan-related hobbies, the word has no requirement of being a shut-in because conventions, gaming tournaments, and concerts are a thing. Most people who qualify as an otaku in either language live perfectly normal everyday lives. A shut-in is a hikikomori.

[Troykv]

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Then you're using the wrong word. "Otaku" in Japanese refers simply to someone who is a hobby enthusiast, be it video games, idols, motorcycles, or WWII-era weaponry. Even in English where it refers specifically to Japan-related hobbies, the word has no requirement of being a shut-in because conventions, gaming tournaments, and concerts are a thing. Most people who qualify as an otaku in either language live perfectly normal everyday lives. A shut-in is a hikikomori.

Yeah, while the world Otaku is ocasionally used as a degorative term, isn't exactly means madness or lack of social qualities...

Ah.. BTW... Being a hikikomori and an otaku at the same time is common?

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Ah.. BTW... Being a hikikomori and an otaku at the same time is common?

Hell if I know. You don't see hikikomori very often for obvious reasons, and I don't go barging into other people's houses like an RPG protagonist to see if there's one there.

[Water Mage]

52 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Then you're using the wrong word. "Otaku" in Japanese refers simply to someone who is a hobby enthusiast, be it video games, idols, motorcycles, or WWII-era weaponry. Even in English where it refers specifically to Japan-related hobbies, the word has no requirement of being a shut-in because conventions, gaming tournaments, and concerts are a thing. Most people who qualify as an otaku in either language live perfectly normal everyday lives. A shut-in is a hikikomori.

When I said shut-in, I’ve meant that Otakus hardly ever leave their rooms, not quite as bad hikikomori though. And from what I’ve heard in Japan, Otakus there aren’t exaclty seen in a good light.

 

40 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Yeah, while the world Otaku is ocasionally used as a degorative term, isn't exactly means madness or lack of social qualities...

Ah.. BTW... Being a hikikomori and an otaku at the same time is common?

From I what I’ve researched, It’s not uncommon, but mostly because they don’t have much to do in their rooms other than watching anime and play videogames.

[Frenzify]

7 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

When I said shut-in, I’ve meant that Otakus hardly ever leave their rooms, not quite as bad hikikomori though. And from what I’ve heard in Japan, Otakus there aren’t exaclty seen in a good light.

 

From I what I’ve researched, It’s not uncommon, but mostly because they don’t have much to do in their rooms other than watching anime and play videogames.

To get technical about it, "otaku" isn't just limited to anime and whatnot. It's simply a word indicating one's obsession with one thing or another. You can have train otaku: people who are interested in, and know an excessive amount about trains. That's the only one that currently comes to mind, but at the crux of it it's base meaning isn't derogatory, although that's not to say it isn't used as one, as you've pointed out.

[Charmeleonbrah]

On 1/31/2018 at 1:31 AM, SoulWeaver said:

Even then, that doesn't cover players like me, who are paranoid like to keep their personal info close to the chest when things like this get involved and won't respond to such a poll. I mean, we can't be that common, but I know I sure as heck am not the only one like that.

I do agree with you that this is an interesting thread, though my personal opinion is that it kind of feels like it's devolving a little at this point.

Afraid you're gonna have to clarify for me, bro - you quoted both sides of my comment, so I'm not sure if you mean the proportions in Fire Emblem or in Conception 2 are skewed. Or both, I could be persuaded you meant both.

Never played Conception 2, so yeah, it was about Fire Emblem. 

On 2/1/2018 at 6:57 AM, Nowi's Husband said:

I'm glad you can marry Nowi and her design is like that, us lolicons deserve to be catered to just as others are, our money is just as good.  Fictional lolis are a safe outlet for our desires without any real children being hurt.

Not a lolicon myself (I get baited by big bob instead) but I approve of any internet degeneracy.  You should read Lolita, great book/10.

[SoulWeaver]

57 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

Never played Conception 2, so yeah, it was about Fire Emblem. 

Not a lolicon myself (I get baited by big bob instead) but I approve of any internet degeneracy.  You should read Lolita, great book/10.

Then yeah, I agree.

Baited by big boobs? Then try Conception 2. Or GoddessKiss, that's another option.
EDIT! Just so you know, I'm mostly kidding about Conception 2. The game has an awful difficulty curve, with almost everything up to the last dungeon being weaksauce and then bam, everything is like three times your power level, and then you have to grind everything except the girls for freaking forever.

Edited February 2, 2018 by SoulWeaver

[Johann]

12 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I agree that heavy sexualization likely turns off as many players as it draws in. The problem with gacha here is the asymmetry. The median FEH player probably spends... I dunno. Some two-digit dollar figure per year on the game? (It might even be zero!) Thus, losing one of them isn't that big a deal. But if you can lure in someone to whale for a character because of an appealing design, you can make thousands of dollars from them, the equivalent of losing dozens of players who are turned off by it. So I do think from a "business success of FEH" standpoint, the sexualization may well make a certain amount of sense. Of course this is not necessarily optimum for the future of FE as a whole. I generally trust the people making business decisions to make ones which make sense (after all, it's their jobs on the lines - not ours here in the peanut gallery), but they can certainly be overly short-term-focused, and this seems like a case where that's possible.

Here's an in-depth 5 piece article on detailing the rise of otaku subculture and how it's played out in mass markets (starts a little slow so if you wanna get to the meat, jump to part 3). The gist of it is that otaku spending habits are consistent, even in times of overall economic decline, making sales of their desired products rather stable. However, due to the designs of these products being catered for a niche group (which the majority has little to no taste for), there isn't much room for growth, if any, including exports into other cultures.

Concerning FEH, it is Nintendo's biggest source of income for smartphones, even topping Mario, and it would require a total overhaul of the game's content to break away from that, so yeah that's not going to be changing. It does, however, suggest (as you suspect) that future FE games following this pattern would not see the kind of sales expected from a rejuvenated Nintendo console install base and the FE series being more prominent than ever before.

12 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

FE having a cast of many female characters is definitely something I respect it for a lot. I feel like the fanbase doesn't give Awakening enough credit for moving towards gender parity; there are a few reasons that the game succeeded with a more diverse fanbase than previous FEs but I feel like giving both genders roughly equal time of day helped. Having higher numbers also lets you have a greater variety, and certainly Awakening and Fates feature a great diversity of personality in their female casts (whether you like them as individuals or not). It doesn't get everything perfect by any means (two of my personal beefs are that the games are extremely heteronormative, and that there's still a huge bias towards making the women conform to certain beauty/body shape standards, albeit not as egregious as it once was) but it's doing better than a lot of video game series I could name.

Agreed. There are a ton of extremely positive things FE is doing, which makes it a better series, and helps draw in more players. These kinds of changes make me hopeful.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Johann

[Water Mage]

2 hours ago, Frenzify said:

To get technical about it, "otaku" isn't just limited to anime and whatnot. It's simply a word indicating one's obsession with one thing or another. You can have train otaku: people who are interested in, and know an excessive amount about trains. That's the only one that currently comes to mind, but at the crux of it it's base meaning isn't derogatory, although that's not to say it isn't used as one, as you've pointed out.

I do know that otaku isn’t something exclusive to anime. But my point was that the fans IS is attracting are “fanservice” otaku, for a lack of a better word. And like Johann said, they spend a lot of monsy on their interest. So, with a business mindset, which type of fan is more attractive to IS? The “regular” fan, who is there for the gameplay and story, doesn’t care for fanservice and probably won’t spend much or the “otaku” fan, who is easy to please, doesn’t care for gameplay and story and is willing to spend a lot? I think the answer is obvious.

[Charmeleonbrah]

I refuse to engage on any level in the infinite idiotic debate regarding Camilla and "fan service".  I think Fire Emblem is unique among gaming franchises in that there is a truly massive amount of analysis regarding fanservice, sexualization, etc.  down to the teeniest detail.  People read every single line of dialogue the character uttered and make a 1,000 word post regarding their thoughts.  I mean, in almost every form of entertainment there is an element of sexualization, with some far more 'out-there' than this franchise, yet FE seems to take the cake as far as overreaction is concerned.  The day after the winter holiday banner was concerned, FEH was the #1 board on Gamefaqs, and there was three pages of just threads about Tharja's outfit.  4 pictures of a scantily clad anime girl caused such a sh*tstorm.

[Cute Chao]

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The irony is that he is the most loyal rational knight on the surface, but come his supports, he can be a impassioned monster deep down. I would not call this rational:

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Does Fates even have implied premarital sex? Because Kent, later very apologetic for what happened, gets some between the B and A Supports with Fiora. Although he isn't totally sorry, since that ban on male-female interactions he and Fiora discussed in the B, well they drop the idea completely, Fiora just as naughtily willingly. And the baby came six months after the wedding, perfectly healthy and grown.

FarinaxKent has no such moments as Lyn and Fiora though. Not sure why. Kent still goes with his wife though wherever she takes him, instead of him dragging her around, which I like.

I always loved that about Kent. He's incredibly loyal - originally to his country, but when that gets absorbed, either to his new liege or to his wife. I adored all of his supports - they all showed different sides.

Never thought of him and Fiora together like that, though, before then. One way to convince themselves to drop a 'no relationship' scheme xD 

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Dragon knights don't need all that much armor because it'd be so bloody hard to actually hit them intentionally with so much dragon in the way. You really just need to make sure your dragon is sufficiently armored because that's what everyone will be aiming at. Maybe also armor your legs because that's your most exposed body part.

Gotta radiate all that excess heat somewhere when you eat that much and none of it gets stored away as fat.

See, I can get over the lack of chest armour for that reason (though a stray arrow could prove deadly, like with Cherche's awful missing back armour,, or a thrust of a lance if she chooses to attack physically and not magically), but the lack of lower armour is what really gets me. She's wearing some kind of thong armour that just looks... uncomfortable. 

I'm sure one of the male armours also mentioned that they were hot. Maybe they should take tips from Effie xD 

But, again... just stop removing armour from the female armour wearing units, and I'll be happy. I can put up with any mage or dancers outfits if they could just do that >.< 

Then again, they've hit the winning formula. I'm half expecting to see the new FE with a woman wearing shields over her nipples and a crotch guard, and that'll be it >.< 

[Sunwoo]

See, if male and female units of the same class wore identical (or close enough to identical) outfits, this wouldn't be a problem. If all male wyvern riders, pegasus knights (aka Tsubaki and Shigure), and cavaliers also had the same open thighs as the female class, people would be complaining less. (Although the armor will still look dumb because of open thighs.)

But for some reason (that I'm pretty sure we all know, even if some of us won't admit it), the men are fully and properly armored while the women seem to lack pants. That's not a coincidence.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Sunwoo