Old units getting unique weapons

[Arthur97]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That would just make her a worse Olwen because Olwen [+Atk] has +1 Atk and +2 Spd over her.

But she's also free.

[Ae†her]

I think this is the start of a nice thing. Maybe we can see older mediocre units become more viable. For example Saizo can get Saizo's star (although I'm not sure how to make that more viable over Poison Dagger+ for him), Camilla can get Aurgelmir (built in Death Blow 6 to accompany her Darting Blow 3 would just be fantastic, and I prefer that over just Camilla's Axe), Setsuna's Yumi (can have similar effect as a Assassins' Bow, but now with a debuff)...etc.

[Humanoid]

While I like the intention of buffing the underpowered units who would likely receive such weapons, I can't say I can fully support even more uninheritable stuff in FEH. I mean, looking at the recent pseudo-survey in the General Discussion topic, the most praised feature change of FEH was the addition of SI, but the trend towards more and more unique uninheritable stuff kind of undermines that. I prefer more flexibility than this change that would end up defining each unit by their personal weapon. SI was "every unit is their stats", this would be "every unit is their weapon".

Hell, these weapons weren't even character-exclusive in their original games so I think with enough forethought I think they'd be better off designing them as inheritable weapons but which are suited to the stat spreads/move types of their default wielders. For example, Lilina's special tome could come with some effect that is useful for slow mages like herself, Sanaki and Leo, but wouldn't really benefit fast mages like Tharja or Katarina. Say something like the Windsweep effect but without the Speed check.

The goal here would be to up the value of the less desired stat spreads, not to power up the already high-tier characters. If they make Felicia's Plate inheritable but do something based on the user's Res, then you could potentially also do interesting stuff with Cat Sakura and Ninja Olivia.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Humanoid

[Zeo]

2 hours ago, Humanoid said:

The goal here would be to up the value of the less desired stat spreads, not to power up the already high-tier characters. If they make Felicia's Plate inheritable but do something based on the user's Res, then you could potentially also do interesting stuff with Cat Sakura and Ninja Olivia.

Felicia's Plate and Hinoka's Spear are likely to be Prf weapons designed to make the units themselves better. Otherwise it would be kind of purpose defeating if another unit could use Felicia's weapon better than she could.

On the other hand, with Mia and Lute having Prf's it makes me wonder if they'll give prfs to units that didn't have them originally. Laslow, Hana, Selena, MATTHEW, Sully, Stahl, Draug, Shanna. Units that don't really stand out otherwise.

[Humanoid]

43 minutes ago, Zeo said:

Felicia's Plate and Hinoka's Spear are likely to be Prf weapons designed to make the units themselves better. Otherwise it would be kind of purpose defeating if another unit could use Felicia's weapon better than she could.

On the other hand, with Mia and Lute having Prf's it makes me wonder if they'll give prfs to units that didn't have them originally. Laslow, Hana, Selena, MATTHEW, Sully, Stahl, Draug, Shanna. Units that don't really stand out otherwise.

Felicia is still the highest res dagger user and if the special effect of Felicia's Plate works off res, she can still be the best user of it while still allowing other units to use it (though it may well be practically useless to tanky daggers like Saizo and Matthew). In the same way Kagero is the best user of her dagger (until Sothe arrived) but you still get value out of giving it to other units if you have spares.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Humanoid

[Ice Dragon]

Back in my day, we didn't have half the weapons in the game named after half the cast. I personally don't see the point in having weapons special enough to be named after someone, but not special enough that anyone can use it.

But anyways, back to Heroes. Heroes is Heroes and does as Heroes does. Hinoka's Spear has as much right to be locked to Hinoka as Vidofnir has to be locked to Tana. The fact that it was announced as Hinoka's Spear and not Hinoka's Spear+ should really hint at that.

Same with Felicia's Plate.

 

On that same note, I really dislike the existence of Legion's Axe, Clarisse's Bow, and Berkut's Lance in this game. They really should have given them generic names if they were going to be generic weapons.

[Cornguy]

Would it be too much to give Odin an exclusive tome that negated %20 resistance? He's so bad already I feel it'd be okay, but it's a really slippery slope if ANY other unit got a similar weapon. 

Would also like to see Sully and Stahl get some unique sapphire/ ruby weapons. 

I'm glad Felicia is getting something, but really all of the dagger users need something to make them relevant. 

[redlight]

18 minutes ago, Cornguy said:

Would it be too much to give Odin an exclusive tome that negated %20 resistance? He's so bad already I feel it'd be okay, but it's a really slippery slope if ANY other unit got a similar weapon. 

Would also like to see Sully and Stahl get some unique sapphire/ ruby weapons. 

I'm glad Felicia is getting something, but really all of the dagger users need something to make them relevant. 

To be honest, if a unit is at the bottom of the barrel then a overpowered weapon for them can be justified.

[Zeo]

15 minutes ago, Cornguy said:

Would it be too much to give Odin an exclusive tome that negated %20 resistance? He's so bad already I feel it'd be okay, but it's a really slippery slope if ANY other unit got a similar weapon. 

Would also like to see Sully and Stahl get some unique sapphire/ ruby weapons. 

I'm glad Felicia is getting something, but really all of the dagger users need something to make them relevant. 

Honestly Odin is so bad he has the right to be given a prf Blade Tome with Attack+3 and Swift Sparrow 2 built into it and he STILL would only be hitting 43 ATK on initiation without buffs.

He is entitled to the strongest Prf in the game. And though I've crafted a build for him I'm more than happy with and works, Matthew deserves one as well. He and Felicia are the weakest daggers in the game from an offensive perspective. 

1 hour ago, Humanoid said:

Felicia is still the highest res dagger user and if the special effect of Felicia's Plate works off res, she can still be the best user of it while still allowing other units to use it (though it may well be practically useless to tanky daggers like Saizo and Matthew). In the same way Kagero is the best user of her dagger (until Sothe arrived) but you still get value out of giving it to other units if you have spares.

Halloween Sakura has 1 point less RES and 11 more points of ATK. Seasonals aside, I get your point. But what I dislike is the precedent it sets. Kagero is different because the dagger isn't specifically stated in the title to be hers or has a special tie to her from the game she's from. Yes Felicia might be able to use her weapon best, but that just happens to be the case here. Hinoka's spear however could be better suited on a unit like Cordelia at which point Hinoka fails to carve out any additional space for herself among the other units. Berkut is the perfect example as his lance is great on certain units but terrible on himself. He really should have gotten a different lance or that one just be named something else. On that I agree with @Ice Dragon.

 

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Zeo said:

Berkut is the perfect example as his lance is great on certain units but terrible on himself. He really should have gotten a different lance or that one just be named something else.

Berkut is actually decent with Berkut's Lance+. Having 31/35 bulk (or 35/31 with a Def refine) is more than acceptable considering Sheena has 36/33 and was the gold standard for mixed bulk for almost an entire year. He also has the highest Atk of all of the lance cavalry if you don't count +Atk natures. With full cavalry buffs, he sits at 43/54/28/37/41 (or 43/54/28/41/37).

But they really should have named it "Barrier Lance" or something like that. No good reason to put Berkut's name on the thing then let everyone else have it.

[bottlegnomes]

Yeah, why do people keep saying Berkut is bad with his lance? He's got one more res that neutral Effie, granted 7 less health, and people fawn over Effie's magical taking with it. It's not like he's Camus or Lukas where with it he's not even breaking 30 res.

Anyway, also seconding the whole named weapons thing. I'm not a fan of it in general, even if it is a unique weapon, with minor exceptions of Felicia since it's already ridiculous and Legion since he's more of an entity than an actual person.

As for Ursula saw someone suggest Bolting as like a firesweep tome. Maybe give it -5 speed or make it a windsweep type effect instead, can counter but not double, to keep it from being broken.

For Berkut, I've seen a lot of people suggest Kreimhild as DC, but would that really improve him? Either way he wants DC and QR to be a mage counter. With his lance and DD he can have 48 attack, 37 ranged def, and 41 ranged res. With a DC lance, he'd be able to swap out his A skill, but you best bet would probably be either going physical tank with a brazen which Xander does better thanks to 37 def and Camus does with an actual speed stat, or give him DD A skill in which case he's getting 50 attack, 43 ranged def, and 36 ranged res, in exchange for -5 HP. Is that really that much of an improvement? He'd be decent enough, but it doesn't really change his role or improve his ability in his role? If anything, double down on the mage tanking and make it like Tyrfing with built in warding stance 4 or something. Gives him a nice as the mage tanking lance cav and let's him run DC with out losing a lot of the magic bulk unlike Sigurd.

I still think it'd be hilarious if they gave Sophia Forblaze, and I could see Shanna getting Maltet as a killer weapon with maybe like guard built in or an amped up gravity where they can't move at all after being attacked, freezing them in place. I swear that and hit and run would be totally fair <_<

[redlight]

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

Yeah, why do people keep saying Berkut is bad with his lance? He's got one more res that neutral Effie, granted 7 less health, and people fawn over Effie's magical taking with it. It's not like he's Camus or Lukas where with it he's not even breaking 30 res.

Anyway, also seconding the whole named weapons thing. I'm not a fan of it in general, even if it is a unique weapon, with minor exceptions of Felicia since it's already ridiculous and Legion since he's more of an entity than an actual person.

As for Ursula saw someone suggest Bolting as like a firesweep tome. Maybe give it -5 speed or make it a windsweep type effect instead, can counter but not double, to keep it from being broken.

For Berkut, I've seen a lot of people suggest Kreimhild as DC, but would that really improve him? Either way he wants DC and QR to be a mage counter. With his lance and DD he can have 48 attack, 37 ranged def, and 41 ranged res. With a DC lance, he'd be able to swap out his A skill, but you best bet would probably be either going physical tank with a brazen which Xander does better thanks to 37 def and Camus does with an actual speed stat, or give him DD A skill in which case he's getting 50 attack, 43 ranged def, and 36 ranged res, in exchange for -5 HP. Is that really that much of an improvement? He'd be decent enough, but it doesn't really change his role or improve his ability in his role? If anything, double down on the mage tanking and make it like Tyrfing with built in warding stance 4 or something. Gives him a nice as the mage tanking lance cav and let's him run DC with out losing a lot of the magic bulk unlike Sigurd.

I still think it'd be hilarious if they gave Sophia Forblaze, and I could see Shanna getting Maltet as a killer weapon with maybe like guard built in or an amped up gravity where they can't move at all after being attacked, freezing them in place. I swear that and hit and run would be totally fair <_<

For Effie it'd be good since she has access to Wary Fighter, Berkut doesn't. If they're gonna give him Kriemhild they have to understand that slapping DC on everything isn't gonna help. They should also add a Distant Defense effect on it as well. I'd say 4 def/res at least.

These weapon effects might be broken, but here I go!

Raigh
Apocalypse (14 Mt): Grants Res+5. If unit's Res - foe's Res ≥ 3, foe can't make a follow-up attack.

Odin
Odin's Grimoire (14 Mt): Grants Atk+3. If unit initiates combat, unit granted Atk/Spd+4 during battle. Adds total bonuses on unit to damage dealt.

Soren
Tornado (14 Mt): Grants Spd+3. During combat, foe's Spd/Res decreased by number of adjacent allies x 2.

Wrys
Barrier (support skill): Restores HP = 50% of Atk. Grants Def/Res = (target's Atk - unit's Atk) / 2.

Edited January 30, 2018 by silveraura25

[bottlegnomes]

33 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

For Effie it'd be good since she has access to Wary Fighter, Berkut doesn't. If they're gonna give him Kriemhild they have to understand that slapping DC on everything isn't gonna help. They should also add a Distant Defense effect on it. I'd say 4 def/res at least.

Oh yeah, no disagreement. Effie's definitely better with it, but that's just because Effie's a better unit rather than Berkut being awful with it. I just don't really get people saying Berkut's awful with his lance. He's not particularly good, but his lance is probably one of the best weapons you can give him. Most other magically tanky cavs don't have great def and/or health so he can be a mixed tank much better.

People seem to do exactly that though, thinking giving him DC will suddenly improve him significantly when really it does very little to improve his actual usefulness. Just me ranting a little over a gripe and not something to put too much stock in.

Anyway, that Ways one sounds really cool and part of me wonders if even that would save Odin :P

Edited January 30, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Silith13]

For Felicia's plate I expect the current dragon effect where it targets the lowest among def and res on the enemy.

 

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, silveraura25 said:

For Effie it'd be good since she has access to Wary Fighter, Berkut doesn't. If they're gonna give him Kriemhild they have to understand that slapping DC on everything isn't gonna help. They should also add a Distant Defense effect on it as well. I'd say 4 def/res at least.

+0 Berkut [=] (Berkut's Lance+ [Res], Distant Counter, Quick Riposte 3, Distant Def 3) +6/6/6/6 has 43 HP and 47 Res for 68.5 magic bulk over 2 hits (90 magic bulk for 1 hit) and counterattacks twice with 54 Atk.

The few dangerous infantry blue tome users die to the first counterattack due to their abysmal physical bulk. Even if Delthea didn't die to the counterattack, she'd still need 20 Atk from nature, buffs, and/or skills to two-hit kill Berkut with Blarblade+.

Reinhardt is only a problem because he most commonly runs Lancebreaker, but a standard +10 Reinhardt without Lancebreaker requires the Attack +3 Sacred Seal on top of cavalry buffs to kill +3 Berkut (and Attack +2 to kill +0 Berkut).

Berkut doesn't need Wary Fighter, and the existence of cavalry staff users means he also doesn't need to worry about keeping Quick Riposte active.

[bottlegnomes]

@Ice Dragon Does BL+ not give +5 HP? I've never actually gotten it so I have no idea. I just kind of assumed it did like most refined weapons.

Edited January 30, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Ice Dragon]

15 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Does BL+ not give +5 HP? I've never actually gotten it so I have no idea. I just kind of assumed it did like most refined weapons.

I just keep forgetting the +5 HP exists.

[Hilda]

So I played with my +5 Karel (+HP boon) around in Arena Assault with his 65 HP and Vengeance. Its really funny to play like that lol.
I hope he gets personal weapon too that gives him the Wo Dao effect but like additional 15 HP or so!

Its funny to bait and kill Nowis with him, due to his high HP he can take the hit of Nowi and retaliate with Vengeance <3

I left him at 6 HP once just for Wrath 3 to kick in make his special ready and send a +10 Zelgius to the outer stratosphere!

[redlight]

Stahl
Sol Blade (16 Mt): Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). If unit receives consecutive attacks, damage from second attack onward reduced by 30%. If Special triggers, heal 50% of damage dealt.
Explanation: Stahl faces heavy competition with Xander and Eldigan since they're better cavalry sword tanks. Those two have better offense and defense than Stahl due to stat distribution as well as access to a legendary weapon. I decided to mimic B!Ike's specialty with Urvan so that Stahl can be a better tank. Sol effect to increase survivability. Might be an overpowered effect. Basically, 2 countdown Aether if you run Luna.

Shanna
Maltet (16 Mt): Grants Atk/Spd+2. Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). Unit and enemies cannot use counterattacks.
Explanation: Gave firesweep effect because Shanna has lousy defense and that defense is usually her dump stat. Basically, she wants to avoid physical confrontations. Cooldown reduction to help her out with her average attack.

Titania
Labrys (16 Mt): Grants Atk/Res+4 during combat when this unit is attacked. Damage that unit receives is calculated using the higher of unit's Def or Res.
Explanation: Titania is a res tank with decent speed, but that's all she's got. Her attack is pitiful as well as the fact that she's reliant on close range combat with mediocre defense. Decided to give her a weapon that turns her into the ultimate tank in the sense that she completely negates damage suffered from physical attacks. Every physical attacker will target her resistance instead of defense and the special effect cancels out a refined breath's effect ensuring that Titania can take hits from any type of foe.

Niles
Shining Bow (14 Mt): Grants Atk+6 if unit initiates combat. If foe's Range = 1, damage calculated using the lower of foe's Def or Res.
Explanation: Niles suffers from a case of min maxing odd stat combos. He has high spd/res, but low attack and pathetic defense. Since his attack is pitiful, I decided to allow for him to target whichever defensive stat of the foes is lower and a Death Blow 3 effect to make up for his poor damage.

Edited January 31, 2018 by silveraura25

[XRay]

5 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Titania
Labrys (16 Mt): Grants Atk/Res+4 during combat when this unit is attacked. Damage that unit receives is calculated using the higher of unit's Def or Res.
Explanation: Titania is a res tank with decent speed, but that's all she's got. Her attack is pitiful as well as the fact that she's reliant on close range combat with mediocre defense. Decided to give her a weapon that turns her into the ultimate tank in the sense that she completely negates damage suffered from physical attacks. Every physical attacker will target her resistance instead of defense and the special effect cancels out a refined breath's effect ensuring that Titania can take hits from any type of foe.

Niles
Shining Bow (14 Mt): Grants Atk+6 if unit initiates combat. If foe's Range = 1, damage calculated using the lower of foe's Def or Res.
Explanation: Niles suffers from a case of min maxing odd stat combos. He has high spd/res, but low attack and pathetic defense. Since his attack is pitiful, I decided to allow for him to target whichever defensive stat of the foes is lower and a Death Blow 3 effect to make up for his poor damage.

What happens if Niles attack Titania? Do we use Defense or Resistance? Does Titania's effect trump Nile's effect or vice versa?

[redlight]

1 minute ago, XRay said:

What happens if Niles attack Titania? Do we use Defense or Resistance? Does Titania's effect trump Nile's effect or vice versa?

Reverts back to normal damage calculation. Same with refined breath against Labrys. Both effects are canceled out.

[Jingle Jangle]

I would want:

• Camilla: she's falling behind other green fliers, and needs something special.
• Azura: She needs to keep up with other dancers and herself funny enough.
• Ogma: He has been since the launch of the game yet overshadowed by other sword units despite having a decent stat spread.
• Sheena: So that she isn't a weaker version of Amelia.
• Jakob: He need much better treatment, considering that he always struggled compared to other dagger units
• Catria: Needs more love, maybe more focused on a duelist set, like in the beginning of the game.

[BANRYU]

I could see Baby Tiki potentially getting Myrrh's Great Flame. 

Lilina ought to get Forblaze, that seems fitting eh lol. 

Berkut. Need I say more.

IDK if standard Camilla needs a prf weapon as much as Hinoka needed one (poor Hinoke gettin' no attention from special banners, the only Fates sib not to I think), but it's not out of the question that she might get her named Axe. 

Giving units like Hana / Hinata or Oboro / Subaki (particularly the latter in each set because of how lackluster they are) the legendary weaps from Fates like Waterwheel and whatever the S-rank Katana was might be neat. On the other hand, maybe not, since preferential treatment. On that note, Saizo (or maybe Kaze if he's ever introduced) getting the S-rank shuriken (forget that one too), and Beruka or maybe (but doubtfully) Gunter getting the S-rank hammer thing. 

 

Aside from those? Not too sure what else to expect. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

15 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

IDK if standard Camilla needs a prf weapon as much as Hinoka needed one (poor Hinoke gettin' no attention from special banners, the only Fates sib not to I think), but it's not out of the question that she might get her named Axe. 

Giving units like Hana / Hinata or Oboro / Subaki (particularly the latter in each set because of how lackluster they are) the legendary weaps from Fates like Waterwheel and whatever the S-rank Katana was might be neat. On the other hand, maybe not, since preferential treatment. On that note, Saizo (or maybe Kaze if he's ever introduced) getting the S-rank shuriken (forget that one too), and Beruka or maybe (but doubtfully) Gunter getting the S-rank hammer thing. 

 

Even Camilla dislikers would have no issue with her getting her Axe, since it's just upgrading one of her past selves as opposed to being a new one.

The S Katana is the Hagakure Blade, the S Shuriken is the Chakram, the S Axe is Aurgelmir.

As for Tiki, she could use Mist Breath- her old FE3 Book 2 Divine Dragon weapon.

Hana, Hinata, Oboro, and Subaki all also had named weapons in Fates. So they could get those. As did Odin, Leo, Laslow, Selena, Peri, Effie, Xander, Beruka, Arthur, Jakob, Niles, Anna, Iago, Takumi, Ryoma, Rinkah, Fuga, Kaze, Saizo, Kagero, Setsuna, Mikoto, Izana, Sakura, Elise, and Lilith.

A bunch of NM characters have named weapons too, the Luke Sword, the Ogma Sword, the Cecille Sword. Draug, Rody, and Camus Lances, Barst and Bord & Cord (they share one) had Axes, Ryan and Gordin Bows, Merric and Katarina Books, and a Wrys Staff.

Titania had an Axe in Awakening, and Osian had a Hatchet too. Innes and Wolt had Bows. Aversa and Micaiah Tomes. Finn a Lance (but he needs the Brave Lance- the Bravest Braver Bravely Brave Lance there is). Every past Lord had a weapon too.

And they could always invent new ones for other characters younger and older in terms of game of origin.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[redlight]

After seeing what the refinement gave us with new weapons, I've got a few ideas to share once I get home.