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How is using only 3 units in Lyn's Story "optimal"?

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20 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:

But do we all really want to have to wait 10 boring chapters just to have a good lord? Look at Sain or Kent, when they join without training they are already usable while Lyn has atrocious stats and if I were to train her on Lyn's mode then that's wasted potential because I could use the very same effort to give my kills to Sain or Kent who end up much better and even with no effort put into them the cavalier duo is extremely useful.

Remember always kids, when using a cavalier yell *DEEP BREATHS* CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Aw V_V If you don't enjoy Lyn's story, than I understand skipping it, I myself do enjoy it however, even though they aren't the most fun chapters to play in, but they are easy enough to the point you won't need to worry about spending too much time on them, and I also do enjoy seeing more of Lyn, so I myself don't normally skip it, and there are so many enemies who are axe users in the first few chapters from what I remember, so I still think training Lyn isn't the hardest thing ever, and I never knew not using Lyn was a thing, because she's forced in some chapters on Hector/Eliwood stories, the thought of not using her would had never came to me.

And why use Kent or Sain when you can use Isadora : P ? 

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1 hour ago, This boi uses Nino said:

But do we all really want to have to wait 10 boring chapters just to have a good lord? Look at Sain or Kent, when they join without training they are already usable while Lyn has atrocious stats and if I were to train her on Lyn's mode then that's wasted potential because I could use the very same effort to give my kills to Sain or Kent who end up much better and even with no effort put into them the cavalier duo is extremely useful.

Remember always kids, when using a cavalier yell *DEEP BREATHS* CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGEEEEEEEEEEEE!

If you don't want to play Lyn's mode, that's up to you alone. Yeah, Sain and Kent are better. So what? Assuming only the best are used is a poor way to judge units. Your name suggests - or rather, states - you don't use only the best units as it is.

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2 hours ago, Rose482 said:

 

And why use Kent or Sain when you can use Isadora : P ? 

Because the cavalier class is ususally an exception, unlike Louise who can be the sole purpose I decide not to train Rebbeca or Will and not using them doesn't make a difference; for Cavaliers if I get some earlygame but I get a good one later one it is near impossible to justify not using these early cavaliers, unlike archers, not using cavaliers is a bigger pain and there is often little choice to who to give the exp not used on them...

Isadora has nice bases and her low con is fixed by her high speed but by chapter 22 either kent or sain is already promoted; unlike Rebecca, Sain and Kent can usually get several levels per chapter so let's say 2 levels per chapter. meaning that if I didn't play Lyn's mode Sain and kent would be at level 4 so from chapter 15 to 22 (On EN/HM) 10 chapters so 20 levels, if I promote Sain  at 20/1 I get these averages which I will compare to Isadora's bases. 36 HP beats Isadora's 28, 20 STR beats Isadora's 13, Isadora beats Sains skill of 11 by , Speed only by 2! Luck is tied, and sain beats Isadora in Def but loses in res. so only one more point of skill or 2% displayed hit and 1/2 point of crit, 2 more speed to double the myrmidons that sain was already one-shotting. and 1 res. 

Lets compare kent to Isadora now. In a cleaner manner, Kents Stats will be displayed and in parentheses how much Isadora wins or loses over that certain stat.

HP 38(-10) STR 14(-1) SKL  16 (-4) SPD 16 (+0) LCK 5 (+5) DEF 11(-3) RES 6(+0). WOW! Kent is actually better than sain according to averages O.o, as you can see Isadora is bested by kent in averages and even thougb yeah he does require training who are you going to give that exp to? Eliwood? rebecca? Will? Yes maybe you would give it to Hector but he already grows fine in a team with Kent so not using kent would be a bigger pain than using him just because he is a cavalier, why does being cavalier matter a lot? Well you got 7 move besting even promoted foot units, Near Weapon Triangle control, high aid and semi-canto is just why they are so good!

So while you can say that Louise is better than Rebecca because she doesn't require training that usually implies that Rebecca is a pain to train or use but with Kent or Sain that doesn't work and since Marcus is the jagen he doesn't count as the "Later prepromote" That is Louise to Rebecca, Harken to Raven and Isadora to Sain/Kent/Lowen.

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1 hour ago, Florete said:

If you don't want to play Lyn's mode, that's up to you alone. Yeah, Sain and Kent are better. So what? Assuming only the best are used is a poor way to judge units. Your name suggests - or rather, states - you don't use only the best units as it is.

Im sorry for double posting but I was writitng the last one befre Florete commented, s please let this pass Moderators. 

My name is rather a joke that only applies to ENM, but that's not how I judge units, I judge if a unit is good with the following system.

Is the game easier with the unit being used? If the answer is yes then its a good unit if No then proceed with the next question. If Indifferent then it means that the unit being or not being used changes nothing


Is the game easier with the unit not being used ? If the previous answer was no but this one is yes then the unit is bad, if the prevous one was no but this one is also no then the game is easy implying that this unit in this game is a dime a dozen in a pool of many good ones. 
 

Lyn is a No,Yes so she is bad 
Sain is a Yes but a No,Yes if he's being compared only to other cavaliers of FE7
Kent is a Yes but a No,Yes if he's being compared only to other cavaliers  of FE7

Nino is Indifferent

Edited by This boi uses Nino

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6 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

Lyn is a No,Yes so she is bad 
Sain is a Yes but a No,Yes if he's being compared only to other cavaliers of FE7
Kent is a Yes but a No,Yes if he's being compared only to other cavaliers  of FE7

Nino is Indifferent

Are you... claiming that using Lyn makes the game harder but using Nino does not? Because that makes no sense at all.

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16 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

Are you... claiming that using Lyn makes the game harder but using Nino does not? Because that makes no sense at all.

i think he's trying to say that his personal opinion on nino doesn't matter.

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9 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

 

Are you... claiming that using Lyn makes the game harder but using Nino does not? Because that makes no sense at all.

The thing is, to get Lyn to a usable point takes time and a lot of effort, and if I don't use her, is the game easier for me? Yes. Nino joins at a time where using her won't change anything because all your other units are already good and if you dont use her nothing changes thus being an indifferent

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It takes a lot more time and effort to get Nino usable than it does Lyn. Lyn gets her early levels to get rolling in by far the easiest part of the game. In no way does levelling her make the game harder; if anything it makes it easier because (a) when Lyn is forced for random maps she can actually contribute and (b) levelling her gives you access to Geitz who is much more helpful than Wallace. That's before considering her own contributions.

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3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

It takes a lot more time and effort to get Nino usable than it does Lyn. Lyn gets her early levels to get rolling in by far the easiest part of the game. In no way does levelling her make the game harder; if anything it makes it easier because (a) when Lyn is forced for random maps she can actually contribute and (b) levelling her gives you access to Geitz who is much more helpful than Wallace. That's before considering her own contributions.

I mean that the game could be easier if I instead give the kills going into her to someone like Sain, Kent, Erk, Florina etc. By the time Nino joins all your units are OP so if you use her or not wouldn't change anything. And for the Geitz/Wallace decision, yes Geitz is better than Wallace but at what cost? to have to fight Lloyd in a throne that gives him a ton of avoid? Plus it's not mandatory to use them so it's not like I have to pick. And, should I really have to level up Lyn for just some 2-4 chapters? It's like saying train Rebecca because there's ballistas in VoD.

Edited by This boi uses Nino

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7 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

I mean that the game could be easier if I instead give the kills going into her to someone like Sain, Kent, Erk, Florina etc. By the time Nino joins all your units are OP so if you use her or not wouldn't change anything. And for the Geitz/Wallace decision, yes Geitz is better than Wallace but at what cost? to have to fight Lloyd in a throne that gives him a ton of avoid? Plus it's not mandatory to use them so it's not like I have to pick. And, should I really have to level up Lyn for just some 2-4 chapters? It's like saying train Rebecca because there's ballistas in VoD.

Thing is, you could argue that during later maps where you'd use Nino, you could do the exact same with Lyn (neglect to use her for most of the game and then train her at the point where "if you use her or not wouldn't change anything". The difference of course is Lyn at least has the opportunity to be used far earlier and does have a free deployment slot on some maps (Nino is the same for 1.5 maps though I suppose). 

There's also the fact that because it "wouldn't change anything" implies that training/using Nino doesn't affect much either (aside from EXP rank). Part of the reason why Nino isn't good is because late-game FE7 doesn't have high enemy quality so the necessity of growth units isn't very high either. Lyn can at least contribute on many earlier maps that are less easy to steam-roll. Sure she's still worse than a lot of other units, but the fact that she can still play a role does matter. Existing > Not existing.

Only scenario where Nino is better would be if you completely neglect Lyn and then need some kind of unpromoted fodder lategame for EXP rank purposes. Nino is a rather safe option for that in comparison.

Edited by Dunal

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4 hours ago, Dunal said:

Thing is, you could argue that during later maps where you'd use Nino, you could do the exact same with Lyn (neglect to use her for most of the game and then train her at the point where "if you use her or not wouldn't change anything". The difference of course is Lyn at least has the opportunity to be used far earlier and does have a free deployment slot on some maps (Nino is the same for 1.5 maps though I suppose). 

There's also the fact that because it "wouldn't change anything" implies that training/using Nino doesn't affect much either (aside from EXP rank). Part of the reason why Nino isn't good is because late-game FE7 doesn't have high enemy quality so the necessity of growth units isn't very high either. Lyn can at least contribute on many earlier maps that are less easy to steam-roll. Sure she's still worse than a lot of other units, but the fact that she can still play a role does matter. Existing > Not existing.

Only scenario where Nino is better would be if you completely neglect Lyn and then need some kind of unpromoted fodder lategame for EXP rank purposes. Nino is a rather safe option for that in comparison.

The point I try to make is that Lyn is annoying to level up and it's easier to just not use her and not have to worry that she dies or having to play slowly just for her. 

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