How is using only 3 units in Lyn's Story "optimal"?

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

I don't have any issues with being swordlocked, it's a reliable accurate weapon.

She attacks and causes damage in the 10's range, which is about the same most units do in a single hit and since they can't double consistently yet, it comes as no suprise that she's causing enough damage, if that's chip damage, then everyone is causing chip damage.

Also, archers don't get counterattacked and in return help allies to not get counterattacked in return by letting them finish off a weakened opponent.

I can think of some - no range, for one. This means archers, javelins, and the like are a big annoyance. Second, it means constantly facing WTD. At least, without expensive lancereavers that have few uses.

Double what consistently? Because once you get into midgame, most units weigh themselves down. Also, I would imagine that would be true if she was using steel, which weighs her down considerably.

That kinda was what I meant by the best used for chip damage comment...

[DiogoJorge]

On 25/05/2018 at 3:26 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I can think of some - no range, for one. This means archers, javelins, and the like are a big annoyance. Second, it means constantly facing WTD. At least, without expensive lancereavers that have few uses.

Double what consistently? Because once you get into midgame, most units weigh themselves down. Also, I would imagine that would be true if she was using steel, which weighs her down considerably.

That kinda was what I meant by the best used for chip damage comment...

I have no issues with WTD, swords are accurate even against lances, and I have little issue with Lyn taking a couple points of extra damage. Only one Lancereaver is all I need, since she's mostly going to stick with regular swords unless necessary, as I said before, I'm not allergic to the idea of fightning against enemies with WTA.

Most enemies, very few units double until later on, even then it's usually just Guy, Raven, Kent and Florina doing so.  Steel Swords aren't a issue to her, since she reaches SPD 20 faster than most. That would still make it 15 SPD, not that matters much, since she has already A rank in swords by the time of chapter 17x, where she already can use the Silver Sword from chapter 17.

It's not chip damage though, stripping an enemy to close to half their health is good damage.

[Shadow Mir]

9 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

I have no issues with WTD, swords are accurate even against lances, and I have little issue with Lyn taking a couple points of extra damage. Only one Lancereaver is all I need, since she's mostly going to stick with regular swords unless necessary, as I said before, I'm not allergic to the idea of fightning against enemies with WTA.

Most enemies, very few units double until later on, even then it's usually just Guy, Raven, Kent and Florina doing so.  Steel Swords aren't a issue to her, since she reaches SPD 20 faster than most. That would still make it 15 SPD, not that matters much, since she has already A rank in swords by the time of chapter 17x, where she already can use the Silver Sword from chapter 17.

It's not chip damage though, stripping an enemy to close to half their health is good damage.

They are, but their accuracy tends to be overkill in most instances. This isn't FE6, where most weapons had bad accuracy and enemies could actually dodge stuff. And there's still the matter of swords having no good ranged options (incidentally, this is why being locked to swords tends to be treated as a bad thing), which means that swordlocked units are limited in what they can do come enemy phase. Anyway, you might be okay with having Lyn go against the weapon triangle, but I'm not so quick to be like that since her death spells "Game Over".

Sounds like you forgot we were talking about Rebecca, who cannot use swords... anyway, Lyn wouldn't be expected to hit 20 speed until the end of her unpromoted leveling cycle.

Which isn't something Rebecca can be expected to do unless she uses steel, or attacks something with wings. Because archer, remember?

[DiogoJorge]

37 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

They are, but their accuracy tends to be overkill in most instances. This isn't FE6, where most weapons had bad accuracy and enemies could actually dodge stuff. And there's still the matter of swords having no good ranged options (incidentally, this is why being locked to swords tends to be treated as a bad thing), which means that swordlocked units are limited in what they can do come enemy phase. Anyway, you might be okay with having Lyn go against the weapon triangle, but I'm not so quick to be like that since her death spells "Game Over".

Sounds like you forgot we were talking about Rebecca, who cannot use swords... anyway, Lyn wouldn't be expected to hit 20 speed until the end of her unpromoted leveling cycle.

Which isn't something Rebecca can be expected to do unless she uses steel, or attacks something with wings. Because archer, remember?

Rebecca doesn't need to use swords. 14 damage is still about half of the enemies HP in early chapters.

Considering that I reset no matter who dies, doesn't make much difference. Not to mention that I manage Lyn durability perfectly, so I rarely have to.

 

Lyn hits SPD 20 by lv 15 or so, which is only 5 levels from when she rejoins.

I don't see the problem of Rebecc being archer, as long as she causes damage, which she does, 14 damage after all.

 

[Shadow Mir]

8 minutes ago, DiogoJorge said:

Rebecca doesn't need to use swords. 14 damage is still about half of the enemies HP in early chapters.

Considering that I reset no matter who dies, doesn't make much difference. Not to mention that I manage Lyn durability perfectly, so I rarely have to.

 

Lyn hits SPD 20 by lv 15 or so, which is only 5 levels from when she rejoins.

I don't see the problem of Rebecc being archer, as long as she causes damage, which she does, 14 damage after all.

 

Too bad that Rebecca starts with 4 strength, 6 speed and an iron bow then, eh? I could only see her doing that early on (against non-flying units, mind you) if you hacked in a silver bow or against soldiers, which are the very definition of cannon fodder. Doing great against soldiers isn't a feat worth bragging about...

O...kay then...?

 

Personal experience means nothing - just because you might have had a blessed Lyn does not prove your point.

Because you continue to downplay and dance around how much of a limitation it really is. And see my first point for the 14 damage bit.

[Just call me AL]

1 hour ago, DiogoJorge said:

Rebecca doesn't need to use swords. 14 damage is still about half of the enemies HP in early chapters.

Too bad that Rebecca won't be able to deal 14 damage in the early chapters, amirite?

Quote

Lyn hits SPD 20 by lv 15 or so, which is only 5 levels from when she rejoins.

1, Lyn's Spd average at lvl 15 is 17 points, not 20 points. And 2, Lyn's not going to be at lvl 20 when she rejoins during Noble Lady of Caelin. Around Lvl 6 on the other hand... Let's just say that your assumption that Lyn will be at Lvl 20 coming out of her story shows that you tend to turtle a lot.

Quote

I don't see the problem of Rebecc being archer, as long as she causes damage, which she does, 14 damage after all.

Which never happens at any point without outright favoritism. You can even compare the stats that I posted a page ago to the stats that Rebecca would have at a reasonable level that she would be at by the time Rath rejoins, like lvl 15, if you don't believe me.

[DiogoJorge]

13 hours ago, Just call me AL said:

Too bad that Rebecca won't be able to deal 14 damage in the early chapters, amirite?

1, Lyn's Spd average at lvl 15 is 17 points, not 20 points. And 2, Lyn's not going to be at lvl 20 when she rejoins during Noble Lady of Caelin. Around Lvl 6 on the other hand... Let's just say that your assumption that Lyn will be at Lvl 20 coming out of her story shows that you tend to turtle a lot.

Which never happens at any point without outright favoritism. You can even compare the stats that I posted a page ago to the stats that Rebecca would have at a reasonable level that she would be at by the time Rath rejoins, like lvl 15, if you don't believe me.

No, you are wrong, since she still causes around 7, which proves usefull in the early chapters. and she's already doing 14 by doubling in chapter 17.

Still, pretty close, considering her growth, reaching 20 isn't far off. She rejoins at lv 10 with 14-15 SPD, which is still pretty good, I've never said that she would join at lv 20. I don't turtle either for I tank propely.

I don't play favourites, if a unit is good, I will use it.

Rebecca is lv 10 by chapter 17x, so reaching 15 is feasible by the time Rath joins.

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by DiogoJorge

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

No, you are wrong, since she still causes around 7, which proves usefull in the early chapters. and she's already doing 14 by doubling in chapter 17.

Still, pretty close, considering her growth, reaching 20 isn't far off. She rejoins at lv 10 with 14-15 SPD, which is still pretty good, I've never said that she would join at lv 20. I don't turtle either for I tank propely.

I don't play favourites, if a unit is good, I will use it.

Rebecca is lv 10 by chapter 17x, so reaching 15 is feasible by the time Rath joins.

 

Gotta have an answer for everything, do you? Looking at the stats, most enemies have at least 6 AS. Outside of the steel lance cav, the steel bow archers, the armors that she can't do much of anything to, and the hammer wielding fighter, she'd have to be at least level 8 on average to double much of anything. Which is a tall order when dealing with a unit that can only contribute on player phase unless you go completely out of your way for her sake. Also, 7 damage is closer to 1/4 or 1/3 of an enemy's health early on. And it likely won't allow most units to get kills without eating counters first.

To your credit, that's not far from her averages at that level. Still, personal experience means nothing - I could just as easily argue I had a Lyn that didn't get above 15 speed. Or did you forget that level ups are random???

Nice contradiction there, since you're here white knighting Rebecca, who most people here would see as anything but good...

Because, once again, you go completely out of your way for her sake.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Hanes]

This is full of pitfalls i think im too smol to walk here without falling.

Jokes aside, Lyn is shit, whats the point of doubling if you do  0 dmg? Will is a shit unit, rath is also shit except if you "train him" which doesnt mean theyre good, really Florina Kent and sAIN ARE ALREADY GOOD UNITS with no training required like Jagens, even tho florinas stats are low, she is a flier and is helpful for rescuing units or passing through hARD LAND, PLUS ITS ONLY Lyns mode so 10 chapters can be completed with just these 3, almost everything i see here seems to be the actual minority, not the majority, seriously watch Mekkkah's videos. The pitfall series and why Amelia is bad and also why lyn is bad video. (Lol join4d late, see ya)

 

But abour Rebecca, yep she sucks byebye

Edited June 10, 2018 by This boi uses Nino

[DiogoJorge]

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Gotta have an answer for everything, do you? Looking at the stats, most enemies have at least 6 AS. Outside of the steel lance cav, the steel bow archers, the armors that she can't do much of anything to, and the hammer wielding fighter, she'd have to be at least level 8 on average to double much of anything. Which is a tall order when dealing with a unit that can only contribute on player phase unless you go completely out of your way for her sake. Also, 7 damage is closer to 1/4 or 1/3 of an enemy's health early on. And it likely won't allow most units to get kills without eating counters first.

To your credit, that's not far from her averages at that level. Still, personal experience means nothing - I could just as easily argue I had a Lyn that didn't get above 15 speed. Or did you forget that level ups are random???

Nice contradiction there, since you're here white knighting Rebecca, who most people here would see as anything but good...

Because, once again, you go completely out of your way for her sake.

As long as I am right, I will always have an answer for everything.

Only early on. Later on enemies have SPD in the dozens, which most units can't double consistently until promotion.

Considering that she's lv 10 by chapter 17, that's simple enough. Rebecca has little issue doubling as a result. I don't need to go out of my way to do so, there are plenty of enemies for her to  help pick on, considering that she spares some units the trouble of being countered.

Considering that enemies have what? HP in 20's, 7 is good damage, and once she doubles she's shaving off half their health, until lv 15 or so when she starts to serve as a erase button against a good deal of enemies, as long they aren't promoted.

I'm not using personal experience, her averages pretty much defend my position. I didn't forget, you are the one who is assuming that I'm basing on personal experience.

There's no contradiction though. Rebecca is good, anyone who says otherwise is wrong and should relearn to play FE. It speaks lowly of Serenes Forest community if most think otherwise.

I don't need to go out of my way, it happens naturally, since there's plenty of enemies that she has the advantage over.

 

 

[DiogoJorge]

14 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Ignore 

I suppose I have to, we aren't going to reach an agreement, so I will just let him be and agree to disagree.

Edited June 10, 2018 by DiogoJorge

[DisobeyedCargo]

29 minutes ago, DiogoJorge said:

I suppose I have to, we aren't going to reach an agreement, so I will just let him be and agree to disagree.

Dude it was just an accidental post

i typed ignore as in to just ignore my post not levants. I thought about responding, but didn't feel like getting in a fight yet accidentally clicked post.

[ping]

1 hour ago, DiogoJorge said:

Only early on. Later on enemies have SPD in the dozens, which most units can't double consistently until promotion.

That's funny.

Enemies in chapter 28x (because that's the latest chapter listed in the thread):

Unpromoted Wyverns (lv.14) - 7-8 AS
Wyvern lords (lv. 8) - 12-13 AS
Shamans (lv. 14) - 0-2 AS
Druid (lv. 8) - 7 AS
Pirates (lv. 14) - at most 10 AS (most of them wield very heavy weapons)
Generals (lv. 6) - 5-7 AS
Mages (lv. 6) - 2-3 AS (zero for the Bolting mage)
Sage (lv. 14) - 10 AS
Snipers (lv.5 and 8) - 10-11 AS
Bishops (lv. not listed) - 6-7 AS
Peg knights (why did I even start listing the levels?) - 5-7 AS
Falcoknights - 8 AS
Cavaliers - 11 AS
Paladin - 12 AS
Mercs - 13-14 AS
Hero - 16 AS
Nomads - 13 AS

"in the dozens" indeed.

Only very few enemies in FE7's mid- to late game are all that fast (Valkyries in CoD comes to mind), so Rebecca doubling is hardly a unique feature. And no matter how good her stats are (and they really aren't anything special - Kent, for example trades 2 points of speed for a whole lot of survivability, a mount, 1-2 range, and full weapon triangle control; not to mention Raven's stats on HHM), Rebecca will almost never have an enemy phase better than "kill one enemy by placing her just in range". Meanwhile, units with good 1-2 range, like Raven or any Paladin, can always retaliate against multiple enemies, so even when they don't have the attack power to kill on EP, the ensueing PP mop-up is a whole lot easier than it would have been if there was one dead and a whole lot of unscathed enemies around.

Seriously, with your confidence, you should at least have figured out that it really isn't that hard to kill individual enemies in FE7. It's just not a game where strong PP action is heaviliy sought after - you'd want FE6 or the DS remakes for that - and Rebeccas averages are completely, well, average. And the effective damage multiplier is only x2, which iirc leads to funny stuff like Rebecca not one-rounding peg knights in chapter 12. And unless you specifically favour Rebecca over other units, her XP gain will be comparatively low because other units can fight multiple enemies during EP.

Edited June 10, 2018 by ping
accidentally posted an incomplete post

[DiogoJorge]

1 hour ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Dude it was just an accidental post

i typed ignore as in to just ignore my post not levants. I thought about responding, but didn't feel like getting in a fight yet accidentally clicked post.

Okay, no problem.

[Shadow Mir]

 

2 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

As long as I am right, I will always have an answer for everything.

Spoken like someone who's never had the idea that *gasp* they might actually be in the wrong cross their mind.

2 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

Only early on. Later on enemies have SPD in the dozens, which most units can't double consistently until promotion.

I call bullshit here - sure, there may be some fast units, but as @ping showed, most enemy units aren't gonna be speed demons, especially since they often use heavy weapons.

2 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

There's no contradiction though. Rebecca is good, anyone who says otherwise is wrong and should relearn to play FE. It speaks lowly of Serenes Forest community if most think otherwise.

I would not say stuff like this - playing the "I'm right, and everyone else is wrong" card makes you very hard to take seriously, and it does not help your case.

2 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

Considering that she's lv 10 by chapter 17, that's simple enough. Rebecca has little issue doubling as a result. I don't need to go out of my way to do so, there are plenty of enemies for her to  help pick on, considering that she spares some units the trouble of being countered.

The burden of proof is on you since you seen to be treating her like she's the best thing since sliced bread. I have a hard time seeing Rebecca get to that level without massive favoritism, especially since she either can't damage bosses or she does piddle damage to them (try 3 against their 30+ HP). Also, see below.

2 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

Considering that enemies have what? HP in 20's, 7 is good damage, and once she doubles she's shaving off half their health, until lv 15 or so when she starts to serve as a erase button against a good deal of enemies, as long they aren't promoted.

7 isn't what I'd call good damage when most units you have at that point would not be able to finish off enemies without being countered. Assuming that Marcus or Oswin isn't one of the units doing so, even if Rebecca chips, you'd still need two or even three units to finish off an enemy. And I have trouble seeing Rebecca grow into this erase button you laud her as without going out of your way to ensure she can keep up.

2 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

I don't need to go out of my way, it happens naturally, since there's plenty of enemies that she has the advantage over.

Because everything will be attacking her at 2 range, right? Oh wait...

2 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

I'm not using personal experience, her averages pretty much defend my position. I didn't forget, you are the one who is assuming that I'm basing on personal experience.

And yet when you bring up stuff like Lyn capping speed by level 15 as if it's a guarantee, you seem to fall into that trap.

[DiogoJorge]

1 hour ago, ping said:

That's funny.

Enemies in chapter 28x (because that's the latest chapter listed in the thread):

Unpromoted Wyverns (lv.14) - 7-8 AS
Wyvern lords (lv. 8) - 12-13 AS
Shamans (lv. 14) - 0-2 AS
Druid (lv. 8) - 7 AS
Pirates (lv. 14) - at most 10 AS (most of them wield very heavy weapons)
Generals (lv. 6) - 5-7 AS
Mages (lv. 6) - 2-3 AS (zero for the Bolting mage)
Sage (lv. 14) - 10 AS
Snipers (lv.5 and 8) - 10-11 AS
Bishops (lv. not listed) - 6-7 AS
Peg knights (why did I even start listing the levels?) - 5-7 AS
Falcoknights - 8 AS
Cavaliers - 11 AS
Paladin - 12 AS
Mercs - 13-14 AS
Hero - 16 AS
Nomads - 13 AS

"in the dozens" indeed.

Only very few enemies in FE7's mid- to late game are all that fast (Valkyries in CoD comes to mind), so Rebecca doubling is hardly a unique feature. And no matter how good her stats are (and they really aren't anything special - Kent, for example trades 2 points of speed for a whole lot of survivability, a mount, 1-2 range, and full weapon triangle control; not to mention Raven's stats on HHM), Rebecca will almost never have an enemy phase better than "kill one enemy by placing her just in range". Meanwhile, units with good 1-2 range, like Raven or any Paladin, can always retaliate against multiple enemies, so even when they don't have the attack power to kill on EP, the ensueing PP mop-up is a whole lot easier than it would have been if there was one dead and a whole lot of unscathed enemies around.

Seriously, with your confidence, you should at least have figured out that it really isn't that hard to kill individual enemies in FE7. It's just not a game where strong PP action is heaviliy sought after - you'd want FE6 or the DS remakes for that - and Rebeccas averages are completely, well, average. And the effective damage multiplier is only x2, which iirc leads to funny stuff like Rebecca not one-rounding peg knights in chapter 12. And unless you specifically favour Rebecca over other units, her XP gain will be comparatively low because other units can fight multiple enemies during EP.

Please, It takes much longer for most units to have enough SPD to double. I'm in chapter 17x, and so far, the only ones capable of doubling consistently are Lyn, Marcus, Raven, Rebecca and Kent, almost everyone else can't double. I might be missing someone, but there aren't many units capable of doubling at this point. It's not until around chapter 22 or so that they become more common. 

I don't favour her, she is usefull in softening enemies, so she usually gains enough levels. Just in Chapter 17, she had a good dose of killing archers on the other side of the wall. By putting her in their range, she baited them to her leaving my other units free to attack something else.

[DiogoJorge]

2 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

Spoken like someone who's never had the idea that *gasp* they might actually be in the wrong cross their mind.

I call bullshit here - sure, there may be some fast units, but as @ping showed, most enemy units aren't gonna be speed demons, especially since they often use heavy weapons.

I would not say stuff like this - playing the "I'm right, and everyone else is wrong" card makes you very hard to take seriously, and it does not help your case.

The burden of proof is on you since you seen to be treating her like she's the best thing since sliced bread. I have a hard time seeing Rebecca get to that level without massive favoritism, especially since she either can't damage bosses or she does piddle damage to them (try 3 against their 30+ HP). Also, see below.

7 isn't what I'd call good damage when most units you have at that point would not be able to finish off enemies without being countered. Assuming that Marcus or Oswin isn't one of the units doing so, even if Rebecca chips, you'd still need two or even three units to finish off an enemy. And I have trouble seeing Rebecca grow into this erase button you laud her as without going out of your way to ensure she can keep up.

Because everything will be attacking her at 2 range, right? Oh wait...

And yet when you bring up stuff like Lyn capping speed by level 15 as if it's a guarantee, you seem to fall into that trap.

I know I'm right, since it not only crossed my mind, but I refuted it.

Most enemies aren't SPD demons, but they aren't as slow as you imply. The fact that only units with around 10 SPD or more can double or so is proof that they aren't as slow as you would want to make me believe.  Even then, you need at least 15 SPD to truely double consistently for most of the game.

I don't care if you take me seriously or not. I don't need to help my case, only to state the truth, whatever they agree with me or not, it's their problem.

I already proved it. She causes good damage due to doubling. It's not masssive favouritism, by that logic, guess Guy is favoured as well, since he's level 10 as well, same for Kent. The only thing you are right about is that she isn't a good boss killer, since most are Knights or Generals, which she lacks the Steel or Silver Bow yet to do do any decent damage to them, but otherwise, she is usually causing good damage.

7 damage on the earliest chapters is good damage, whatever you want to call it. Once she starts doubling, that becomes 14 or more due to both STR and SPD raising fast enough. I don't need to go out of my way to do so, she provides with plenty of opportunities for ranged attacks, specially since enemies on the other side of the wall are a thing.

Archers do, and it's simple enough to put her in the limit of enemy ranged attacks.

I didn't say that it was guaranteed. Averages aren't guaranteed either, so you can't use that as argument either by your logic.

If you are finished, then let's agree to disagree, because this topic has been going for too long now and since neither of us will be convinced, this isn't going anywhere.

[Just call me AL]

3 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

As long as I am right, I will always have an answer for everything.

Except you haven't provided one shred of evidence proving that your points have validity. Whereas your opposition had provided evidence aplenty. So we're  still patiently waiting for your evidence.

Quote

Only early on. Later on enemies have SPD in the dozens, which most units can't double consistently until promotion.

This is the same game where Marcus, on average, can double most enemies all the way to the end of the game. Are you sure you're not lying about "most units aren't able to consistently double enemies until promotion"? It's for that very reason that @ping posted those enemy stats not too long ago.

Quote

Considering that she's lv 10 by chapter 17, that's simple enough. Rebecca has little issue doubling as a result. I don't need to go out of my way to do so, there are plenty of enemies for her to  help pick on, considering that she spares some units the trouble of being countered.

That's just it, though. She isn't lvl 10 by Ch 17. At least, not on an efficient playthrough of FE7. In fact, very few units, including Rebecca, are past that level even with doing the very thing that warranted this topic considered. 

Quote

Considering that enemies have what? HP in 20's, 7 is good damage, and once she doubles she's shaving off half their health, until lv 15 or so when she starts to serve as a erase button against a good deal of enemies, as long they aren't promoted.

Except by the time you even have her to the point where she can serve as an "erase button" for a good deal of enemies, Louise has already joined and obsoleted Rebecca.

Quote

I'm not using personal experience, her averages pretty much defend my position. I didn't forget, you are the one who is assuming that I'm basing on personal experience.

Says the guy who acts like Rebecca is going to be killing things left and right without much effort from the moment she joins.

Quote

There's no contradiction though. Rebecca is good, anyone who says otherwise is wrong and should relearn to play FE. It speaks lowly of Serenes Forest community if most think otherwise.

In what gameplay videos do you see Rebecca used in an LTC? Such as this one, since you mentioned 17 and 17x.

 

Tell me what you see about Rebecca being used here, and what that says about her uses in these chapters.

Also, it's not just the Serenes Forest community that thinks that Rebecca is a bad unit. Outside here, I've even seen someone who thinks that she's worse than Wil, I.E. one of the very worst units in the whole game.

Quote

I don't need to go out of my way, it happens naturally, since there's plenty of enemies that she has the advantage over.

Only with favoritism. And even then, as @ping pointed out, said "advantages" aren't unique enough to warrant merit.

[eclipse]

@DiogoJorge When arguing stuff like this, FE becomes a numbers game.  SF has the character stat averages at any given level, which is what's used when determining things like "will this unit double X" and whatnot.  You're free to think what you want, but if the numbers are against you, it doesn't make you right.

Also, the little plus sign next to the Quote button enables Multiquote, so you don't have to post a bunch of times in a row.

[ping]

8 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

Please, It takes much longer for most units to have enough SPD to double. I'm in chapter 17x, and so far, the only ones capable of doubling consistently are Lyn, Marcus, Raven, Rebecca and Kent, almost everyone else can't double. I might be missing someone, but there aren't many units capable of doubling at this point. It's not until around chapter 22 or so that they become more common.

Good for you to accidently choose one of the few chapters with fairly high-leveled enemies to make your point. Enemies in 17x have higher attack speed than those in chapter 21, for example. But that doesn't change the fact that Rebecca's stats are not exceptional in any way.

Level 10 Erk has the same average speed as Rebecca.
Level 10 Kent has almost the same average speed as Rebecca (11.05 vs. 11.4) and between Lyn Mode and better EP than Rebecca, he is likely to have a level lead over her.
Level 10 Florina is faster (13.95 vs. 11.4), stronger and slightly more durable (same HP, +1 Def) than Rebecca.
Level 6-7 Lucius is as fast as Level 10 Rebecca.
Rebecca needs to be Level 16 to match base level (!!!) Raven in speed.
On Level 10, Rebecca catches up to base level Marcus's speed, while obviously being drastically inferior in literally every other aspect.

Stop pretending that Rebecca is that that incredible speed demon. She is not. Her speed is decent, but nowhere near spectacular. Rebecca is a unit that pairs above-average speed with meh Str, bad survivability (the same as Florina, but with 1 point less Def and no Lyn Mode Angelic Robe access) and being locked to the worst weapon type in the game (not only depriving her from any meaningful EP, but bows also have lower might than lances and axes, which doesn't pair well with her below-average Str). In an EP-heavy game such as Blazing Sword, that puts her firmly at the bottom of any reasonable gameplay-based tier list. Well, not the bottom bottom, but you don't need a calculator to keep count of the units that are even worse than her.

8 hours ago, DiogoJorge said:

I don't favour her, she is usefull in softening enemies, so she usually gains enough levels. Just in Chapter 17, she had a good dose of killing archers on the other side of the wall. By putting her in their range, she baited them to her leaving my other units free to attack something else.

Ah yes, one situation specifically tailored for her in which Rebecca is as good as a cavalier wielding a javelin. Quality unit right here.

Archers in chapter 17 have 6-7 AS, 25-27 HP, and 4-5 Def. To reliably one-round them, you need 11 AS and 19 Attack, which would be 13 Str with an Iron Bow. Rebecca does not have 13 Str before promotion. With an Steel Bow, she'd only need 10 Str (which she reaches on level 16) and 15 Speed (9 weight vs. 5 con), which she also reaches on level 16. On average, of course - the likelyhood that she reaches both those benchmarks at level 16 is probably around 25%. Not that this would matter since she's not level 16 at this point of the game.

So basically - why not use one of your cavs to perform just as well as Rebecca does, have an easier time catching up with the rest of the group (potentially ferrying Matthew to the other treasure chests, as well) and provide more significant help for the rest of the chapter? Or even one of your fighters? They only need 12 Str to two-shot the archers, which Bartre reaches at level 8. And he only needs to proc Speed once to avoid being doubled by any of them, which makes him like 50% more durable than Lv. 10 Rebecca (34 vs. 22 HP / 6 vs. 4-5 Def). That's right, I'm comparing Bartre favourably to Rebecca. Bartre. In a scenario that's supposedly stacked in Rebecca's favour.

Quality unit right here.

[DiogoJorge]

3 hours ago, eclipse said:

@DiogoJorge When arguing stuff like this, FE becomes a numbers game.  SF has the character stat averages at any given level, which is what's used when determining things like "will this unit double X" and whatnot.  You're free to think what you want, but if the numbers are against you, it doesn't make you right.

Also, the little plus sign next to the Quote button enables Multiquote, so you don't have to post a bunch of times in a row.

But their averages look good, so how is it against me?

Thanks for the information.

[eclipse]

13 minutes ago, DiogoJorge said:

But their averages look good, so how is it against me?

Thanks for the information.

How much effort does it take to get Rebecca from where she is up to those averages?  What happens if you put the same amount of effort into another character (like your avatar)?

[DiogoJorge]

5 minutes ago, eclipse said:

How much effort does it take to get Rebecca from where she is up to those averages?  What happens if you put the same amount of effort into another character (like your avatar)?

Very little if at all, it comes  naturally and pretty much all the units that matter are at lv 10 or close to as well, if not higher like Hector does. There are no avatars in Blazing Sword, unless you count Mark as one, which isn't a unit.

Edited June 11, 2018 by DiogoJorge

[eclipse]

2 minutes ago, DiogoJorge said:

Very little if at all, it comes  naturally and pretty much all the units that matter are at lv 10 or close to as well, if not higher like Hector does. There are no avatars in Blazing Sword, unless you count Mark as one, which isn't a unit.

You answered the first part, though if it's "very little", I'm gonna shove that effort into Wil, because he amuses me.  But that's not the point.

"Avatar", in this case, is that picture under your name.  So what happens if you train Kent the same way you train Rebecca?

[DiogoJorge]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

You answered the first part, though if it's "very little", I'm gonna shove that effort into Wil, because he amuses me.  But that's not the point.

"Avatar", in this case, is that picture under your name.  So what happens if you train Kent the same way you train Rebecca?

He ends up being better, I already stated that Kent is the 3rd best unit in the game.