Should story-based promotions come back?

[Fryer]

As in a Lord's promotion is entirely based on the plot (i,e Eliwood, Hector, Ike, etc). I know SoV did this but it was a remake of Gaiden anyways. 

[Shadow Mir]

Hell to the no. The inconvenience they are from a gameplay perspective EASILY outweighs what good can come of them.

[Gebby]

I like how it adds to the atmosphere, but it can be inconvenient.

Depends on if they can balance it well.

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

Eh....I'd go with no especially if I want to do a "no promotion" run of the game as cool as it is in certain scenarios I'd like to fully be in control of when I upgraded my units.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Modamy]

I think it really depends on when it takes place in the game. For instance Ike's promotion seems pretty well paced for the average player as it comes at a time when most people have just capped him or have gotten close to capping.Everyone seems to know Roy's is poorly paced.While the main lord suffers it the worst Eliwood and Hector both suffer because of a late promotion. Eliwood pretty desperately needed his mount to be relevant and getting it so late especially when so many people seem to favor giving the first heaven seal to Lyn. Micaiah's forced promotion to tier 2 comes at a pretty decent time but her third tier promotion comes just before entering endgame. For me Micaiah pretty much becomes a staff bot but the fact that her weapon ranks get locked is kind of annoying since it forces me to buy some of the many arms scrolls on sale at that point.

All in all I'm not strongly against forced promotions but for them to work out well it depends on the pacing of the game and the ability of the unit to get experience.

[Chconroy]

Yes, but if they draw from the instances when it worked well and not when it was poorly placed. I think story-based promotions make for cool moments in the story and for the character promoting, but they've proved to be inconvenient many times (Binding Blade and for the main lord of Blazing Blade). The instances where I'd draw for any future story promotions are Sacred Stones (which gave you the option to decline the event and get an item for later use), Path of Radiance (which I feel came at the perfect time gameplay wise), and Shadows of Valentia to a lesser extent (though it worked there because of the unorthodox class system). I do think they're worth keeping around, since seeing a lord promote as an event is a more impactful moment than just buying a Master Seal and tossing it into their inventory.

[Slumber]

I think there should be a soft-lock on Lord promotions. As in, you have to reach a certain point in the story before a Lord can promote, and they can choose not to until they're ready. And obviously the opportunity should be given early enough that you won't be running around with a level 20 lord for 10 chapters. 

I feel like Awakening intended on doing this, but at some point the developers said "Fuck it" and let Chrom promote using normal methods. I say this because Chrom can be running around with the completed Shield of Seals in his promoted state well before that happens in the story. 

[Light Strategist]

What if the promotion was fixed at a certain point but you could still promote before then?

So if you hadn't promoted yet you'd get the promotion, but if you had then the event could go a little differently and perhaps give you a unique weapon or something.

[Magical Glace]

It's great storywise, but it needs to be done at a good time so that doesn't hold the lord back gameplaywise.  Ike does this pretty well, both in FE9 and FE10, but he's the only storybased promotion I think that about.  So uh, try to not make it 4 chapters to endgame or something.

[ChickenBits]

Depends on they how they do it since we have good and bad examples of story based promotions. From a purely story perspective they have impact but from a gameplay perspective it can potentially ruin a lord's combat capabilities. It would have to be well placed within the story and be optional like the fe 8 lords. Personally I would like to see their return because it gets me more attached to the lords since it's a powerful moment for them after everything they have been through.

 

[Modamy]

39 minutes ago, Chconroy said:

Yes, but if they draw from the instances when it worked well and not when it was poorly placed. I think story-based promotions make for cool moments in the story and for the character promoting, but they've proved to be inconvenient many times (Binding Blade and for the main lord of Blazing Blade). The instances where I'd draw for any future story promotions are Sacred Stones (which gave you the option to decline the event and get an item for later use), Path of Radiance (which I feel came at the perfect time gameplay wise), and Shadows of Valentia to a lesser extent (though it worked there because of the unorthodox class system). I do think they're worth keeping around, since seeing a lord promote as an event is a more impactful moment than just buying a Master Seal and tossing it into their inventory.

Well of course it should be based on the instances where it worked rather than where it didn't and from what other posts are saying it's pretty much only Ike's that worked. Though I think that the lord's promotion should be some impact when the lord promotes since they are the main character and not like with Chrom where he can just promote 10 chapters into his game. It really just depends on two factors; when it happens in the story and if the lord can reasonably reach it in time. Ike can reliably one round every enemy that comes at him from 1 range and thus has no trouble reaching level 20 before his promotion. Whereas Micaiah constantly needs to be fed kills because there is no way she is staying out on the front lines and standing up to more than 1 opponent, but even she gets a map and a Gotoh in black armor to assist her in letting her reach level 20.

[Arthur97]

No. They are often held back a little too long. I mean, if, say, Chrom had a story promotion at the end/beginning of chapter 10/11, it wouldn't be so bad.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Chconroy said:

Yes, but if they draw from the instances when it worked well and not when it was poorly placed.

Of which there was all of two (and both happened with the same guy).

2 hours ago, Modamy said:

I think it really depends on when it takes place in the game. For instance Ike's promotion seems pretty well paced for the average player as it comes at a time when most people have just capped him or have gotten close to capping.Everyone seems to know Roy's is poorly paced.While the main lord suffers it the worst Eliwood and Hector both suffer because of a late promotion. Eliwood pretty desperately needed his mount to be relevant and getting it so late especially when so many people seem to favor giving the first heaven seal to Lyn. Micaiah's forced promotion to tier 2 comes at a pretty decent time but her third tier promotion comes just before entering endgame. For me Micaiah pretty much becomes a staff bot but the fact that her weapon ranks get locked is kind of annoying since it forces me to buy some of the many arms scrolls on sale at that point.

While everyone says Roy's is poorly placed, I'd honestly say that if your name isn't Ike, odds are you weren't much better off.

[Captain Karnage]

well maybe they could do it like Echoes, where the ability is unlocked in the story

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

If they wanted to do it make it like Sacred Stones where you had a choice to promote or not (if not) make it a story seal item you can use later that'll make it work.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Von Ithipathachai]

21 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Of which there was all of two (and both happened with the same guy).

So they can just draw from those.  I don't get how quantity is relevant.

At any rate, I agree more with Slumber on how it should be handled.  The real problem I have with story-based promotion is that it forces you to promote when your Lord may not quite be ready.  Of course, not being ready is usually not an issue because of how late the worse story-based promotions are, but the possibility is still there.  The system Slumber described would remove this one little issue entirely.

[Shadow Mir]

10 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

So they can just draw from those.  I don't get how quantity is relevant.

At any rate, I agree more with Slumber on how it should be handled.  The real problem I have with story-based promotion is that it forces you to promote when your Lord may not quite be ready.  Of course, not being ready is usually not an issue because of how late the worse story-based promotions are, but the possibility is still there.  The system Slumber described would remove this one little issue entirely.

Maybe it isn't, but that's still far more bad precedent than I would like in the case of story promotions... and it thus makes me EXTREMELY hesitant to agree with any stuff in favour of bringing them back.

[Morian]

No.

Just give me the upgrated character portrait and that's it.

[Modamy]

I think the only other way a story promotion would work out for everyone is if the lord was entirely a support unit. Like a dancer or staff user. I mean what harm is there in having their stats locked when they aren’t a combat unit?

[Crisaria]

I think it adds a lot to story, and if it's handled well and isn't absurdly early or late, then it doesn't impact gameplay much either.

Also, not sure if there will ever be a support unit MC.
Even if there was one that will be a dancer, they've made dancers combat units as well with the recent installments.
As for staff unit, I'd definitely say stats still matter for them.

[thecrimsonflash]

I personally lean slightly on the side of maybe not, they tend to be inconvenient in the context of gameplay unless placed very carefully at a time in which the player has enough time to get the lord (or other) capped before said promotion, but as a whole I think it can hurt some aspects of gameplay however in some examples like PoR it is almost never felt by the player on account of the promote coming early enough so that you only have about 5 chapters at most where the lord is capped and completely ready for promotion but not so late that the player has no time to enjoy it, of course there is roy which is the opposite of a well timed class change.

I do however have great respect for the thematic elements of class changing, I find that it is used to signify a "turning of the tides" in the story, which can be quite nice in the thematic sense, class changing is a very significant thing in most rpgs, in fire emblem class changing holds an enormous level of significance even for grunts, gameplay wise, class changing is not very good when thinking of player inconvenience just having the level cap being 40 could be plenty, but in a game as character driven as fire emblem class changing has great thematic importance, so I guess in a story context, I wouldn't mind if its handled well enough, I prefer to enjoy my class changes, but like @Chconroy noted, a plot relevant class change does have plenty of benefits, the impact is much greater than just giving the lord a master seal and leaving it at that, I would also say that it can help continuity as well, it is a bit awkward for the cutscenes to never depict the growth that comes with a class change in spite of the fact that the lord was class changed since chapter 12.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I feel like Fire Emblem games that allow you to grind between chapters suffer from these promotions more than the rest. And naturally the earlier games are a wealth of examples of how not to do it, so we can let this trend rest. I like the idea of a protagonist gaining power concurrent to a shift in their ability or confidence as a leader. But such a shift doesn't have to be a promotion specifically. Look at Fates, the Yato upgrades are a good stand-in idea. Protagonists having a weak version of their ultimate weapon from the start of the game is a very new concept, let's make use of that.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Glennstavos

[FuranSuwa]

Maybe not for the Lords or a restricted class, but i'd love if we could unlock promotions. Sometimes just giving the character a master seal is a little weird (i remember when i first played i was like "that's all ?"). Since some evolution have paths it could be great if we could unlock some of them through story or mission. For example having black mages visit a witch village to add the witch class to the sorcerer and dark knight options. It could be great to introduce new classes with some context (a little bit like they did with the DLC).

Or maybe a special class for the lord, like if you do it anytime they promote from sword to sword+lance lord, but if you do the chapter with the old mage master it unlock an alternative promotion with sword+magic

I think alternative/bonus classes that don't prevent promotion for those who want to do it can be a good reward for those who wait a little.

Edited February 10, 2018 by FuranSuwa

[god_ewan]

No, the only way it could work would be if they give you the promotion item early on in the story so that you can use it when your ready. For example, imagine if Seth told Eirika and Ephraim the truth about their bracelets earlier on in the story and you could use them to promote whenever. However, I'd rather see them do more stuff like the Yato in Fates, where it gets more powerful as you progress in the story.

[YingofDarkness]

No. There are too many ways it could go wrong. If you wait until late game the lord is going to be considered useless, and labeled as one of the worst ones purely because they are such a pain to get trough the story chapters alive (unless pair up or there isn't any forced deployment). Even if you implement it early enough, you'd have to limit (or remove) the ways a person can grind or else it will still be seen as a pain. This one is more of a personal one because I know there are people on here who don't want grinding to be a thing, and would be happier with this approach. However, I like to grind purely because I like to see as many supports as I can and not be limited in who I can use in the play through. The only way it can really work is if the character you are forcing promotion on is already OP in their base class, and it doesn't matter much because they can keep up with everybody do too how good they are. Preferably if they want to do a big scene similar to this they just upgrade the lord's weapon. It might not give as much of an oomph but it inconveniences the player a lot less I think.