SERENES POKEMON DRAFT LEAGUE: Sign-Up Thread

[Shoblongoo]

So I've participated in one of these on another forum. And I want to bring it to SerenesForest, because its really cool and I think we have a large enough community of Pokemon Players here to make it work.

I'm looking to start up our very own Pokemon Draft League

...here's how it works...

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A draft League must consist of an even number of 8 to 12 players. These players will select pokemon in a draft style format (i.e. once a pokemon has been drafted by one player, no other player can draft it). There are 20 rounds to the draft.

Each player drafts pool will consist of the following:

• 4 pokemon from standard OU or BL
• 4 Pokemon from UU or BL2
• 4 Pokemon from RU or BL3
• 4 Pokemon from NU or BL4
• 4 Pokemon from PU 

The players will then face off in tournament style brackets on the Pokemon Showdown server. Their teams may only be constructed from Pokemon in their draft pool. 

Trading with other players is permissible after the first 2 rounds. 

• All trades are final
• You can only trade with the same player once per draft
• You can only trade for a draft pick for another draft pick in the same tier 

______________

MY GOAL IS TO GET AT LEAST 7 OTHER PLAYERS SIGNED UP IN THIS THREAD, then if that happens, get a seperate thread going for the actual draft itself.  

I will explain more rules and organize time for drafting if we get an adequate number of sign-ups in this thread.

In the event that there are more than 12 sign-ups, only the first 12 sign-ups can participate in the draft. (additional players may sub in if a player has to drop out)

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Edited February 9, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Shoblongoo]

[RESERVED FOR SIGN-UPS]

1) Shoblongoo

2) Emerson

3) Deltre

4) Nym

5) Disobeyed Cargo

6) Michelaar 

7) X-Naut

8) Ether

9)

10)

11)

12)

Edited February 11, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Emerson]

In.

[Deltre]

In

[Nym]

I could if I get my eeveelution team

[Shoblongoo]

23 minutes ago, Nym said:

I could if I get my eeveelution team

...I mean I'm not going to tell you its a good idea to give priority picks to the eeveelutions. But there's 1 in UU, 3 in RU, 1 in NU, and 3 in PU

So you could theoretically draft them all if no one else wants them--go for it. 

You in?

 

52 minutes ago, Deltre said:

In

On the List.

 

2 hours ago, Emerson said:

In.

On the List.

[Nym]

4 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

...I mean I'm not going to tell you its a good idea to give priority picks to the eeveelutions. But there's 1 in UU, 3 in RU, 1 in NU, and 3 in PU

So you could theoretically draft them all if no one else wants them--go for it. 

You in?

Sure, also I'm used to getting stomp by Garchomp... so I learned to play only for fun :P

[DisobeyedCargo]

When and what time will this be going on?

i am so in. My Darmanitan will Nuke all you guys 

[Michelaar]

Not like I can Pokémon but I am in.

[Shoblongoo]

55 minutes ago, Nym said:

Sure, also I'm used to getting stomp by Garchomp... so I learned to play only for fun :P

added

 

51 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

Not like I can Pokémon but I am in.

added

 

52 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

When and what time will this be going on?

i am so in. My Darmanitan will Nuke all you guys 

It takes a long time, so I'd like to get started as soon as we have enough people.

To prevent the draft from getting backed up and taking forever, what I'd like to do is implement some kind of rule designating certain hours of the day "draft periods"

And making it so that if its your turn to draft and you go more than--say 15 minutes without making your pick, you forfeit your spot in the draft order for the round and the next drafter(s) get to pick before  you, until you show up.

....Now the obvious problem is that if we have players from all over the world drafting from different time zones, we can't make it where one person is expected to draft at 4:00 in the morning or in the middle of a school or work day while everyone else is drafting on normal hours. That would be unfair.

So we have to figure out where everyone is at and work that into the logistics of what we're doing here.
_____________________


The other thing I'll want to do before we start drafting is clarify any house rules on BANS.

No Ubers--thats a given.

I'm also going to implementing a House Rule that if a majority of players vote to ban a pokemon from the draft pool before drafting starts, that pokemon will not be draftable.

And I guess this will also be the thread where we put in votes for bans. (I'll edit the OP to indicate what, if anything, is being banned from the pool).
_________

I'll start off by putting in one vote to ban (so if we wind up with 8 players, thats at least 4 more votes needed to ban this guy)  

[BAN] Greninja

Explanation: Too good when you aren't trying to cover every pokemon in the game with just 4 moves, and are only trying to cover the limited number of top tier draft picks in your opponents pool. Give it Protean + the moves to cover your opponents top picks for super effective damage. Its ability to pick-and-choose what it wants to kill is unmatched, and makes it pretty disgustingly broken in this format. 
  

Not voting to ban anything else, but I'll put this under advisement. Other pokemon that I've seen players argue should be banned in draft include:

Mega Charizard Y, Mega Sableye, Mega Diance, Tapu Lele, Landorus-T, Volcarona, Celesteela, and Hoopa-U

I personally am of the opinion the only otherwise non-uber pokemon whose outright broken in draft is Greninja. But that's for the players of the pool to decide.  

Edited February 9, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[DisobeyedCargo]

I think we should ban any Pokémon that are currently under a suspect test under smogon in any tier we are using 

[Shoblongoo]

1 minute ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

I think we should ban any Pokémon that are currently under a suspect test under smogon in any tier we are using 

What would that be at the moment?

[Emerson]

7 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

What would that be at the moment?

The ones I know are Passimian and Emboar, but I believe there are a few others?

EDIT: Seems the others I was thinking of were finished, so for now I believe the only ones are Emboar and Passimian.

For the two I thought might still be testing, Breloom went down to UU, Buzzwole stayed in BL.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Emerson

[DisobeyedCargo]

1 minute ago, Emerson said:

The ones I know are Passimian and Emboar, but I believe there are a few others?

I remember hearing about breloom and buzzwole being tested 

[Shoblongoo]

...I see...

I'm not going to vote to ban any of those. If there is no majority vote to ban they will pooled according to their official tiering at the time we start the draft, and any subsequent change in teiring will be deemed untimely.

I was under the impression that the suspect test on Breloom and Buzzwole was over--Breloom officially dropped to UU  and Buzzwole is staying in BL.

I could be wrong though. I'll double-check. 
 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[X-Naut]

In. Gonna suggest we consider banning Tapu Lele because auto-Psychic Terrain is ridiculously strong.

WRT suspected Pokemon I don't think we should ban them, rather choose where they belong before the draft starts and stick with it. Tiers are constantly shifting and with the team sizes we get one or two Pokemon changing tiers isn't going to be that game-breaking.

Also what's the policy on Z-moves? They're an incredibly powerful tool and many draft leagues limit the number of Pokemon per team that can use Z-moves, and certain moves (omniboosts for example) are straight up banned.

[Shoblongoo]

7 minutes ago, X-Naut said:

In. Gonna suggest we consider banning Tapu Lele because auto-Psychic Terrain is ridiculously strong.

WRT suspected Pokemon I don't think we should ban them, rather choose where they belong before the draft starts and stick with it. Tiers are constantly shifting and with the team sizes we get one or two Pokemon changing tiers isn't going to be that game-breaking.

Also what's the policy on Z-moves? They're an incredibly powerful tool and many draft leagues limit the number of Pokemon per team that can use Z-moves, and certain moves (omniboosts for example) are straight up banned.

-Standard OU rules for boosts and Z moves, unless otherwise agreed upon

-If its a close vote, I could be persuaded to vote [BAN] on Tapu Lele. Her power and coverage is pretty ridiculous. And shes not slow or vulnerable priority and weak U-turns, like Hoopa-U. 

I take it this means you're in?

[X-Naut]

Yeah, I am. I have some other thoughts I'd like to share:

• Agreed on the decision to ban Greninja. Besides Protean builds there's also Battle Bond which adds another element of unpredictability.
• What's your stance on Mega Evolutions? Smogon tiers Megas separately and most drafts do as well, with the typical rule being Mega must hold its stone and the non-Mega cannot hold its stone. Some leagues also do things like limit you to one per team or require you to Mega Evolve immediately.
• Team size. 20 Pokemon per team is an awful lot, let alone 25. Most leagues generally allow 10-12 Pokemon per team and don't go above 15; I'd suggest three per tier instead of four or five. Having more Pokemon means more options, while having less means the draft is shorter, lower tier Pokemon will see more use and counterteaming becomes more effective.

[Shoblongoo]

27 minutes ago, X-Naut said:

Yeah, I am. I have some other thoughts I'd like to share:

• Agreed on the decision to ban Greninja. Besides Protean builds there's also Battle Bond which adds another element of unpredictability.
• What's your stance on Mega Evolutions? Smogon tiers Megas separately and most drafts do as well, with the typical rule being Mega must hold its stone and the non-Mega cannot hold its stone. Some leagues also do things like limit you to one per team or require you to Mega Evolve immediately.
• Team size. 20 Pokemon per team is an awful lot, let alone 25. Most leagues generally allow 10-12 Pokemon per team and don't go above 15; I'd suggest three per tier instead of four or five. Having more Pokemon means more options, while having less means the draft is shorter, lower tier Pokemon will see more use and counterteaming becomes more effective.

Adding you to the list. 

On second thought---yeah 5 per tier may be a bit excessive. Four per tier is what I've done the last few times with 10 or 12 man pools; I was thinking maybe do 5 if we only get 8 players to   try and keep the number of pokemon being drafted at near the same level. 

But you bring up a good point--thats going to make the lower tier picks too meaningless.

In my experience, even with 4 per tier, RU and NU mons can still be highly relevant. Sometimes you really need the hazard setter or spinner on your squad and you didn't draft one until RU. Sometimes you need a pokemon with a very specific offensive typing and speed tier or raw bulk and set of resistances and you didn't draft OU or UU mons that fit the criteria--but you have a Raichu ready to do the work of an electric type with at least base 105 speed, or a Poliwrath ready to step into the role of something thats reasonably bulky and resists both dark and fire moves.

3 per tier I feel like just makes the pools really shallow though, but you're right, 5 is too much (changing the OP).

------

The Rule on Mega Evolutions is that  they count as separate draft picks from their base forms, if they are tiered separately. A mega and a base form count as one pick if they are in the same tier.

Examples:

• If you draft Latios, Tyranitar, or Garchomp in the OU round. You may use them in either their base forms or mega forms, because both their base and mega forms are OU. 
• If you draft Mega Lopunny or Mega Charizard or Mega Medicham in the OU round, you can only use these pokemon in their mega forms when you build your team. You can not run any other item besides their megastone (i.e no choice band switcheroo Lopunny). The base forms are still available for drafting in their respective tiers.
• If you drafted Lopunny in PU but did not draft Mega Lopunny in OU, You can not use Mega Lopunny, because you did not draft it.
  
  Does that make sense?
  
   

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Deltre]

As much as I'd love to grab Gren, I agree wholeheartedly agree with a BAN. Drafts should encourage some out-of-the-box thinking IMO, but there's only so much you can do against Greninja unless you can perfectly predict the set at team preview. Even then, you still need to play pretty much perfectly too. There's only a handful of answers to begin with, and if I know exactly which answers my opponent has/can bring due to the draft ruleset, then it's pretty easy to tailor a Gren set that can beat almost any team as needed.

To he rest of the listed examples I say Do Not Ban, and here's some quick reasoning:

Mega Charizard Y: If anything, X is scarier despite immediate power of Y. Between stealth rock, base 100 SPD being not that great, flash fire mons, thick fat mons, AV, (Scarf) Rock Slide/Stone Edge, opposing weather, the list goes on. Essentially, even if you need to resort to an unorthodox set, there's plenty of things to choose from that can beat/neuter this and still be relevant in non-Charizard Y match-ups. If someone drafts Char-Y, my first thought is gonna be 'how do I beat this' and I think that it's fair to expect that kinda of mentality when deciding draft picks/counter-picks.

Mega Sableye: It's going to be next to impossible to give this thing the same level of support as in standard OU. If one person ends up with an OU ready full stall team then its kinda our own goof, given that M-Sable doesn't come as a package with say Chansey/Toxapex/Zapdos or w/e. Basically, I think that M-Sable relies on teammates to reach peak annoyance, but on it's own it's just another strong OU pick among many. It's too easy to draft it's best partners away from the M-Sable user, essentially, and if that doesn't happen then it's our bad. 

Mega Diance: You'd be surprised how many mons can learn Bullet Punch, unless this ends up paired with

 Tapu Lele: I personally don't think this is even the strongest Tapu, but I kinda get this one. Still Base 95 SPD isn't great, switch-ins do exist, there's plenty of viable dark-types that can neuter any choice set just by existing (and can potentially pursuit trap as well), plenty of viable steels to go around, plenty of faster scarfers, Lele itself is weak to every hazard, and the list goes on. I can elaborate more if needed but I don't think it's broken on its own, and again, I think the draft format itself limits a lot of the potential damage this one can do. 

Landorus-T: Versatile, but not broken like Gren. Lando can do a handful of things really well, whereas Gren can do anything well enough, if that makes sense, despite them both being versatile. 

 Volcarona: Essentially the same reasoning as Charizard-Y. Strong pick that you're going to need an answer for, of which there are plenty of options to choose from.

 Celesteela: I don't get this one. Sure, anyone who picks this would benefit from having it around, but honestly there's so many mons that can threaten this thing across every tier that it shouldn't be a problem for every player to have at least one solid answer, if not multiple. No better than any other strong defensive pick IMO. 

 Hoopa-U: Really strong wallbreaker, but way too slow to be overcentralizing IMO. 4X weakness to bug/U-Turn and having relatively bad PhysDef isn't doing it any favors either.
 

Also ye, I think 4 per person per tier is a better approach fwiw

[Ether]

I'm a bit rusty but drafts are fun. I'll toss my hat in but if we end with an odd number of players you can give the other the slot. Also gonna toss a BAN vote on gren if I'm in, though I could see a protean ban instead allowing battle bond.

[DisobeyedCargo]

Yeah I vote ban greninja 

 

if you ban ma BOI Arcanine we're gonna have a problem 

 

Also I should probably go make a showdown account 

[Emerson]

I'm not really on team ban Greninja, but I doubt I can do much against the movement.

31 minutes ago, Ether said:

Also gonna toss a BAN vote on gren if I'm in, though I could see a protean ban instead allowing battle bond.

This is the boat I'm on. Protean really is the source of Greninja's versatility. Without the shifting types it at least has stable weaknesses, and can pretty regularly dealt with.

[X-Naut]

A Protean ban could be handled in two ways: either Greninja and Ash-Greninja can be counted as separate Pokemon or Protean Greninja gets complex banned. If it's the latter then an argument can be made to allow Blaze Blaziken and Sand Force Landorus-I, because it's Speed Boost and Sheer Force respectively that break them to begin with. Compatibility issues could always be solved by playing matches in Ubers or a custom Showdown! server.

[Shoblongoo]

20 hours ago, Ether said:

I'm a bit rusty but drafts are fun. I'll toss my hat in but if we end with an odd number of players you can give the other the slot. Also gonna toss a BAN vote on gren if I'm in, though I could see a protean ban instead allowing battle bond.

And thats 8! We have enough players to start a draft now!

I'm also counting that we have enough votes to ban protean greninja by clear majority of players but no consensus on a blanket ban, so that will be the house rule for this draft.

PROTEAN GRENINJA IS BANNED!

Greninja can still be drafted, but it must use the ability battle bond or torrent in battle.

_______

I will now be opening a thread for the draft itself. The draft order will be selected using a random number generator for round 1, then players will draft in reverse order for round 2.

To begin, time-to-draft will be open ended. If a few days pass and we're getting really bogged down with the draft getting held up by Players going AFK, we'll work out a formal rules system for time-to-draft + players getting skipped if they take to long.

______

This thread will remain open to discuss rules, votes, trades, etc.

Good luck to you all. Draft well and battle hard!!!