Alm vs. Sigurd (War of Lords)

[Tenders]

Check out the latest episode of the war of lords! A show that compares fire emblem units and determines who would win in a fight by analyzing stats!

Any ideas for the next match up? It does not have to include Sigurd, and it does not need to include lords. 

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by Tenders
Added a question

[Chocolate Kitty]

but this is a dumb comparison

fe4 legendary weapons are entirely too powerful to compare to literally any other game; using their raw stats and skills pretty much will always have them win

[Køkø]

2 hours ago, Chocolate Kitty said:

but this is a dumb comparison

fe4 legendary weapons are entirely too powerful to compare to literally any other game; using their raw stats and skills pretty much will always have them win

He said stat wise, not lore wise.

Sigurd's max stats are quite low actually. He needs his weapon to even compete with Alm's ridiculously high max stats. 

Sigurd Class: Knight Lord Lvl 30  Weapon: Sword,Lance  Skills: Pursuit,Miracle
HP 80
Str 25 
Mag 15 
Skl 22 +10 
Spd 22 +10 
Def 22
Res 18 +20
Lck 30 
Mv  9   

Tyrfing Uses 50 Rank * Mt 30 Hit 80 Crt 0 Rng 1 Wt 7  

Eff:l +10 Skill,Speed, +20 Resistance, gives Miracle skill.    

Damage output : 55 - 40 = 15 

Alm Class: Lvl 40  Hero    Weapon: Sword,Bow
HP 52 
Str 40
Skl 40 
Spd 40 
Def 40 
Res 40 
Lck 40  
Mv  6

Valentian Falchion Uses -- Rank Mt 10 Hit 80 Crt 0 Rng 1 Wt 0 

Eff: Effective against monsters; restores 5 HP per turn. 

Damage output: 50 - 22 = 28 (56 after double)  

 

 

Sigurd gets doubled even with his holy weapon. Even if you gave him the speed ring, he'd still get doubled because Alm needs only 1 point higher to do it. Then again, Sigurd's opponents need Pursuit to double. 

In the modern format, Alm is the clear winner here if we're comparing the units and their respective weapons only. Alm was made even more OP in Echoes with Scendscale and his new 3rd tier class. And this is coming from someone who prefers Sigurd.

 

 

Edit: 

Okay, so after skimming through the video (sorry OP, nothing personal) I'm confused. Could you tell what stats you're using to determine the winner, Tenders? Because endgame Alm has the edge over Sigurd.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Køkø

[Slumber]

4 hours ago, Køkø said:

Okay, so after skimming through the video (sorry OP, nothing personal) I'm confused. Could you tell what stats you're using to determine the winner, Tenders? Because endgame Alm has the edge over Sigurd.

He's averaging the growths from both games to make a comparison, and how each of the lords stack up. It's not just "FE2 Alm" vs "FE4 Sigurd".

He's putting them in a fictional world where their growths are relative to each other.

Also if you base this purely on the max stats from either game, yeah Alm would crush. But the chances of Alm actually hitting the 40 cap for any of his stats are so astronomically low. Even in Echoes with his boosted growths, Alm isn't super likely to do that. Regardless, the way the OP presented this, they're basically even, but since Sigurd has a horse, he has initiative and gets the hits he needs in first.

Basically Horse Emblem wins again.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Slumber

[Køkø]

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

He's averaging the growths from both games to make a comparison, and how each of the lords stack up. It's not just "FE2 Alm" vs "FE4 Sigurd".

He's putting them in a fictional world where their growths are relative to each other. 

Also if you base this purely on the max stats from either game, yeah Alm would crush. But the chances of Alm actually hitting the 40 cap for any of his stats are so astronomically low. Even in Echoes with his boosted growths, Alm isn't super likely to do that. Regardless, the way the OP presented this, they're basically even, but since Sigurd has a horse, he has initiative and gets the hits he needs in first.

Basically Horse Emblem wins again.

Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Chocolate Kitty]

15 hours ago, Køkø said:

He said stat wise, not lore wise.

Sigurd's max stats are quite low actually. He needs his weapon to even compete with Alm's ridiculously high max stats. 

Sigurd Class: Knight Lord Lvl 30  Weapon: Sword,Lance  Skills: Pursuit,Miracle
HP 80
Str 25 
Mag 15 
Skl 22 +10 
Spd 22 +10 
Def 22
Res 18 +20
Lck 30 
Mv  9   

Tyrfing Uses 50 Rank * Mt 30 Hit 80 Crt 0 Rng 1 Wt 7  

Eff:l +10 Skill,Speed, +20 Resistance, gives Miracle skill.    

Damage output : 55 - 40 = 15 

Alm Class: Lvl 40  Hero    Weapon: Sword,Bow
HP 52 
Str 40
Skl 40 
Spd 40 
Def 40 
Res 40 
Lck 40  
Mv  6

Valentian Falchion Uses -- Rank Mt 10 Hit 80 Crt 0 Rng 1 Wt 0 

Eff: Effective against monsters; restores 5 HP per turn. 

Damage output: 50 - 22 = 28 (56 after double)  

 

 

Sigurd gets doubled even with his holy weapon. Even if you gave him the speed ring, he'd still get doubled because Alm needs only 1 point higher to do it. Then again, Sigurd's opponents need Pursuit to double. 

In the modern format, Alm is the clear winner here if we're comparing the units and their respective weapons only. Alm was made even more OP in Echoes with Scendscale and his new 3rd tier class. And this is coming from someone who prefers Sigurd.

 

 

Edit: 

Okay, so after skimming through the video (sorry OP, nothing personal) I'm confused. Could you tell what stats you're using to determine the winner, Tenders? Because endgame Alm has the edge over Sigurd.

yeah watch the video before coming to that conclusion; if sigurd's weapon did not have an absurd 30 might, prayer skill, and +10 spd/skl(which are ignored in the video), there's no way that he beats alm, horse or not

[Køkø]

13 minutes ago, Chocolate Kitty said:

yeah watch the video before coming to that conclusion; if sigurd's weapon did not have an absurd 30 might, prayer skill, and +10 spd/skl(which are ignored in the video), there's no way that he beats alm, horse or not

Yeah, I should have. I saw you say "dumb comparison", not video. I typed all that before finding out you weren't talking about the idea of comparing Sigurd to Alm in general.  

I understand the context and I get what you're saying now.

[Chocolate Kitty]

16 hours ago, Køkø said:

Yeah, I should have. I saw you say "dumb comparison", not video. I typed all that before finding out you weren't talking about the idea of comparing Sigurd to Alm in general.  

I understand the context and I get what you're saying now.

yeah my b; should have clarified in the initial post

[Jotari]

Like the stat spreading, but disappointed there's no mock up animation.

Hey, what if Alm used a bow in player phase to avoid eating a counter attack from Sigurd? It wouldn't even break any implicit one weapon rule since you don't even need to give a bow to Alm to let him use one. Without crunching the numbers, I'm guessing Sigurd still wins, since he only needs to hit Alm twice, but it is another interesting way to think about the battle.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Jotari

[Tenders]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Like the stat spreading, but disappointed there's no mock up animation.

If you know anyone who would be willing to put together animations for me that would be great!  

[Jotari]

So I crunched the numbers using the idea of Alm attacking with a Bow to avoid a counter attack from Sigurd, and this is what I get.

Turn 1 Sigurd Phase

Sigurd attacks, deals 39 damage. Alm counters, dealing 26,

Alm: 49HP.  Sigurd: 46HP

Turn 1 Alm Phase

Falchion restores 5 HP to Alm. Alm attacks with Bow, dealing 6 damage (Falchion has a might of 10 in Gaiden, the defalt Bow as a might of 0, so Alm deals 10 less damage and doubles. It also has 10 less hit than Falchion, but still comfortably hits Sigurd with 100% accuracy). Sigurd can't counter.

Alm: 54HP. Sigurd: 40HP

Turn 2 Sigurd Phase

Sigurd attacks first, deals 39 damage. Alm counters with Falchion, dealing 26,

Alm: 15HP. Sigurd: 14HP.

Turn 2 Alm Phase

Falchion restores 5 HP to Alm. Alm attacks using Falchion, deals 13 damage, Sigurd counter attacks, dealing 39 damage and killing.

Alm: 0. Sigurd 1HP! 

 

So, Alm still difinitively loses, but he gets Sigurd down to an amazingly close 1HP. Of course, if Alm managed to survive the third Tyfring hit, he would have a really hard time dealing the finishing blow to a 1HP Sigurd thanks to Prayer. But still, even with the same result, it shows how a less conventionial approach to the battle can radically alter it. If Sigurd happened to have 1 less HP, Alm could have taken it (or even if Alm had one more point of strength, he could have used the Bow on his last turn to kill Sigurd, provided he could get around Prayer).

Edited February 16, 2018 by Jotari