Most boring/obnoxious/badly-designed maps from any game?

[ChickenBits]

- Almost the entirety of Genealogy. The map sizes were ridiculous and if you used anyone that wasn't on a horse it became even more of a slog. I have no issues with maps that don't have a lot going on but ones that render half of my army pointless is not my idea of fun.

- I'd say Thracia but once you start to understand the mechanics it really isn't that bad. A blind play though isn't fun with this game however. 

- Ninja hell(Chapter 25) from Conquest. Doesn't help that I played this on Lunatic. 3 range shurikens with debuffs and poison strike stacking was not fun at all. It's pure stress when you're trying to kill everyone for exp and the chests. Effie barely hanged on with 1 hp at a choke point and I had to be insanely careful with Xander.

- Conquest chapter 10 because I'm an idiot that sucks at defensive maps. That and I have an obsession or something with frail characters(Only exception being the barons from Echoes). Actually any "defend the point" map can be mentioned here.

- The only chapter I had problems in Sacred Stones was Victims of War. Why should I be forced to send in Seth to kill everything just to save some npcs? Fog of war in general has been annoying in FE but adding on npcs just makes everything worse.

An honorable mention goes to Echoes endgame. I was playing on hard and I was trashing everything the game was throwing at me. Pitchforks weren't used and I was using my favourites. Once I had to fight Duma it became a differerent story. My party was under-leveled and nobody could survive Jedah and the swarm of moguls. The dreadfighters were either too fast for anyone to double are they doubled everything. It was so bad I had to do a second playthrough. The second time was difficult but it went smoothly nonetheless thanks to reclassing Forsyth to a dreadfighter and concentrating my exp onto certain units.

Edited February 13, 2018 by ChickenBits

[Shadow Mir]

32 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Henning still isn't that hard though. A promoted Dieck can take him on relatively easy, especially if he's got a Killing Edge. Rutger also works but i just prefer having Dieck since i usually promote him first.

The problem is, that's dependent on promoting them early, which I'm not a fan of - I'm not convinced the perks of early promotion make up for the downsides...

[Von Ithipathachai]

I would say Chapter 24x of Thracia 776, but since I haven't played far enough in to reach it, I'm going to go with Chapter 5 from the same game, as that's the one that's given me the worst memories so far.

The thing that annoys me the most about Chapter 5 is how luck-based it is.  Chapter 4 suffers from this too, with the random placement of your inventory within chests, but if you prepare well enough in the preceding chapter, it's an inconvenience at worst.

But in Chapter 5, you have much less control, since Eyvel and Nanna have preset inventories.  Ideally, you want Eyvel to be able to fend off the gladiators as you're making your way towards the arena.  Yet at the same time, you don't want her to kill the gladiators too quickly, or the Berserker and/or Naga forbid Galzus will show up and probably ruin your day.  In most cases either someone dies or the Berserker shows up and you have little control over it.

The latter half after Eyvel gets turned to stone is admittedly not as bad, but still incredibly tedious to play through.  Every time I send someone to grab the Magic Ring that's all the way on the other side of the arena entrance while everyone else progresses through the upper half of the map to the exit, I'm always afraid I'll accidentally forget them.

I'm just not a big fan of the Escape From Munster sequence as a whole, but Chapter 5 stands out like a sore for me.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Von Ithipathachai

[Armagon]

10 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

The problem is, that's dependent on promoting them early, which I'm not a fan of - I'm not convinced the perks of early promotion make up for the downsides...

Fair enough. I personally prefer promoting early because i'm impatient and waiting to Lv.20 takes too long, especially for healers. But that's a discussion for another day.

[Hawkwing]

I could probably say half of the recruitment chapters for the child characters in Awakening, but to be more specific:

-Kjelle: The only saving graces about this map is that Kjelle is unlikely to die and that this level is accessible pretty early on. Other than that, it's a crowded indoor map filled with tough enemies that never lets up on the reinforcements, meaning that this level lasts loads longer than it needs to, and if you're playing on hard difficult or above, the reinforcements move on the turn they are spawned.

-Yarne: The fact that you choose which army you wish to fight and which one you wish to protect, or you can decide to fight both for the combined reward, is a cool idea. The fact that the game doesn't show you the full army beforehand, is not as cool. You basically have to have a strong enough army that you can split into two if you want the full reward, and the enemies of this level aren't weak by any means (the reason why they gave you the decision to fight only one side in the first place rears its ugly head before long). That, and Yarne himself will either be a balanced powerhouse or pitiful weakling depending on how kind the child mechanics are to him, meaning it's difficult to predict beforehand whether or not doing the level is worthwhile in the first place

-Severa's: The enemy class balance in this level is a pain for the player, as they're too varied to fully prepare for. You have sages who are physically weak but are magical powerhouses, weak but accurate and speedy assassins and tricksters, and warriors/berserkers who are inaccurate has heck but hit like a truck. That, and the level has reinforcements, as well as green npc that you have to protect (which granted, I never found to be that hard, but you do have to spend a few turns waiting for her to reach the villager) before she can be recruited. The only saving grace of this level is that Severa herself is pretty versatile.

-Nah's: The wall gimmick is definitely a "sounds good on paper, not so much in practice" idea. You can easily have a path blocked for your stronger units to continue, have a wall crumble right when you though your injured unit would be safe from the battle, and have a path of retreat blocked right when a unit may have needed it. This level is an exercise in frustration, as it's very hard to predict what areas are safe and what aren't, and having to backtrack because a wall appear right when you just got a unit next to unit, just adds to the frustration.

[eclipse]

"Everything in Jugdral and Revelation" is a boring answer.

- FE4, Chapter 2: Big maps are already a pain in the ass.  Now I have to run back and forth?
- FE6, Chapter 16x: 8x's tiles were irritating, but they were just that - tiles.  16x is a freakin' staircase.  Plus I have to keep that idiot Douglas alive.
- FE7, Chapter 12: Half the map is trees, and it's not your half.
- FE8, Chapter 9 (Ephraim): Shout-out to a very long map complete with a Sleep staff.  Oh, and Restore doesn't exist.
- I don't remember a damn thing about Tellius, except that Ranulf was awesome.
- FE11, Chapter 6: Vulneraries aren't on sale yet and there's no forts.  Good luck healing!
- FE12, Chapter 3: You can take the long way, or the longer way.  It's obnoxious no matter what.
- FE13, Chapter 16: I, too, like ambush reinforcements from who-knows-where.
- FE14, Ignatius/Shiro: Why is my objective all the way over there, and why is there all this crap between me and them?

[ping]

Going through the games I've played...:

FE6 - Chapter 8. Way too much running around with nothing major going on. I don't really like most of the gaiden chapter gimmicks, but at least you can just warp through the worst ones.

FE7 - Every chapter with snow or rain (except maybe Kenneth's map). In desert maps, you can at least at least use mages and flyers as more mobile units.

FE8 - chapter 12 on Eirika's route. Just a long, unremarkable path and a lot of unremarkable enemies to kill along the way. And it's a route map, too. :/

FE9 - Honestly, I can't think of a map that I really dislike. I guess the most annoying one is the big bridge with its pitfalls.

FE10 - Geoffrey's charge. Part 2 doesn't really have great maps in general - I do like 2-E, but I tend to lose interest in the game right before it.

FE11 - don't remember enough.

FE12 - Echoing chapter 3. The long way around the mountains is just boring, and you don't even have a save point before pulling the four dracoknights in the mountains. At least there's some free XP for your bow user of choice flying around in the east of the map. ;)

[Interdimensional Observer]

14 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

That one Desert map from Radiant Dawn's part 4 can go eat crap, for all I care. That map is the reason I always give all available fliers and mages to Micaiah's group.
Desert maps in general aren't fun in the slightest. The only 'good' desert map is Chapter 9 in Awakening and even then, it's only because you recruit my favourite FE character in that map (/bias)

I'd argue Scorched Sands is a decent desert map. Two Gemstones get to die (although Valter and Caellach on Hard should start moving by a certain point (turn 10-13-ish to be fair) for more challenge), there isn't too much sand, the plot for the chapter is fairly good past Eph having to rescue Eri again. 4-3 is bad I'll agree to that though.

 

7 hours ago, eclipse said:

- FE8, Chapter 9 (Ephraim): Shout-out to a very long map complete with a Sleep staff.  Oh, and Restore doesn't exist.

Hm? Do you just deny its existence for some reason? Because according to SF's map shop page for SS, you can buy them in Serafew. You will obtain a freebie later, but that isn't redundant, since Father and Son (the Vigarde/Grado Keep battle) will likely require two Restores in totally separate locations.

FE7's HHM Genesis, that is a map where Restore is an issue. Since you can only have 1 by that point, but your army is split in two right away and the enemies are packing high magic and status staffs, including Silence.

[ChickenBits]

7 hours ago, eclipse said:

- FE14, Ignatius/Shiro: Why is my objective all the way over there, and why is there all this crap between me and them?

Damn, you reminded me of that horror. I never got Ignatius but Shiro the idiot who's addicted to suicide wasn't all that enjoyable to recruit. I always did his map near the end and almost everything can double the little cheese of Hoshido. 

[UNLEASH IT]

-Nephenee and Brom's chapter in RD (what was even going on with the AI there)

-Most of RD Part 4 (especially that desert chapter)

-Any map in RD with a large green army

-Anri's Way

-Battle Before Dawn and Night of Farewells

-Fuuga's Wild Ride

-Remorse and Retaliation, Salem's chapter and Chapter 24x from Thracia 776

-Ice breaking map from Revelations

-Chapters 2,3 and 4 of FE4

-Most of Echoes maps (which literally repeat throughout the story)

Edited February 14, 2018 by UNLEASH IT

[eclipse]

25 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Hm? Do you just deny its existence for some reason? Because according to SF's map shop page for SS, you can buy them in Serafew. You will obtain a freebie later, but that isn't redundant, since Father and Son (the Vigarde/Grado Keep battle) will likely require two Restores in totally separate locations.

FE7's HHM Genesis, that is a map where Restore is an issue. Since you can only have 1 by that point, but your army is split in two right away and the enemies are packing high magic and status staffs, including Silence.

I distinctly remember the lack of Restore in that chapter, because I had to leave three of my units behind.

I believe you have Pure Waters for Genesis, which makes it slightly less of an issue.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

I distinctly remember the lack of Restore in that chapter, because I had to leave three of my units behind.

And I just booted up my 3DS's Ambassador copy of SS. I have an Eirika Chapter 9 file walking into Serafew's Shop, I see Restore for sale. The shops don't differ on the two routes, so Eph should be able to buy it too. Why I replayed C9 Eph like last month on an all foot soldier run, and I do remember buying one because it wasn't cheap. The fact they put the free Restore in a chest in that chapter was also remarkably annoying until I remembered F&S.

[DragonFlames]

29 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd argue Scorched Sands is a decent desert map. Two Gemstones get to die (although Valter and Caellach on Hard should start moving by a certain point (turn 10-13-ish to be fair) for more challenge), there isn't too much sand, the plot for the chapter is fairly good past Eph having to rescue Eri again. 4-3 is bad I'll agree to that though.

I'll be honest: I completely forgot about that map. Whoops.
But yeah, I definitely agree that this is also one of the better Desert maps.

I'm surprised by how many people mention FE4 here. I always thought that game was a shining example of a good FE game (from hearsay, that is). Interesting.

And I want to echo the sentiment of hating Chapter 3 of FE12. That chapter is just... ugh. Unpredictable AI, nothing happens for half of it, recruitable units that don't do squat, one unit is a sitting duck and your only way of guarding a village from thieves, which would be fine, if she wasn't made out of wet paper at that point in the game... yeah, no. 

I also want to add the "Pots of Greed" (WHAT DO THEY DO?!?) map (Conquest Chapter 12) to my list of hated maps. For two reasons: 1) time limit and 2) Ninjas. Each is already annoying enough on its own, but thrown together, it creates one of the most stressful clusterfucks I have ever seen. And it certainly is NOT the good kind of stressful, like Chapter 10 from the same game or even some of the lategame Birthright maps (Camilla's comes to mind). I also can't use Elise for this, so there's no two healers to keep up with the constant chip damage thrown at you.
Seriously, who in their right mind thought that class was a good idea? On paper, maybe, but in practice? No. Just no.
Although I guess we can be lucky that none of the Master Ninjas in the lategame pack Lethality. Combined with Fates' wonky RNG, this would have led to some very, very frustrating restarts that would have caused me to stop playing the game period.

 

[Armagon]

7 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I'm surprised by how many people mention FE4 here. I always thought that game was a shining example of a good FE game (from hearsay, that is). Interesting.

I'm not gonna make an FE4 rant where it doesn't belong since everyone already knows my stance on the game but the thing about FE4's maps is that they contribute to a lot of the problems the game has from a gameplay standpoint. I'm gonna end it there though. I'll save my FE4 rants for another time.

7 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I also want to add the "Pots of Greed" (WHAT DO THEY DO?!?) map (Conquest Chapter 12) to my list of hated maps. For two reasons: 1) time limit and 2) Ninjas. Each is already annoying enough on its own, but thrown together, it creates one of the most stressful clusterfucks I have ever seen.

Another reason why Conquest Ch.12 sucks is because the Dragon's Vein actually works against you. You don't want to blow up all of the pots and draw two more cards from your deck, because you either get blessed or fucked by the effects and then all of the enemies come crashing down on you. Conquest Ch.14 and Revelation Ch.13 also have Dragon Veins that work against you (but those maps aren't that bad even if you do activate them).

7 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Seriously, who in their right mind thought that class was a good idea? On paper, maybe, but in practice? No. Just no.

What, Ninjas? They are literally the equivalents of Thiefs, Assassins, Rouges, etc from previous games. The stat debuffs come from the Hidden Weapons that they use, not the Class itself. The Class itself is fine, just not the weapons.

Speaking of Ninjas though, the Ninja Village chapter in Birthright and Revelation sucks. It's the forest map with a bunch of spikes. You can use the Dragon Veins to get rid of the spikes.....but the spikes come back anyway so literally what's the point? And you can't disable them permanently like you could in Conquest Ch.17. Funny, every map that you fight Kotaro in is a pain in the ass.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I still find the complaints about FE4's map design somewhat amusing.
No one really thinks about that each map is divided into chapter segments. Each castle is an own chapter, so each map has 3-4 chapters.
And the game gives you the chance after defeating one boss to let catch up everyone before you seize, so it's not even entirely "Horse-Emblem".
But I guess I'm too casual in this regard... who doesn't care about LTC and speedruns.
 

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, 豊聡耳 神子 said:

I still find the complaints about FE4's map design somewhat amusing.
No one really thinks about that each map is divided into chapter segments. Each castle is an own chapter, so each map has 3-4 chapters.
And the game gives you the chance after defeating one boss to let catch up everyone before you seize, so it's not even entirely "Horse-Emblem".
But I guess I'm too casual in this regard... who doesn't care about LTC and speedruns.

The problem is, that means wasting time - time that bandits can use to destroy villages, especially with the game's penchant for having bandits in areas where you can't access. Anyways, I wouldn't mind the maps so much if it weren't for the fact that as Armagon said, they either contribute to or worsen the other problems the game has. Well, that, and the fact that they quickly grow stale. Also, even if you go out of your way to catch everyone up, guess what? They'll just get left behind in the dust again come the next segment of the map. Yay... And then you have crap like the last segment of chapter 1 - remember all the complaints about Awakening's chapter 24? This is far worse, since you have no fliers to bypass the forest.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

Speaking of Ninjas though, the Ninja Village chapter in Birthright and Revelation sucks. It's the forest map with a bunch of spikes. You can use the Dragon Veins to get rid of the spikes.....but the spikes come back anyway so literally what's the point? And you can't disable them permanently like you could in Conquest Ch.17. Funny, every map that you fight Kotaro in is a pain in the ass.

Ninjas are supposed to be underhanded bastards. They're not strong enough to win with pure power, so they do the "cheap things" like punji traps, Poison Strike, debuffs, and a Den of Doom (I wish there was a staff that healed stat debuffs though- the rate of 1 point restored per turn can be cripplingly slow). Of course, one's agility matters a lot more in FE than in reality, and it makes Ninjas rather hard to kill if you aren't a strong Axe/Bow user able to OHKO or OH+OS KO, or a -breaker/Dual Katana/Calamity Gate user.

As a player class, I don't think Ninjas are broken None of the initial three are that durable, and the low Mt of Daggers/Shurikens interferes with the goodness of natural 1-2 range. You'll need a good deal of Str stacking to ORKO physical units with one consistently. Poison Strike, debuffing, 1-2 Range, and being anti-Magic still gives them plenty of usefulness though.

I will agree that maps that are overwhelmingly one class or weapon type are a generally bad idea, not always, and having sections of maps that are mostly one thing is fine, like the CQ Izumo fight which is physical south to mostly magical north, or the Cheve fight that is mostly magic to the west and mostly physical to the east at the start. But the Kotaro chapters and the Kitsune Hamlet are rather bad in being monoclass or close to it. FE encourages unit variety, but those kinds of chapters work against it.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ninjas are supposed to be underhanded bastards. They're not strong enough to win with pure power, so they do the "cheap things" like punji traps, Poison Strike, debuffs, and a Den of Doom (I wish there was a staff that healed stat debuffs though- the rate of 1 point restored per turn can be cripplingly slow). Of course, one's agility matters a lot more in FE than in reality, and it makes Ninjas rather hard to kill if you aren't a strong Axe/Bow user able to OHKO or OH+OS KO, or a -breaker/Dual Katana/Calamity Gate user.

As a player class, I don't think Ninjas are broken None of the initial three are that durable, and the low Mt of Daggers/Shurikens interferes with the goodness of natural 1-2 range. You'll need a good deal of Str stacking to ORKO physical units with one consistently. Poison Strike, debuffing, 1-2 Range, and being anti-Magic still gives them plenty of usefulness though.

I agree with all of this. Though when it comes to axes, you're strapped for good options - there's Camilla, but she's only one unit. The rest of the natural axe users in Fates are pretty bad, other than MAYBE Beruka.

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Another reason why Conquest Ch.12 sucks is because the Dragon's Vein actually works against you. You don't want to blow up all of the pots and draw two more cards from your deck, because you either get blessed or fucked by the effects and then all of the enemies come crashing down on you. Conquest Ch.14 and Revelation Ch.13 also have Dragon Veins that work against you (but those maps aren't that bad even if you do activate them).

Bold: Did you mean chapter 24?

[Icelerate]

Why do people complain about allied NPCs in Radiant Dawn when they can be ordered to stay out of the fight? 

[Shadow Mir]

2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Why do people complain about allied NPCs in Radiant Dawn when they can be ordered to stay out of the fight? 

Not the green ones. And guess what? 3-10, which I complained about because of AI stupidity, has greens.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Strullemia]

The desert map in part 4 from Radiant Dawn was a special kind of evil. It's the only map in all of the FE games I played that made temporarily drop a FE game.

I also really dislike the Kitsune map in Conquest. Conquest overall has good maps but putting units that are randomly invincible in a map is cheap nonsense. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Hekselka

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Not the green ones. And guess what? 3-10, which I complained about because of AI stupidity, has greens.

Yeah I agree with this criticism. I can understand why green units are present in prologue of chapter 3 as well as chapter 1-5 because Ike isn't commanding the Laguz Alliance and neither is Micaiah commanding the Daein Liberation Army but there's no excuse once Ike becomes leader of the Apostle's Army as it is a coalition with Ike as the supreme leader. I've seen people criticize the presence of yellow units in various chapters but I enjoy yellow units because you can still give them orders. I'd have liked the AI of yellow units to be improved though. Why don't bishops heal you if you give them orders other than roam? 

[Armagon]

4 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Did you mean chapter 24?

No, i meant Ch.14 (I actually didn't find Ch.24 to be that bad tbh). Ch.14 is the map in the water theater. You can use the Dragon Vein to freeze the water but that just makes it easier for the enemy to get you.

[Shadow Mir]

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

No, i meant Ch.14 (I actually didn't find Ch.24 to be that bad tbh). Ch.14 is the map in the water theater. You can use the Dragon Vein to freeze the water but that just makes it easier for the enemy to get you.

I don't remember seeing, let alone using, any Dragon Veins in chapter 14 in Conquest...

Edited February 15, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Armagon]

24 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I don't remember seeing, let alone using, any Dragon Veins in chapter 14 in Conquest...

You're right, there wasn't any there. I was thinking of the Birthright version of the map (Birthright Ch.12). But the Birthright version can be cheesed in one turn so that map shouldn't even be a complaint.