Ae†her

Why are there such big similarities between FE 4 characters and Game of Thrones characters?

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This is kind of a dumb topic, but.....

(There are spoilers here for any Game of Thrones softcore fans, so be warned.) Sigurd is Eddard Stark, and Seliph is Jon. What do I mean by this? 

Sigurd does a lot of things for the sake of honor, and doing what he thinks is right, and he gets manipulated by in the end by a man who loves his wife (Peter Baelish, although the circumstances under which Arvis loves Deirdre are vastly different), and dies at the hands of those he was trying to do the right thing for. Then his son comes along with very similar ideologies as his father, and aspires to his father, and wants revenge and justice for his father. He's not a bastard or not the actual son of the naiive father-figure here, but he's born to a woman who remembers nothing of her past life (the Deirdre Sigurd knew is practically gone), also Deidre was not supposed to fall in love with anyone, but she did.

Julia is Daenerys?

Kind of. She's Seliph's Daenerys in a way. She was born with full entitlement just like her cocky brother (Viserion is similar to Julius in this case). She has pretty white hair, she's related to a Dragon in that she uses the Book of Naga, and she probably ends up loving her brother from another father, Seliph. Or at least it feels like that could be so (Cipher Art and just the Ending of Genealogy).

Also just to add to the uncanny mystery, Genealogy came out May 14, 1996 in Japan and the first A Song of Ice and Fire book came out August 1, 1996. Of course I'm not saying GRRM plagiarized a Fire Emblem game or anything like that, but I find the similarities are kind of profound. It's interesting to say the least. Maybe 1996 was just a year of epic fantasy tales featuring betrayal, sad endings, and incest (potentially)?

Edited by Ae†her

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Because these are all common character tropes in these kind of stories.

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I see a lot of these comparisons. I hate when people act like Game of Thrones is the origin for dark medieval fantasy when it's been around for centuries. As the user above me so aptly put it, these are pretty common tropes in the genre at this point. I highly doubt Kaga or Martin knew anything about each other's work. It's fine if you like both FE and GOT but I can't stop cringing whenever people do this. 

Edited by Køkø

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6 hours ago, Køkø said:

I see a lot of these comparisons. I hate when people act like Game of Thrones is the origin for dark medieval fantasy when it's been around for centuries.

Yup.

To see the origins of dark stories in medieval settings, all you have to do is look at the actual medieval. Shit was dark and fucked up. Eventually when you pull from the darkest elements of that period(Rape, incest, child murder, political backstabbing, brutal executions and acceptable murder, witch hunts(Not actual witch hunts like America), clowns, etc.), you're going to hit some similarities to stories that try to pull from the same places.

Things like Seliph/Julia and Jon/Daenerys are merely coincidences.

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9 hours ago, Slumber said:

Yup.

To see the origins of dark stories in medieval settings, all you have to do is look at the actual medieval. Shit was dark and fucked up. Eventually when you pull from the darkest elements of that period(Rape, incest, child murder, political backstabbing, brutal executions and acceptable murder, witch hunts(Not actual witch hunts like America), clowns, etc.), you're going to hit some similarities to stories that try to pull from the same places.

Things like Seliph/Julia and Jon/Daenerys are merely coincidences.

That's why I said this is a dumb topic because I was pretty much pointing out coincidences. Forgive me I don't read a lot of fantasy works, but I imagine that at the very least the character relationship similarities between FE 4 and GoT are something not persistent in medieval fantasy works? I understand the character tropes already existing, but I think that specific formula where it's Sigurd (the father figure) to Seliph (hero figure) then Seliph to Julia (special dragon girl figure) is a coincidence.

15 hours ago, Køkø said:

I see a lot of these comparisons. I hate when people act like Game of Thrones is the origin for dark medieval fantasy when it's been around for centuries. As the user above me so aptly put it, these are pretty common tropes in the genre at this point. I highly doubt Kaga or Martin knew anything about each other's work. It's fine if you like both FE and GOT but I can't stop cringing whenever people do this. 

Yeah, I hate that too. Especially considering Martin himself said he gets his inspiration from history. I wasn't trying to point out a bunch of stuff in FE 4 that are similar to Game of Thrones as if they only exist in GoT (how could I when I even said FE 4 came before AGoT). Like I don't say that Genealogy has houses like GoT because that's just something that's straight up taken from history. The only similarities that I found so surprisingly similar are Julia and Daenerys both having that connection to a dragon, and her having white hair, and a little bit of all the other very similar formula used to make these characters, however, some thing are not from history I think it's safe to say. Some of the characters are based on already developed fictional characters in medieval fantasy works. 

16 hours ago, The Geek said:

Because these are all common character tropes in these kind of stories.

The patterns are actually more similar than I thought they would be. I haven't read that much fantasy so I don't know if these exact same character relationship formulas are persistent in the medieval fantasy genre.

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31 minutes ago, Ae†her said:

That's why I said this is a dumb topic because I was pretty much pointing out coincidences. Forgive me I don't read a lot of fantasy works, but I imagine that at the very least the character relationship similarities between FE 4 and GoT are something not persistent in medieval fantasy works? I understand the character tropes already existing, but I think that specific formula where it's Sigurd (the father figure) to Seliph (hero figure) then Seliph to Julia (special dragon girl figure) is a coincidence.

Yeah, I hate that too. Especially considering Martin himself said he gets his inspiration from history. I wasn't trying to point out a bunch of stuff in FE 4 that are similar to Game of Thrones as if they only exist in GoT (how could I when I even said FE 4 came before AGoT). Like I don't say that Genealogy has houses like GoT because that's just something that's straight up taken from history. The only similarities that I found so surprisingly similar are Julia and Daenerys both having that connection to a dragon, and her having white hair, and a little bit of all the other very similar formula used to make these characters, however, some thing are not from history I think it's safe to say. Some of the characters are based on already developed fictional characters in medieval fantasy works. 

I get where you're coming from, but the similarities aren't significant enough to note.  

48 minutes ago, Ae†her said:

I haven't read that much fantasy so I don't know if these exact same character relationship formulas are persistent in the medieval fantasy genre.

Me neither. Maybe not exactly, but I do know dragons, legacies, power struggles, betrayal and incest are pretty common in these type of things.  

20 hours ago, Ae†her said:

She's Seliph's Daenerys in a way. She was born with full entitlement just like her cocky brother (Viserion is similar to Julius in this case). She has pretty white hair, she's related to a Dragon in that she uses the Book of Naga, and she probably ends up loving her brother from another father, Seliph. Or at least it feels like that could be so (Cipher Art and just the Ending of Genealogy).

How is Julius similar to Viserion? GOT dragons are more like FE wyverns. FE has always been kinda anime, so strange hair colors are a given. 

Julia does not fall in love with Seliph. There's a unique mechanic coded in that drops their love points to from 499 to 0 to prevent this. There was an initial attraction, but it does not come to fruition, thankfully. Julia's already inbred.

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12 hours ago, Slumber said:

Yup.

To see the origins of dark stories in medieval settings, all you have to do is look at the actual medieval. Shit was dark and fucked up. Eventually when you pull from the darkest elements of that period(Rape, incest, child murder, political backstabbing, brutal executions and acceptable murder, witch hunts(Not actual witch hunts like America), clowns, etc.), you're going to hit some similarities to stories that try to pull from the same places.

 

GoT doesn't sound bad with all the political intrigue, drama, and fantasy elements. And I don't mind dark things like torture, murder and incest. But besides lacking HBO, I can't quite stomach the gore and sex and other graphic R-rated visuals. If they had a "clean" version, I'd consider watching it. But a clean version would be how many minutes long per episode? 10?

Of course I guess I could read the books since I don't have visuals with that, but aren't they 500 page monsters apiece?

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1 hour ago, Køkø said:

How is Julius similar to Viserion?

Only in that he's the brother of Julia (Daenaerys) and is the more heartless one of the two, and the one with more entitlement. They're still very different though in pretty much everything else.

2 hours ago, Køkø said:

Julia does not fall in love with Seliph. There's a unique mechanic coded in that drops their love points to from 499 to 0 to prevent this. There was an initial attraction, but it does not come to fruition, thankfully. Julia's already inbred.

At the end Julia ends up ruling with Emperor Seliph. With Emperor Seliph. She has such high social status, royal blood and is ruling with the Emperor, and that leads me to believe that they would eventually marry because that's the most sensible thing to do in the given scenario as incestuous as it is. Lewyn say's they are the last living heirs of the blood of the Grannvale's kings so either that happens or Julia just accepts Seliph as more of his brother, and they somehow are okay with splitting their holy blood across two families. They were separated for most of their childhood so their sister and brother relationship shouldn't be that strong as normal siblings either. I feel bad saying this with my Profile Picture, but it's what I think.

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10 hours ago, Ae†her said:

 

At the end Julia ends up ruling with Emperor Seliph. With Emperor Seliph. She has such high social status, royal blood and is ruling with the Emperor, and that leads me to believe that they would eventually marry because that's the most sensible thing to do in the given scenario as incestuous as it is. Lewyn say's they are the last living heirs of the blood of the Grannvale's kings so either that happens or Julia just accepts Seliph as more of his brother, and they somehow are okay with splitting their holy blood across two families. They were separated for most of their childhood so their sister and brother relationship shouldn't be that strong as normal siblings either. I feel bad saying this with my Profile Picture, but it's what I think.

King Seliph. The empire was disbanded. There is a unique mechanic that's specifically designed to keep them from falling in love. There's nothing to ponder, Seliph x Julia does not happen.  He's more likely to marry Lana than anything.

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On 2/15/2018 at 11:00 AM, Køkø said:

King Seliph. The empire was disbanded. There is a unique mechanic that's specifically designed to keep them from falling in love. There's nothing to ponder, Seliph x Julia does not happen.  He's more likely to marry Lana than anything.

Another Seliph x Julia denier. We'll show them once the Genealogy remake comes out and shows copious amounts of uncensored incest!

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29 minutes ago, GreatHylian said:

Another Seliph x Julia denier. We'll show them once the Genealogy remake comes out and shows copious amounts of uncensored incest!

The last time two half siblings got it on in FE4, they literally gave birth to the Anti-Christ. 

I think Seliph and Julia would know better. 

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14 minutes ago, Slumber said:

The last time two half siblings got it on in FE4, they literally gave birth to the Anti-Christ. 

Not trying to support the pro-incest people on this thread, but wasn't this only because Arvis and Deirdre both had the requisite Loptyr blood in them?

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4 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Not trying to support the pro-incest people on this thread, but wasn't this only because Arvis and Deirdre both had the requisite Loptyr blood in them?

My post was a joke. 

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4 hours ago, GreatHylian said:

Another Seliph x Julia denier. We'll show them once the Genealogy remake comes out and shows copious amounts of uncensored incest!

FE4 is the darkest FE, and if Kaga thought Selpih x Julia was too much..... 

Let's just say that things in the hypothetical remake will likely be toned down even further than they were in the original. And that was during a time when such restrictions weren't as necessary. If Japan goes through with it, it will most certainly be censored in the US.  

Fates lets the Avatar marry Azura, so we'll see....   

4 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Not trying to support the pro-incest people on this thread, but wasn't this only because Arvis and Deirdre both had the requisite Loptyr blood in them?

 

3 hours ago, Slumber said:

My post was a joke. 

All jokes aside, this is a real concern. Holy blood has no hard and fast rules, so Seliph and Julia not having minor Loptyr on their chart doesn't mean that it isn't swimming around as a recessive gene. This means that Seliph x Julia could possibly produce or lead to down the line, an heir to the Loptyr tome.

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Weren't FE4 and A Game of Thrones both published in 1995?

Edited by Paper Jam

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5 hours ago, Paper Jam said:

Weren't FE4 and A Game of Thrones both published in 1995?

Geneology of the holy war: May 24th, 1996

Game of thrones: August 1st 1996 (in the US). IDK what publication dates are in other regions, although these novels are so long that they are sometimes broken into multiple books in other languages.)

As for themes, just read any book of medieval history, or watch any documentary, especially anything with David Starky as the narrator (as he is melodramatic, and does not spare disturbing detail).  "Monarchy" is good (and came out before the TV show). It is telling that lots of material "inspired" by game of thrones is either nonfiction or historical fiction. Not to mention that Medieval stories have lots of this too. Keep in mind that a popular version of the king Arther myth has him getting killed by his illegitimate son, whose mother was Arther's half sister (although modern adaptions often change this to be Morgan le fey, an unrelated (pun intended) villain). Not to mention the part where Arther's right hand man has an affair with his wife, which causes a civil war when discovered. And that's not even getting into feudal Japan...

Edited by sirmola

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On 2/21/2018 at 1:35 AM, Køkø said:

FE4 is the darkest FE, and if Kaga thought Selpih x Julia was too much..... 

Let's just say that things in the hypothetical remake will likely be toned down even further than they were in the original. And that was during a time when such restrictions weren't as necessary. If Japan goes through with it, it will most certainly be censored in the US.  

Fates lets the Avatar marry Azura, so we'll see....

You think Seliph x Julia is too much? According to developer notes, iirc, Julius was originally going to have sex with his own mother at one point in the story....for some unexplained reason.

Buuut anyways, Pretty sure that in a remake, Julia x Seliph would be impossible, probably by just not letting any increase of love points between them. In fact I would expect most of the incest relationships with the exception of the plot important Arvis x Deirdre to be toned down.

Or they would just do a Fates thing where family tree shenanigans makes Corrin marrying any of his brothers or sisters totally okay. I could see that happening with Lachesis and Eldigan, at least.

 

As for the topic, don't all medieval stories have many similarities with each other? I'll admit, I haven't read that many, but most of them tend to at least have a serious dark tone,  

  

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I do find it immensely amusing to imagine Martin is secretly a hard core Fire Emblem fan that learned Japanese and imported Holy War on day 1.

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Because the history that this stuff was inspired by had these things. Real incest, though, weakens the physical and mental aspects of the offspring to the point that the family may be infertile a few generations down the road instead of allowing access to a uberbook that lets some dragon possess your mind and become a tyrannical god. Of course, such inability to function can eventually cause the disorder that leads to a revolution, but that's something else. It's not just medieval history, but all the up until the maybe the first world war the continent of Europe was basically basically a volatile powder keg of alliances.

Julia is nothing like Dany though. One likes burn people up if they don't bend the knee. Julia was initially stuck with amnesia and gets bailed out because of momma warping her away and Forseti-possessed Levin taking her to Seliph. 

The incest is real and stuff did get complicated. But Eldigan is not Jamie and Lachesis is not Cersei. Eldgian isn't even king of Augustria, but rather Shagall. And another Augustrian noble in Elliot wanted Lachesis and would have killed her. 

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