Johann Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Ah, my mistake, I misread my sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoblongoo Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 On a related note: shooter is in custody--physically unharmed, having been detained and arrested without incident--and is undergoing psychiatric evaluation as he awaits trial. Tamir Rice is dead beause a cop observed him playing with a toy gun. (the cop was never punished and was deemed to have acted reasonably) For those who still don't get how this is a race thing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPR Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 One thing that does bug me about all of this is that the political tribesmaship of the whole affair seems to be creating a significant communication gap between people of opposing political views on this topic. For instance, one of my libertarian friends said that he didn't trust the government to properly institute a gun ban. In response, someone said that he was complicit in the murder of children. I think everyone needs to take a step back and recognize going into this that the vast majority of people on both sides of the political spectrum don't want kids to get murdered in school. If we use that as a starting point and just ask whoever we are talking to what they think would make things better we would be at each other's throats a bit less. A while back we came very close to tackling mental health as it relates to gun violence because it didn't touch as heavily on the second amendment as outright gun bans. That seems like a good place to start. Unfortunately, with the political climate as it is, I doubt even the most regular Washington business will get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 @Shoblongoo Also worth noting that racism/xenophobia/etc often plays a major role in influencing shooters. @NPR Bonus chart showing what's been done in Congress since Sandy Hook. NRA influence is crazy. I recall hearing a piece on NPR about a ban on toy guns in Louisiana schools (which was proposed by some very conservative lawmakers) and it got crushed hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 It's worth noting that there was an armed guard present at the school. Didn't do shit. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/armed-guard-florida-school-encountered-rampaging-gunman-article-1.3822777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical CC Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) On 2/16/2018 at 10:23 AM, Gebby said: Personally, I think we should arm teachers. Annual background checks, monthly appointments with therapists to ensure mental well-being, the gun must be concealed. Stuff like that, to keep it out of mind, but there in case of emergency. Not with that kind of garbage salary and that much responsibility. Not a teacher myself but my parents and two of my friends are so I knew enough to never study to become a teacher. It's garbage job with garbage salary and horrendous amount of responsibility that only special kind of people would find it fun to be teacher. And if something goes wrong, you are the one to take all the blames. I wont be surprised if the armed teachers gonna be the one to snap first and shoot the whole class. Also, dont you find arming the teachers just make it worse? What is next? Arm the janitors? Arm the students!? Arm every citizen? It's ridiculous and very America-ish if I have to say. Edited February 17, 2018 by Magical CC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRZNHeir Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I'm of the opinion that we should analyze the system that allows for the type of development that makes someone think that an act such as this is okay. That includes publicizing incidents like this. Why would you say the name of someone who caused this big of a tragedy? That immortalizes them, makes them a figure in history. Some people may want that. Announcing these incidents may be needed, but saying the name of the person who took those lives may just feed the fire. Background checks and the likes are needed, but increasing gun control to the point that those of a correct mindset cannot get firearms is counterproductive, but decreasing the restrictions on who is allowed to get them, or arming more people could be just as destructive. There really is no right answer for a country built upon some of the laws and values that America is. The question should be "How can we keep people from believing that causing a massive loss of life is something that they seriously wish to do?" rather than "How can we keep people from accessing the weapons that have multiple purposes?" Also note- They should note be politicizing these incidents either. It happens often enough that it's become a tradition, essentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sias Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 hours ago, FRZNHeir said: Background checks and the likes are needed, but increasing gun control to the point that those of a correct mindset cannot get firearms is counterproductive, but decreasing the restrictions on who is allowed to get them, or arming more people could be just as destructive. There really is no right answer for a country built upon some of the laws and values that America is. The question should be "How can we keep people from believing that causing a massive loss of life is something that they seriously wish to do?" rather than "How can we keep people from accessing the weapons that have multiple purposes?" It's terribly unrealistic that congress would pass legislation making it impossible for "people with the correct mindest" to get their hands on some guns, especially considering how much Americans love their firearms. Most of the talk I've been hearing about the issue suggests the need for more background checks and the closure of gun loopholes, neither of which are bad things imo. There's also the problem with semi-automatic rifles because really, what "multiple purposes" do they have besides killing as many people as quickly as possible? Quote Also note- They should note be politicizing these incidents either. It happens often enough that it's become a tradition, essentially. When should people try to tackle the USA's gun issues instead? As soon as these incidents are over, noone really cares anymore and nothing gets done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 12 hours ago, FRZNHeir said: I'm of the opinion that we should analyze the system that allows for the type of development that makes someone think that an act such as this is okay. That includes publicizing incidents like this. Why would you say the name of someone who caused this big of a tragedy? That immortalizes them, makes them a figure in history. Some people may want that. Announcing these incidents may be needed, but saying the name of the person who took those lives may just feed the fire. He is a figure in history, whether we like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Denver Fan Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Yeah I remember the day that the shooting at Sandy Hook, it was a tragedy that made police officers went into elementary school. The Church shooting in Texas, it was was a bad event that shouldn't of happened none of those shootings should happen we need tighter security to stop those shootings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 1:23 AM, Gebby said: Personally, I think we should arm teachers. Annual background checks, monthly appointments with therapists to ensure mental well-being, the gun must be concealed. Stuff like that, to keep it out of mind, but there in case of emergency. We can't carry automatic weapons around. Ownership of them is already tightly regulated. In fact, I don't believe it's legal to carry around a semi-auto rifle in most places. What we're capable of owning are civilized variants of weapons, such as the PS90, a civilian P90. (Not trying to start a fight, just informing) Do you realize the implications that this suggestion actually entails? It means a teacher, someone who works towards educating children, would be expected to shoot down a teenager in cold blood should something happen. That's an insane thing to expect of anyone other than a soldier. It's essentially suggesting that the education sector become a branch of the military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoblongoo Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 8:08 PM, Sias said: It's terribly unrealistic that congress would pass legislation. Everything after these eight words is, sadly, superfluous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 2/18/2018 at 3:43 PM, Jotari said: Do you realize the implications that this suggestion actually entails? It means a teacher, someone who works towards educating children, would be expected to shoot down a teenager in cold blood should something happen. That's an insane thing to expect of anyone other than a soldier. It's essentially suggesting that the education sector become a branch of the military. Not to mention, it only addresses the problem in schools, while we have mass shooting in all manner of public places. Increasing "security" through hard measures like guards and weaponry is impossible or at least highly impractical. The best things we can do are preventative, like keeping guns out of the wrong hands, getting people the emotional/psychological support they may need, and the gathering/sharing of intelligence by the proper authorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 USA cannot be USA without mass shooting, it is what makes the country great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Thoughts and prayers, everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) On 2/18/2018 at 2:43 PM, Jotari said: Do you realize the implications that this suggestion actually entails? It means a teacher, someone who works towards educating children, would be expected to shoot down a teenager in cold blood should something happen. That's an insane thing to expect of anyone other than a soldier. It's essentially suggesting that the education sector become a branch of the military. Not to mention that teachers make borderline minimum wage. As if that wasn't enough of a deterrent towards people going into education(Teaching positions are filling up less and less around the country even though the student body continues to grow), asking somebody "Would you be willing to carry a gun and use it on a threatening student?" sure as shit would cause less people, who pretty much only go down this incredibly thankless job only with aspirations of helping and teaching kids(Or because they have tenure and can pretty much sleep on the job), to teach. You'd end up with a very small, speficic group of people who teach, and that group of people probably wouldn't be good for the kids. Edited February 20, 2018 by Slumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoblongoo Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Other countries don't arm teachers. Other countries have violent, mentally ill citizens. Other countries don't have school shootings. For all the twisting and turning I've been seeing from the usual suspects to make this about something other than the obvious problem; its very clear what we're doing differently to get different results. Edited February 20, 2018 by Shoblongoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Yeah, if you're going to expect security guards and teachers to be the hero and take such a heavy responsibility on, you could at least pay them better i hate to say it but I wouldn't trust some of my teachers in the past to have access to a gun even for just school Edited February 20, 2018 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoblongoo Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) The day they make teachers carry guns and make "in the event of an active shooter situation; open fire!" a job requirement for working in a public school is the day my wife quits her teaching job, and we seriously consider moving back to Taiwan. "What the fuck is wrong with your country?" was her reaction, when we were watching the news. And she saw that this was an idea being seriously advocated by lawmakers. Edited February 20, 2018 by Shoblongoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said: The day they make teachers carry guns and make "in the event of an active shooter situation; open fire!" a job requirement for working in a public school is the day my wife quits her teaching job, and we seriously consider moving back to Taiwan. "What the fuck is wrong with your country?" was her reaction, when we were watching the news. And she saw that this was an idea being seriously advocated by lawmakers. Can you imagine it: Required weapon training to become a fucking teacher? If someone wanted to take up arms as part of a living, they'd join the goddamn police force or whatever? They are there to teach, not bare the responsibility and expectation to kill people should the situation arise. Sure there will be a fraction of teachers who will be like "i'll kill anyone who tries it in my school" - but that will definitely not be the case for the majority of teachers. Seriously, people who think this is a genuine solution are fucking insane. Literally, mentally fucked in the head. You have my sympathy, USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperIb Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Raven said: Can you imagine it: Required weapon training to become a fucking teacher? If someone wanted to take up arms as part of a living, they'd join the goddamn police force or whatever? They are there to teach, not bare the responsibility and expectation to kill people should the situation arise. Sure there will be a fraction of teachers who will be like "i'll kill anyone who tries it in my school" - but that will definitely not be the case for the majority of teachers. Seriously, people who think this is a genuine solution are fucking insane. Literally, mentally fucked in the head. You have my sympathy, USA. If that ever does actually happen, I'm either switching majors or planning on moving to another country lmao. I cannot stress enough (like most) how stupid the idea to arm teachers is. I've already had my say on this subject, but whenever I see anybody propose this, I get extremely bothered. I am sure there are some teachers who are totally like what you said, willing to kill, but nope, not me, or most teachers for that matter... (also I would not trust some teachers with a weapon in the first place...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Raven said: Can you imagine it: Required weapon training to become a fucking teacher? If someone wanted to take up arms as part of a living, they'd join the goddamn police force or whatever? They are there to teach, not bare the responsibility and expectation to kill people should the situation arise. Sure there will be a fraction of teachers who will be like "i'll kill anyone who tries it in my school" - but that will definitely not be the case for the majority of teachers. Seriously, people who think this is a genuine solution are fucking insane. Literally, mentally fucked in the head. You have my sympathy, USA. Save your sympathies for countries that deserve it. Until we squash this insane "The only solution to violence is more violence" mentality, I don't want any countries feeling bad for us. It's not worth your time and energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Raven said: Can you imagine it: Required weapon training to become a fucking teacher? If someone wanted to take up arms as part of a living, they'd join the goddamn police force or whatever? They are there to teach, not bare the responsibility and expectation to kill people should the situation arise. Sure there will be a fraction of teachers who will be like "i'll kill anyone who tries it in my school" - but that will definitely not be the case for the majority of teachers. Seriously, people who think this is a genuine solution are fucking insane. Literally, mentally fucked in the head. You have my sympathy, USA. It's a great argument to homeschool IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Raven said: Can you imagine it: Required weapon training to become a fucking teacher? If someone wanted to take up arms as part of a living, they'd join the goddamn police force or whatever? They are there to teach, not bare the responsibility and expectation to kill people should the situation arise. Sure there will be a fraction of teachers who will be like "i'll kill anyone who tries it in my school" - but that will definitely not be the case for the majority of teachers. Seriously, people who think this is a genuine solution are fucking insane. Literally, mentally fucked in the head. You have my sympathy, USA. Incidentally, even if there were teachers on board with it, most public schools are underfunded to the point of teachers having to buy any and all supplies. Any action that puts the cost burden on the schools/teachers/students is ridiculous. Republican policies, like the recent tax bill, often hurt public schools and those who attend them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Denver Fan Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 02/20/18 at 2:04 PM, Raven said: Can you imagine it: Required weapon training to become a fucking teacher? If someone wanted to take up arms as part of a living, they'd join the goddamn police force or whatever? They are there to teach, not bare the responsibility and expectation to kill people should the situation arise. Sure there will be a fraction of teachers who will be like "i'll kill anyone who tries it in my school" - but that will definitely not be the case for the majority of teachers. Seriously, people who think this is a genuine solution are fucking insane. Literally, mentally fucked in the head. You have my sympathy, USA. I think that is a bad idea, making guns required for teachers could lead to another mass shooting like we seen in Florida, it isn't only those teens that are capable to carry out a mass shooting, it could be a teacher that could start it if they have the chance, the only people who are supposed to have a gun in schools is people who are with law enforcement or a security officer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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