Should Reclassing Return / Unit Identity

[Mandokarla]

Reclassing as a mechanic has appeared on and off throughout the franchise, most notably in Awakening and Fates, so should reclassing return to FE Switch as a mechanic?

Me personally, I'd say no. Awakening reclassing made literally everybody (even Maribelle, somehow) viable because it reset your level and let you get a LOT of easy exp to pad stats. Fates reclassing was more balanced, because it didn't reset your level, and you had more limited options per-seal...but Partner/Friendship seals ruined that attempt at a rebalance, letting anyone be almost anyone else. The big problem with this is that reclassing kills unit identity. In GBA Fire Emblem (my favorite era of FE), each unit had a more defined, memorable identity because they were stuck in one role.

For example, in Sacred Stones, Neimi is memorable because she's a hot garbage unit -- she even admits as such with her quote in the Fomortiss fight. Lute is memorable because she has a pretty high magic growth for GBA. Ephraim is memorable because he's the only infantry lance lord at base in the franchise -- Hector has the same class novelty. Robin and Corrin both can be kinda whatever, and in Awakening and Fates units like Lon'qu or Gaius are completely irrelevant because what they bring to the table can be brought by reclassing half of the cast into a Myrm/Thief respectively. I have no reason to field Gaius or Lon'qu because I can reclass one of them into the other's base class to get the requisite skills and have the same promotion path. Whereas in Sacred Stones I have to chose between fielding Colm or Joshua for my sword unit (if I can afford to use one). Fun Fact: Colm has a higher strength growth than Marisa, and his base Str is only 3 lower, making him a better unit than her across the board :D  ) 

If reclassing had to return, perhaps limit it to only Heart Seals, because Heart Seals alone would actually sharpen character/unit identity. It can reflect their character and allow for them to use that part of themselves (See: Samurai!Odin, Cleric!Cherche, Barbarian!Vaike, etc -- where the reclassing options reference the character's story). 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I did like the heart seal options in Fates, I just wish they were all equally considered. Characters with no magic growth could reclass into a Diviner/mage. Characters with an amazing strength stat like Effie got the troubadour line. The A+ support seal is cool too since you have to pick one of two or three options. And the marriage seals are a mess. Trying to hook up everybody with the best marriage option and making compromises was more than I wanted to map out, especially in Conquest where support points are limited.

I think I'm generally in favor of keeping reclassing and branched promotions in a modern Fire Emblem game. But to preserve unit identity, I'd double down on personal skills and limit reclass options to zero at the start. I'm always spouting the same idea of unit growth through supports and paralogues, you see. Earning that character items or weapons that impart more personal skills onto them. Reclass options could be included there as well, like somebody reconnecting to their ninja clan, their old life as a priest, or coming to terms with the death of a family member by agreeing to take their sword. And as for the Avatar, if they've got a personal class, odds are it's one of the best in the game - they can keep it. If you don't want them to have a personal class, let them choose at the start, don't give them the ability to become virtually anything later. Class skills and skill scrolls can return, but I'd make an effort to make them easy to obtain and not game breaking. That way you avoid the scenario of everybody working toward the same build.

[AsherCrane]

I'm mostly for keeping solely heart seal reclasses. While it isn't necessary, a bunch of games where I wanted to reclass certain people into certain things got really boring and I fell off of them because I got sick of waiting to the point I could actually get the people I wanted together to get a certain class, and they'd still frequently have an E rank in their new weapon. 

I'd love to have heard seals be the only reclass option, and to have said reclass be considered in a way that both fit the character's identity and suites their strengths to some degree. I wouldn't really want to reclass if said reclass has nothing to do with the character's actual personality, but I also wouldn't want to reclass if said reclass fits them, but makes them terrible statwise.

Or I may just be salty about how roundabout you have to go in order to get a bow knight Takumi, and am taking it out on the system, who knows. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by AsherCrane

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

It'll most obviously be still staying in the new modern games so to answer the question yes. I like how Marriage seals gives you the opposite class of your/other characters opposing partner vias versa or friendship seals at A+ but its pointless for the Avatar since now all you need to do now is get to A rank with the same gender to get the class (although Male Corrin had to marry certain characters and required to have a certain secondary class to have all possible classes). All in all its fine Personal skills help keep every characters identify fine anyway.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Blade Lord Lyn

[Modamy]

If reclassing has to make a return I would rather that class skills be something kept to the class and only personal skills be carried over. The reclassing system of Fates and Awakening made all classes only about the skills it netted you and once you obtained them you would just reclass to something overall better and got to keep the skills which just served to make individual units overpowered. With personal skills carrying over units could still retain their identity and a niche that only they could fulfill even if they reclass.

Also this is just my personal wish but I'd like to see class skills obtained right away as opposed to leveling up to get them just to further emphasize what each classes functions are. I can't remember how many times I would play through Fates or Awakening and grind an individual unit just to get their next skill.

Though considering that the majority of the fanbase seems to prefer grinding and minmaxing their units I don't expect any changes like that to happen and for IS to just make tweaks to the current reclassing systems.

*sigh* hopefully they're good tweaks.

[god_ewan]

Yes, reclassing should return, and I have no doubts that it will return. I like it because it adds a lot of replayability to Fates and Awakening. It also gives me the option to use my favorite units in different ways and make other certain units more useful. I really don't think this is a unit identity issue as it gives the player so many options to make the game more enjoyable. And of course this feature is completely optional, you can keep units in their original classes if you want to.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Mandokarla said:

For example, in Sacred Stones, Neimi is memorable because she's a hot garbage unit -- she even admits as such with her quote in the Fomortiss fight. Lute is memorable because she has a pretty high magic growth for GBA. Ephraim is memorable because he's the only infantry lance lord at base in the franchise -- Hector has the same class novelty. Robin and Corrin both can be kinda whatever, and in Awakening and Fates units like Lon'qu or Gaius are completely irrelevant because what they bring to the table can be brought by reclassing half of the cast into a Myrm/Thief respectively. I have no reason to field Gaius or Lon'qu because I can reclass one of them into the other's base class to get the requisite skills and have the same promotion path. Whereas in Sacred Stones I have to chose between fielding Colm or Joshua for my sword unit (if I can afford to use one). Fun Fact: Colm has a higher strength growth than Marisa, and his base Str is only 3 lower, making him a better unit than her across the board :D  ) 

That last part is pretty dang obvious - FFS, Marisa joins at the same level as Joshua did... 5 (Eirika) or 7 (Ephraim) chapters after he did. As if that wasn't bad enough, aside from a luck lead, she doesn't really turn out any different from him even if trained... And that's a problem. Why use Marisa when she's inferior to Joshua in pretty much every way?

Anyway, I'm okay if reclassing stays, since I like the aspect of having different ways of using a unit.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Omegaprism]

Time for me to catch some heat, but I wish they would drop reclassing. In my personal experience it doesn't add to replay value, it just makes you want to stretch out a single playthrough, waiting until you finally have that perfect skill combination on your favorite units. This leads to otherwise pointless grinding. Fire Emblem was at its best when it wasn't about mindless grinding, and IS seems under the mistaken impression that having a single battle that you can repeat over and over again makes the grinding fun.

If reclassing must make a return I think it needs to be neutered, and the skill system needs to take much more inspiration from the pre-3DS games. Have skills be a precious limited resource. Instead of grinding for 50 hours to get a dozen units with Duplicate and Luna, give us a scroll that can teach a single unit Duplicate (though I despise skills like that, personally), or have two units who max their support rank be able to teach each other one specific skill each. Rather than five or six open slots, give each character a skill capacity number, and have the crazy skills like Galeforce take up more than the tame ones, like smite.

Reclassing has not increased unit variety or replay value. It has homogenized our armies. Not to mention the fact that whenever somebody gets reclassed, 98 percent of the time they just get their head on the stupid default body for that class, and they never let us buy any of the generic units' helmets to accessorize with. I wish they would let us customize our armies' color schemes, or insignia, or cover their faces.

[Modamy]

18 minutes ago, Omegaprism said:

Time for me to catch some heat, but I wish they would drop reclassing. In my personal experience it doesn't add to replay value, it just makes you want to stretch out a single playthrough, waiting until you finally have that perfect skill combination on your favorite units. This leads to otherwise pointless grinding. Fire Emblem was at its best when it wasn't about mindless grinding, and IS seems under the mistaken impression that having a single battle that you can repeat over and over again makes the grinding fun.

If reclassing must make a return I think it needs to be neutered, and the skill system needs to take much more inspiration from the pre-3DS games. Have skills be a precious limited resource. Instead of grinding for 50 hours to get a dozen units with Duplicate and Luna, give us a scroll that can teach a single unit Duplicate (though I despise skills like that, personally), or have two units who max their support rank be able to teach each other one specific skill each. Rather than five or six open slots, give each character a skill capacity number, and have the crazy skills like Galeforce take up more than the tame ones, like smite.

Reclassing has not increased unit variety or replay value. It has homogenized our armies. Not to mention the fact that whenever somebody gets reclassed, 98 percent of the time they just get their head on the stupid default body for that class, and they never let us buy any of the generic units' helmets to accessorize with. I wish they would let us customize our armies' color schemes, or insignia, or cover their faces.

I totally agree with you I think reclassing should go. Rather than trying to increase replay ability by changing unit classes and grinding they should increase it through making maps that can be beaten in various ways and giving rewards for taking the much harder path in those maps. Sadly I don't think the majority of the fanbase care or share this opinion and if they do haven't voice any complaints so, as I said earlier, I pretty sure IS will just make some tweaks to the Awakening/Fates reclassing system and leave it at that.

[YingofDarkness]

I'd prefer if they got rid of reclassing and they would just give everyone two classes to choose from. If they don't however, they should make it so that each class has skills that can not be kept if you switch out of them and add personal skills. The class skills will make them more unique from each other while the personal skills can make each character a little more unique and maybe even expand on a character trait of theirs (like Oboro's personal skill that makes her stronger against Nohrians). They should also limit the amount of reclassing that you can do to only partner + friendship seals, and have the character choose which line from that partner/friendship seal they want, and block off the other option.

[ZenJestr]

I think reclassing should return but it should work differently than it has so far. I think each unit should be locked to a particular class tree promotions should have more branching paths (meaning more than just two). So for example, if Nephenee was dropped into this system, her tier 1 would be Soldier and then she'd have the option to go into either Halberdier, Great Knight, or General and then from there they could either (if they decide to bring back tier 3 classes) have tier 2s go into a specific tier 3 or they could let the classes branch out even further. This lets players have choice in the direction they want their units to go in while still retaining a sense of identity for the characters. If you want to reclass a unit into an entirely different class, then I think they should bring back the specialized promotion items from the classic games (i.e. Orion's Bolt, Guiding Ring, etc.) and if a unit uses those then they get access to the archer class and its respective promotion branches or mage tree, etc. regardless of whatever class they were before (so back to that Nephenee example, use an Elysian Whip on her to make her go from a Soldier to a Peg Knight, Halberdier to a Falco Knight, etc.). However, to balance it out (so you can't just have a team full of Nosferatu-tanking Sorcerers), you can only every get 1 (or 2 if they bring back Secret Shops) of each of those specialized promotion items. I also think they shouldn't have marriage seals but instead grant paired units the last equipped skill they have upon reaching an S rank similar to how kids inherit the last equipped skill of their parents. 

[Sunsurge]

Definitely should stay. I think it add so much to the replay value and lets me optimize a playthrough with skills. I loved Awakening for this reason, because I didn't get "optimal" skills, but I did make my favorite units each really unique and the way I wanted them. Sorta like how Python in Echoes was an archer but I just felt he was SO much more of a sword fighter and so that's what I declassed him too. And to me, it just fit so much better. I like being able to choose a unit and their path. It's not like they gave every character EVERY single class, and so I enjoyed being able to shift characters around or get them new skills.

And also from a character perspective, I think the idea makes a lot of sense, because they're all in the army and barracks together, so I like to think of the characters teaching others fun things and them gaining useful skills from those lessons. So I love it in that sense.

Also, I think it makes units so much more varied than they were before. I did love the "personal" skill that Fates introduced, and think that should also be kept, though I felt Fates was really clunky for some reason (maybe it was just the story that made the whole thing feel incredibly tedious), but in Awakening, I built a very custom and fun army that felt very unique. 

And at its core, FE is a strategy game. And skills are just that. Strategy. I love making little charts and notes on sticky notes, planning out the perfect skills and how to attain it without having to spend 9 years of my life grinding away. It's just fun. It adds a dimension that reminds me of FFX and that whole thing, which I loved. So it should definitely stay. My only complaint is I want it to be a bit more custom. Like the armor. I don't want a head plastered on a default armor. If everyone is limited to 2 reclass options, then it should be easier. 

[Slumber]

59 minutes ago, Sunsurge said:

And at its core, FE is a strategy game. And skills are just that. Strategy. I love making little charts and notes on sticky notes, planning out the perfect skills and how to attain it without having to spend 9 years of my life grinding away. It's just fun. It adds a dimension that reminds me of FFX and that whole thing, which I loved. So it should definitely stay. My only complaint is I want it to be a bit more custom. Like the armor. I don't want a head plastered on a default armor. If everyone is limited to 2 reclass options, then it should be easier. 

Counterpoint: The strategy of the game stops actually being part of the core gameplay, and becomes something meta.

Instead of "Oh, I have Dorcas and Bartre on my team, how can I make use of them in a battle?", it becomes "What can I reclass Dorcas and Bartre to outside of combat that makes them just like everyone else that lets me bypass the difficult bits of actual gamplay?"

I like strategy games that give you rigid parameters, but lets you use work with them in clever ways. The Awakening/Fates style of FE doesn't have rigid parameters for strategy. There are damn near no parameters in Awakening.

Fates was definitely a step in the right direction, with reclassing being more limited, but it was arguably even more of a "If this unit can't get these skills, bottom tier." If they keep it(Which they will), I really think the next step should be limiting skills and reclass options.

As much as everyone says that it adds replay value, I don't really ever see myself ever replaying Awakening, and I don't plan on going back to any of the Fates routes besides Conquest. Meanwhile, I still have a hankering to do every other game(Besides SS outside of rebalance patches) at some point, and I JUST played RD, T776 and FE7 within the last year. I haven't touched Fates in over a year, and I haven't touched Awakening in probably 2-3. Every run in those games devolves into nearly the same thing EVERY time. While it was somewhat of a limit to not just the best units in other games, there are SO many more limits you have to constrain yourself to in order to not just reclass everyone to get their best skills, then reclass them to their best classes.

So yeah. I'd be fine with heavy limitations on classes and skills, but I'd prefer no reclassing. Skills are a whole different topic.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Slumber

[Shadow Mir]

On February 15, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Omegaprism said:

Time for me to catch some heat, but I wish they would drop reclassing. In my personal experience it doesn't add to replay value, it just makes you want to stretch out a single playthrough, waiting until you finally have that perfect skill combination on your favorite units. This leads to otherwise pointless grinding. Fire Emblem was at its best when it wasn't about mindless grinding, and IS seems under the mistaken impression that having a single battle that you can repeat over and over again makes the grinding fun.

If reclassing must make a return I think it needs to be neutered, and the skill system needs to take much more inspiration from the pre-3DS games. Have skills be a precious limited resource. Instead of grinding for 50 hours to get a dozen units with Duplicate and Luna, give us a scroll that can teach a single unit Duplicate (though I despise skills like that, personally), or have two units who max their support rank be able to teach each other one specific skill each. Rather than five or six open slots, give each character a skill capacity number, and have the crazy skills like Galeforce take up more than the tame ones, like smite.

Reclassing has not increased unit variety or replay value. It has homogenized our armies. Not to mention the fact that whenever somebody gets reclassed, 98 percent of the time they just get their head on the stupid default body for that class, and they never let us buy any of the generic units' helmets to accessorize with. I wish they would let us customize our armies' color schemes, or insignia, or cover their faces.

Counterpoint: outside of Robin and their children, units have limited reclass options. Also, this doesn't really hold water in Fates since there isn't a postgame to speak of.

[Interdimensional Observer]

59 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Fates was definitely a step in the right direction, with reclassing being more limited, but it was arguably even more of a "If this unit can't get these skills, bottom tier." If they keep it(Which they will), I really think the next step should be limiting skills and reclass options.

As much as everyone says that it adds replay value, I don't really ever see myself ever replaying Awakening, and I don't plan on going back to any of the Fates routes besides Conquest. Meanwhile, I still have a hankering to do every other game(Besides SS outside of rebalance patches) at some point, and I JUST played RD, T776 and FE7 within the last year. I haven't touched Fates in over a year, and I haven't touched Awakening in probably 2-3. Every run in those games devolves into nearly the same thing EVERY time. While it was somewhat of a limit to not just the best units in other games, there are SO many more limits you have to constrain yourself to in order to not just reclass everyone to get their best skills, then reclass them to their best classes.

I think its more and less limited at the same time in Fates. Seals not being infinitely buyable without online until later is more of a limit, as is the reduction from 2 alternative base classes to 1 for 1st Gen units. But with A+ and S, a 1st Gen character can get up to 4 base classes. Fates also lets you swap between classes without having to hit level 10 first and then reclassing, watching the level reset, and then grinding up again, which, if you have the Seals, makes Fates easier in this regard.

And I'd say Galeforce in Awakening is more of a busted skill than anything in Fates. And Fates having on the harder difficulties a harsh EXP curve, it is much harder to get the best skills (assuming one means 15 promoted ones) than in Awakening, but once you can get them in Fates, you can get them easier since no level reset.

Though in practice, I find the differences between two similar characters, let us say Kagero and Hana, in the same class to be too marginal to make them really that much different. So why does Hana need the flexibility to go Ninja when she will be only a little different from a Kagero Ninja (much more Skill and a little more Spd in exchange for a little less Str)? Or vice versa? And on this note Hinoka as a Spear Fighter obsoletes Oboro useless you grab Replicate, and all Hinoka needs for that is a fling with Kaze or Saizo.

 

This said, I don't think I exactly minded Fates reclassing, nor Awakening's generally inferior version, it's better than Archanean reclass. I mean would Palla and Catria rule the roost of Maniac/Lunatic NM if they couldn't hop in and out of Pegasus Knight so freely?

I'd be totally fine without reclass though.

[Cysx]

4 hours ago, Slumber said:

The Awakening/Fates style of FE doesn't have rigid parameters for strategy. There are damn near no parameters in Awakening.

Apparently quite a few share that opinion throughout the thread, and I have to say I'm a bit surprised; gen 1 of Awakening is actually pretty limited in what it can do and the assortment of skills one can get as a result of reclassing is quite different from one unit to the other, not to mention the cost of reclassing items, and their limited availability forcing you to make choices. Admittedly, gen 2 is pretty much a reclassing playground, but it requires planning and commiting to a duo for many chapters... which would be a problem if pair up wasn't as good as it is. On paper it comes with a cost, basically. And yes, the end result is a mess of overpowered skills, but it certainly doesn't get there until the game is almost over anyway.

As for Fates, it's a similar deal really, with the reclassing items being costly and on very short supply as well. A+/S supports also are things that take considerable time to get and limit your options(which again, would be great if pairup wasn't the go-to problem solver in 95% of cases), on top of the A+ selection per character being very specific, and getting an S-rank ridding everyone else of the mates.

I'm not saying there's nothing to dislike with the way it works, but some of you are making it sound much simpler and more permissive than it really is. Fates does have additional problems such as skill buying and special class seals, but the base system is sound in my opinion. Admittedly the end result can be a bit of a mess, but for most of the game, you can only achieve very specific things unless you grind. And really, take pairup away and it mostly falls into place.

 

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Though in practice, I find the differences between two similar characters, let us say Kagero and Hana, in the same class to be too marginal to make them really that much different. So why does Hana need the flexibility to go Ninja when she will be only a little different from a Kagero Ninja (much more Skill and a little more Spd in exchange for a little less Str)? Or vice versa?

I'm not sure I get that point either. Maybe this is assuming you're using one over the other, but just like the Cain and Abel concept, using both is a different and valid way to play. Beyond that, as Hana does not get ninja naturally, or even with an A+, on top of weapon rank rebuilding she'd have to be used as something else for a good while, resulting in the two units having been completely different for a very long time.

 

... I could do without reclassing, though I don't particularly mind it as long as it's restricted. I'm always up for stronger unit identity(main reason I love Thracia), but I do think both can cohabitate.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Cysx

[SavageVolug]

I have mixed feelings about reclassing on the one hand it can be fun to customize various unit class for example I always get a few laughs out of Azura being in Berserker as it clearly does not mesh with her personality at all. At the same time I believe it further complicates things instead of X unit being in X class and that's the end of it the unit may start in a given class but can change their class to A or B. Which is something I get a little tired of after a while (I'm not talking about branch promotions by the way those are fine). Probably it will return but I do wish that for the next game it didn't and we could take a break from the reclass system. Especially since a unit's class helps to not only define their personality but their role on the battlefield as well it also distinguishes between units making them unique. If everyone can be a Wyvern lord than Cherche's uniqueness is lost (I am aware that everyone doesn't have acess to the same classes through reclassing I was trying to make a point).

[Slumber]

7 hours ago, Cysx said:

Apparently quite a few share that opinion throughout the thread, and I have to say I'm a bit surprised; gen 1 of Awakening is actually pretty limited in what it can do and the assortment of skills one can get as a result of reclassing is quite different from one unit to the other, not to mention the cost of reclassing items, and their limited availability forcing you to make choices. Admittedly, gen 2 is pretty much a reclassing playground, but it requires planning and commiting to a duo for many chapters... which would be a problem if pair up wasn't as good as it is. On paper it comes with a cost, basically. And yes, the end result is a mess of overpowered skills, but it certainly doesn't get there until the game is almost over anyway.

As for Fates, it's a similar deal really, with the reclassing items being costly and on very short supply as well. A+/S supports also are things that take considerable time to get and limit your options(which again, would be great if pairup wasn't the go-to problem solver in 95% of cases), on top of the A+ selection per character being very specific, and getting an S-rank ridding everyone else of the mates.

I'm not saying there's nothing to dislike with the way it works, but some of you are making it sound much simpler and more permissive than it really is. Fates does have additional problems such as skill buying and special class seals, but the base system is sound in my opinion. Admittedly the end result can be a bit of a mess, but for most of the game, you can only achieve very specific things unless you grind. And really, take pairup away and it mostly falls into place.

While all of what you said is true, Awakening giving out Second Seals like candy, the fact that you can reclass down to level 1 unpromoted, AND that all of the units default to having 3 class sets immediately is way more egregious than Fates' use of the system. Yes, there's a cost to Second Seals since you can literally buy infinite ones, but the cost is not great. The game tosses money at you and if you let everyone who can learn Armsthrift actually learn it(Six of the first gen units), you damn near never have to worry about buying weapons after a certain point. There's absolutely no reason to not try to have every unit learn all of their skills, then reclass them to their strongest classes, which boils down to about 3-4 promoted classes that nearly everyone can change to that you're using at the end of the game.

And that's not even getting into the insanity that are the kid units that you touched on, who are so insanely broken when it comes to the classes and skills that they have available that it's borderline comical.

Fates at least makes you work for alternative class sets, you can't level down, and reclassing items are scarce(Unless you do MyCastle, which breaks the game in all sorts of ways outside of reclassing). Children are also nerfed to high-hell. You're generally incentivized to maybe swap between two classes for any given unit, as opposed to the 5(I think there are some units with class sets that overlap promotions) that Awakening incentivizes at minimum.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Slumber

[Fabulously Olivier]

I would prefer that reclassing be limited or go away entirely.

To me, branching classes offer plenty of variety while keeping unit identity intact.

[Emperor Hardin]

Personally I'd like to see reclassing take a break and instead we get proper members of each class.

Its much more fun to recruit a Brigand for example, then it is to reclasss Gregor into a class model that his head doesn't even look right on.

[Jave]

I'll take reclassing as long as it's limited like in Fates. And if you're going to remove limitations, do so for post-game.

Never, ever bring back DS-style reclassing.

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, Slumber said:

While all of what you said is true, Awakening giving out Second Seals like candy, the fact that you can reclass down to level 1 unpromoted, AND that all of the units default to having 3 class sets immediately is way more egregious than Fates' use of the system. Yes, there's a cost to Second Seals since you can literally buy infinite ones, but the cost is not great. The game tosses money at you and if you let everyone who can learn Armsthrift actually learn it(Six of the first gen units), you damn near never have to worry about buying weapons after a certain point. There's absolutely no reason to not try to have every unit learn all of their skills, then reclass them to their strongest classes, which boils down to about 3-4 promoted classes that nearly everyone can change to that you're using at the end of the game.

And that's not even getting into the insanity that are the kid units that you touched on, who are so insanely broken when it comes to the classes and skills that they have available that it's borderline comical.

Fates at least makes you work for alternative class sets, you can't level down, and reclassing items are scarce(Unless you do MyCastle, which breaks the game in all sorts of ways outside of reclassing). Children are also nerfed to high-hell. You're generally incentivized to maybe swap between two classes for any given unit, as opposed to the 5(I think there are some units with class sets that overlap promotions) that Awakening incentivizes at minimum.

Counterpoint: Most units that can learn Armsthrift don't have the luck stats to make it work consistently (those being everyone but Donnel and a luck asset Robin). Also, two of the first gen are late joiners. As for Second Seals, they're limited until you either clear a hard paralogue (which entails marrying people off) or chapter 16. Until then, getting more than 3 means hoping to get lucky with a merchant.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Luun]

I do typically like to keep characters in their base classes or similar ones myself, but I'm not sure I'd say not doing so kills their identity; their portraits never change, and they're still always associated with their base classes in dialogue and such. Either way, I don't think it's enough of a negative to outweigh all the benefits reclassing brings.

Overall though, I am kind of torn. I like having the variety and being able to get skills from different classes on my units, but I don't really like the grind reclassing brings along with it.

Echoing what some other people have already said here, I think I like the idea of sacking the different types of seals in favor of specific class changing items, like how Fates had for its DLC, and skill scrolls like the Tellius games had. That way you'd still have some options available, but you'd be limited to probably only one of each per playthrough, and it could cut out a lot of grinding.

 

16 hours ago, Cysx said:

I'm always up for stronger unit identity(main reason I love Thracia)

Never played Thracia, so I'm curious what you mean by this.

[Modamy]

3 minutes ago, Luun said:

Never played Thracia, so I'm curious what you mean by this.

I'm working my way through Thracia so I haven't finished, but I'm pretty sure he's referencing how some units of the same class promote into different things. For example, thieves in Thracia promote into thief fighters but one of those thieves can promote into a thief fighter or a dancer or thief fighter and then into dancer.

[Slumber]

21 minutes ago, Modamy said:

I'm working my way through Thracia so I haven't finished, but I'm pretty sure he's referencing how some units of the same class promote into different things. For example, thieves in Thracia promote into thief fighters but one of those thieves can promote into a thief fighter or a dancer or thief fighter and then into dancer.

There are a few cases of this. Most units follow their traditional classlines, but there are at least 3 cases of units promoting into a different classline(Another example, there are 4 Myrmidons in the game. 3 promote to Swordmaster, the remaining one promotes to Hero, which is part of the Fighter classline in this game), essentially giving them personal promotions. I am also a fan of this.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Slumber