redlight Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) Hmm. So they powercrept most weapons with cooldown trigger like Basilikos, Nameless Blade, Hauteclere, etc. Titania's Axe is definitely one of the worst new weapons. 16 Mt at least, plus you can at least give a speed refinement if you're going for the superboon in HP or def. I can't believe they already powercrept Arvis and Saias's tomes Edited July 9, 2018 by silveraura25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I hope the other gem weapons users don't suffer the same fate. :( Or selfishly, give that treatment to Hinata and Azura instead of Palla and Oscar, thanks. That said, with the introduction of a 16mt gem weapon, there really should be no reason the regular ones can't be given a generic refinement anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Titania's new weapon doesn't sound very impressive. Maybe being able to pack 3 different tactics skills on one unit is pretty cool, but I expected something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Okay, somebody's got a uninheritable gem weapon. NOW can we make gem weapons refineable? I highly doubt they'll fire up the PvP meta. What are they afraid of? I get that Raven tomes need to wait for Lyon to get a refinement, but gem weapons really never had an excuse. Titania's an unfortunate situation. I guess she's handy for Arena Assault since she's a cavalry blue check which will help you proc tactic skills. Just having Res Tactic on her weapon? I guess that frees up her C slot...or her Seal slot? Should have been Attack Tactic without the movement requirement. If Cavalry units had any unique class based skills to go in their C or seal slots then I'm sure somebody would be excited about this refinement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilda Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I dont see the problem. Titania is an excellent candidate in a Ream running mixed units and litrblade mages. Give her atk tactics from Legault and def tactics Seal and watch your other units murder everything while she chrcks blue units! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlight Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Hilda said: I dont see the problem. Titania is an excellent candidate in a Ream running mixed units and litrblade mages. Give her atk tactics from Legault and def tactics Seal and watch your other units murder everything while she chrcks blue units! The problem is rather big. Draconic Poleax's initial effect ends up being neutral. There is a advantage as well as disadvantage so you end up even. There are 71 units Draconic Poleax is effective against and 85 ineffective against. You could argue that the initial effect is a negative, but since the summoning pool's variety and number of units in each color is constantly changing, well just leave it a 0. Compare this weapon to Dauntless Lance. Dauntless Lance has a cooldown acceleration effect and armor effectiveness when unrefined. That's a +2 advantage. Nephenee procs her specials faster and is effective against any color of armor (a total of 22) unit without increasing her ineffectiveness against something. Res Tactics is the least impressive of the tactics skills and was even put on a unit who deputed with it yet was demoted almost immediately. Atk tactics took half a year to get someone with it to get demoted and we still haven't seen spd tactics in the regular summoning pool. What's more is that res buffs are usually the worst of the four stat buffs as it's only used against staves, dragons and mages. And there are more way more units that target def than res. While dragon emblem is a thing, is running a res buff in Titania's case viable when there are better option that give her at least a positive like a stat buff. You can use Titania for bladetome support, but that really doesn't help Titania out as a unit. Nephenee at least has a cooldown acceleration and a double stance which end up giving her advantage while Titania is stuck with getting no advantage whatsoever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 And then she also gets teased with the addition of the Flashing Blade seal which would be perfect for her, if only she could equip it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 58 minutes ago, silveraura25 said: The problem is rather big. Draconic Poleax's initial effect ends up being neutral. There is a advantage as well as disadvantage so you end up even. No, Triangle Adept is not neutral, nor is it a disadvantage. You're making the assumption that all match-ups matter equally, and that assumption is simply not valid. It's not a green unit's job to fight red units. How it fares against red units is largely irrelevant. Because of this, in practice, Triangle Adept's positive half is the only effect that actually matters, and that half is worth an absolutely massive +10-12 Atk, Def, and Res when fighting at weapon triangle advantage. Â It's the same argument for why Life and Death is such a good skill for Firesweep users. The skill has effectively no penalty because a Firesweep user cannot be counterattacked and should never be engaging in combat on enemy phase, making any change to their Def and Res stats meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlight Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: It's the same argument for why Life and Death is such a good skill for Firesweep users. The skill has effectively no penalty because a Firesweep user cannot be counterattacked and should never be engaging in combat on enemy phase, making any change to their Def and Res stats meaningless. I'm not sure if the argument is comparable because the thing with LaD and Firesweep is that you can escape to safety with skills like hit and run and drag back while TA doesn't really have a means of avoiding bad match-ups except by moving away. You can also use the firesweep hit and run and drag back combo to pick out units with armor march or those who will get affected by it and then use reposition Edited July 9, 2018 by silveraura25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, silveraura25 said: I'm not sure if the argument is comparable because the thing with LaD and Firesweep is that you can escape to safety with skills like hit and run and drag back while TA doesn't really have a means of avoiding bad match-ups except by moving away. You can also use the firesweep hit and run and drag back combo to pick out units with armor march or those who will get affected by it and then use reposition Triangle Adept doesn't prevent you from running Hit and Run or Drag Back, and Firesweep doesn't force you to run Hit and Run or Drag Back. The same principle works for both on player phase. You snipe the target you're looking for and then get your guy out of there. Due to the massive effective boost to bulk, however, it's also typically safe for a Triangle Adept unit to bait the enemy unit instead of rushing in. Either way, in the same way that Triangle Adept users shouldn't ever be fighting battles against the color they have disadvantage against, Firesweepers shouldn't ever be fighting battles on enemy phase. Match-ups in those situations are irrelevant to the unit's performance.  As someone whose main Arena offense team is three Triangle Adept dragons (because I'm old-school), I typically have zero trouble baiting units at advantage or occasionally with neutral weapon triangle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlight Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said: Triangle Adept doesn't prevent you from running Hit and Run or Drag Back, and Firesweep doesn't force you to run Hit and Run or Drag Back. The same principle works for both on player phase. You snipe the target you're looking for and then get your guy out of there. As someone whose main Arena offense team is three Triangle Adept dragons (because I'm old-school), I typically have zero trouble baiting units at advantage or occasionally with neutral weapon triangle. Oh. Stupid me. Didn't consider also running those skills with gem weapons, but usual cookie cutter builds I see come up have breaker skills against the same color Just how old school are you? How would you rate all of the new weapons? Nephenee will probably greatly impact the meta, but what about Titania? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, silveraura25 said: How would you rate all of the new weapons? Nephenee will probably greatly impact the meta, but what about Titania? Katarina got a good one. It's not as good as I dreamed of (Phantom Res is still my dream skill for a Ploy weapon), but it's good. I haven't yet had a chance to run Nephenee's weapon through the works yet, but it looks rather solid. The only thing that bugs me is that it doesn't really work well with her default Wrath because higher Def means she has a harder time taking the required damage. I suppose I can just switch to Quick Riposte instead. We'll see. Triangle Adept is a great skill for Titania because it covers for her lower Atk and Def stats. I'm just not yet sold on Res Tactic, but that's mostly because I don't run mixed teams very often anymore, so it doesn't really appeal to me. It's kind of like Corrin's Yato refine. Either your team comp works with it or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, you can just pick one of the standard refines.  22 minutes ago, silveraura25 said: Just how old school are you? My Arena core still consists of three launch characters (Mystery Tiki, Nowi, Fae) all running only launch skills except for Fortify Dragons, which is close enough to being a launch skill. They only new-fangled things they have are refines and Sacred Seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlight Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 @Ice Dragon They have good BST so thankfully they haven't aged badly. Being a loli has so many plusses in this game : )  I'll probably run a +HP -def Titania for score purposes. I guess speed refine is the way to go. Also, yipee for the the spd ploy seal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I'm honestly laughing at the amount of salt Titania's new prf weapon and its eff. refinery generated - just proves that so many people are just so used to using Titania as a generalist magekiller and think that the support role sucks. It's not unlike how many people basically LOVE to put dancers and healers into combat roles and think that a support role (even part time), is garbage for the unit. Nephenee's prf and its effect refine is nice as it allows Nephenee to differentiate herself from Lukas - a more easily obtainable and extremely minmaxed unit - as she actually has the Atk and Spd to more efficiently take down Draug, BK, and Zelgius. Similarly, Katarina's prf and its effect refine at least attempts to set Katarina apart from Tharja and male Morgan, who are both clearly superior choices for Bladetome mage due to availability (and having slightly better offenses for the case of male Morgan). From what I can tell, Katarina wants to enter combat with a huge stats difference in her favor against an opponent by stacking the Owl boosts, allies' Spurs/Drives, Ally Support (if applicable), and debuffs on the target from her Ploys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korath88 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) Katarina just becomes premium Arvis. Not a bad thing by any means, but her base swift sparrow doesn't go well with owltome effect. Mine is -Atk +Spd so I'll stick with blade regardless. Nephenee finally manages to differentiate herself with armor effectiveness, but while the base weapon is great, her unique refine isn't. Speed is rather redundant on enemy phase, since QR exists and the +4 doesn't help her avoid any notable doubles. +Spd is probably a better option. Though outside of anti armor there are still better options for lance infantry. Titania's is laughable. I really don't have anything else to say here. Spd tactic would have at least been a rare skill and thus more valuable but RES? Edited July 10, 2018 by Korath88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueFalcon Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Korath88 said: Katarina just becomes premium Arvis. Not a bad thing by any means, but her base swift sparrow doesn't go well with owltome effect. Mine is -Atk +Spd so I'll stick with blade regardless. Nephenee finally manages to differentiate herself with armor effectiveness, but while the base weapon is great, her unique refine isn't. Speed is rather redundant on enemy phase, since QR exists and the +4 doesn't help her avoid any notable doubles. +Spd is probably a better option. Though outside of anti armor there are still better options for lance infantry. Titania's is laughable. I really don't have anything else to say here. Spd tactic would have at least been a rare skill and thus more valuable but RES? I refined her Dauntless Lance with a +Spd, but I was doubting if I didn't choose the wrong refinement. I guess a +4 Def doesn't help her much alongside wrath, it was a good idea to come here and check other people opinions :D Edited July 10, 2018 by BlueFalcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Korath88 said: Nephenee finally manages to differentiate herself with armor effectiveness, but while the base weapon is great, her unique refine isn't. Speed is rather redundant on enemy phase, since QR exists and the +4 doesn't help her avoid any notable doubles. +Spd is probably a better option. Though outside of anti armor there are still better options for lance infantry. If you are using her as an Enemy Phase Spd tank, Spd is never redundant as it helps her prevent enemies from doubling and killing her. On Enemy Phase units, Spd and Quick Riposte serve entirely different purposes, so just because a unit is fast does not mean they can skip Quick Riposte. Spd is used for avoiding doubles while Quick Riposte is used to perform doubles; in order for an Enemy Phase unit to perform doubles naturally, they will need 55+ Spd and that is simply impractical to achieve on most Enemy Phase units. At merge +0, lots of Player Phase units can reach near 50 Spd, and the fastest swords can easily go over 50 and slaughter Nephenee with a Special trigger; an Enemy Phase Nephenee with only Fury and Spd Refine at 41 Spd is nowhere enough to prevent doubles. The more Spd she can get from her Weapon, the less Spd she needs to stack in other skill slots to reach a certain threshold. Her special Refinement gives her an extra 3/0/4/4/0 while Spd Refinement gives 5/0/3/0/0; the former is pretty much the superior option since it gives 1 more Spd and 2 more physical bulk. 3 hours ago, BlueFalcon said: I refined her Dauntless Lance with a +Spd, but I was doubting if I didn't choose the wrong refinement. I guess a +4 Def doesn't help her much alongside wrath, it was a good idea to come here and check other people opinions :D That depends on how you use her. For example, an Enemy Phase Distant Counter Nepehenee would very much rather use the special Refinement for more stats. For Player Phase and mixed phase builds, Spd Refinement is the better choice since the stat increase is always active during both phases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Korath88 said: but her base swift sparrow doesn't go well with owltome effect. Am I the only person in the world who uses mixed-phase Litrowl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) I own this t-shirt. I should shop the heads with Katarina, Mae, Boey and Canas. Edited July 10, 2018 by Humanoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korath88 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: Am I the only person in the world who uses mixed-phase Litrowl? Even in that case, wouldn't Katarina prefer fury for stats on both phases and to ploy better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Korath88 said: Even in that case, wouldn't Katarina prefer fury for stats on both phases and to ploy better? It depends. I'm generally leery of Fury's recoil damage, and I have typically found +6/6/2/2 on player phase and +4/4/4/4 on enemy phase to be fairly sufficient for my needs. That said, Mae has been running +7/7/-3/-3 on player phase and +9/9/-1/-1 on enemy phase with Life and Death, which has also worked fine. As for Ploy capability, I'm generally not worried about hitting more things when her Res is already as high as it is. Yeah, she won't hit Hardin or Jakob, but whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomata Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Did I miss an outrage? I don't really see a problem with Draconic Poleaxe being Emerald Axe but personal and refineable. In fact, I welcome it. Means that DC Emerald Axe builds aren't being immediately overwritten because Titania got her own personal. Res Tactics I kinda question, but whatever. Can't ask for every refine to make the unit OP like Lilina's did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, Xenomata said: Res Tactics I kinda question, but whatever. Can't ask for every refine to make the unit OP like Lilina's did. Having constant Res Wave would have been better in my opinion. Would have made her perfect with Blade ponies. Res Tactic limits her team composition too much in my opinion, so her niche is mostly just supporting Rauđrblade ponies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Draconic Poleax does live up to its Japanese name perfectly, though. The Greil Mercenaries are 2 cavalry (Oscar, Titania), 1 armor (Gatrie), and a handful of infantry (Ike, Mist, Soren, Boyd, Rolf, Shinon, Mia), so a Tactic skill makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlight Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, Xenomata said: Did I miss an outrage? I don't really see a problem with Draconic Poleaxe being Emerald Axe but personal and refineable. In fact, I welcome it. Means that DC Emerald Axe builds aren't being immediately overwritten because Titania got her own personal. Res Tactics I kinda question, but whatever. Can't ask for every refine to make the unit OP like Lilina's did. Reddit posts, comments, etc. Also, I see people make a big deal out of her emerald axe DC niche while nobody talks about units with DC weapons running TA. Granted there are other skills worth running over TA for infantry, armors and fliers Missed opportunity if you ask me as she has good enough res to ploy enough units to matter. The refine could've been something like spd/def ploy. The "she's the only one who can run three tactic skills" is a okay argument, but it restricts team building. Also, she already had another strength in the form of ploys, which existed before this weapon was released. Anyone else can run tactics skills, but not everyone can ploy. It feels sad that people are throwing her ploy capabilities out of the window because of the misleading refine. You can create a huge stat difference with buffs and debuffs working together. I'm not fond of the idea of a legendary gem weapon as any colored units can run TA and still perform roughly the same against a color they're strong against. Granted, she could run triple tactics, but ploys are too big of a deal to pass up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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