General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Ice Dragon]

43 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

So the higher up the tier list you go, the less the gem weapons help, which seems like exactly what would be ideal for that type of weapon and refinements in general, raise the floor not the ceiling.

This is exactly what Triangle Adept is supposed to do. The problem with refinable Triangle Adept weapons is the fact that it makes the weapons too good for units in the middle of the pack. It's raising the floor too much.

Solutions for the existence of lower-tier units should allow the bottom third to compete on nearly even terms with the middle third, not to allow the bottom two thirds to compete on nearly even terms with the top one third.

 

45 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

refinable gem weapons raise the floor by making that the dominant weapon type for lower tier characters, and even possibly mid tier characters, but remain at best a side-grade for top tier characters if not an outright downgrade.

No, gem weapons should be the dominant weapon for low-tier characters and a side-grade for mid-tier characters. Gem weapons should never be made strong enough to be a side-grade for high-tier characters. Gem weapons should remain specialized weapons, not become another set of general-use weapons.

 

53 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

I know you've expressed concerns about the number of unique weapons in the game anymore, and this seems like it'd address that while also being a more blanket fix for the truly awful characters and even a bump for the mid tier characters.

Refinable gem weapons will literally stifle any weapon diversity for the bottom half or even two thirds of units.

[bottlegnomes]

53 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's raising the floor too much.

I don't see that as that major of a concern, but eh, fair enough.

[Diovani Bressan]

Someone knows if Brazen skills will stack with Alfonse's refined weapon? I mean... Refined Fólkvangr + Brazen Atk/Def= +14 Atk and + 14 Def?

If yes, I will probably give Alfonse Brazen Atk/Spd, so he will have +14 Atk, + 7 Def and + 7 Spd if HP ≤ 80%.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Someone knows if Brazen skills will stack with Alfonse's refined weapon? I mean... Refined Fólkvangr + Brazen Atk/Def= +14 Atk and + 14 Def?

If yes, I will probably give Alfonse Brazen Atk/Spd, so he will have +14 Atk, + 7 Def and + 7 Spd if HP ≤ 80%.

Everything stacks unless they're field buffs or they specifically say they don't.

EDIT: Or unless they're Triangle Adept. Forgot about that one.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Diovani Bressan]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Everything stacks unless they're field buffs or they specifically say they don't.

So Refined Fólkvangr is better than I expected... thanks for the information.

[Jingle Jangle]

Characters I think will need a refine to be better

• Tana: Vidofnir is lackluster compared to other lances that give higher bonus when attacked.
• Lyon: Being a strong raven user isn't that impressive these ways.
• Olwen: She doesn't have the attack needed to use Dire Thunder, maybe she can she can get a refine exclusive to her.
• Deirdre/Julia: Dragons are too tanky to be one shotted, plus most of the time they target their low defense.

Also is a good idea for characters to have a re-refine? For those refines that are lackluster.

[redlight]

13 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Characters I think will need a refine to be better

• Tana: Vidofnir is lackluster compared to other lances that give higher bonus when attacked.
• Lyon: Being a strong raven user isn't that impressive these ways.
• Olwen: She doesn't have the attack needed to use Dire Thunder, maybe she can she can get a refine exclusive to her.
• Deirdre/Julia: Dragons are too tanky to be one shotted, plus most of the time they target their low defense.

Also is a good idea for characters to have a re-refine? For those refines that are lackluster.

Regarding Olwen. They could give her Thunderhead, but that remains to be seen.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Tana: Vidofnir is lackluster compared to other lances that give higher bonus when attacked.

The only other lances that give bonus stats on enemy phase are Reprisal Lance (+6 Atk) and Berkut's Lance (+7 Res). Vidofnir is +7 Def against all enemies where it would matter except bows and daggers. I agree that Vidofnir is in need of a refine, but not for the reason that other lances give a higher bonus.

 

2 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Olwen: She doesn't have the attack needed to use Dire Thunder, maybe she can she can get a refine exclusive to her.

They don't currently have a means of doing character-specific refines. Refines are weapon-specific, not character-specific.

The only way to do something like this would be to add a brand new skill to give her as a "fifth-tier" weapon in the same vein as New Power updates.

[redlight]

Wow. Nearly a month of silence. I hope I'm not necroposting

@Ice Dragon @Zeo @mampfoidHope I'm not being annoying and if I am I apologize. Could you review the weapon refinement ideas I came up with, please?

Laslow

• Laslow's Blade: During combat, boosts unit's Atk/Def by number of allies within 2 spaces x 2. (Maximum bonus of +6 to each stat.)
• Refinement: If a Rally Assist skill is used by unit or targets unit, inflict Spd-7 on foes in cardinal directions of unit through their next actions.

Raigh

• Apocalypse: At start of turn, if unit's HP ≥ 50%, inflicts Def/Res-4 on foe on the enemy team with the highest Spd through it's next action.
• Refinement: Unit and allies using magic within 2 spaces, against foe with magic, staff or dragonstone, deals +5 damage .

Boey

• Elder Fire: During combat, boosts unit's Atk/Spd/Def/Res by number of adjacent allies × 2.
• Refinement: At start of even-numbered turns, grants Def+6 to unit and adjacent allies for 1 turn.

Mae

• Seraphim: During combat, boosts unit's Atk/Spd/Def/Res by number of adjacent allies × 2.
• Refinement: At start of odd-numbered turns, grants Atk+6 to unit and adjacent allies for 1 turn.

Gaius

• Sweet Popsicle: After combat, if unit attacked, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 to unit and allies within 2 spaces of unit for 1 turn.
• Refinement: If unit's HP < 100% at start of combat, no follow-up occurs. Against foe with sword, lance, axe, or dragonstone, if unit’s Spd - foe’s Spd ≥ 1, foe can’t counterattack.

Barst

• Barst's Hatchet: Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1).
• Refinement: If unit's HP ≥ 90% and unit initiates combat, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Leon

• Leon's Longbow: Effective against flying foes. Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1).
• Refinement: If unit's HP ≥ 90% and unit initiates combat, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Edited August 18, 2018 by silveraura25

[mampfoid]

@silveraura25 I'm not known to be a big theorycrafter, also I don't know much about the story of most characters (because I didn't play the FE games apart from Awakening). Anyway, since asked I'll give my opinion: 

In general most weapons seem realistic and not overdone, I like the names. Some seem even a little boring without their special refinement, as they are only prf versions of the vanilla inheritable weapons (Boey, Mae, Barst, Peri & Leon).

• Laslow doesn't seem to be the guy who "chills" his enemies to their bone (in comparison to Walhart i.e.). His refinement is an interesting idea, it could make Rally skills shine more. Perhaps you could combine it with a (DEF) feint skill (like SPD feint) instead of Chill DEF? 
• Raighs weapon makes sense, but I don't understand the refinement. Is it like a RES debuff? 
• Maes and Boeys Refinements would have great synergy with the Owl-effect of their tomes. I'd fear to meet ranged armors with these in Arena. 
• Gaius' Popcicle powercreeps Sothes weapon, +4 on all stats would have been enough. The refinement seems too much, since its full Windsweep and half Watersweep without the drawback of those skills (no follow-up). Curious for the sprite though. :-)
• Bartre gets Ephraims refinement? Nice idea and it's goes well with his vanilla Brash Assault. Wait, your meant Barst? 
• Peris refinement seems strong, a little bit like refined Light Breath without the ally buff. It could be combined well with debuffs/smokes and Miracle or Galeforce. She won't be bulky enough to make @Zeos Matthew, so I'd had to think of a strategy for her.  
• Leo doesn't seem the unit for that refinement, even if he got a decent SPD stat. I'd prefer Guard or something that prevents enemies from follow ups to make him hard to kill. 

Overall good ideas! Whom would you refine first? 

 

 

 

[redlight]

@mampfoid Thanks for the feedback. Raigh's weapon's unique refinement is meant to be like Leif's Lightbrand and Wo Dao in the sense that it deals extra damage. Basically all allies that use magic within 2 spaces of Raigh, including himself, deal +5 damage on top of what the stats would have determined for damage. As for whom I'd refine first? Raigh because he's been made fun of so much

Chill Def for Laslow to be changed to Def Feint. Gaius's weapon to be nerfed. Yea, I'd change Barts's weapon since what I came up with sounds better on Bartre. I'll see how I can nerf Peri's weapon. I could give Ephraim's refinement to Leon instead of Spd Wave. Once I get home I'll do the edits

[mampfoid]

@silveraura25 Ah, I see. Seems like an interesting new skill/refinement for Raigh, he would be a good base for a mage team (along with his mother for example). 

I don't know if Peris refinement needs to be nerfed, since she can't profit from the buffs on first attack. She would like a dancer on the team. 

General though: It would be fun to have a skill that messes with the range of weapons. I.e.: "all ranged units within 2 spaces reduce their attacking range to 1, all melee units within 2 spaces raise their attacking range to 2." Not much practical effect, but fun. 

 

[Ice Dragon]

10 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Laslow

• Laslow's Blade: At the start of each turn, inflicts Def-7 on foe on the enemy team with the highest Def through it's next action.
• Refinement: If Rally is used, grants Atk/Spd+3 to all allies within 2 spaces of unit.

Chill has the issue of not always hitting the target you want it to hit, and this is most notable in the case of Def. Unlike Spd or Res, where you're likely to have the opponent with only one or two standout units, Def is a stat that (1) a lot of units are likely to have high stat values for and (2) is a common stat to feign lower values with in-combat effects like Steady Breath. I would even lean towards giving him something less "interesting" like Fierce Stance.

Rally skills are already commonly seen at the top of the Arena out of necessity, and I don't think they need a buff of that sort. I could see a Feint skill being used instead, but if you want something for a Rally skill, I might even suggest giving it a self-dance effect when a Rally is used like Future Vision.

 

10 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Raigh

• Apocalypse: Effective against armored and cavalry foes.
• Refinement: Enemies within 2 spaces take +5 damage when hit by a magic attack.

The base effect makes zero sense from a lore perspective. I notice you're trying to base his weapon off of his default Raudhrwolf, but I see no need for that.

I honestly imagine Apocalypse to just be a carbon copy of Forblaze. (Or more accurately, I feel like Forblaze stole the effect that should have gone to Apocalypse.)

If not Forblaze's effect or something similar, I could see it having Litrowl as one effect and Fierce Stance as the other. May as well let Canas have it, too, since the two of them are pretty much the same unit.

 

10 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Peri

• Peri's Lance: Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1).
• Refinement: After combat, if unit attacked, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+7 to unit.

I would never use this weapon's unique refine. It's strictly inferior to the Spd refine. Peri is not an enemy-phase unit and won't be even with the buffs (especially because they're only +1/1/1/1 compared to standard full cavalry buffs), which means she cannot take advantage of the boost to stats without dancer support. (Reminder that if a field buff is applied on enemy phase, it expires at the start of player phase, meaning you still cannot make use of it on player phase.)

Honestly, Peri is one of the units I would imagine simply getting a carbon copy of Hauteclere. But at the same time, Peri is also still the best lance cavalry in the game not named Ephraim and isn't really in need of a new weapon.

[Corrobin]

Selena

• Nohrian Longsword-Effective against Armored units. If unit's Speed is equal to or higher than opponent's Speed, unit gains +7 Attack.
• Refine- When attacked at 2 Range, always use the highest of Defense or Resistance.

[ILikeKirbys]

@silveraura25 Cool refinements: Going item-by-item for a sec:

Laslow: DEF Feint is cool on him, and the area-Rally-buff is neat too. I could see myself maybe promoting a Laslow for this. Maybe. Helps that I already have a +ATK Laslow at level 40.
Raigh: ...Shouldn't Apocalypse have Dragon-effectiveness, if it's going to be effective against anything? Hell, if you're giving him dual-effectiveness, maybe something like Dragon/Flying, since Apocalypse was also effective against Wyvern Riders in FE6? I do like the idea of giving him dual-effectiveness though, and the skill-refinement is something that interests me.
Boey/Mae: Gonna tackle these two together because my thoughts on them are fairly similar: I like the Wave skills being on their weapons, especially Boey getting Even DEF Wave since we have Odd DEF Wave and thus could equip that and get +6 DEF every turn. Mae's isn't quite as good until we get Even ATK Wave, but I do like pushing into Mae's best stat there. Plus they both kept their Owls, which I also like because I like the owl tomes.
Gaius: I don't see Gaius powercreeping Sothe here. The default effect is a nice buff, but it doesn't debuff enemies (unless you left that part out), so Peshkatz still has debuffing enemies over Gaius's Popsicle. I do agree with nerfing the skill-refinement tho, as IMO it Firesweeps one weapon type too many (it reminds me of Jaffar's effect, but he only hits Tomes... while I'd be okay with Gaius hitting any 3 of those weapon-types, all 4 strikes me as a little much).
Barst: Giving him Seigmund's Follow-Up Ring 1 effect is something I quite like. Armored-effectiveness is also cool. I like. Not enough to stop using every Barst I pull for Reposition fodder, but it's still neat.
Peri: Is that her Bloodthirst skill from Fates? I like, though she most likely wants Galeforce and/or a Dancer to make the most of those buffs. And she keeps her Slaying Lance effect, which is nice. Probably my favorite weapon out of these, might make me dust off the 5-Star Peri that pitybroke me last year who's been collecting dust in my barracks since then.
Leon: Probably could've covered him with Boey and Mae, but I like him. Like Boey, he can equip Even SPD Wave to get +6 SPD every turn, and he has a Slaying Bow still so he can run something like Ignis with QR for great damage (maybe pair him up with Odd+Even DEF Wave Boey?)
Overall: I like these. I like them a lot. Except Raigh's, and even then that's just because it's on Raigh and I don't like him.

As for myself, I've got a bunch of these bouncing around too:

Azura - Lady of the Lake

Blessed Lance | MT 16 | Recover 10 HP at the start of each turn.
Skill-Refinement: When this unit uses Dance or Sing on an ally, ally recovers HP equal to (50% of ATK - 10). [Minimum 7 HP]

Saizo - Angry Ninja

Saizo's Star | MT 14 | After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts ATK/SPD/DEF/RES -6 to target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions. After combat, if HP < 80%, inflicts 7 damage to this unit, target and foes within 2 spaces of target.
Skill-Refinement: At start of turn, if HP < 75%, grants Special Cooldown -1. During combat, if HP < 75%, grants +10 damage when Special activates.

Subaki - Perfect Expert

Subaki's Pike | MT 16 | Grants SPD/DEF +5 during combat if unit's HP = 100%, but if unit attacked, inflicts 1 damage after combat.
Skill-Refinement: Grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +5 during combat if unit's HP - foe's HP > 3.

Selena - Cutting Wit

Selena's Blade | MT 16 | Adds +10 damage when Special activates.
Skill-Refinement: When ally activates Special, grants Special Cooldown -2 to this unit after that action.

Effie - Army of One

Effie's Lance | MT 16 | If unit's ATK > foe's ATK, boosts damage dealt by 70% of difference between stats. (Maximum bonus of +7 damage.)
Skill-Refinement: Grants ATK +6 during combat this unit initiates.

Robin (M) - High Deliverer

Levin Sword | MT 14 | Damage is calculated using lower of foe's DEF or RES.
Skill-Refinement: Grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +4 during combat when adjacent to at least one ally.

Robin (F) - Mystery Tactician

Robin's Primer | MT 14 | During combat, grants bonus ATK/SPD/DEF/RES equal to number of adjacent allies x2.
Skill-Refinement: Grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +4 during combat when adjacent to at least one ally.

Virion - Elite Archer

Superior Bow | MT 14 | When in combat with foe using Bow, this unit performs a counterattack and foe does not.
Skill-Refinement: When foe initiates combat and uses Bow, Dagger, Tome or Staff, grants DEF/RES +6 during combat.

Sophia - Nabata Prophet

Lunar Tome | MT 14 | When Special activates, resolve combat as though foe suffered DEF/RES -30%.
Skill-Refinement: If foe performs at least two attacks, grants DEF/RES +6 during combat.

Julia - Naga's Blood

Naga [Refine] | MT 14 | Effective vs. Dragonstones. During combat, damage dealt to this unit is calculated using higher of this unit's DEF or RES.
Skill-Refinement: When in combat with foe using Dragonstone with HP > 50%, this unit performs a follow-up attack and foe does not.

Jagen - Veteran Knight

Tactician's Spear | MT 16 | At start of turn, inflicts ATK/DEF -4 on foes in cardinal directions with lower RES than this unit through their next action.
Skill-Refinement: Grants DEF/RES +3 to allies within 2 spaces during combat.

Palla - Eldest Whitewing

Whitewing Blade | MT 16 | Grants DEF/RES +4 to Flying allies within 2 spaces during combat.
Skill-Refinement: When this unit initiates combat with at least 2 Flying allies within 2 spaces, grants Special Cooldown -2 before combat and grants ATK +4 and Special Charge +1 during combat.

Catria - Middle Whitewing

Whitewing Lance | MT 16 | Grants SPD +6 when this unit initiates combat.
Skill-Refinement: When this unit initiates combat with at least 2 Flying allies within 2 spaces, grants Special Cooldown -2 before combat and grants ATK +4 and Special Charge +1 during combat.

Est - Junior Whitewing

Whitewing Spear | MT 16 | When HP < 80% at start of combat, grants ATK/RES +7 during combat.
Skill-Refinement: When this unit initiates combat with at least 2 Flying allies within 2 spaces, grants Special Cooldown -2 before combat and grants ATK +4 and Special Charge +1 during combat.

Edited August 17, 2018 by ILikeKirbys

[Kruggov]

15 hours ago, ILikeKirbys said:

Effie - Army of One

Effie's Lance | MT 16 | If unit's ATK > foe's ATK, boosts damage dealt by 70% of difference between stats. (Maximum bonus of +7 damage.)
Skill-Refinement: Grants ATK +6 during combat this unit initiates.

Let's see... (+Atk) 43 + (Weapon) 16 + (Hone Armor) 6 + (Goad Armor) 4x2 + (Death Blow 3) 6 + (Base Effect) 7 + (Refine Effect) 6 = 92 attack. Do I see oneshots on anyone other than Hector? OH YEAH I see oneshots on anyone other than Hector. And in case it's not enough, Bold Fighter exists.

[redlight]

@ILikeKirbys@Ice Dragon  Thanks. I appreciate any kind of feedback

[Silverly]

Some ideas came into my head for some weapons/refines so why not. Bolded parts refer to the refinement. 

Florina

Rex Hasta| 16 Mt| Grants +3 Attack. Effective against infantry and armor foes. If unit’s Res ≥ foe’s Res +1, foe cannot make a follow-up attack.

Reasoning: Florina’s biggest issues are her lackluster attack and her (rather unfitting) slow speed. Her defense isn’t exactly flashy either. Only her resistance and HP to a degree are passible. Thus I thought of a weapon that could function around her strengths as well as bolster her offense. Now Rex Hasta was kinda hard to base an effect on given how there’s not a lot of lore to it and it’s merely a really, really strong lance. Thus I had to take creative liberties. Florina starts off with a Heavy Spear, so I decided to keep it for continuity and simplicity. However, that alone would have been pretty lame, considering Clair’s weapon does that and also calvary. So included another effective damage towards infantry units to give Florina more coverage and distinction. We haven’t gotten any infantry effective weapons aside from the very outdated Poison Dagger, so I think that would give Florina a much appreciated niche against not only armor units, but also pesky sword units and to a lesser degree lance units. +3 Attack is also given to make her job somewhat easier (and this was actually the closest I could come to the lore honestly as the high might was the only thing Rex Hasta had). Now Florina still has problems because even with the new weapon she’ll still be doubled and overwhelmed by fast offensive units. That’s where the refinement comes in. It shuts down speedy sword units like Ayra/Mia/Karla and allows Florina to use something like Quick Reposte to finish them off. She’ll struggle against green units, Firesweep weapons, and obviously archers, plus her player phase will remain rather weak, but at least she’ll have a helpful niche.

Mist

Elena’s Staff| 14 Mt| After combat, if unit attacked, target and foes within 2 spaces of target can’t accelerate special cooldown through its next action.

Explanation: Mist shouldn’t be in the 5* pool, but if she’s going to be there, at least give her something to make her appealing. I decided to make up a weapon for her based around her mother seeing as she was also a healer. I think a staff inflicting a Gaurd effect would be very helpful against armors with bold/vengeful fighter and special reliant units. No specific refinement for Mist as healers only get wrathful/dazzling refines as of writing.

I might do some more later because Florina took longer than I thought but feel free to give feedback and all.

[ILikeKirbys]

2 hours ago, Kruggov said:

Let's see... (+Atk) 43 + (Weapon) 16 + (Hone Armor) 6 + (Goad Armor) 4x2 + (Death Blow 3) 6 + (Base Effect) 7 + (Refine Effect) 6 = 92 attack. Do I see oneshots on anyone other than Hector? OH YEAH I see oneshots on anyone other than Hector. And in case it's not enough, Bold Fighter exists.

Haha, I completely forgot Bold Fighter existed when I made that weapon. Shit, this thing might be a bit better than I thought.

I was shooting for a physical version of Lilina (massive power for one-shotting, except unlike Lilina, Effie can protect herself from getting doubled by anything she doesn't kill or anyone who attacks her since she's an Armor and thus has low mobility with Wary Fighter, and instead of having Chill DEF [to mimic Forblaze's Chill RES] I gave her an ATK-based version of the Vassal's Blade/Giga Excalibur effect [to mimic her Puissance skill from Fates]), and judging from your calculations I think I succeeded, but combine that much power with Bold Fighter to give Effie a second shot (and drop a Special on whichever poor unfortunate soul got in Effie's way... Though with this much power, does she even need an offensive Special for people who aren't Hector or M!Grima?)... Is there anything an Effie with all those buffs can't ORKO on her turn? And out of those units, do they still survive after a Chill DEF debuff?

[bottlegnomes]

@ILikeKirbys I feel like she'd still prefer Berkut's Lance+ given no limit to resources. Her attack is already massive and BL+ makes her a pain in the ass for mages to deal with on top of being a pain for physical units. I suppose for people who can't get DC/BF, then that might be preferable to the brave lance setup.

[Ice Dragon]

8 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

We haven’t gotten any infantry effective weapons aside from the very outdated Poison Dagger,

There's a very good reason why there hasn't been another infantry-effective weapon in the game and why the only infantry-effective weapon in the game has 5 Mt and cannot be refined.

Almost 60% of this game's units are infantry.

 

8 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Rex Hasta| 16 Mt| Grants +3 Attack. Effective against infantry and armor foes. If unit’s Res ≥ foe’s Res +1, foe cannot make a follow-up attack.

Without the effective damage, this is strictly worse than a Slaying Lance. Florina's current niche is the fact that she's slow enough to be reliably doubled and bulky enough to take two hits, allowing her to retaliate with a powerful Glacies. (That's also the same reason Jagen and Spring Xander are mid-tier.)

Florina really just wants a legendary Slaying Lance with Atk/Def Bond as its refine. And if she can dump even more Spd for Atk or Def, then all the better.

[ILikeKirbys]

On 8/18/2018 at 2:29 PM, bottlegnomes said:

@ILikeKirbys I feel like she'd still prefer Berkut's Lance+ given no limit to resources. Her attack is already massive and BL+ makes her a pain in the ass for mages to deal with on top of being a pain for physical units. I suppose for people who can't get DC/BF, then that might be preferable to the brave lance setup.

Yeah, Effies built for mixed tanking probably need Berkut's Lance+ to compensate for her lower RES. But Effie's Lance wasn't really meant for that sort of build.

Effie's Lance is meant to work well with her base kit and minimal investment (mostly she just needs a Special, though the Heavy Blade Sacred Seal probably would be good for her too), by giving her maximum one-shot damage since Wary Fighter and low SPD means she's only getting one shot. The refinement just makes Effie more of a Player Phase unit by letting her effectively have Death Blow 6 to more easily activate the default effect and deal even more damage (+ATK Effie initiating with this weapon hits 71 ATK without buffs, so she should reach 78 ATK with her weapon's effect unless she goes up against someone with over 61 ATK).

@SilvertheShadow I quite like your weapon for Mist... though l still wouldn't want to get a Mist even with that weapon. I just don't like her stats, and no weapon can really make her all that great for me. I do look forward to seeing what you've got for other personal weapons if you come back laeter.
I disagree with you that staff-users shouldn't be able to get skill-refinements, and your saying that has spurred me to write up these (Celica is also here, because Ragnarok kinda bugs me right now):

Celica - Caring Princess

Ragnarok [Refine] | MT 14 | If unit's HP = 100% at start of combat, grants ATK/SPD +5 during combat, but if unit attacked, inflicts 1 damage after combat.
Skill-Refine: After initiating combat and defeating an enemy, this unit recovers 10 HP.

By default, Celica gets a proper ATK/SPD Push 3 on her weapon, lowering the damage she does to herself after combat. The skill-refinement mostly aids Celica in keeping her HP up as long as she keeps killing people so she can keep ATK/SPD Push active. Dunno if she needs it, but it just bugs me that Celica now has a worse version of a skill that's now in the game on her weapon, so I wanted to fix that.

Serra - Outspoken Cleric

Berserk | MT 14 | After combat, if unit attacked, grants ATK/SPD +6 and inflicts DEF/RES -6 on allies within 2 spaces for 1 turn.
Skill-Refine: After combat, if unit attacked, grants Special Cooldown -1 to allies within 2 spaces.

Serra takes up the Berserk staff, which allows her to give Life And Death-esque buffs and debuffs to nearby allies, which can be something of a double-edged sword. Less of a double-edged sword is the skill-refinement, which adds a Special Cooldown drop for allies within Berserking range, allowing them to activate their Specials faster. Maybe not the best thing (that DEF/RES drop could really hurt if you need someone to take a hit), but it's quite alright.

Lissa - Sprightly Cleric

Exalted | MT 14 | After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts status on target and foes within 2 spaces of target restricting movement to 1 space through their next actions.
Skill-Refine: When Special Charge = 0 at start of combat, grants DEF/RES +7 during combat.

Lissa gets a fairly straightforward personal staff, giving her a 14-MT Gravity+ with a wider Gravitying radius, which can be further refined to give a sizable boost to both of Lissa's defenses as long as her Special is charged (which she can charge via healing or attacking with Dazzling Staff, and she has access to 1-cooldown Imbue so she can get her Special charged pretty quickly), making her quite a bit sturdier than she normally is.

Sakura - Loving Priestess

Sakura's Rod | MT 14 | After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts ATK/SPD -7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions.
Skill-Refine: Grants DEF/RES +3 to allies within 2 spaces during combat.

Sakura gets a straightforward upgrade from her personal weapon, combining Fear+ and Slow+ for a great offensive debuff. The skill-refinement furthers Sakura's support role by giving her Drive DEF/RES 2, allowing her to potentially lower enemy damage by 10 if her foes attack a unit within that radius after she deals out her debuffs.

Azama - Carefree Monk

Hexing Rod | MT 14 | After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts 10 damage to target and foes within 2 spaces of target.
Skill-Refine: After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts a status on target and foes within 2 spaces of target preventing HP recovery through their next action.

Azama gets access to the Hexing Rod, which by default is just Pain+ with more MT and isn't that great for him (though he can now scratch foes with less than 35 RES, so maybe he'll kill someone if they've been reduced to 1 HP or something). The skill-refine boosts Azama considerably though, as it lets him prevent everyone he hurts from healing in any way until they act once, preventing them from simply healing off the post-combat damage that Azama dishes out.

Lachesis - Lionheart's Sister / Nanna - Nordion Princess

Earth | MT 14 | Recover HP equal to 80% of damage dealt.
Skill-Refine: Grants "If HP > 80% at start of combat, inflicts Special Charge -1 on foe during combat" to this unit and allies within 2 spaces.

Lachesis and Nanna get to share this weapon, the Earth Staff (because if we can have Wing Sword, then why not?), which is basically an Absorb with 14 might and a stronger heal. The skill-refine gives Lachesis and Nanna the ability to confer Guard 3 to allies close enough to be healed by Physic+, as well as giving Guard 3 to Lachesis and Nanna themselves, which at least gives them something pretty unique if nothing else.

Genny - Endearing Ally

Invoke | MT 14 | Damage is calculated using lower of foe's DEF or RES.
Skill-Refine: When Special Charge = 0 at start of combat, grants ATK/RES +7 during combat.

Genny may or may not actually need a personal weapon, but here's one anyway: Invoke gives Genny adaptive damage, making her the highest-ATK unit to have this available at all times (granted, her competition is Felicia, but still), which she probably could use since she isn't gonna hit anyone twice (like Felicia can) unless she targets Dancing Xander or -SPD Sophia or Dire Thunder!Reinhardt or something. The skill-refinement makes Genny better at the things she already does well when her Special is charged by giving her a great ATK boost (to deal even more damage) and RES boost (so she can maybe tank a magical hit if you need her to, maybe two if she has Miracle charged and uses that to take the second hit).

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by ILikeKirbys

[redlight]

@ILikeKirbys The way post battle damage/healing work is that first you heal and then take the damage.

[Silverly]

14 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Without the effective damage, this is strictly worse than a Slaying Lance. Florina's current niche is the fact that she's slow enough to be reliably doubled and bulky enough to take two hits, allowing her to retaliate with a powerful Glacies. (That's also the same reason Jagen and Spring Xander are mid-tier.)

Funny, that’s not what I hear from most people, nor the tier list that I’m looking says, but I’m getting sidetracked.

I think a legendary Slaying Lance is very trite and mundane. It’s not like we don’t have enough of those (Eldigan, Karla, Ishtar, Merric, Nephenee, Joshua, Minerva, Fir, etc). Plus, assuming we’re going off of Rex Hasta and not a personal weapon in general, a -1 cooldown wouldn’t have made much sense as it never had a higher critical chance. Granted, Basilikos didn’t have one either, but I think that’s just because IS couldn’t think of a smooth transition from Raven’s former signature weapon ie. the Brave Axe.

Perhaps more importantly, Florina’s speed hinders her greatly because she’ll be facing sword units who can dispatch her with a special (quite possibly boosted by Wrath), so the extra cooldown is meaningless if she gets 2HKO’d. She’s bulky, but not on the physical side. All she can do reliably is take on the Tikis and to a lesser degree Nowi and Corrin but... like, Falchions and better tanks exist. That’s why preventing follow-ups is so beneficial to her combined with the effective damage. She’ll have more options than just picking on dragons. Of course there’s no use to trying to improve that speed as it’s pretty much a lost cause, but we can’t act like it’s not a serious problem for her. Fliers in general (barring some exceptions) usually make for poor tanks, and the girl can’t even use a breath.

14 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Florina really just wants a legendary Slaying Lance with Atk/Def Bond as its refine. And if she can dump even more Spd for Atk or Def, then all the better.

I was actually thinking about Atk/Def Bond would be quite useful on the A slot with my Florina refine. However, as a refine itself it’d be pretty underwhelming for the reasons I stated in my previous paragraph. Plus what’s she going to run in her A slot? Distant Counter? With my weapon I guess it would be a solid option as she could tank mages and guarantee to kill them. With yours though it wouldn’t work. Mages can usually scrape by Florina by doubling her and procing a special unless they’re red, which are the least common among mages. With Colorless it’s even worse as 2/3rds of the group can easily get around her, and daggers can still possibly KO Florina if they have a Barb Shuriken. I’m honestly just kind of confused because you talk as if my idea is bad yet you point out the effective damages in a way that sounds like that’s what sells the weapon. In other words I’m not sure where you’re getting at with your critique of sorts.

9 hours ago, ILikeKirbys said:

@SilvertheShadow I quite like your weapon for Mist... though l still wouldn't want to get a Mist even with that weapon. I just don't like her stats, and no weapon can really make her all that great for me. I do look forward to seeing what you've got for other personal weapons if you come back laeter.
I disagree with you that staff-users shouldn't be able to get skill-refinements, and your saying that has spurred me to write up these (Celica is also here, because Ragnarok kinda bugs me right now):

Thanks! Honestly Mist is pretty subpar, even for a healer, but I feel the least that can be done is give her something of her own to make her “worthwhile”. The effect is actually something that I could see on a regular staff in the future and made think if I made Mist underpowered, but who knows.I kinda have a soft spot for her as well. I plan to do Marisa, Joshua, Azura, F!Corrin, and both Robins in the future.

However, I think you misunderstood what I said concerning refinements for healers. It’s not that I don’t think they should have them, which I actually do. The problem is that healers can only get wrathful/dazzling refines for staffs. It’s like how the stat refines for ranged units are lower than those of the melee ones. While it’s disappointing to a degree, it’s not like we can complain about having easy access to wrathful/dazzling staff. Maybe something might be changed in the changed in the future, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

[Corrobin]

Selena

• Nohrian Longsword-Effective against Armored units. If unit's Speed is equal to or higher than opponent's Speed, unit gains +7 Attack.
• Refine- When attacked at 2 Range, always use the highest of Defense or Resistance.

Hana

• Hoshidan Katana- -1 to Special cooldown. +6 to Attack and Speed if unit's current Special cooldown number is lower than opponent's.
• Refine- +10 to Special damage.