General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Sonya: With every new green mage that comes out these day, she gets more and more outclassed. Maybe she can get Mirror Strike 2 as a effect?

Sonya's biggest problem is that Wo Dao users want to be fast if they aren't being Infantry Pulsed to high heaven, and Sonya isn't spectacularly fast.

What she wants is either a means to improve her ability to double the opponent (guaranteed follow-up when opponent is at 100% HP?) or a means of getting her first Special activation to land more easily so that she can use Special Spiral the rest of the way (Quickened Pulse so that she can stack it with the Sacred Seal or Killer effect).

 

3 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Also I'm unsure about Camus getting a refine. Maybe Fierce Stance as a special refine to reference in high might of the Gradivus in the series.

A friendly reminder than any refine options given to Gradivus will also be available to Hardin.

[Jingle Jangle]

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Sonya's biggest problem is that Wo Dao users want to be fast if they aren't being Infantry Pulsed to high heaven, and Sonya isn't spectacularly fast.

What she wants is either a means to improve her ability to double the opponent (guaranteed follow-up when opponent is at 100% HP?) or a means of getting her first Special activation to land more easily so that she can use Special Spiral the rest of the way (Quickened Pulse so that she can stack it with the Sacred Seal or Killer effect).

I see, in that case, perhaps  something along the line of the ability to double the enemy if her res  ≥ foe's Res+5? Like Leif's Light Brand, that way she can destroy the lower res units in the game.

13 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Sonya's biggest problem is that Wo Dao users want to be fast if they aren't being Infantry Pulsed to high heaven, and Sonya isn't spectacularly fast.

What she wants is either a means to improve her ability to double the opponent (guaranteed follow-up when opponent is at 100% HP?) or a means of getting her first Special activation to land more easily so that she can use Special Spiral the rest of the way (Quickened Pulse so that she can stack it with the Sacred Seal or Killer effect).

 

A friendly reminder than any refine options given to Gradivus will also be available to Hardin.

I complete forgot about Hardin, maybe he's the reason that Camus don't be getting a refine any time soon.

[ILikeKirbys]

@Kaden
That first refinement option would be redundant, as Luke already comes with Panic Ploy in his C Slot... though it could be alright if you changed Luke's C Slot, but otherwise I can't see the usefulness of this.
The second refinement interests me, and while it would probably mostly be useful against Emblem teams and Bladetomes, that's pretty good if you ask me. I quite like this refinement.
The third refinement... I kinda like it. It's like a refined!Rogue Dagger+, except foes get their ATK/SPD nerfed instead of DEF/RES so your units will end up even bulkier thanks to that (plus I think the debuff might stack with any Panic Ploy-reversed buffs, so you might be able to see foes with -12 ATK/SPD). It does run into the problem of having to attack to apply those debuffs, but I still think it's a cool idea.
I quite like this idea, if it existed I might not have foddered both of my pitybreaker Lukes off for Panic Ploy fodder

@Jingle Jangle
That RES-based follow-up threshold for Sonya would be neat. I'd like to see that.
That Arvis/Saias idea would be interesting, and I would like it if that happened for at least one of them.
Halloween Nowi's would be nice, though I dunno if they'll ever give seasonal prfs refinements.
Camus... Hardin is the entire reason that I don't expect Gradivus to get a refinement any time soon, but that one would be alright with me if it happened.

So, here are a few refinements I thought of for units who may or may not need them:

Xander - Paragon Knight
Seigfried [Refine] | MT 16 | This unit can counterattack regardless of distance.
Skill-Refine: If foe's HP = 100%, grants ATK/DEF/RES +4 during combat.

As the one DC sword whose weapon isn't shared with another unit at the moment (I think), I feel like the safest place to start with DC weapon refinements would be with Xander. The base effect doesn't change, but the skill-refine allows Xander to effectively have his Chivalry skill from Fates on his weapon by boosting his damage dealt and reducing his damage taken when his foe starts combat with full HP. Even if that isn't your cup of tea, being able to give Xander more stats seems like a decent thing.

Laslow - Dancing Duelist
Laslow's Blade | MT 16 | If a Rally skill is used by this unit, grants another action to this unit. (Only works once per turn.)
Skill-Refine: If a Rally skill is used by unit or targets unit, inflicts ATK/DEF -5 on foes in cardinal directions of unit through their next actions.

Laslow gains a blade that lets him refresh himself by Rallying an ally, giving him much greater mobility relative to most Infantry units, and can also refine his weapon for ATK/DEF Feint 2, which lets him debuff foes with his Rallies. It's probably nothing especially great, but it at least gives Laslow some supporting ability and some mobility.

Fjorm - Princess of Ice
Leiptr [Refine] | MT 16 | This unit can counterattack regardless of distance.
Skill-Refine: During combat, if Special activates, this unit attacks immediately afterward. (Cannot interrupt a Brave weapon's second attack. Attack occurs even if unit is otherwise prevented from attacking.)

Fjorm strikes me as someone who could use a little boost, so she gets refineable Leiptr with the option to get the ability to attack immediately if her Special activates, letting her interrupt Desperation mages when Ice Mirror activates (Disclaimer: Leiptr's shiny new effect does not let her attack between the two attacks of a Brave weapon, so Reinhardt still gets to shock her twice, though if she survives she'll get two attacks in a row thanks to this effect), guarantee that she'll get to take advantage of Ice Mirror's damage-reduced-is-added-to-next-attack effect even against foes with Wind/Firesweep, Dazzling Staff or Sacae's Blessing or while afflicted with Candlelight, or pretend she has a Brave weapon if she's using an offensive Special and it activates. It's probably not too amazing, but it's something.

Narcian - Wyvern General
Rune Axe | MT 16 | When Special activates, recover HP equal to 40% of damage dealt.
Skill-Refine: When in combat with foe using Axe, this unit performs a follow-up attack and foe does not.

Narcian gets the Rune Sword: Axe Edition, which puts Noontime+ on his weapon, giving him some decent recovery when combined with his default Vengeance or any other Special, and also lets him have Axebreaker Infinity on his weapon as well, which lets him Breaker all of the Hectors (Brave is covered by Lancebreaker, which Narcian starts with) as well as asserting his superiority over all other Axe users by automatically doubling them while preventing them from doubling him.

Fae - Divine Dragon
Divine Breath | MT 16 | After combat, if unit attacked, grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +7 to unit and allies within 2 spaces through their next action. If foe's range = 2, damage is calculated using lower of foe's DEF or RES.
Skill-Refine: At the start of Turn 1, grants Special Cooldown -1 to Infantry and Dragon allies with lower HP than this unit.

Fae's base effect is fairly simple: Divine Breath is just Light Breath with more MT and bigger buffs, which maybe isn't super useful but might come in handy if you've got a Bladetome running around or something. The skill-refine is pretty much Infantry/Dragon Pulse 3, letting her lower the Cooldowns of her Infantry allies (potentially by 2 if you give her Infantry Pulse in the C Slot) as well as her Dragon allies (so she can extend the Pulse to Myrrh, Beachside Scion Tiki, and the Grimas, as well as any future non-Infantry Dragons), making her a good unit to have on those teams.

Please let me know what you think!

[Ice Dragon]

16 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

plus I think the debuff might stack with any Panic Ploy-reversed buffs,

They do. Debuffs occupy the "Penalty" slot. Panicked buffs occupy the "Bonus" slot.

 

16 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

It does run into the problem of having to attack to apply those debuffs,

That's actually a much smaller problem with Luke than with existing debuffers. Luke actually has offensive power to kill things and the bulk to survive counterattacks.

EDIT: And has access to Galeforce.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[bottlegnomes]

49 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

I complete forgot about Hardin, maybe he's the reason that Camus don't be getting a refine any time soon.

I think the bigger reason is that they're still hesitant to make DC weapons as a whole refinable. Ostian counter seems like an attempt to test the waters regarding what DC can be paired with without making it super broken.

As for Camus himself, there are a few options I can think of:

1. Say screw it and give both a refinement.
2. Make the refined effect something that would benefit Camus but not Hardin so much. This'd be tricky to implement meaningfully, but it is the one option that doesn't give Hardin a unique effect while boosting Camus.
3. Give the unique effect some condition that only Camus can satisfy, like "If wielder is Camus, Sable Knight" or "If wielder is cavalry." It'd be a first for refinements, but the general paradigm is there already regarding things like skills and buffs, just shifted into the effect slot rather than the restriction slot (I'm making up names for assumptions on how the technical implementations work).
4. Give Camus a shiny new weapon, like Exalted Gradivus (to go along with Exalted Falchion), probably along with or shortly after its introduction on someone like Sirius or, my preference, Zeke.

For 1, obviously Hardin doesn't exactly need a buff but, eh. I'll take it if it means my husbando can be great again. 2 seems the trickiest to implement as far as making an impact. It seems like it'd be way too easy to give Camus something impractical or overly niche, like "User can move through forests without movement penalty," in an attempt to make it not help Hardin. 3 seems like it might have the most development overhead, but I don't know for certain. 1, 2, and 3 all also still boost Hardin since even if he can't run the unique refine, he still gets +5 HP and +2-4 in another stat. 4 is easy and has precedence, so is probably the most likely route.

@Jingle Jangle What if we just gave Sonya the tome equivalent of Berserk Armads? I suppose Merric would get it too, meaning a 3* unit has a top 5 weapon, but it'd certainly improve the hell out of both of them.

[MilodicMellodi]

There's also another thing they could do with Xander: make him more like his brother, except base it off of melee units instead of ranged.

So he could take away the foe's counterattack when faced off against a melee unit with a Def lower than his, and instead of reducing the damage from the first attack (melee in this case) they could instead give him a flat Def+3 as a reference to Siegfried's effect in Fates.

Edited September 9, 2018 by MilodicMellodi

[Jingle Jangle]

9 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

@Jingle Jangle What if we just gave Sonya the tome equivalent of Berserk Armads? I suppose Merric would get it too, meaning a 3* unit has a top 5 weapon, but it'd certainly improve the hell out of both of them.

I'm mixed on that idea, with giving Sonya the Berserk Armads refine is that it doesn't fix her weakness. She is still slow by mage standards, and still needs Special Spiral to have specials every turn. Merric don't need to have access to her refine, Delthea cannot use Linde's refine.

[Chrom-ulent]

1 hour ago, Jingle Jangle said:

I'm mixed on that idea, with giving Sonya the Berserk Armads refine is that it doesn't fix her weakness. She is still slow by mage standards, and still needs Special Spiral to have specials every turn. Merric don't need to have access to her refine, Delthea cannot use Linde's refine.

How about something that Merric can't use very well - Atk/Spd Ploy? Sonya has just enough resistance to pull it off, Merric doesn't. Not sure if it would make much sense, though, and I'm afraid it could make her too similar to Katarina, except green.

[bottlegnomes]

2 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

I'm mixed on that idea, with giving Sonya the Berserk Armads refine is that it doesn't fix her weakness. She is still slow by mage standards, and still needs Special Spiral to have specials every turn. Merric don't need to have access to her refine, Delthea cannot use Linde's refine.

She could just run glimmer or moonbow. BA has +10 damage on special, -1 cooldown, and -1 cooldown at start of turn when under 75% HP. Give her QP and she's got a special set every turn assuming she takes some damage with say Fury. It's essentially equivalent to letting a mage run Wrath, but always having that +10 damage.

Edited September 9, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Kaden]

4 hours ago, ILikeKirbys said:

That first refinement option would be redundant, as Luke already comes with Panic Ploy in his C Slot... though it could be alright if you changed Luke's C Slot, but otherwise I can't see the usefulness of this.
The second refinement interests me, and while it would probably mostly be useful against Emblem teams and Bladetomes, that's pretty good if you ask me. I quite like this refinement.
The third refinement... I kinda like it. It's like a refined!Rogue Dagger+, except foes get their ATK/SPD nerfed instead of DEF/RES so your units will end up even bulkier thanks to that (plus I think the debuff might stack with any Panic Ploy-reversed buffs, so you might be able to see foes with -12 ATK/SPD). It does run into the problem of having to attack to apply those debuffs, but I still think it's a cool idea.
I quite like this idea, if it existed I might not have foddered both of my pitybreaker Lukes off for Panic Ploy fodder

The first two refinement options as I explained were the not-so crazy ideas in case the third one was too much.

The third idea I had Atk/Spd Smoke in mind first before moving to Clarisse's Bow and Dark Breath which targets the unit being attacked in addition to foes within 2 spaces instead of just foes within 2 spaces like the Smoke skills. The defense and resistance buffing I added in later just cause to make it this weird series of effects to increase Luke's survivability and reduce his enemies' offensive capabilities. So, Ice Dragon already addressed debuffs stacking with panic -- think of panic as a status effect that reverses buffs rather than as a debuff -- and needing to attack to apply the effects, but they were the central things I wanted for this stupid idea for Luke's personal sword.

Luke introduced Panic Ploy, so I figured why not let him take advantage of it even more by allowing him to apply both the panic status with Panic Ploy and debuff enemies with a new sword. He and anyone can do this already with Atk and Spd Smoke or being a unit capable of using weapons like Clarisse's Bow, Dark Breath, and Smoke Dagger, but legendary/personal weapons have additional effects that make the user more flexible and more unique.

The attacking part goes back to the discussion on Veronica's Hliðskjálf doing what dagger units and debuff/buff weapons better and freely in contrast to how dagger units and other units focused on debuffing/buffing with their weapons have to go through a few more hoops than Veronica does and healers do in general. I could talk about it further, but there are others who already did. With Luke, the idea was to leverage his high attack and also reward attacking if that part makes any sense. To apply the debuffs, Luke needs to attack someone. Well, the point of Brave weapons is to attack and attack first. The buff requirement of needing the target to be defeated was for thematic reasons, so it isn't really required and is just something there. If it is there, then it would be further rewarding Luke for attacking and successfully defeating who you tell him to attack. That is to say, not only do you get Atk/Spd-6 on the enemy by attacking with Luke, but you also get Def/Res+6 if you succeed in taking out who you had him attack.

With Luke's 34 neutral attack and default Fire Boost, he shouldn't have much problem taking out who he initiates on with a personal Brave Sword that has 11 Mt. 45 total attack, 51 with Fire Boost 3 which becomes 48 total attack, 54 with Fire Boost 3 if he's +Atk. Death Blow 3 is easily available and if you really wanted to, Death Blow 4 would work on him should Fire Boost be unreliable, especially in PvE. The effects could be a bit stronger too, well, 1 point more. I went with 6 since I wasn't to sure if 7 was too much. Maybe it's not. Maybe Luke's Legend's unique refine can be "After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Atk/Spd-7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions, and grants Def/Res+7 to unit and allies within 2 spaces for 1 turn" and be fine.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Kaden

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Some other characters that would like a refine to make them better 

• Sonya: With every new green mage that comes out these day, she gets more and more outclassed. Maybe she can get Mirror Strike 2 as a effect?
• I'm unsure about Xander getting a refine. I know he has difficulties completing against other sword cavalry units. Perhaps his special refine can be Steady Stance 3 to make him even more of a physical wall.
• Arvis/Saias: These days the Fala blood is underwhelming for mages. My idea is for their special refine is to give a bonus to unit's Atk equal to total penalties on foe during combat like Gunnthra. That way their damage output can improve on a debuffing team; plus it fits their personalities
• Halloween Nowi: Maybe for October she can a special refine of Spd Feint to improve her support options
• Also I'm unsure about Camus getting a refine. Maybe Fierce Stance as a special refine to reference in high might of the Gradivus in the series.

Any feedback is appreciated.

I'd rather we just get a new Alvis entirely in the form of Emperor Alvis. Although you're Blizzard suggestion is a good one.

[Jingle Jangle]

Would it be a good idea if Nino could have her flying counterpart's Giga Excalibur? Or she isn't fast enough to use it.

[redlight]

28 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

Would it be a good idea if Nino could have her flying counterpart's Giga Excalibur? Or she isn't fast enough to use it.

She is fast enough to use it. There's a 2 stat difference between their speeds and Gicacalibur grants speed +3. Peganino is most certainly going to proc the 7 extra damage almost every time in PvE content and the current slow-ass armor and dragon meta in arena

Edited September 12, 2018 by silveraura25

[bottlegnomes]

Does anyone else feel like Gae Bolg is kind of already in need of a refinement? Bright Naginata could probably use one too. Both feel like they're kind of outshone by both def refined slaying lance (similar def boost, but all the time, and guaranteed bonfires without being doubled) and especially Sumia's lance that I'm blanking on the name of in the case of BN.

One of my own:

Exalted Gradivus - If unit initiates combat and unit's HP >= 50% unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack. If foe initiates combat, grants Atk/Spd +4.

I feel like their goal with Camus, and a subsequent Zeke or Sirius potentially, was to be a viable mixed phase cav, but what with the BST increase and cavs' already low BST, he doesn't really have the stats to spread around. Mini Bold Fighter lets him guarantee decent damage on PP meaning you can stack DB or something to mitigate his low strength. The HP and no special are just because I can't see IS giving a non-armor, and especially cav something as good as BF and it mimics QR vs VF. On EP, QR covers him as far as doubling, but he's still a bit slow and a bit squishy. Neither stat is outright terrible, but they're low enough that he's liable to get doubled and not tanky enough to take more than a hit or two from strong enemies. Camus and all his incarnations were always a bit speedier than they were tanky, so I figured make him a speed tank, 37 should be decentish for avoiding doubles and the attack is just to up his damage output.

I thought about adding a renewal effect to synergize with the PP effect and be closer to lore, but three effects on one weapon seemed excessive for non-Falchions.

Edited September 17, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Kruggov]

14 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Exalted Gradivus - If unit initiates combat and unit's HP >= 50% unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack. If foe initiates combat, grants Atk/Spd +4.

I take it he does NOT retain Distant Counter?

14 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

I thought about adding a renewal effect to synergize with the PP effect and be closer to lore, but three effects on one weapon seemed excessive for non-Falchions.

Tell it to Summer's Breath - FOUR effects (Dragon effectiveness, Def/Res damage switch vs 2-range, Breath-like special charge and Def +3)

[bottlegnomes]

1 minute ago, Kruggov said:

I take it he does NOT retain Distant Counter?

My head cannon is that this would be a brand new weapon  introduced on Zeke who is the start of the banner and comes with DC. I know that's not going to happen, but it's a dream. But yeah, no DC on the weapon itself.

 

1 hour ago, Kruggov said:

Tell it to Summer's Breath - FOUR effects (Dragon effectiveness, Def/Res damage switch vs 2-range, Breath-like special charge and Def +3)

Wow. Maybe I will just throw Renewal 3 on there.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Kruggov said:

Tell it to Summer's Breath - FOUR effects (Dragon effectiveness, Def/Res damage switch vs 2-range, Breath-like special charge and Def +3)

1 minute ago, bottlegnomes said:

Wow. Maybe I will just throw Renewal 3 on there.

Effective damage is typically considered to be a free effect. For example, all of the refined Falchions, Exalted Falchion, refined Dauntless Lance, Thani, etc. all have two non-free effects on top of effective damage.

Adaptive damage on breath weapons is also considered to be a free effect, similar to debuffs on daggers.

Breath of Fog, for example, has dragon effectiveness, adaptive damage against ranged weapons, Renewal 3, and its refine effect. Cloud Maiougi has dragon effectiveness, dagger debuff, Hardy Bearing 3, and its refine effect.

[bottlegnomes]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Effective damage is typically considered to be a free effect. For example, all of the refined Falchions, Exalted Falchion, refined Dauntless Lance, Thani, etc. all have two non-free effects on top of effective damage.

Adaptive damage on breath weapons is also considered to be a free effect, similar to debuffs on daggers.

Breath of Fog, for example, has dragon effectiveness, adaptive damage against ranged weapons, Renewal 3, and its refine effect. Cloud Maiougi has dragon effectiveness, dagger debuff, Hardy Bearing 3, and its refine effect.

The breath def thing makes sense, even if it is very powerful—seems like that would be with daggers' buffs/debuffs where it's basically packaged with the weapon—but I'm a bit surprised effective damage is considered a free effect. Not that it's overwhelmingly powerful, but based on how effects are distributed to non-prf weapons, I would've thought it'd be the same as say a slaying or wo effect.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

 

8 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

The breath def thing makes sense, even if it is very powerful—seems like that would be with daggers' buffs/debuffs where it's basically packaged with the weapon—but I'm a bit surprised effective damage is considered a free effect. Not that it's overwhelmingly powerful, but based on how effects are distributed to non-prf weapons, I would've thought it'd be the same as say a slaying or wo effect.

I would argue it is one of IS 2 biggest "what the fuck were you thinking" in this game alongside rating Killer effect in the same bracket as Res+3(or any stats +3) tbh. This is what resulted in Berserk Armads(killer effect = Joshua's Res +3. Wrath = Wo Dao. Balance it is not)

 

Admitedly they DO realize Killer weapons are as broken as it is now since day 1 since Killer was 11 MT.

 

Hell even nowadays, LB+ have a total of 4 effect(adaptive, dc, +5 HP and 1 ref stats of choice. And CD penalty) whereas Killer have 3(Killer HP and 1 ref stats of choice). A part of me thinks if LB+ was what the entire weapon types are designed upon, killer is the benchmark for every other weapons

[Ice Dragon]

26 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Hell even nowadays, LB+ have a total of 4 effect(adaptive, dc, +5 HP and 1 ref stats of choice. And CD penalty) whereas Killer have 3(Killer HP and 1 ref stats of choice). A part of me thinks if LB+ was what the entire weapon types are designed upon, killer is the benchmark for every other weapons

I consider the entire refine package of HP and the refine stat to be a single effect. Yes, it makes it a stronger effect than weapons with just a stat boost. No, that doesn't matter because effects were never necessarily equal to each other.

I always consider penalties to be part of another effect indicating that the effect was strong enough to require a penalty to balance it. For example, the entire effect of Fury is one effect, not five.

As such, refined Lightning Breath+ is a total of 2 effects and 1 free effect. Refined Slaying Edge+ is also 2 effects.

[Corrobin]

Cain

• Bull's Blade- Attack/Defense Solo.
• Refine- Threaten Speed/Defense 2.

Abel

• Panther's Pike- -5 Speed. When enemy initiates combat, guaranteed follow-up occurs.
• Refine- Bracing Stance.

 

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Corrobin said:

When enemy initiates combat, guaranteed follow-up occurs.

Is that Brave or Brash Assault? Extra attacks due to the Brave weapon effect are not follow-up attacks, and a guaranteed follow-up attack is worse than the Brave weapon effect.

 

2 hours ago, Corrobin said:

Bracing Stance.

Why would you pick this over the Def refine? This is +4 Def and +4 Res on enemy phase only when the weapon's base effect is active on player phase only, and the Def refine gives +4 Def and +5 HP all the time.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Corrobin]

46 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Is that Brave or Brash Assault? Extra attacks due to the Brave weapon effect are not follow-up attacks, and a guaranteed follow-up attack is worse than the Brave weapon effect.

Brave effect, but on the enemy phase only.

[riccochet]

I would appreciate the original DC sword units get a refine. (only accessible to non-legendary versions, if any)

Ryoma - refined Raijinto grants his legendary version's Bushido as a special refine.

Ike - refined Ragnell accelerates special trigger at default and grants him Guard 3 on special refine

Xander - refined Siegfried grants his personal Chivalry - If number of allies within two spaces (excluding unit) >= number of foes within two spaces of target (excluding target), grants Special cooldown charge +1 to unit and inflicts Special cooldown charge -1 on foe per attack (same as special fighter but with a different condition)

[Tenzen12]

Legendary Ryouma needs refine much more then regular one (either with Iote shield or getting Raven properties at least) though. 

Kaegjarn's Niu: standard efect, - 1 cool down. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Tenzen12