ILikeKirbys Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Hey all, update is out, and the refines are here too. Here they are: Spoiler Tana - Winged PrincessVidofnir | MT 16 | When foe initiates combat and uses Sword, Lance, Axe or Dragonstone, grants DEF/RES +7 during combat. Skill-Refine: If unit is within 2 spaces of an infantry or armored ally, grants ATK/SPD +4 during combat. Innes - Regal StrategicianNidhogg | MT 14 | Effective against flying foes. During combat, boosts unit's Atk/Spd/Def/Res by number of adjacent allies x 2. Skill-Refine: Magic and dragon foes cannot counterattack. Lon'qu - Solitary Blade Solitary Blade | MT 16 | Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). Skill-Refine: Grants ATK/SPD +5. Inflicts DEF/RES -5. To sum up, Tana got Close DEF 3.5 with optional ATK/SPD Infantry/Armor Bond, Innes kept his base effect, stole Deathly Dagger's skill-refine, decided it wasn't good enough and added dragonsweep to the magesweep effect, and Lon'qu got Basilikos: Sword Edition. In my personal opinion, Innes got the most useful refinement, since he can now attack dragons without fear (and this is gonna make him my primary answer to Halloween Myrrh for the next paralogue as soon as I figure out how to build him) on top of being able to tank mages pretty well, Tana got a pretty great refinement (with Close DEF 9.5 and three stacks of Ward Fliers, neutral Tana can reach 56 DEF and 56 RES on Enemy Phase, which should hopefully make her a pretty good mixed anti-melee tank and make her Bonfire/Iceberg/Ignis/Glacies pretty strong) and a skill-refine that's really only useful on mixed teams (I would say go SPD-refine for Flier Emblem!Tana so she gets doubled less, though I dunno much about Flier teams so maybe that's not the best idea), and Lon'qu's refinement wasn't ATK/SPD Solo like I'd hoped, but it still seems pretty good, and I fully expect to see at least one Lon'qu with Life And Death 6 in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovani Bressan Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Lon'qu disappointed me... Innes's refinement is quite useful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colossus86 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Overall i like these refines. Lon'qu gets a damage boost to help him keep up with the rest of his class. Tana gets something to do outside of flyer comps and it has synergy with her native Guidance. Innes gets an interesting niche. He can run something like windsweep with a poison strike seal to be a chip damage specialist. Kindoff akward he has an enemy phase leaning base effect and a player phase refine but what can you do. They haven't been willing to throw out a weapon's base effect unless its totaly outdated (i.e. Alphonse and Celica) and while Owl may be akward at times on him the effect its self isn't obsolete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovani Bressan Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, colossus86 said: Innes gets an interesting niche. He can run something like windsweep with a poison strike seal to be a chip damage specialist. Kindoff akward he has an enemy phase leaning base effect and a player phase refine but what can you do. They haven't been willing to throw out a weapon's base effect unless its totaly outdated (i.e. Alphonse and Celica) and while Owl may be akward at times on him the effect its self isn't obsolete. That's true... a Owl weapon is more efficient during enemy phase, because it's easier to position your units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colossus86 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 This should clear up the Lon'qu thing. Guess we really can't imply anything without knowing the exact Japanese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 51 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said: Lon'qu disappointed me... Innes's refinement is quite useful! Its honestly the reverse Innes weapon is pretty eh Lon qu went from nobody into top 10 Infantry Sword instantly. Dude is basically almost as effective as Karla now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingle Jangle Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Now Lon'qu is back to being one of the fastest units in the game. Tana got a bond skill, and Innes got a sweep effect to dragon and tomes. I believe Lon'qu won this round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWill Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Jingle Jangle said: Now Lon'qu is back to being one of the fastest units in the game. Tana got a bond skill, and Innes got a sweep effect to dragon and tomes. I believe Lon'qu won this round. Lon'qu gets 1 extra attack and speed over Tana at the expense of getting one-shot by almost every character in the entire cast. Lon'qu's more aligned with Mia now, he's still inferior to Ayra, Marth, Karla and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackc2 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, TheWill said: Lon'qu gets 1 extra attack and speed over Tana at the expense of getting one-shot by almost every character in the entire cast. Lon'qu's more aligned with Mia now, he's still inferior to Ayra, Marth, Karla and so on. with everyone equipping their weapons he compares pretty closely to Karla, he has the same physical bulk +1 magic bulk , +4 speed, and -1 atk, karla still has her weapons effect, he has a better offensive spread than ayra (+1 atk, +4 speed) at the cost of 7 defence and no regnal astra, he is still worse than those two because of their unique skills but he is also 3* available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landmaster Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I'm super happy with Lon'qu's refine, L&D is more than beneficial to his powercrept stats~ Now if I could just get one that's anything but -Atk~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWill Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Mackc2 said: with everyone equipping their weapons he compares pretty closely to Karla, he has the same physical bulk +1 magic bulk , +4 speed, and -1 atk, karla still has her weapons effect, he has a better offensive spread than ayra (+1 atk, +4 speed) at the cost of 7 defence and no regnal astra, he is still worse than those two because of their unique skills but he is also 3* available. Of course availability is a great boon for any unit, but from a purely min-maxed discussion it is not relevant. Lon'qu will always be preferred over Karla and Ayra for free to play players simply due to his accessibility. Lon'qu's offensive spread will now be aligned with recent red unit releases which is absolutely great, however missing out on the flat +14 damage from Vassal's Blade, Regnal Astra and Fire Emblem will put him in a huge deficit already, and that's not even considering his defenses. Raven is a better investment than Lon'qu -- even though they function very similar -- since he has absolutely no competition with how few player-phase infantry axe units there are. There's definitely some underestimation on Tana and Innes's refines, but I can understand why. Lon'qu went from virtually unusable to an actually competitive unit, whilst Tana was already usable (although outclassed) in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlight Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JN2PVd55GIVJpxet-YKTb5yOVXmD4VnCJv20nzW6XLQ/edit#gid=476887793 The thing is that you don't really see Karla and Ayra in arena anymore. Not in tier 20 or a bit lower. The best comparison for Lon'qu would be Mia as their weapons are somewhat similar as well as stats Edited October 9, 2018 by silveraura25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Severely disappointed with Innes. An owl tome buff deserves an enemy-phase refine effect. Oh well. A res refine would add more magic bulk where his effect refine won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilda Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 those refines are all meh. Lons one is the best, but i allready have Karel and several other +10 sword users. Especially Innes is very meh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlight Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I don't know what they were smoking when coming up with Nidhogg's refine. It's not bad, but it's one of the most conflictive weapon refinement I've seen. You've got litrowl for enemy phase performance and semi-watersweep for player phase. Lol. Innes's refine powercreeps Jaffar's one. Basically same icon, but Innes's also includes dragons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaden Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, silveraura25 said: Lol. Innes's refine powercreeps Jaffar's one. Basically same icon, but Innes's also includes dragons Can't wait for Death Blow 4 to show up on someone's new weapon and preferably a tome because why not. That said, Nidhogg's unique refinement makes me hopeful that Deirdre and Julia could get a similar effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, silveraura25 said: I don't know what they were smoking when coming up with Nidhogg's refine. It's not bad, but it's one of the most conflictive weapon refinement I've seen. You've got litrowl for enemy phase performance and semi-watersweep for player phase. A single stack of Litrowl is typically procurable on player phase, but the refine does fix one of Innes's actual problems, which is the fact that he absolutely could not deal with dragons on either phase after refines became a thing. Being able to initiate on tomes for free is just icing on the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlight Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said: A single stack of Litrowl is typically procurable on player phase, but the refine does fix one of Innes's actual problems, which is the fact that he absolutely could not deal with dragons on either phase after refines became a thing. Being able to initiate on tomes for free is just icing on the cake. It is good being able to safely attack dragons and magic users, but I'm not really feeling it with the owl effect. It just feels like a weird mish-mash for me. Still, the special refine is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewyn Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I kind of like these refines that add more versatility to unit rather than doubling down on strengths. They could have done a refine that makes his owl effect stronger, or enemy phase in general. However, that is already pretty good, so they boosted his player phase being able to take out mages and dragons safely. Adaptive damage is brutal cause Innes has pitiful defense, his res is already good but still being able to take out mages without incurring any damage is nice. Innes refine is great. Tana refine more doubles down on her weapon effect, but that is cause it was pretty pitiful and outdated. Now she gets extra res when attacked by dragons, helps with that. In addition since she comes with guidance they decided to encourage tactics teams with the +4 atk/+spd when within two spaces of armor or infantry. So in a mixed team she is going to be gettiing +4/+4/+7/+7 enemy phase from her weapon alone, that on top of her already good stat spread. Lon qu refine moves him from forgettable to a good sword infantry unit. I don't know if it really carves out a niche like the other two though. He is still going to trail behind Ayra and Karla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colossus86 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Lewyn said: Lon qu refine moves him from forgettable to a good sword infantry unit. I don't know if it really carves out a niche like the other two though. He is still going to trail behind Ayra and Karla. The only player phase units that really out perform him now are 5 star locked. Being an elite budget option is as good a niche as any Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilda Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: A single stack of Litrowl is typically procurable on player phase, but the refine does fix one of Innes's actual problems, which is the fact that he absolutely could not deal with dragons on either phase after refines became a thing. Being able to initiate on tomes for free is just icing on the cake. sorry but the current weapon refines we are getting are mostly garbage compared to the stuff they are releasing on some units for personal or inheritable weapons. And they are definitly garbage compared to the weapons armors and dragonusers have gotten/been getting lately in combination with their exclusiv skills... nvm the Arena is anyway garbage due to the calculations it has atm so its fine for PVE and for Arena Assaults there are cheaper and better alternative units... which means i dont have to invest in it because PVE content can be cleared with Veronica and the Askrtrio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 @Hilda Well, I'm sorry I don't need everything to be broken to not be garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewyn Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 8 hours ago, colossus86 said: The only player phase units that really out perform him now are 5 star locked. Being an elite budget option is as good a niche as any That's true, should be great for beginners or those who don't have Ayra/Karla. Plus of course for fans of Lon Qu as a character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: @Hilda Well, I'm sorry I don't need everything to be broken to not be garbage. I am a little salty that ranged units are not getting the love they deserve. I propose throwing game balance out the window by releasing armor/dragon effective Sacred Seals, and removing BST, SP, Bonus unit, and Bonus kill scoring criteria. Flying Firesweep healers with armor effective damage would be great. It would also be nice to see Cavalry Boots Sacred Seal. Edited October 10, 2018 by XRay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 20 minutes ago, XRay said: I am a little salty that ranged units are not getting the love they deserve. I propose throwing game balance out the window by releasing armor/dragon effective Sacred Seals, and removing BST, SP, Bonus unit, and Bonus kill scoring criteria. Flying Firesweep healers with armor effective damage would be great. It would also be nice to see Cavalry Boots Sacred Seal. Siege Assault Can't double, double range welcome our lord and savior balanced Reinhardt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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