General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Part of it is space limitations where longer weapon names simply won't fit in the space allotted on the screen. I believe this is why "Firesweep Sword+" and "Firesweep Lance+" were abbreviated to "Firesweep S+" and "Firesweep L+".

The original Japanese doesn't have this issue due to the writing system having more information density, thus allowing Camilla's Axe to be named カミラの艶斧, "Camilla's Bewitching Axe" without running into space limitations.

Didn't even know her axe was called Camilla's Bewitching Axe in the original Japanese. I guess that just shows how much of a no brainer it is to call the weapon Bewitching Axe. My point is the character name part of title is unnecessary when you can just call them something more general that still relates to the character. You are right about the character limitation though (and Bewitching Axe would probably break it, though Bewitching A could work, that would be weird without other Bewitching weapons though), but that's a problem for the localizers more than anything else. Should have just been called Bewitching Axe in the original Japanese, rather than Camilla's Bewitching Axe (huh, I wonder if that were the case what they would have translated it as, might have ended up being Charm Axe or something).

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

17 hours ago, bottlegnomes said:

 

Klein - Regal Bow: 9 Mt, if unit inititatew combat unit attacks consecutively (or whatever brave verbiage is), -5 speed.

Refinement: If unit initiates combat, grants spd+6 during combat.

Maybe introduce it on Louise and have the whole effect from jump.

So legendary brave + darting blow 3. I'm going to point to Olwen as evidence of ranged braves not being intrinsically broken. Klein's strength is okayish, his speed is decent, and his res and def aren't enough to let him do much more than survive a hit. So with this and L&D, he hits 45/40 at neutral with the ability to quad. Okay, maybe that's a bit much, but in my defense, Elincia hits 50/39 with the same setup I wanted to make it actually viable compared to brave and firesweep. The brave effect was to pay homage to his default kit. Darting blow is the same. Theory was to synergize with his native death blow 3. QR, I figured wasn't worth trying to tie in because his bulk is pretty minimal so there's a good chance he's not running it anyway.

Trust me you secretly want it to be a Brave Weapon with 9 MT and Deathblow 3 Refine for a nice balanced 39 ATK Archer 

[bottlegnomes]

7 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Trust me you secretly want it to be a Brave Weapon with 9 MT and Deathblow 3 Refine for a nice balanced 39 ATK Archer 

I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered it 

[colossus86]

SELIPH:Upgrade base effect to Brazen Atk/Res 3

Refine:Infantry Pulse 3

This wouldn't totaly turn Seliph around completely but i honestly don't know what could. It WOULD give Seliph the unique ability to run double Infantry pulse which at least gives him a niche. Also he could potentially run double brazen atk/res to be a potent force against dragons.

ELIWOOD:Upgrade base effect to DB3 (don't think we'll see 300 SP skills on weapons until distant counter refines come through)

Refine:Chill Def 3

Not much to say, just makes Eliwood better at doing Eliwood things. Also adds some ultility to help the squad out.

LUKAS(NEW):Base is simply a 16Mt Slaying Lance

Refine:Skills with "effective against Armor" are effective against this unit. If foe has no skills with "effective against Armor", Inflicts Special Cooldown charge -1 (Does not stack with similar abilities)

This is nod to Lukas promoting into an armor unit for people that haven't played SoV. Helps Lukas stay safe from specials while freeing up his B slot.

DELTHEA:Base effect remains unchanged

Refine:Infantry Rush 3

In my humble opinion there's not much IS could reasonably do here that could out perform a blade tome in terms of pure offense, so we can instead double down or her support role. Infantry Rush is a rare skill and synergizes with Dark Aura's base effect.

SAIZO(NEW):Base is the same as his native smoke dagger but with 14 Mt

Refine:If unit initiates combat and foe uses dragonstone, tomes, or staffs, grants +20 Res during combat.

Allows Saizo to debuff and use his native poison strike while having some hope of not instantly dying to magic.

Edited October 14, 2018 by colossus86

[Mackc2]

30 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

LUKAS(NEW):Base is simply a 16Mt Slaying Lance

Refine:Skills with "effective against Armor" are effective against this unit. If foe has no skills with "effective against Armor", Inflicts Special Cooldown charge -1 (Does not stack with similar abilities)

Making him weak to armour slayers in exchange for guard doesn't seem fair when the recent banner added weapons that do the exact same thing without the armour condition so he should just get full guard without that condition 

[Diovani Bressan]

57 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

LUKAS(NEW):Base is simply a 16Mt Slaying Lance

Refine:Skills with "effective against Armor" are effective against this unit. If foe has no skills with "effective against Armor", Inflicts Special Cooldown charge -1 (Does not stack with similar abilities)

The refine effect concept is interesting, but Guard?Julius's Loptous inflict -6 Atk, so Lukas could inflict -6 Def.

Or...

Give Lukas the same weapon Nephenee has (16Mt Slaying Lance effective agains armored foes) but with a different name (Zofian Lance, for exemple) and instead of +4 Spd/Def, grants +4 Atk/Def if foe initiates combat.

Hm... a 16Mt Slaying Lance effective against armored foes and grants+4 Atk/Def when foe initiates combat... I just made a better version of Bright Naginata...

[colossus86]

33 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

Making him weak to armour slayers in exchange for guard doesn't seem fair when the recent banner added weapons that do the exact same thing without the armour condition so he should just get full guard without that condition 

That's true but those are rare seasonal weapons that also don't have a slaying effect built in. Full guard, at least to me is a bit strong of an effect to have paired with another very strong effect on one weapon.

It's also worth noting that many of the unique effects introduced by seasonal weapons, like duel spurs on the New Years weapons, never made it to permanent pool weapons in any capacity.

I could certainly be wrong, but I'd rather undershoot than overshoot

[Lewyn]

Missed the arena topic, I'll just say say people should be able to use whatever team comp they want without being penalized as long as level 40 and 5 star rarity.  If I want to use 4 cavalry healers I should be able too, with zero penalty.  Okay merges would be a bonus too.  However SP scoring is terrible cause people put unoptimal or even poor skills just to score better.  Right now it forces players so hard towards armors.  Let me put this dual rally skill on even though reposition would be a million times better.  Ah oh wait let me put distant counter in the A slot even though I have a weapon with innate DC.  Arena right now is pretty dumb, at least high tier.  So I don't bother.  Fixing it is pretty hard and complicated though.

 

[colossus86]

8 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

The refine effect concept is interesting, but Guard?Julius's Loptous inflict -6 Atk, so Lukas could inflict -6 Def.

Or...

Give Lukas the same weapon Nephenee has (16Mt Slaying Lance effective agains armored foes) but with a different name (Zofian Lance, for exemple) and instead of +4 Spd/Def, grants +4 Atk/Def if foe initiates combat.

Hm... a 16Mt Slaying Lance effective against armored foes and grants+4 Atk/Def when foe initiates combat... I just made a better version of Bright Naginata...

I'm not sure they'd give Lucas free eff damage. Neph, Clair, and Caeda all have very poor atk for their class and eff damage is meant as a way to situationally circumvent their bad Atk. Lukas doesn't have that issue.

That being said, what you suggested is probably more likely since we know IS isn't above simple re-skins for refines

[Diovani Bressan]

14 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

That being said, what you suggested is probably more likely since we know IS isn't above simple re-skins for refines

IS loves to re-skins for refines. Weapons that have the same refinement:

• Aura and Excalibur; (+5 Atk/Spd when near a mage or healer)
• Nameless Blade and Hauteclere; (Bushido)
• Basilikos and Solitary Blade; (Life and Death 3)
• Wing Sword and Rhomphaia, (Flashing Blade 3)

Not only the refinement:

• Nameless Blade and Hauteclere have the same base effect. (Accelerates Special trigger)
• Basilikos and Solitary Blade have the same base effect.; (Accelerates Special trigger )
• Wing Sword and Rhomphaia have the same base effect., (Effective against armored and cavalry foes)

Edited October 14, 2018 by Diovani Bressan

[bottlegnomes]

58 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

I'm not sure they'd give Lucas free eff damage. Neph, Clair, and Caeda all have very poor atk for their class and eff damage is meant as a way to situationally circumvent their bad Atk. Lukas doesn't have that issue.

That being said, what you suggested is probably more likely since we know IS isn't above simple re-skins for refines

Nephenee's attack isn't great, but it's certainly not Clair/Caeda-level bad.

@Diovani Bressan Speaking of Shiro, he himself isn't too terrible since he's basically a mildly worse Lukas right now, but Bright Naginata is in a pretty bad spot. Reprisal Lance+ hits the exact same marks on EP, but with +5 HP, and 4 def on PP at the cost of a whole 2 damage. It seems like the easiest thing to give him would be built in Steady Breath or something like that. Then he'd be at +4 atk/+8 def and accelerated special cooldown. That said that seems a bit OP, so maybe they'd "switch" it to Fierce Stance + SB/Fierce Breath + Steady Stance for +6/4 or 4/6 and special cooldown acceleration. Or, heck maybe they'd just give it special cooldown with the same bonuses. That special cooldown would help him a decent bit.

[colossus86]

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

Nephenee's attack isn't great, but it's certainly not Clair/Caeda-level bad.

Nephs attack isn't awful in the context of the entire game, but its the lowest of all lance infantry in the permanent pool.

It might also be worth noting that she is very popular and 5 star locked. Part of the value of the refinery from IS's perspective is both to make popular characters who aren't the best units better, and to retroactively justify various units being 5 star locked.

As for Shiro, what they do with him and his banner mates will be intetesting because, correct me if I'm wrong, but they haven't given refines to units with gen 2 bst yet have they?

Edited October 14, 2018 by colossus86

[Kaden]

I wonder who will get not be introduced with, but get a L&D3 lance or even dragonstone, bow, dagger, or tome. Bow, dagger, dragonstones, and tome are a bit easier since they have units with stats similar to Linus, Lon'qu, and Raven. For instance, Gaius is basically a ranged Lon'qu, Gaius's 42/29/36/22/19 to Lon'qu's 45/29/39/22/22, and Tharja is like a ranged Raven, her 39/32/34/23/20 to his 41/34/35/25/22. Dragonstones seem unlikely. Dragonstones only have F!Corrin, Fae, Ninian, and Nowi remaining as old units without personal dragonstones where they're probably going to get something else. I figure F!Corrin might get something that references something Corrin has in Fates more than a random L&D3 breath. The only new dragons without personal dragonstones are Kana and once again, Kana might get something that references what they have in Fates.

Lances could be anyone, but with infantry, they don't have anyone remaining with similar stats to Linus, Lon'qu, and Raven. The only regular lance infantry without a personal lance are Azura (31/33), Donnel (35/29), Lukas (35/22), and Oboro (32/26). Azura's the fastest out of the bunch, but I see her getting a lance version of Skuld and Urdr or a personal Blessed Lance more likely than a L&D lance which while she could use it, she's a refresh unit, so she probably isn't the best user of a weapon like that. Donnel is the closest to Linus where he'd win out in merges, but Linus wins out in raw offenses compared to Donnel with his 37/33 offenses. If you consider seasonals, then there's bride Charlotte (36/32) and summer F!Robin (31/34). Charlotte's high 46 health would work well with a L&D3 lance while F!Robin's low health might get her one-shotted too when you drop her defenses that low leaving her to rely on her 35 neutral health.

[bottlegnomes]

49 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

Nephs attack isn't awful in the context of the entire game, but its the lowest of all lance infantry in the permanent pool.

It might also be worth notinf that she is very popular and 5 star locked. Part of the value of the refinery from IS's perspective is both to make popular characters who aren't the best units better, and to retroactively justify various units being 5 star locked.

Neph was a bit of an odd choice in general IMO. Her stats are fairly decent, with enough speed and def that she can actually be a viable mixed-phase physical unit and enough attack to not be struggling. But more importantly, she comes with one of the most sought-after, if otherwise accessible, weapons in the game—the only source of it without refining—and significantly more importantly, comes with Wrath, one of the best skills in the game. I mean, heck, a wrath, slaying moonbow outdoes Luna up to 50 defense.

 

56 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

As for Shiro, ehat they do with him and his banner mates will be intetesting because, correct me if I'm wrong, but they haven't given refines to units with gen 2 bst yet have they?

I think you're right. They're in a weird spot in general since they sort of have gen 1.5 weapons. They only have one effect, but it's a tier 3 effect. I'd imagine they'll get refinements eventually. Shiro seems much more likely to be soon though, since Bert's weapon is still really good and doesn't even have anything comparable in the inheritable pool.

 

@Kaden I could see an existing cav or flier get something like that. Probably not Cordy or the like, but maybe Catria or Shana. Valter is the only flier in major need of a weapon update, but that seems like it'd kill his whole schtick of being a mixed phase unit with decent attack, speed, and defense, or at least what was his schtick before refinements became a thing. There are a lot of cavs who could work with it too. Oscar, Abel, Peri, and Roderick would all be decent enough candidates. That said, you do have a point in that the existing users are all infantry, though, so I'm not sure if that's happenstance or they want to restrict that type of weapon to infantry, since it seems like armors would hate that.

[Kaden]

32 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Valter is the only flier in major need of a weapon update, but that seems like it'd kill his whole schtick of being a mixed phase unit with decent attack, speed, and defense, or at least what was his schtick before refinements became a thing. There are a lot of cavs who could work with it too. Oscar, Abel, Peri, and Roderick would all be decent enough candidates. That said, you do have a point in that the existing users are all infantry, though, so I'm not sure if that's happenstance or they want to restrict that type of weapon to infantry, since it seems like armors would hate that.

It would be simple for Valter to just end up with a copy of Eldigan's unique refined Mystletainn where he'd have a full Fury 3 effect instead of the partial Fury effect, but only for attack and speed. Alternatively, I could see them go off of Celica's unique refined Ragnarok where Cursed Lance's attack and speed buffs go from Atk/Spd+2 and 4 recoil damage to Atk/Spd+5 and 5 recoil damage. Cursed Lance is in a weird spot where it has two effects, so whatever effect it gains that isn't Fury 3 or whatever increase to its stat boosts and recoil damage will end up being a third effect.

32 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

That said, you do have a point in that the existing users are all infantry, though, so I'm not sure if that's happenstance or they want to restrict that type of weapon to infantry, since it seems like armors would hate that.

I meant more in that lance infantry and dragonstones don't seem to have candidates for a Basilikos/Solitary Blade weapon. So, someone with high offenses like Linus and Raven or who has very high speed, but around average attack like Lon'qu and all with average to high health. That said, there's still a possibility where if and when Brendan is introduced, he could have Basilikos and it not be an alternate version. If Brendan were to end up being a slow, bulky axe infantry, then the speed he gains from unique refined Basilikos wouldn't be that great. It could help like it could help Donnel, but if he has Oboro's speed or worse, Lukas's speed, then it would be wasted on him and he'd just have a glorified Slaying Axe+ where you need dew just to get a stat refine on it.

[bottlegnomes]

2 minutes ago, Kaden said:

It would be simple for Valter to just end up with a copy of Eldigan's unique refined Mystletainn where he'd have a full Fury 3 effect instead of the partial Fury effect, but only for attack and speed. Alternatively, I could see them go off of Celica's unique refined Ragnarok where Cursed Lance's attack and speed buffs go from Atk/Spd+2 and 4 recoil damage to Atk/Spd+5 and 5 recoil damage. Cursed Lance is in a weird spot where it has two effects, so whatever effect it gains that isn't Fury 3 or whatever increase to its stat boosts and recoil damage will end up being a third effect.

I could see Cursed Lance not adding another effect at all and just letting the refinement be an improvement on the fury-lite effect, leaving it with the normal two. One for the killer effect and one for either Fury 3 (identical to vanilla Mystletainn) or Ragnarok (Celica's damage stat boost does only count as one effect). I'm a bit curious to see what they'd do with Valter. He seems like he'd benefit a lot more from a Celica-type boost as that would make him viable as a MP unit with a 45/37/36/34/19 statline, but that seems awfully powerful for someone they have no incentive to drive up the appeal of. Slap fury or L&D on him and that's a rather scary man right there. Regular old fury would boost his bulk a decent bit, up to 37, but doesn't seem like it'd improve him all that much, as it'd only be +1 to attack and speed, which is pretty negligible. I suppose it would him run L&D with still pretty decent bulk for 45/40/39/32/17, or obviously fury 6 with, notably, 40 defense.

 

13 minutes ago, Kaden said:

If Brendan were to end up being a slow, bulky axe infantry, then the speed he gains from unique refined Basilikos wouldn't be that great. It could help like it could help Donnel, but if he has Oboro's speed or worse, Lukas's speed, then it would be wasted on him and he'd just have a glorified Slaying Axe+ where you need dew just to get a stat refine on it.

On the very outside chance he ever gets in, I could actually see them doing that given how little people in general probably care about him. Much as I love Brendan, there are just so many more FE7 villains who'd most likely rank above him for the general populace.

[colossus86]

well since we're closing in on November and version 3.0 i figured I'd throw a few more into the ring.

PALLA(NEW):Base effect is an owl sword.

Refine:Special cooldown count -1 at start of turn 1 for any flyer allies with at least 1 hp fewer than unit.

Palla's non minmaxed statline is one of her primary issues, but with an owl effect, it can be a blessing in disguise. 2 adjacent allies will push Palla to a 35/35/32/30 statline which will at least allow her to hold her ground against some contemporary threats. Currently flyers have their special activation very restricted as they can't run Wrath, Breaths, or any of the cd effecting C skills that currently exist. This refine would give Palla a niche support role which is the best most old, poorly optimized units can hope for.

SETH:Base effect is the same as Camilla's axe, but for Calvary and Infantry

Refine:Suprise it's the same as Camilla's but for Calvary and Infantry.

IS isn't above a simple reskin if they feel like it makes sense, and in this case I feel it does. Similar to Camilla, Seth has a middling statline that leaves him in no man's land as there are better options for both player and enemy phase Sword Cavs at 4 star. Also like Camilla there's nice lore flavor here as Seth looks after the Royal twins (both Infantry who promote into Cavs) and was responsible for training the playable cavs in Sacred Stones (Franz Kyle and Ford).

OGMA:Base is a 16 Mt Sword with Swordbreaker 3

Refine:Sturdy Stance 2

I would imagine that as a former gladiator, veteran mercenary, and arch rival to the infamous Navarre, Ogma has seen his share of duels and this presents him with the unique opportunity to run duel breaker skills. It's also worth noting that a weapon breaker plus Ogma's 34 base Spd will protect him from things like bold fighter Zelgius.

Edited October 24, 2018 by colossus86

[ILikeKirbys]

@colossus86 Gonna go item by item here:

Palla: I like the base effect, Owl-effect is pretty okay, and Flier Pulse on the skill-refine is pretty cool too (I thought it was too good at first, but that's just 'cause I missed the "start of turn 1" part and thought it was every turn, which would've been crazy).

Seth: I quite like the idea. A reskin of Camilla's Axe for Seth is a pretty neat call, giving him an effective 49/52/55 ATK and 32/35/38 SPD and giving not-quite-Goad-Cavalry-but-for-Infantry-too when he's near either Eirika/Ephraim. It's cool.

Ogma: Swordbreaker sword is a cool idea (though I think you could get away with just Swordbreaker Forever instead of limiting it to Swordbreaker 3, since we already have Assassin's Bow with Daggerbreaker Forever so it's not completely without precedent), though Sturdy Stance mildly bugs me since it's not much better than just having a DEF refinement (same DEF boost, but always instead of just Enemy Phase). Still, it's alright, and I like it overall.

And since this thread is back, here's a few that're bouncing around in my head:

Oliver - Admirer of Beauty

Beautiful Tome | 14 MT | When foe initiates combat and uses Bow, Dagger, Magic or Staff, grants DEF/RES +6 during combat.
Skill-Refine: When unit's RES > foe's RES + 5, foe cannot perform a follow-up attack.

Oliver gets the beautiful Blarserpent tome (when will we get the others? Who knows?) with extra MT, and a RES-based Great Flame to live longer. If nothing else, it makes Oliver a better anti-ranged tank since he can run Distant DEF 9 and a RES Wave to have 41 DEF & 52-58 RES.

Marisa - Crimson Flash

Shamshir | 16 MT | Grants +10 damage when Special activates.
Skill-Refine: At the start of each turn, inflicts DEF -7 on the foe with the highest DEF through their next action.

Marisa gets a fairly simple weapon, a 16-MT Wo Dao with Chill DEF 3 on her weapon as well, giving her more damage against high-DEF foes who she might otherwise struggle against.

Berkut - Prideful Prince

Kreimhild | 16 MT | Grants DEF/RES +5 when foe initiates combat.
Skill-Refine: When foe initiates combat and uses Bow, Dagger, Magic or Staff, damage from first attack is reduced by 30%.

Essentially makes Berkut a better tank by giving him Bracing Stance 2.5 (as opposed to the Warding Stance 3.5 on Berkut's Lance+, so he's a bit weaker against mages/staves/dragons but gets better at tanking physical attackers) by default, and letting him get Deflect First Strike Missile/Magic 1 on his weapon to help tank against ranged foes (so he's still not as good at tanking dragons, but he should do a bit better against ranged foes).

Hinata - Wild Samurai

Hinata's Katana | 16 MT | Grants ATK +6 when foe initiates combat.
Skill-Refine: When foe initiates combat and uses Sword, Lance, Axe or Dragonstone, grants DEF/RES +7 during combat.

Hinata gets a sword that plays to his strengths, giving him Fierce Stance 3 on his sword by default and Close DEF 3.5 on the skill-refine. Specializes Hinata pretty heavily into Enemy Phase, but with his SPD he isn't gonna be doing much on Player Phase anyway (and he gets significantly better on EP with this weapon, getting up to 47/50/53 HP | 51/54/57 ATK | 21/24/28 SPD | 40/43/46 DEF | 22/25/28 RES before any other skills, so he could equip Ignis/Warding Breath/Quick Riposte 3/X RES Wave/Close DEF 3 Seal to get up to 46/49/52 DEF & 32/35/38-38/41/44 RES and tank general melee foes reasonably well).

Robin - High Deliver & Robin - Mystery Tactician

Robin's Primer | 14 MT | Effective vs. Cavalry. Grants Weapon Triangle Advantage vs. Colorless units, and inflicts Weapon Triangle Disadvantage against Colorless units.
Skill-Refine: Grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +4 during combat when adjacent to at least one ally.

The Robins get to share a book, and quite a book it is. It combines the effects of both Robins' default tomes (going off the logic that Odin got a better Blarblade and Katarina got a better Raudhrowl, I figure M!Robin would get a better Blarraven, but F!Robin should get a better Gronnwolf since that's what she comes with, so the two can be combined into a single tome fairly well since Nephenee's Dauntless Lance shows that base prfs can have effective damage and another effect), combining Gronnwolf's Cavalry-killing and Blarraven's WTA-vs-Colorless, and can also gain Omni Bond 2 like Chrom & The Lucinas for extra stats (during combat, F!Robin can reach 40 HP | 47 ATK | 33 SPD | 33 DEF | 26 RES, and M!Robin can reach 36/40/43 HP | 43/47/50 ATK | 29/33/36 SPD | 29/33/36 DEF | 23/26/29 RES depending on boons/banes, all before applying other skills). It's simple, maybe a bit too all-over-the-place, but I think it would be fairly effective to make Robin a pretty good mage (you could slap Triangle Adept and a Breaker on Robin and have your Robins murder Red/Colorless (M) or Blue/Colorless (F) cavalry, or you could go Close Counter/Quick Riposte 3/Close or Distant DEF 3 Seal and become a tank mage who benefits fairly well from being next to an ally, and also benefits from WTA over Colorless foes to take a little less damage and deal a little more damage against them (without having to worry about Cancel Affinity like the Triangle Adept set does) and being able to do effective damage against horses).

Azama - Carefree Priest

Hexing Rod | 14 MT | After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts 10 damage on target and foes within 2 spaces and inflicts a status that prevents restoring HP on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions.
Skill-Refine: When foe initiates combat and unit cannot counterattack, inflicts damage to foe after combat equal to [(damage taken by Azama / 2) + 10].

Azama gets probably the best Prf staff, the Hexing Rod, which is a Pain+ that also inflicts a status effect which prevents those afflicted from recovering HP (so the post-combat damage, as well as any damage Azama himself managed to do, is gonna stick a little longer than it otherwise might). He also gets a rather odd skill-refine, which allows Azama to inflict passive damage to foes who prevent him from counterattacking them (either through hitting him in melee range, using Watersweep, or using a Firesweep weapon). If nothing else, this weapon makes Azama the great master of passive damage, and maybe occasionally lets him kill someone with really low RES once he's removed most of their HP through passive damage since he has a not-as-pitiful-as-before 32/35/38 ATK with this weapon equipped.

These are basically my hopes for next month, that the Heroic Feats units are gonna get prf weapons in the 3.0 update which I'm thinking might come next month, and also the Robins and Azama get refinements so Hinata isn't on the New Power banner by himself.

Edited October 23, 2018 by ILikeKirbys

[GreatKnightEcho]

Here are some that I've come up with for lower-tier units.

Tobin: Reliable Blade

Base: Armor effectiveness and Brazen ATK/DEF 3.

Refine Effect: Thokk's Gravity Ploy effect, but for melee units.

Canas: Luna

Base: Resistance +3 and Chill Res 3

Refine Effect: When special triggers, treats foes DEF/RES as -30% (Moonbow).

Sully: Shockstick

Base: Shining Bow effect and Res +3.

Refine Effect: Spd Ploy 3.

Ursula: Bolting

Base : Calvary and Armor Effectiveness.

Refine Effect: Firesweep.

Lissa: Froggy Staff

Base: Dazzling Staff and Gravity.

Refine Effect: After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res -3 on target and foes within 2 spaces.

 

 

[bottlegnomes]

@ILikeKirbys Here's the thing about Berkut's Lance, short of doing something stupid, like bracing stance 5, you can't really make a better lance for tanking. For comparison:

+Def BL: 48/48/22/35/31

That takes 59 physical attack, 55 magical, and 27 speed to ORKO.

Kreimhild: 46/50/22/36/29

That takes 23 * 0.85 spread over two hits, which = 27 damage for 63 physical attack and 56 magical attack. That's of course assuming he does get the +3 HP, which seems reasonable if it is in fact a refine. It's a bit better against range, but he ends up worse against dragons and basically identical to melee physicals. For a lance to really be an improvement to Berkut, it would have to be stupid good.

[colossus86]

@ILikeKirbys

Oliver's weapon raises an interesting balancing question. Great Flame's "Earthsweep" as I've seen it called, was considered a lopsided effect (see my previous post on those if you need clarification) on its release, and we don't have much of a reason to think IS' stance has changed on that. While certainly possible I don't think Great Flame's effect would be paired with another full effect let alone that of a 240 SP skill.

On a Semi related note, while we have seen GHB units get refines for their existing weapons, we have yet to see a limited unit receive a new prf weapon when they did not previously have one. Again there's no reason it can't happen but it should be noted it hasn't happened yet. (RIP Finn)

Additionally, Azama's staff is very out of line balance wise. It has 4 separate effects instead of the standard 2, and we now have 2 prf Staves to show Staffs don't get to play by different rules

@GreatKnightEcho

While stat boosts, like Res +3, might not be the strongest effects around, they still aren't considered free effects so Sully and Canas would have to drop theirs to be in line with current balancing standards.

Bolting having duel effectiveness of all things is curious, as the only prf weapons with eff damage are those who have them in Cannon and some made up ones. Additionally, I find it somewhat doubtful a Firesweep weapon would be paired with anything but a Stat boost as they don't even allow current Firesweep weapons to be refined, and they don't seem comfortable completing the set. (We're still waiting on Axes, Daggers, and Tomes) There are cases like Odin were a unit receives an unprecedented weapon, but Odin was awful, were as Ursala's only real problem is limited availability.

As noted above with Azama, Staves play by the same rules as everyone else, so Lissa would have to drop one of those effects.

[Blazecap2212]

So this is a follow-up to my theory craft.

Tarvos: 16 mt, Effect: +4 def, special refine: steady breath  3or infantry pulse 3

 

Caladbolg:16 mt  -1 cooldown reduction, Special refine: Special spiral 3

 

Lughnasdh: 14 mt, -1 coodown deduction, Special refine: +5 spd

 

[colossus86]

10 hours ago, Blazecap2212 said:

So this is a follow-up to my theory craft.

Tarvos: 16 mt, Effect: +4 def, special refine: steady breath  3or infantry pulse 3

 

Caladbolg:16 mt  -1 cooldown reduction, Special refine: Special spiral 3

 

Lughnasdh: 14 mt, -1 coodown deduction, Special refine: +5 spd

 

Generally when weapons have cannonical stat boosts they conpress them into +3 form regardless of how strong they were in their base games (see like every jugdral weapon as an example). But since the weapons here don't really have any lopsided effects we can probably replace the stats with suitable full effects. 

I'd reccomend replacing the def on Tarvos with a safeguard +7 def on enemy phase. Lughnasdh can probably replace its speed with Darting Blow 3

[Blazecap2212]

10 hours ago, colossus86 said:

I'd reccomend replacing the def on Tarvos with a safeguard +7 def on enemy phase. Lughnasdh can probably replace its speed with Darting Blow 3

 +4 def on tarvos was a brain fart my part, sorry. Also thanks for pointing that out. Although I don't think Darting blow is that impressive at this point in feh and the standards for refines so perhaps  res/spd bond?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I just realized but when was Sealed Falchion released? Its surprisingly one of the "underpowered" weapons in the game

 

- Dragonslayer - this is a half effect/flair

- stats +5 - full effect

Total it have 1.5 effect in the weapon instead of 2.5 or 2 a normal weapon had atm. Mind i dont think its bad - its definitely one of the best weapon around but its kind of funny and showcases just how good Dragonslaying become overtime

 

 

Notable comparison to a much later released Exalted Falchion which have essentially same effect(because double buff is another way to look at SF) but with +3 Speed