Jump to content

General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


Corrobin
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 4.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

6 minutes ago, Etheus said:

It's not a bad weapon, it's just out of meta in the high ranks where mages and staves are replaced by dragons and armor due to the shit BST-based scoring sysyem. 

No, it's suboptimal because Distant Counter is the standard for an optimal build on an enemy-phase unit with passable magic bulk, and being able to counterattack prevents Deflect from being useful against ranged opponents other than Brave Bow, Firesweep Bow, Dire Thunder, and Holsety.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

It's kinda sad that Urvan, a weapon that made a lot of people lose their shit when it was released, is now considered worse than a refined slaying axe.

Shanna makes me wonder if Catria will be getting a refinement anytime soon. They're pretty similar overall, basically just swapping def and res.

Adding on what Ice Dragon said, im somewhat surprised Slayer Weapons is in this position where its both rated exactly as it is(the fucking cancer it is) and underrated because Its lolnotprf

 

On the former its obvious. Name..... some of the best PrF in recent times and you'd realize quickly many of them are Killer AND THEN MORE. And by this i mean PrF that is fundamentally strong regardless of user, since some people are inevitably going to miss the monster that is Excalibur

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, it's suboptimal because Distant Counter is the standard for an optimal build on an enemy-phase unit with passable magic bulk, and being able to counterattack prevents Deflect from being useful against ranged opponents other than Brave Bow, Firesweep Bow, Dire Thunder, and Holsety.

...and units running Desperation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ice Dragon True. That is basically fortress def on steroids for free.

@JSND Alter Dragon Boner Very true. The meta has basically shifted from brave on everyone unless they have a better personal weapon to slaying on eveyone unless they have a better personal weapon, and a lot of those are basically slaying + some additional special-centric effect. It's kinda funny to think that they added slaying weapons because the consensus was that killer weapons were underpowered. Now killers would probably be somewhat balanced instead of the dominant non-prf weapons. You can have accelerated cooldown plus whatever refinement in exchange for 3 might. That seems like a somewhat fair trade off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm seriously hoping Florina's new weapon will actually be useful in her current role. It's nice that the developers are trying new things, but I'd rather get a functional effect than a novel one.

Ideally, she'd get something like Bracing Breath or Special Fighter, though that's mostly just my delusions talking.

 

As for the weapon names in Japanese, Axe of Virility really isn't a stretch at all for the translation.

Shanna's and Florina's weapons are both [character name]の誓槍, which translates as "[character name]'s Oath Lance".

Bartre's weapon is バアトルの豪斧, which translates as "Bartre's [Strong / Hard / Huge / Grand / Manly] Axe". So yeah. Made for the manliest of men.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Bartre's Manly Axe

That would sound hilarious!

Axe of Virility is nice too, but it sounds kind of kinky and Bartre does not strike me as the kinky type.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, XRay said:

That would sound hilarious!

I would personally have gone for "Bartre's Strong Hard Huge Grand Manly Axe", but something tells me it's too much man to fit on one line on the stat screen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

I would personally have gone for "Bartre's Strong Hard Huge Grand Manly Axe", but something tells me it's too much man to fit on one line on the stat screen.

Maybe they can shorten it to B's SHHGM Axe, with the full name in the description.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm seriously hoping Florina's new weapon will actually be useful in her current role. It's nice that the developers are trying new things, but I'd rather get a functional effect than a novel one.

Ideally, she'd get something like Bracing Breath or Special Fighter, though that's mostly just my delusions talking.

 

As for the weapon names in Japanese, Axe of Virility really isn't a stretch at all for the translation.

Shanna's and Florina's weapons are both [character name]の誓槍, which translates as "[character name]'s Oath Lance".

Bartre's weapon is バアトルの豪斧, which translates as "Bartre's [Strong / Hard / Huge / Grand / Manly] Axe". So yeah. Made for the manliest of men.

What exactly is Florina's role? I can't say I've come across many, let alone any that actually accomplish anything

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

What exactly is Florina's role? I can't say I've come across many, let alone any that actually accomplish anything

Mixed tank. She normally runs a refined Slaying Lance+ or Berkut's Lance+ and uses her low Spd to charge up Iceberg or Glacies as her primary source of damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

What exactly is Florina's role? I can't say I've come across many, let alone any that actually accomplish anything

Ice Dragon already answered it, but I figured she'd be a good mixed tank with her high bulk or a magic tank with her high resistance. Florina's has 42/29/27/25/34 with a superboon in speed and defense. Going for +Def, -HP gives her 39 HP and 29/34 defenses if you want to preserve her speed to prevent doubles or something. Otherwise, +Def, -Spd would give her 42 HP and 29/34 defenses. Refined Berkut's Lance would give her 41 resistance when attacked where you can increase it further to 38 when attacking and 45 resistance when attacked with a resistance refine or go for a defense refine for 33/34 defenses and 41 resistance when attacked. An eventual lance version of Safeguard would be pretty good on her too.

It's weird because Florina's fast in Blazing Blade, but she is what she is in Heroes. I'd laugh if her new lance somehow has combines the effects of Safeguard and Berkut's Lance/Barrier Sword to give her Def/Res+7 when attacked. It'd break the rules as it would be Bracing Stance 3.5 where Bracing Stance 2 gives Def/Res+4 when attacked. +Def Florina would have 36/41 defenses when attacked with this stupid thing and that's not counting if it will have an additional effect as Bracing Stance is technically one effect even if it's that extreme.

Edited by Kaden
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Kaden said:

It'd break the rules as it would be Bracing Stance 3.5 where Bracing Stance 2 gives Def/Res+4 when attacked.

Binding Blade has Quick Riposte 5. Sol Katti has Brash Assault 5.5. Assassin's Bow has Daggerbreaker 5.5.

Hoarfrost Knife has Close Armored Blow 10 and Brash Assault 8.

Edited by Ice Dragon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Binding Blade has Quick Riposte 5. Sol Katti has Brash Assault 5.5. Assassin's Bow has Daggerbreaker 5.5.

I know, I'm just saying if it were to happen, then the effects would be stronger than what's normally available and there's nothing wrong with that.

Now I'm wondering when they will ever give someone a personal Wo Dao with Wrath 3 as its additional effect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Kaden said:

I know, I'm just saying if it were to happen, then the effects would be stronger than what's normally available and there's nothing wrong with that.

Now I'm wondering when they will ever give someone a personal Wo Dao with Wrath 3 as its additional effect.

If the unit's bad enough they'll consider it. Odin's Grimmore is objectively better than Thunderhead, but that's because Odin is Garbage and Olwen is not. Felicia is allowed to have adaptive damage with no strings attached only because of her pitiful base 23 atk.

That being said I'm not sure there's a unit offensively inept enough to justify that combo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Letting units survive to activate Desperation is a mistake.

OG Celica running Ragnarok, Brazen Attack Speed and Brazen Attack Res would disagree with you. Thanks to her low HP, she can get there with one Ardent Sacrifice too.

Edited by Jotari
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

Also @Ice Dragon I've noticed some of the "character's name" weapons have other words in their name in the original Japanese that get taken out. Is that the case for literally all of them?

Yes. I think every single one is like that. I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is.

 

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

OG Celica running Ragnarok, Brazen Attack Speed and Brazen Attack Res would disagree with you. Thanks to her low HP, she can get there with one Ardent Sacrifice too.

If she got to use Ardent Sacrifice, then that means you left a teammate alive, which is also a mistake. Leaving enemies alive in general is a terrible mistake with the number of skills that screw you over horribly in that situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

If the unit's bad enough they'll consider it. Odin's Grimoire is objectively better than Thunderhead, but that's because Odin is Garbage and Olwen is not. Felicia is allowed to have adaptive damage with no strings attached only because of her pitiful base 23 atk.

That being said I'm not sure there's a unit offensively inept enough to justify that combo.

Who said they have to be bad? I could totally see them introducing a new character with a Wo Dao, Wrath weapon if they wanted to. And even then, there have been "bad" units being given underwhelming weapons to some and part of me feels like that's because we've been fed the idea of newer things have to be powerful or broken to be remotely decent and that's an awful mindset to be in.

Regardless of who gets it, +20 true damage when activating a special and +30 if they can run Wrath as a melee infantry or armor is disgusting. 30 damage already makes up 3/4 of most of the roster's health. I hope it happens soon so people can be outraged by it. Hopefully it's on a unit with high offenses too. :p

Edited by Kaden
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Who said they have to be bad? I could totally see them introducing a new character with a Wo Dao, Wrath weapon if they wanted to. And even then, there have been "bad" units being given underwhelming weapons to some and part of me feels like that's because we've been fed the idea of newer things have to be powerful or broken to be remotely decent and that's an awful mindset to be in.

Regardless of who gets it, +20 true damage when activating a special and +30 if they can run Wrath as a melee infantry or armor is disgusting. 30 damage already makes up 3/4 of most of the roster's health. I hope it happens soon so people can be outraged by it. Hopefully it's on a unit with high offenses too. :p

Berserk Armads already exists. Killer effect is more reliable than Wo Dao effect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Berserk Armads already exists. Killer effect is more reliable than Wo Dao effect.

It'd be different combination of effects? It wouldn't be reliable, but it would be a different set of effects for whoever has it to work with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yes. I think every single one is like that. I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is.

 

If she got to use Ardent Sacrifice, then that means you left a teammate alive, which is also a mistake. Leaving enemies alive in general is a terrible mistake with the number of skills that screw you over horribly in that situation.

Oh, you're talking from the enemy's perspective. Yeah, the AI typucally wouldn't be smart enough to use a Desperation set up. But it can be really useful for the player. Triple Brazen Celica kills almost everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh, you're talking from the enemy's perspective. Yeah, the AI typucally wouldn't be smart enough to use a Desperation set up. But it can be really useful for the player. Triple Brazen Celica kills almost everything.

Yeah. The original context of the discussion was "what Urvan is good for", and I don't consider "stopping enemies with Desperation" to be one of those things because if an enemy has Desperation active, you screwed up somewhere big time.

 

And even ignoring Desperation, Celica erases Brave Ike regardless.

Edited by Ice Dragon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...