Fabulously Olivier Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Urvan is actually really good with a Shield Pulse build and gives Brave Ike a uniquely strong baiting strength. It's not a bad weapon, it's just out of meta in the high ranks where mages and staves are replaced by dragons and armor due to the shit BST-based scoring sysyem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, Etheus said: It's not a bad weapon, it's just out of meta in the high ranks where mages and staves are replaced by dragons and armor due to the shit BST-based scoring sysyem. No, it's suboptimal because Distant Counter is the standard for an optimal build on an enemy-phase unit with passable magic bulk, and being able to counterattack prevents Deflect from being useful against ranged opponents other than Brave Bow, Firesweep Bow, Dire Thunder, and Holsety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said: It's kinda sad that Urvan, a weapon that made a lot of people lose their shit when it was released, is now considered worse than a refined slaying axe. Shanna makes me wonder if Catria will be getting a refinement anytime soon. They're pretty similar overall, basically just swapping def and res. Adding on what Ice Dragon said, im somewhat surprised Slayer Weapons is in this position where its both rated exactly as it is(the fucking cancer it is) and underrated because Its lolnotprf On the former its obvious. Name..... some of the best PrF in recent times and you'd realize quickly many of them are Killer AND THEN MORE. And by this i mean PrF that is fundamentally strong regardless of user, since some people are inevitably going to miss the monster that is Excalibur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrobin Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 34 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: No, it's suboptimal because Distant Counter is the standard for an optimal build on an enemy-phase unit with passable magic bulk, and being able to counterattack prevents Deflect from being useful against ranged opponents other than Brave Bow, Firesweep Bow, Dire Thunder, and Holsety. ...and units running Desperation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 25 minutes ago, Corrobin said: ...and units running Desperation. Letting units survive to activate Desperation is a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 @Ice Dragon True. That is basically fortress def on steroids for free. @JSND Alter Dragon Boner Very true. The meta has basically shifted from brave on everyone unless they have a better personal weapon to slaying on eveyone unless they have a better personal weapon, and a lot of those are basically slaying + some additional special-centric effect. It's kinda funny to think that they added slaying weapons because the consensus was that killer weapons were underpowered. Now killers would probably be somewhat balanced instead of the dominant non-prf weapons. You can have accelerated cooldown plus whatever refinement in exchange for 3 might. That seems like a somewhat fair trade off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 As an owner of a +10 Shanna (+ATK/-DEF). This weapon refinery update made me smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I'm seriously hoping Florina's new weapon will actually be useful in her current role. It's nice that the developers are trying new things, but I'd rather get a functional effect than a novel one. Ideally, she'd get something like Bracing Breath or Special Fighter, though that's mostly just my delusions talking. As for the weapon names in Japanese, Axe of Virility really isn't a stretch at all for the translation. Shanna's and Florina's weapons are both [character name]の誓槍, which translates as "[character name]'s Oath Lance". Bartre's weapon is バアトルの豪斧, which translates as "Bartre's [Strong / Hard / Huge / Grand / Manly] Axe". So yeah. Made for the manliest of men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Bartre's Manly Axe That would sound hilarious! Axe of Virility is nice too, but it sounds kind of kinky and Bartre does not strike me as the kinky type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, XRay said: That would sound hilarious! I would personally have gone for "Bartre's Strong Hard Huge Grand Manly Axe", but something tells me it's too much man to fit on one line on the stat screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said: I would personally have gone for "Bartre's Strong Hard Huge Grand Manly Axe", but something tells me it's too much man to fit on one line on the stat screen. Maybe they can shorten it to B's SHHGM Axe, with the full name in the description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colossus86 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 51 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: I'm seriously hoping Florina's new weapon will actually be useful in her current role. It's nice that the developers are trying new things, but I'd rather get a functional effect than a novel one. Ideally, she'd get something like Bracing Breath or Special Fighter, though that's mostly just my delusions talking. As for the weapon names in Japanese, Axe of Virility really isn't a stretch at all for the translation. Shanna's and Florina's weapons are both [character name]の誓槍, which translates as "[character name]'s Oath Lance". Bartre's weapon is バアトルの豪斧, which translates as "Bartre's [Strong / Hard / Huge / Grand / Manly] Axe". So yeah. Made for the manliest of men. What exactly is Florina's role? I can't say I've come across many, let alone any that actually accomplish anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, colossus86 said: What exactly is Florina's role? I can't say I've come across many, let alone any that actually accomplish anything Mixed tank. She normally runs a refined Slaying Lance+ or Berkut's Lance+ and uses her low Spd to charge up Iceberg or Glacies as her primary source of damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, colossus86 said: What exactly is Florina's role? I can't say I've come across many, let alone any that actually accomplish anything Ice Dragon already answered it, but I figured she'd be a good mixed tank with her high bulk or a magic tank with her high resistance. Florina's has 42/29/27/25/34 with a superboon in speed and defense. Going for +Def, -HP gives her 39 HP and 29/34 defenses if you want to preserve her speed to prevent doubles or something. Otherwise, +Def, -Spd would give her 42 HP and 29/34 defenses. Refined Berkut's Lance would give her 41 resistance when attacked where you can increase it further to 38 when attacking and 45 resistance when attacked with a resistance refine or go for a defense refine for 33/34 defenses and 41 resistance when attacked. An eventual lance version of Safeguard would be pretty good on her too. It's weird because Florina's fast in Blazing Blade, but she is what she is in Heroes. I'd laugh if her new lance somehow has combines the effects of Safeguard and Berkut's Lance/Barrier Sword to give her Def/Res+7 when attacked. It'd break the rules as it would be Bracing Stance 3.5 where Bracing Stance 2 gives Def/Res+4 when attacked. +Def Florina would have 36/41 defenses when attacked with this stupid thing and that's not counting if it will have an additional effect as Bracing Stance is technically one effect even if it's that extreme. Edited November 3, 2018 by Kaden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Kaden said: It'd break the rules as it would be Bracing Stance 3.5 where Bracing Stance 2 gives Def/Res+4 when attacked. Binding Blade has Quick Riposte 5. Sol Katti has Brash Assault 5.5. Assassin's Bow has Daggerbreaker 5.5. Hoarfrost Knife has Close Armored Blow 10 and Brash Assault 8. Edited November 3, 2018 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Just now, Ice Dragon said: Binding Blade has Quick Riposte 5. Sol Katti has Brash Assault 5.5. Assassin's Bow has Daggerbreaker 5.5. I know, I'm just saying if it were to happen, then the effects would be stronger than what's normally available and there's nothing wrong with that. Now I'm wondering when they will ever give someone a personal Wo Dao with Wrath 3 as its additional effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colossus86 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, Kaden said: I know, I'm just saying if it were to happen, then the effects would be stronger than what's normally available and there's nothing wrong with that. Now I'm wondering when they will ever give someone a personal Wo Dao with Wrath 3 as its additional effect. If the unit's bad enough they'll consider it. Odin's Grimmore is objectively better than Thunderhead, but that's because Odin is Garbage and Olwen is not. Felicia is allowed to have adaptive damage with no strings attached only because of her pitiful base 23 atk. That being said I'm not sure there's a unit offensively inept enough to justify that combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colossus86 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Also @Ice Dragon I've noticed some of the "character's name" weapons have other words in their name in the original Japanese that get taken out. Is that the case for literally all of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: Letting units survive to activate Desperation is a mistake. OG Celica running Ragnarok, Brazen Attack Speed and Brazen Attack Res would disagree with you. Thanks to her low HP, she can get there with one Ardent Sacrifice too. Edited November 3, 2018 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 26 minutes ago, colossus86 said: Also @Ice Dragon I've noticed some of the "character's name" weapons have other words in their name in the original Japanese that get taken out. Is that the case for literally all of them? Yes. I think every single one is like that. I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is. 4 minutes ago, Jotari said: OG Celica running Ragnarok, Brazen Attack Speed and Brazen Attack Res would disagree with you. Thanks to her low HP, she can get there with one Ardent Sacrifice too. If she got to use Ardent Sacrifice, then that means you left a teammate alive, which is also a mistake. Leaving enemies alive in general is a terrible mistake with the number of skills that screw you over horribly in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, colossus86 said: If the unit's bad enough they'll consider it. Odin's Grimoire is objectively better than Thunderhead, but that's because Odin is Garbage and Olwen is not. Felicia is allowed to have adaptive damage with no strings attached only because of her pitiful base 23 atk. That being said I'm not sure there's a unit offensively inept enough to justify that combo. Who said they have to be bad? I could totally see them introducing a new character with a Wo Dao, Wrath weapon if they wanted to. And even then, there have been "bad" units being given underwhelming weapons to some and part of me feels like that's because we've been fed the idea of newer things have to be powerful or broken to be remotely decent and that's an awful mindset to be in. Regardless of who gets it, +20 true damage when activating a special and +30 if they can run Wrath as a melee infantry or armor is disgusting. 30 damage already makes up 3/4 of most of the roster's health. I hope it happens soon so people can be outraged by it. Hopefully it's on a unit with high offenses too. :p Edited November 3, 2018 by Kaden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kaden said: Who said they have to be bad? I could totally see them introducing a new character with a Wo Dao, Wrath weapon if they wanted to. And even then, there have been "bad" units being given underwhelming weapons to some and part of me feels like that's because we've been fed the idea of newer things have to be powerful or broken to be remotely decent and that's an awful mindset to be in. Regardless of who gets it, +20 true damage when activating a special and +30 if they can run Wrath as a melee infantry or armor is disgusting. 30 damage already makes up 3/4 of most of the roster's health. I hope it happens soon so people can be outraged by it. Hopefully it's on a unit with high offenses too. :p Berserk Armads already exists. Killer effect is more reliable than Wo Dao effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaden Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Berserk Armads already exists. Killer effect is more reliable than Wo Dao effect. It'd be different combination of effects? It wouldn't be reliable, but it would be a different set of effects for whoever has it to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said: Yes. I think every single one is like that. I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is. If she got to use Ardent Sacrifice, then that means you left a teammate alive, which is also a mistake. Leaving enemies alive in general is a terrible mistake with the number of skills that screw you over horribly in that situation. Oh, you're talking from the enemy's perspective. Yeah, the AI typucally wouldn't be smart enough to use a Desperation set up. But it can be really useful for the player. Triple Brazen Celica kills almost everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jotari said: Oh, you're talking from the enemy's perspective. Yeah, the AI typucally wouldn't be smart enough to use a Desperation set up. But it can be really useful for the player. Triple Brazen Celica kills almost everything. Yeah. The original context of the discussion was "what Urvan is good for", and I don't consider "stopping enemies with Desperation" to be one of those things because if an enemy has Desperation active, you screwed up somewhere big time. And even ignoring Desperation, Celica erases Brave Ike regardless. Edited November 3, 2018 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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