General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[ILikeKirbys]

19 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I want Scarlet Sword to just be Berserk Armads. Do it.

I hadn't considered this possibility, though it does seem like it would be pretty good for Navarre since he could either run Double Wrath for massive damage on Special activations and Cooldown -2 at turn start or run Single Wrath + Special Spiral to spam Blazing Wind every time he attacks to kill people (with double-Brazen ATK/X for maximum ATK).

I feel like the next Berserk Armads would go to Tailtiu if anyone not named Hector is gonna get it tho, since she's the first unit to ever have Wrath in FE (IIRC) and it probably wouldn't be extremely OP on her.

Edited December 6, 2018 by ILikeKirbys

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, ILikeKirbys said:

run Single Wrath + Special Spiral to spam Blazing Wind every time he attacks to kill people (with double-Brazen ATK/X for maximum ATK).

Special Spiral is better paired with Hauteclere since you only need a total of -3 Special cooldown to spam a 4-charge before-combat Special (since you gain the last point of charge when you hit the opponent) and you don't need to take damage first.

Brazen is pointless for before-combat Specials because in-combat stat boosts don't apply to them (because you aren't in combat yet).

[Diovani Bressan]

I was checking Robin's Skills in Awakening to see if any of them could be the base for his tome. In Awakening, a Grandmaster unit can learn the "Rally Spectrum" skill. Robin could have a refinement similar to Marth's Falchion (Drive Spectrum), or "If a Rally Skill is used by the unit, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res +2 (or +3)  to target ally and allies within 2 spaces of target (excluding unit) for 1 turn."

9 hours ago, ILikeKirbys said:

M!Robin
Tactical Bolt | MT 14 | Grants Advantage vs. Colorless Units. | Skill-Refine: When adjacent to an ally using Sword, Lance, Axe or Dragonstone, grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +3 during combat and unit can counterattack regardless of distance.

I don't believe IS would give Distant Counter Bond to a 3★ unit. It's too easy to trigger the effect. . The +3 to all stats is possible.

9 hours ago, ILikeKirbys said:

F!Robin
Tactical Gale | MT 9 | Inflicts SPD -5. Unit attacks twice when initiating combat. | Skill-Refine: When adjacent to an ally using Sword, Lance, Axe or Dragonstone, grants ATK/SPD/DEF/RES +3 during combat and damage is calculated using lower of foe's DEF or RES.

The same goes for Female Robin. i can see the +3 to all stats or the "Sorcery Blade" Effect, but I don't know about the 2 effects together... Unless the way Robin trigger the effect is different, because it's too easy to trigger a Bond effect.

 

[bottlegnomes]

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I want Scarlet Sword to just be Berserk Armads. Do it.

While they're at it, give him a 3 charge 60% Regnal Astra for maximum nonsense.

[ILikeKirbys]

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Brazen is pointless for before-combat Specials because in-combat stat boosts don't apply to them (because you aren't in combat yet).

I never knew that. Mostly because I don't really have anyone I use AOE skills on. I'm guessing that's also true with stuff like Swift Sparrow and Steady Stance since those are also combat buffs?
I guess Life And Death 3 would work better for that scenario then, since it's not a combat buff?

4 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I was checking Robin's Skills in Awakening to see if any of them could be the base for his tome. In Awakening, a Grandmaster unit can learn the "Rally Spectrum" skill. Robin could have a refinement similar to Marth's Falchion (Drive Spectrum), or "If a Rally Skill is used by the unit, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res +2 (or +3)  to target ally and allies within 2 spaces of target (excluding unit) for 1 turn."

If the Robins got something like that, it'd probably be Drive Spectrum, since neither Robin has a Rally in their base kit. Although, if the Robins do end up with a buffing skill-refine, it'd be nice if they got Spur Spectrum instead to be different from Marth (moreso for M!Robin since he could give DEF +7 with his default kit, which could be pretty neat).

4 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I don't believe IS would give Distant Counter Bond to a 3★ unit. It's too easy to trigger the effect. . The +3 to all stats is possible.

You're probably right, I guess that was just wishful thinking. Omni Bond 2 would be +4 to all stats, but I could see them doing that (I wouldn't be against it either, +4 to everything is pretty good). Plus IntSys doesn't do Close Counter on weapons yet.

4 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

The same goes for Female Robin. i can see the +3 to all stats or the "Sorcery Blade" Effect, but I don't know about the 2 effects together... Unless the way Robin trigger the effect is different, because it's too easy to trigger a Bond effect.

You're right here as well. It'd probably just better as just Sorcery Blade, since that + Brave tome would probably be pretty powerful without the extra stat boosts.

Edited December 6, 2018 by ILikeKirbys

[Silverly]

I got a feeling the refines themselves for the Robins will be Tactics, with the male having defense or attack while the female has speed tactics. 

As for the base weapon, I just hope it isn’t a lame ass 14 mt raventome and/or comes with a bond skill. My personal hope is that it could be an omni-effective weapon (against calvary, armors, and fliers) so it gives them a niche against certain emblems, and since their stats are so lame it shouldn’t be overpowered in their hands.

 

[Ice Dragon]

22 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

I never knew that. Mostly because I don't really have anyone I use AOE skills on. I'm guessing that's also true with stuff like Swift Sparrow and Steady Stance since those are also combat buffs?
I guess Life And Death 3 would work better for that scenario then, since it's not a combat buff?

Yeah. Life and Death is the strongest skill to use for the before-combat Special skills.

With a Blazing skill, you get +11.5/12.5/13.5 damage (depending on weapon triangle) with Life and Death 3 for the combined damage of the Special and the first attack. Death Blow 4 only gives +6.4/8/9.6. Double Brazen Atk/* 3 actually does give more at +11.2/14/16.8, but all of that is in the direct attack itself (meaning more of it can be mitigated by the opponent's in-combat buffs, like Steady Breath), and it doesn't work if you're still at full health (meaning you need to either spend a round of combat with low Atk or you need to step on a Bolt Trap or take other passive damage).

However, if double Brazen is on the table, then so is Life and Death 3 + Attack +3, which comes out to a massive +18.4/20/21.6.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[redlight]

34 minutes ago, Silverly said:

I got a feeling the refines themselves for the Robins will be Tactics, with the male having defense or attack while the female has speed tactics. 

As for the base weapon, I just hope it isn’t a lame ass 14 mt raventome and/or comes with a bond skill. My personal hope is that it could be an omni-effective weapon (against calvary, armors, and fliers) so it gives them a niche against certain emblems, and since their stats are so lame it shouldn’t be overpowered in their hands.

 

I'm personally hoping for a brave tome (because Tactical Gale -> Celica's Gale) with horse effectiveness and bond spectrum for F!Robin, but that might be too insane

Edited December 6, 2018 by silveraura25

[ILikeKirbys]

@Ice Dragon With Life And Death 3, would you consider running Hardy Bearing 3 with it to avoid getting Vantage’d to death after the AOE hit since your defenses with LAD3 are probably low enough that you would get one-shotted if your foe got the first hit? Or is Vantage not common enough to worry about?

Having said that, thank you for this info. The next Sothe I pull will be immediately donated to my Lewyn for maximum AOE pain.

@Silverly You probably won’t see triple-effectiveness on the Robins’ weapons, I can’t see IntSys going beyond dual-effectiveness (though I couldn’t see Distant Counter being given to a Prf weapon via Weapon Refinery, and then Saber happened, so I could be wrong). Might get anti-Cavalry or anti-Cavalry&Armored on F!Robin since anti-Cav’s on her default weapon though. Maybe even anti-Dragon because the Robins can kill Grima in Awakening, though perhaps that’s a bit of a stretch.

@silveraura25 Yeah, all three of those effects are unlikely, though I’d like it if that was what Tactical Gale wound up being. I don’t see Cavalry-effectiveness being on a Brave Tome (or any effectiveness on a Brave weapon, to be honest), so it’d probably have to lose the anti-Cav, but it’d still be really good as a Brave Tome with Omni Bond.

[Ice Dragon]

14 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

With Life And Death 3, would you consider running Hardy Bearing 3 with it to avoid getting Vantage’d to death after the AOE hit since your defenses with LAD3 are probably low enough that you would get one-shotted if your foe got the first hit? Or is Vantage not common enough to worry about?

Having said that, thank you for this info. The next Sothe I pull will be immediately donated to my Lewyn for maximum AOE pain.

It really just depends on how often you see Vantage.

If you know you're likely to run into Vantage, then run Hardy Bearing. If it's a game mode where the skill is rare (like the very top of the Arena) or a mode where you can preview the opponent's skills (PvE modes and Arena Assault) and see that nothing has Vantage, then you can forgo Hardy Bearing for Attack +3.

[Ice Dragon]

Assuming that the refines are the same, all of the Whitewing weapons are the same as their default weapon with Triangle Attack (if there are 2 or more allied fliers within 2 squares, +3 to all stats and, if player phase, guaranteed follow-up) as the refine and both of the Tactician's weapons are Litrraven with Spectrum Tactic 2 (+4 to all stats) as their refine.

I haven't checked Navarre or Ogma yet.

EDIT: Navarre's weapon is Slaying Edge with "Quickened Pulse 2" as the refine.

EDIT 2: Ogma's weapon has Heavy Blade 3 as its base effect, but I can't check its refine because he doesn't have the SP to learn the base weapon skill.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Corrobin]

22 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

EDIT 2: Ogma's weapon has Heavy Blade 3 as its base effect, but I can't check its refine because he doesn't have the SP to learn the base weapon skill.

Can confirm: It's an Attack/Speed bonus when within two spaces of a flier or infantry.

[sirmola]

M!Robin's base effect is just blarraven. The special refine is an everything tactic (like a normal tactic, but +4 to all stats, instead of +6 to one stat.) F! robin's base effect is gronraven (NOT cavalry effectiveness, like you might expect), but i don't have a 5* one to check the refine.

Edited December 11, 2018 by sirmola

[redlight]

Haha. Rip Titania

[bottlegnomes]

Eensy bit disappointed Palla got a gem weapon as the base effect instead of something stupid good, but at least the refinement is pretty sick and gem weapons work pretty well for someone with her rather lackluster statline. Catria is going to be fun too. They're both getting theirs ASAP so they can get +18/18/3/3 from flier buffs and Camilla's Axe. Between flier guidance, flier formation, and just their general movement freedom, it doesn't even seem like positioning will be especially difficult.

Navarre's seems like fun and basically screams give me L&D, an AoE, and special spiral.

Maybe it's my bias toward emblem type teams, but bond skills have always seemed like the least appealing skills to me, so not overly fond of Ogma's refinement, I'm sure it'll serve him well for people who prefer that type of stuff, though.

The Robins' tomes will be nice for support which fits their personality. A part of me kinda wishes Saias had gotten something like that purely for the pun on tactics and how people hype up his ability as a tactician.

[sirmola]

18 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

Haha. Rip Titania

Not really. +6 to 3 stats is much better if you have a way to cover that 4th stat. It is also worth noting that literaly  any non-infantry axe user can give +4/+4/+6/+6 to adjacent allys of their movement type using ardent service, the fortify emblem buff, and the hone speed seal. Dance buffs can also combo with hones and the dance skill seals to buff all 4 stats at once (and can be gotten pretty easily by inhereting silvia's skill onto any dancer). Brave veronica also exists. This skill is still usefull, but thare are a WIDE variety of ways to get at least +4 buffs to every stat using only one unit, whereas +6 buffs are still a little harder to find. TItania is still the only unit i am aware of who can +6 three stats that easily.

Edited December 11, 2018 by sirmola

[redlight]

The winners of this refinery update: Everyone except the Robins (raventome is garbage).

Even Palla with her Ruby Sword is a beast with Triangle Attack. Catria and Est are so powerful. Navarre could do some crazy stuff. Ogma I feel like will be underrated. That Heavy Blade plus atk/spd bond would work wonders

Edited December 11, 2018 by silveraura25

[sirmola]

4 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

The winners of this refinery update: Everyone except the Robins (raventome is garbage).

Even Palla with her Ruby Sword is a beast with Triangle Attack. Catria and Est so powerful. Navarre could do something crazy stuff. Ogma I feel like will be underrated. That Heavy Blade plus atk/spd bond would work wonders

I have to disagree. For some modes, yes, but for things like blessed gardens, squad assault, and the various difficult pve maps, it is great. If you can plan in advance, there are SO many situations where you can ensure only getting attacked by colorless and one other color. My M!robin is actually one with a suboptimal nature that i got as a free summon a while back, but i still get a TON of use out of him, despite not really trying to.

[Ice Dragon]

44 minutes ago, sirmola said:

Not really. +6 to 3 stats is much better if you have a way to cover that 4th stat. It is also worth noting that literaly  any non-infantry axe user can give +4/+4/+6/+6 to adjacent allys of their movement type using ardent service, the fortify emblem buff, and the hone speed seal. Dance buffs can also combo with hones and the dance skill seals to buff all 4 stats at once (and can be gotten pretty easily by inhereting silvia's skill onto any dancer). Brave veronica also exists. This skill is still usefull, but thare are a WIDE variety of ways to get at least +4 buffs to every stat using only one unit, whereas +6 buffs are still a little harder to find. TItania is still the only unit i am aware of who can +6 three stats that easily.

These are pretty much my sentiments. +4 to all stats with the Tactic restriction is not as potent as it used to be with how easy it is to get multiple +6 buffs now.

Since +6 buffs cannot stack with +4, pretty much any stat you're running a standard Tactic skill on is now wasting one of the weapon's stat buffs.

Titania is still the better buffer and can at least actually fight.

[redlight]

But don't you have your slots freed up? Drives, guards, etc.

[sirmola]

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

These are pretty much my sentiments. +4 to all stats with the Tactic restriction is not as potent as it used to be with how easy it is to get multiple +6 buffs now.

Since +6 buffs cannot stack with +4, pretty much any stat you're running a standard Tactic skill on is now wasting one of the weapon's stat buffs.

Titania is still the better buffer and can at least actually fight.

I actualy got a ton of use out of my M!robin, despite the fact that i got his as a free summon with a questionable nature and was never INTENDING to use him. Granted, is is always in pve modes, but still...

Edited December 11, 2018 by sirmola

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, sirmola said:

I actualy got a ton of use out of my M!robin, despite the fact that i got his as a free summon with a questionable nature and was never INTENDING to use him. Granted, is is always in pve modes, but still...

I stopped using Robin around the first week after Skill Inheritance came out when he got his +10 ass handed to him by a Lucina.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I stopped using Robin around the first week after Skill Inheritance came out when he got his +10 ass handed to him by a Lucina.

He still have his butts though?

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

He still have his butts though?

He put them back on after Lucina handed them back to him.

[sirmola]

33 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I stopped using Robin around the first week after Skill Inheritance came out when he got his +10 ass handed to him by a Lucina.

You are right as far as arena goes, but he's still super usefull in PVE when you know exactly what to expect (it helps that his build is super f2p friendly). In fact, raven in general is hands down my favorate way of ranged tanking in pve modes.

Edit: I have Not confimed this myself, but gamepedia says that F! robin's special refine  effect is identical to M!robin's

Edited December 11, 2018 by sirmola