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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


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The problem with both Robins is that they don't get something to help them. The are supportive units now. They don't have a bad weapon... But I expected something better for the base effect.

The Whitewings refinements are pretty good, and they are made for Flying Emblem Teams.

Ogma weapon is quite good. A +Spd Ogma would like it the +4 Spd from the refinements, and he has a high Atk to use Heavy Blade. And Navarre's is good too, and the weapon works perfectly with Special Spiral. IS planned it pretty well, since Lewyn will be at the Hero Fest banner.

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I went and ran some simulations on the Whitewings' new weapons.

They're broke as fuck as long as you can maintain the positioning condition.

 

Est in particular is broke as all get out, managing a clean kill on every single non-green opponent on ArcticSilverFox's current Hard LIst (+10 with +6/6/3/3 buffs) with this build:

+10 Est [+Atk, -Def] (Whitewing Spear [unique], Moonbow, Death Blow 3, Def Ploy 3, Heavy Blade 3) +6/6/0/0

Catria manages a similar feat, but misses 1 Legendary Tiki build and 2 Brave Hector builds with the build

+10 Catria [+Atk, -Res] (Whitewing Lance [unique], Moonbow, Death Blow 3, Attack +3) +6/6/0/0

 

Desperation or Renewal can be run in the B slot for sustain, though you can also go with Wings of Mercy or Flier Formation for easier positioning.

Palla runs the same build as Catria with a bit less success, mostly owing to bulky red units that she can't break through (not like they matter because Est simply flattens them).

 

I'm tempted to make my Whitewings into my first Light-elemental team just for the hell of it.

 

EDIT: I'm an idiot and didn't realize the double attack effect was Brave instead of an automatic follow-up. Which means Catria can also run a Heavy Blade Galeforce build with this setup.

 

EDIT 2: Also, Est's Brave Armorslayer is broken. Really broken.

Edited by Ice Dragon
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I don't think I'll invest for these refinements. Whitewings are good for Flier Emblem, but bad in everything else. Robin also have a decent weapon. Ogma and Navarre - I'm not really sure yet what to think about those.

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Boy, it's been over a month since I last posted (and played) huh? But hey, Palla buffs, I need to know. I'm assuming these Whitewing refines, the second attack is a Brave attack instead of a guaranteed follow-up? And if so, would it be better to go +Atk for the guaranteed damage, or keep +Spd and hope for quads? Think I have +Spd/-Res currently but have my only +Atk one is -Spd.

No rush of course, basically just collecting potential merge fodder with login orbs only. It's ...not a fast process. But happy that I can theoretically ditch my -Atk Elincia finally. Looks like dual-phase might be an option too, not that I play fliers that way, hmm.

 

EDIT: Saw ID's edit.

Edited by Humanoid
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3 hours ago, Garlyle said:

I don't think I'll invest for these refinements. Whitewings are good for Flier Emblem, but bad in everything else. Robin also have a decent weapon. Ogma and Navarre - I'm not really sure yet what to think about those.

Navarre has a really "feels good man" kind of AoE build. Lewyn is available right now at a higher summoning rate so if you're interested I'd suggest foddering one to Navarre for SS. I'm having the time of my life with AoE shenanigans Ogma is pretty good. Heavy blade weapon could potentially be a -2 CD weapon (-1 most of the time) and he gains what is basically mixed phase swift sparrow, which is really really good as it helps him proc his weapon and is more lethal as a result

"Good" for flier emblem is a understatement. They're literally broken. Even Palla is good enough with a trashy gem weapon if she gets that monstrous special refine

Anyways, @eclipse. I remember you liking Ares. Thoughts on Navarre's new toy?

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8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

These are pretty much my sentiments. +4 to all stats with the Tactic restriction is not as potent as it used to be with how easy it is to get multiple +6 buffs now.

Since +6 buffs cannot stack with +4, pretty much any stat you're running a standard Tactic skill on is now wasting one of the weapon's stat buffs.

Titania is still the better buffer and can at least actually fight.

Titania has to sacrifice 3 slots (refine, C, and seal) to achieve a triple buff. Robin only needs a single slot to achieve a quadruple buff, freeing him up to also provide a drive buff to your team and have a flexible seal.

 

I would not call Titania "the better buffer" by any means. I wouldn't call her a worse one either. The three characters simply lend themselves to different mixed comps with different team roles, and that's great. 

Edited by Etheus
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Does the Brave effect on the Whitewing weapons only trigger if Triangle Attack is in effect? Or is it basically a perm Brave effect on a 16 might weapon?

The fact it lists the Triangle Attack effect and Brave Effect separated with a period confuses me... usually there'd be a ", and" if the two were linked, but then why give us such a powerful weapon...?

Edited by Xenomata
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Just now, Xenomata said:

Does the Brave effect on the Whitewing weapons only trigger if Triangle Attack is in effect? Or is it basically a perm Brave effect on a 16 might weapon?

The fact it lists the Triangle Attack effect and Brave Effect separated with a period confuses me...

To trigger the Brave Weapon effect, the Whitewings need to have 2 others flying units in two spaces. Both effects, +3 to all stats and brave effect, need to have the 2 flying units near the user, but the brave effect only triggers when initiating attack.

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4 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

To trigger the Brave Weapon effect, the Whitewings need to have 2 others flying units in two spaces. Both effects, +3 to all stats and brave effect, need to have the 2 flying units near the user, but the brave effect only triggers when initiating attack.

Ah man...

That's still really good though. Est basically gets a 19 might Brave Lance with no speed penalty for being decent at Flier Emblem positioning...

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14 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Ah man...

That's still really good though. Est basically gets a 19 might Brave Lance with no speed penalty for being decent at Flier Emblem positioning...

Don't forget armor effectiveness, and killer for Catria, and curbstomping greens for Palla.

While I am still a wee bit salty that Palla got the worst of the three, it's still really freaking good. This has also made me realize just how strong my dislike of Est is that I'm still hesitant to build her.

Also, just thought, so 2 new power banners? 3? One massive fuck you of a banner?

Edited by bottlegnomes
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20 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Don't forget armor effectiveness, and killer for Catria, and curbstomping greens for Palla.

While I am still a wee bit salty that Palla got the worst of the three, it's still really freaking good. This has also made me realize just how strong my dislike of Est is that I'm still hesitant to build her.

Also, just thought, so 2 new power banners? 3? One massive fuck you of a banner?

Ogma, M!Robin, Palla, Catria, Est a five man banner is larger than usual but not by much 

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3 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

Ogma, M!Robin, Palla, Catria, Est a five man banner is larger than usual but not by much 

Oh right, blanked on GHBs. Even still, I don't think they've done a >4 person banner that's not legendary or boosted rate in over a year.

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3 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Oh right, blanked on GHBs. Even still, I don't think they've done a >4 person banner that's not legendary or boosted rate in over a year.

I wish new power banners had 4* focuses, those were good 

Edited by Mackc2
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4 hours ago, Etheus said:

Titania has to sacrifice 3 slots (refine, C, and seal) to achieve a triple buff. Robin only needs a single slot to achieve a quadruple buff, freeing him up to also provide a drive buff to your team and have a flexible seal.

 

I would not call Titania "the better buffer" by any means. I wouldn't call her a worse one either. The three characters simply lend themselves to different mixed comps with different team roles, and that's great. 

The problem is that a Tactic team would already be running the +6 Tactic skills, meaning a +4 buff is entirely superfluous as teammates' Tactic skills will end up overriding Robin's buffs. Spectrum Tactic 2 is only good if it's the only Tactic skill being run on the team because if it isn't, then it's effectively functionally maybe only 1 or 2 buffs for +4, which is rather mediocre. +4 buffs are simply no longer worth it unless you're running a full infantry comp, which is incompatible with Tactic skills.

I would have rathered the Robins get 2 +6 Tactic buffs on their weapons than get 4 +4 tactic buffs.

 

Though that still leaves the issue that the weapons are incredibly lackluster for combat performance.

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I hope Henry gets a refine. Hopefully something that allows him to maintain his niche as a high defense mage unit but helping him to be more viable. He's one of my favorite units in the game but one I rarely use nowadays, even in PVE content (with some exceptions) because he got left so far behind by the meta. I think that something like Brynhildr's effect on him would be amazing. Alternatively, a raventome with an added daggerbreaker effect would be amazing. It could be paired with close counter and bowbreaker to make him a really great unit. A red Saggittae wouldn't be too bad either. I'm not really sure which would be best for Henry honestly. To better his niche as the colorless destroyer or to try rounding him out a bit more. I think I'd be happy with either, and definitely if the latter gives more of an opportunity to use him. I feel that the former though would be better for the purposes of utility though, especially since Henry could make much better use out of the Brynhildr refined effect than Leo with the difference in defense.

Edited by Arcphoenix
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11 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Anyways, @eclipse. I remember you liking Ares. Thoughts on Navarre's new toy?

IMO Ares is good because of a combination of move type, stats, and weapon.  I'll need to think about Navarre, but at least one of the three issues has been solved!

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5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The problem is that a Tactic team would already be running the +6 Tactic skills, meaning a +4 buff is entirely superfluous as teammates' Tactic skills will end up overriding Robin's buffs. Spectrum Tactic 2 is only good if it's the only Tactic skill being run on the team because if it isn't, then it's effectively functionally maybe only 1 or 2 buffs for +4, which is rather mediocre. +4 buffs are simply no longer worth it unless you're running a full infantry comp, which is incompatible with Tactic skills.

I would have rathered the Robins get 2 +6 Tactic buffs on their weapons than get 4 +4 tactic buffs.

 

Though that still leaves the issue that the weapons are incredibly lackluster for combat performance.

I think Robins tome has alot of utility, but as you said i wouldnt run it with Tactic skill together. However i do believe his Tome gives the Team its running in alot of flexibility because you free up alot of C-skills that can be used for Ploy skills or spurs, his own C-Slot too, while on Titania you lost allready 2 C-Skill slots.

However due to his stat spread and the fact he recieves no buffs from his tomes, he is purely a support unit unless you are facing colorless units, and thats if those units are daggers and bows, because lets face it against dazzling healers like Veronica or Elise he is going down.... that said i wish his tome would have granted him the buffs too so he had more firepower.

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6 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I think Robins tome has alot of utility, but as you said i wouldnt run it with Tactic skill together. However i do believe his Tome gives the Team its running in alot of flexibility because you free up alot of C-skills that can be used for Ploy skills or spurs, his own C-Slot too, while on Titania you lost allready 2 C-Skill slots.

However due to his stat spread and the fact he recieves no buffs from his tomes, he is purely a support unit unless you are facing colorless units, and thats if those units are daggers and bows, because lets face it against dazzling healers like Veronica or Elise he is going down.... that said i wish his tome would have granted him the buffs too so he had more firepower.

The Robins do get to run the 'I'm just a bad, terrible unit' build of TA-3, Raven, Sword-breaker (for M!Robin) Lance-breaker (for F!Robin). It's the type of set I'd run if I were trying to, say, play Aether Raids with only 4* units.

Which says a lot about their stat spread.

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18 hours ago, Arcphoenix said:

I hope Henry gets a refine. Hopefully something that allows him to maintain his niche as a high defense mage unit but helping him to be more viable. He's one of my favorite units in the game but one I rarely use nowadays, even in PVE content (with some exceptions) because he got left so far behind by the meta. I think that something like Brynhildr's effect on him would be amazing. Alternatively, a raventome with an added daggerbreaker effect would be amazing. It could be paired with close counter and daggerbreaker to make him a really great unit. A red Saggittae wouldn't be too bad either. I'm not really sure which would be best for Henry honestly. To better his niche as the colorless destroyer or to try rounding him out a bit more. I think I'd be happy with either, and definitely if the latter gives more of an opportunity to use him. I feel that the former though would be better for the purposes of utility though, especially since Henry could make much better use out of the Brynhildr refined effect than Leo with the difference in defense.

Henry I could see getting something like:

Crow's Tome | MT 14 | Grants WTA vs. Colorless units.
Skill-Refine: When unit's ATK + 5 < foe's ATK, grants DEF/RES +5 and inflicts Special Charge -1 on foe during combat.

It's a Raven tome with Sagittae-style Bracing Stance 2.5 (with Steady Stance 4's Guard effect) to make him a better tank. Yeah, it doesn't make him stronger, but keeping WTA over Colorless lets him get a little more power against Colorless units, and having Guard and Bracing Stance 3 on his weapon allows Henry to run Close Counter | Mystic Boost 3 | X DEF Wave 3 | Quick Riposte 3 Seal to counter all foes, negate adaptive damage (mostly useful against Sorcery Blade and Felicia, but that's not what Mystic Boost is here for) and Wrathful Staff (Henry would probably like not having to take full damage from healers), and recover HP after every combat (it's just 6 HP, but still, it might let him stay inside the Quick Riposte threshold, maybe), give himself +6 DEF on top of the Saggitae-type effect (a total of 40/43/46 DEF when DEF Wave is up, and he'll have 27/30/34 RES too which is nice). Alternatively, you could run Distant DEF 3 | Mystic Boost 3 | X RES Wave 3 | Quick Riposte 3 Seal to get great defenses against ranged foes (40/43/46 DEF & 33/36/40 [39/42/46 with RES Wave up] RES) and the benefits of Mystic Boost (mostly Wrathful Staff negation here, though the passive recovery could also be nice to have). I'm pretty sure this wouldn't be too powerful on Henry, since he still has minimal ATK and SPD and isn't getting any way around those flaws from this weapon so he still relies on his Special for damage and Quick Riposte to double, he just gets to be a bit better at tanking while retaining his WTA over Colorless foes.

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I really wish the characters that actually do well with Litrowl actually get Litrowl as their base effect or refine effect. I'm really, really disappointed that Katarina and Soren got Litrowl on their unique weapons, but the Robins didn't.

And I now have zero hope that they'll actually give Sophia or Henry a Litrowl or Litrowl-like effect on their unique weapons.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I really wish the characters that actually do well with Litrowl actually get Litrowl as their base effect or refine effect. I'm really, really disappointed that Katarina and Soren got Litrowl on their unique weapons, but the Robins didn't.

And I now have zero hope that they'll actually give Sophia or Henry a Litrowl or Litrowl-like effect on their unique weapons.

Sophia might as Fenrir is a silver weapon and you can't make a silver weapon unrefined a prf. But Henry, yeah. He's getting a prf raventome?

IS doesn't understand it's players. Surely enough they should have data for which weapon is popular on units and how it works out for them. Funnily enough they still think raventomes are good despite players abandoning ship on the weapon

Anyone remembers Nephenee's Dauntless Lance being a tad bit too powerful unrefined? I understand that she's 5* exclusive, but there really shouldn't be anything to have her weapon do more than other heroes' weapons

Edited by silveraura25
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2 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

IS doesn't understand it's players.

It's not that they don't understand their players; that's largely irrelevant to making weapons for characters. They don't understand their characters, how to build them, and how to make them relevant, specifically the ones that aren't big in the meta.

 

5 minutes ago, silveraura25 said:

Anyone remembers Nephenee's Dauntless Lance being a tad bit too powerful unrefined? I understand that she's 5* exclusive, but there really shouldn't be anything to have her weapon do more than other heroes' weapons

Weaker characters deserve to have stronger weapons to compensate for their weaker stat spreads. (Note that that doesn't mean strong units should or shouldn't have strong weapons, just that weaker units are absolutely deserving of having above-par weapons.)

Nephenee was fast, but weak, and was effectively a weaker version of Brave Lucina.

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