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General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread


Corrobin
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44 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

The problem with any new weapon for Berkut is that odds are it wouldn't be significantly better than his lance. With the def refinement he's got 48/48/22/35/24 (+7 on EP). Bracing stance + DC would give him 46/50/22/31(+4)/24(+4), which at that point he'd just be better off running DC in his A slot were he able to get it.

With the Divine Tyrfing type refinement, it's essentially the same as distributing 25% over both hits so he'd have 46/50/22/31/24(+4). That means he's less physically bulky and takes 59 magic attack to 2HKO vs 55 for def refined BL and 59 for res refined. Granted the special acceleration would make up for a lot.

In Echoes, Kriemhild grants Def/Res+5.

What if Berkut's new weapon has the same base effect (+7 Res when foe initiates combat), and the refinement grants +7 Def if foe initiates combat?

Edit:

@Etheus Eliwood cannot use Sturdy Impact. This skill cannot be used by Cavalry, Armored and Staff units. But Eliwoods still can explode enemies with Death Blow 3 (or 4), Atk/Def Solo or Atk/Spd Solo on his A-slot. Heavy Blade Seal could also help him.

Spoiler

According to the datamine, we will get Darting Blow Seal. He can use for the +10 Spd.

 

Edited by Diovani Bressan
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Man when I first started reading Amelia's refine I let myself get overhyped since it has the same trigger as Garm. Yeah she is decently fast, but her speed isn't what it used to be. Garm + Special fighter would be pretty fun on someone with enough speed to deny at least some doubles. Plus that would let her punch through Wary. But +5 SPD/DEF certainly isn't terrible, even if the 200 dew feels a bit steep for that effect. But it is a clear upgrade from Slaying Axe. So yay! Plus a personal weapon should bump her arena score up to the next threshold.

Spd Tactic is kinda tough to come by so Seth has a nice refine in my opinion. Of course it does mean that he is a bit more limited in team choice than Titania since jut about everyone could want some more res to deal with dragons.

Obviously refinable Blade Tomes are bonkers. I think Tharja got the better deal since it lets her double other speedy units more easily. Not quite as important in Arena, but I could see it making a difference in some Abyssal content. I tend to run lots of tactics so Nino's special refine is a bit less special in my book. Nice to make her self sufficient though.

Niles' refine sounds neat, but I don't use him much so I can't say just how big it'll be.

Oboro getting a situational 6 DEF/RES is nice and all, but can she really use it well?

Hinata and Eliwood basically get a boost to what they already wanted. Not bad. But not enough to make me spend the dew.


I would say Dew wise the Blades are probably the most likely to draw people that weren't already using the unit. Seth might be a close second since easy spd tactic access could be appealing to a certain subset of players. The rest mostly seem to be nice boosts for folks who use said units rather than making them popular overall.

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28 minutes ago, Etheus said:

They should give Gerome access to Cherche's axe. He's got the stat line for it, it would be a huge buff, and it fits his character. He already inherited her mount, so why not also her axe?

I do like this idea.

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Oh! Now I noticed it! Tharja inflicts -4 Spd on foe during combat, in all combats... Basically, if Tharja has 1 more Spd than foe, she will double the foe! She is very similar to Ylgr.

Example: Tharja has 34 Spd and enters in a combat against OG Soren, who has 33 Spd. Once in combat, Soren is inflicted by Tharja's Hex and has -4 Spd, so Soren ends with 29 Spd, 5 less speed than Tharja. Tharja doubles any foe with 1 speed less than her!

Edited by Diovani Bressan
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4 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Oh! Now I noticed it! Tharja inflicts -4 Spd on foe during combat, in all combats... Basically, if Tharja has 1 more Spd than foe, she will double the foe! She is very similar to Ylgr.

Example: Tharja has 34 Spd and enters in a combat against OG Soren, who has 33 Spd. Once in combat, Soren is inflicted by Tharja's Hex and has -4 Spd, so Soren ends with 29 Spd, 5 less speed than Tharja. Tharja doubles any foe with 1 speed less than her!

The wording of the text also makes it sound like she debuffs foes during combat against her allies if Tharja is within 2 spaces of the foe.

 

Eg: Tharja is within 2 spaces of foe while foe is in combat with allied Robin. Will the foe be debuffed in combat against the allied Robin?

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44 minutes ago, Etheus said:

The wording of the text also makes it sound like she debuffs foes during combat against her allies if Tharja is within 2 spaces of the foe.

Eg: Tharja is within 2 spaces of foe while foe is in combat with allied Robin. Will the foe be debuffed in combat against the allied Robin?

Like @Ice Dragon said before, yes... Tharja's Hex affect allies combats too.

Here... I made this video showing a combat between Ike (31 Spd) Vs. Eliwwod (27 Spd):

You can notice that not only Ike can double when adjacent to Tharja, but also Eliwood's damage decrease from 11 to 7.

I forgot to show on the video, but Ike and Tharja doesn't have ally support.

Edited by Diovani Bressan
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1 minute ago, Etheus said:

So what is the opinion on Niles now? Is this substantially overpowered weapon of his enough to make him viable (at least comparable to Innes) or is his statline just too weak to fix?

It works for Niles. It’s just the Shining effect is a little weak.

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21 minutes ago, Etheus said:

So what is the opinion on Niles now? Is this substantially overpowered weapon of his enough to make him viable (at least comparable to Innes) or is his statline just too weak to fix?

He's good if you can safely activate Desperation, but he has the annoying fact that he can't use Ardent Sacrifice for it unless he's +7 or lower (lower still if he has flowers).

This build (with +6 to all stats) kills pretty much everything except for bulky things, things with Dull Ranged, and things with too much Spd to double

+10 Niles [+Spd]
Niles's Bow [unique]
Iceberg
Brazen Atk/Spd 3
Desperation 3
Spd Ploy 3
Brazen Atk/Res 3

but requires him to have lost 11 HP first to activate Desperation.

Fury 3 is a bit less effective than Brazen Atk/Spd 3, but still good, and helps get Desperation up.

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Amelia is the only one I'm doing.  I have Nino and Tharja built but haven't used them in a long time have better options for those move/weapon types.  Amelia, while I have a lot of green armors she is nice in that she is a speedy green armor.  I'll do it, but I don't know when I will be able to give her Special fighter and Distant counter, she is expensive to build unfortunately.  Though when fully built and with this refine she should have a good niche and stand shoulder to shoulder with many of her powerful green armor contemporaries.  

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Okay, I'm going to get one of my spare Eliwoods built. What should I put in his A slot, assuming I'm using his unique refine: Another Death Blow, another Swift Sparrow, or Darting Blow?

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51 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Okay, I'm going to get one of my spare Eliwoods built. What should I put in his A slot, assuming I'm using his unique refine: Another Death Blow, another Swift Sparrow, or Darting Blow?

Sturdy Impact works, too.

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1 hour ago, bottlegnomes said:

@Corrobin Fury is another decent option. Only slightly worse than SS and helps him get to desperation range. That's what I'm planning on until I can get some SS fodder and then will probably alternate as necessary.

It's debateable whether it would even be worse than SS. It works with Eliwood's rounded stats, helps his somewhat lacking physical bulk, and helps him Ploy (which Eliwood naturally excels at).

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12 hours ago, Corrobin said:

Okay, I'm going to get one of my spare Eliwoods built. What should I put in his A slot, assuming I'm using his unique refine: Another Death Blow, another Swift Sparrow, or Darting Blow?

Heavy Blade would be my suggestion for Eliwood with his shiny new Durandal, since (spoilers for the next Tempest Trials+)

Spoiler

we're getting Darting Blow 3 as a Sacred Seal, so Eliwood can have +10 ATK/SPD and you can give the Heavy Blade Seal to someone else.

Although if you don't wanna use A-Slot Heavy Blade or just don't have anyone else who would want Heavy Blade Seal thus negating the reason to put it in Eliwood's A-Slot or just don't wanna throw 20,000 feathers at Jamke to get Heavy Blade 3 fodder, then Swift Sparrow 2 with Darting Blow 3 Seal would put Eliwood at 44 SPD, which becomes 50 with Hone Cavalry / SPD Tactic 3 / Rally ATK/SPD+ / Rally SPD/DEF+, so he might be capable of doubling reliably, especially if you have some form of SPD-debuffing (for example, SPD Ploy 3, or an ally with Chill SPD 3, or an ally with SPD Feint 3 if you're buffing his SPD with a Rally).

 

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