General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[XRay]

10 hours ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

Not every team runs full field buffs.

I think a good portion of the top competitive teams have VS!Azura (the vast majority of players I see have VS!Azura in Aether Raids), so full field buffs are quite common and easily achievable. Some players take it a step further to upgrade her full field buffs (6/6/6/6) to max buffs (7/7/7/7) using Hone Attack 4.

[Diovani Bressan]

2 hours ago, colossus86 said:

Am I the only one who really likes Robin's refines?

I like Robin's Tactic Tomes too. I like to use Male Robin on my TT team or with Laevatein.

I hope to get B Duel Infantry someday, so I will give it to my Male Robin and use him on my Arena Team. I could use it with Female Robin, since we already have G Duel Infantry, but I prefer to use my Grails on a different hero.

 

[colossus86]

6 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

They're not bad, I'd rate them around 7/10 or 8/10, which is plenty usable.

 

The problem is that there are 10/10 supports out there (Legendary Azura, Eir, etc.), meaning you're never bringing Robin for their support, so you're just going to treat the Prf as a higher stat -raven tome.

Yeah i guess its partially about expectation. I always saw the Robins as irreparably garbage so being able to do anything somewhat well was all I wanted. I even really liked Seliph's refine for all the cheezy garbage it can get up to.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, colossus86 said:

Yeah i guess its partially about expectation. I always saw the Robins as irreparably garbage so being able to do anything somewhat well was all I wanted. I even really liked Seliph's refine for all the cheezy garbage it can get up to.

The Robins were half-decent Litrowl users with their half-decent defenses, and then they decided to give them the garbage Litrraven effect as the weapons' base effect and an obsolete support effect as the refine that was made even more obsolete by Legendary Azura's release.

 

17 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Everyone knows that Robin's Prf effect is just +3 Atk, +2 Hp, +3 Res.

You mean Atk -1, Spd -4, Def -4, and Res -4. Tactical Bolt is flat-out trash compared to Blarowl.

[Corrobin]

Question: why do you say Littraven and Litrowl? What does that prefix "Lit" mean?

[Ice Dragon]

20 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Question: why do you say Littraven and Litrowl? What does that prefix "Lit" mean?

Raudhr = red in Old Norse. Blar = blue in Old Norse. Gronn = green in Old Norse. Litr = color in Old Norse.

[Corrobin]

Oh, I see. That make sense. I just think it would be faster to just say "Raven" or "Owl" or "Blade" or "Serpent".

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Oh, I see. That make sense. I just think it would be faster to just say "Raven" or "Owl" or "Blade" or "Serpent".

"Litrraven" is two characters shorter than "raven tomes", which is what I'd otherwise be typing.

[Corrobin]

No, not "Raven tomes", or "Blade tomes" or "Owl tomes", just "Raven", or "Owl", or "Blade".

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Corrobin said:

No, not "Raven tomes", or "Blade tomes" or "Owl tomes", just "Raven", or "Owl", or "Blade".

"Which is what I would otherwise be typing" because I prefer to be verbose for the sake of clarity. Same reason I always type out alt names like "Legendary Azura" or "Helpful Chrom" or "male Grima" instead of using abbreviations.

[Corrobin]

Alright, fine, fair. Let's agree to disagree.

Anyway, I actually like that Peri idea? Because it references her personal Skill in Fates and I always like that kind of thing?

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Corrobin said:

Alright, fine, fair. Let's agree to disagree.

There was something to agree about in the first place? I was simply explaining my rationale for why I type how I type.

 

2 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Anyway, I actually like that Peri idea? Because it references her personal Skill in Fates and I always like that kind of thing?

Useless weapon effects are still useless, no matter how pretty they are.

Doesn't help that I think personal skills were a dumb idea and that the mechanics of Fates are just unnecessarily complex. Tellius had the best game system.

[bottlegnomes]

45 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Tellius had the best game system.

Ledges in FEH when?

[Ice Dragon]

10 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

Ledges in FEH when?

Trees are almost the same thing.

[XRay]

With Niles having two effects on his base exclusive Weapon, I want to cram even more effects into a Weapon. I think it is about time Olivia, my MVP Dancer, power creep VS!Azura.

Olivia/Azura/Ninian/Lene/Silvia

Spoiler

Olivia's/Lene's/Silvia's Sword / Azura's Lance / Ninian's Breath:
If the number of allies within 2 spaces ≥ 1; at start of turn, grants Atk+7 to allies within 2 spaces for 1 turn; and grants bonus to allies' Atk/Spd/Def/Res = highest bonus on ally for 1 turn. (Example: if target has a +6 bonus to Atk, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+6.)*
If the number of allies within 2 spaces ≥ 1; at start of turn, grants movement+1 to allies within 2 spaces for 1 turn; and neutralizes allies' penalties (from skills like Panic, Threaten, etc.) and negative status effects (preventing counterattacks, restricting movement, etc.) that last through allies' next action.**

Refinement:
If the number of foes on map ≥ 4 on turn 1; unit's movement becomes flier movement; and unit can move one extra space.***

*A straight up Atk/Spd/Def/Res+7 would probably be considered four effects, but incorporating Prayer Wheel's effect with Hone Atk 4, means it is technically only 2 effects!
**Every unit is a cavalry unit, and cavalry units are super cavalry units. (Except armor units, who are now just infantry units)
***Flying PONY Dancers for everyone, and everyone gets TWO from Hero Battles! Everyone should now have a good Aether Raids defense team.

 

 

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Doesn't help that I think personal skills were a dumb idea and that the mechanics of Fates are just unnecessarily complex.

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Tellius had the best game system.

But there is beauty in complexity. I like the complexity in Fates, although it did feel a little awkward to include the bows, daggers, and tomes into the regular Weapon triangle. And personal skills are a nice touch to make characters feel special.

It would be nice to incorporate Tellius's magic triangle into Fate's triangle, as well Heroes' colored dagger and bow triangles, so there are triangles at each corner of the bigger weapon triangle. Since magic got the anima triangle inside it, it would be nice to give bows and daggers the light/dark/anima triangles too so they are not left out.

Sword/Colorless Tome/(Light>Dark>[R. Tome>G. Tome>B. Tome]>Light)
>
Axe/Colorless Bows/(Light>Dark>[R. Bow>G. Bow>B. Bow>R. Bow]>Light)
>
Lance/Colorless Daggers/(Light>Dark>[R. Dagger>G. Dagger>B. Dagger>R. Dagger]>Light)
>
Sword/Colorless Tome/(Light>Dark>[R. Tome>G. Tome>B. Tome]>Light)

And for more complexity, it would be nice to have the anima weapons interact differently to its melee weapon counterpart depending on the anima color, so green tomes would be weak to swords, blue tome would be strong against swords, and red tomes normal to swords. Anima weapons' color also help determine how effective other melee weapons are against it, so red tomes would be super effective against axes and super weak to lances, while green tomes are just regular effective against axes but its green color cancels out its weakness to lances, and blue tomes are regularly weak to lances but its blue color cancels out its strength against axes.

[ILikeKirbys]

@XRay I’m not sure if IntSys always considers Special Cooldown -1 as an effect though, if only because they also gave it to Odin’s Grimoire/Iris’s Tome/Tharja’s Hex (in the form of no Cooldown penalty) and Dauntless Lance (where it comes alongside anti-Armored effective damage).

And regarding Peri, if she got something like a 16-MT Slaying Lance that could be refined to have SPD/DEF Smoke 2, would that be a good enough weapon for her while still referencing her personal skill from Fates, or would it end up being a useless effect?

[Ice Dragon]

12 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

I’m not sure if IntSys always considers Special Cooldown -1 as an effect though, if only because they also gave it to Odin’s Grimoire/Iris’s Tome/Tharja’s Hex (in the form of no Cooldown penalty) and Dauntless Lance (where it comes alongside anti-Armored effective damage).

As evidenced by all Litrblade-type weapons released after launch (Blizzard, Thunderhead, Odin's Grimoire, Iris's Tome, Tharja's Hex, Laevatein), it appears that the Litrblade effect itself without the Special cooldown penalty is considered to be a single effect instead of two effects.

As for Dauntless Lance's case, effective damage has always been a free effect. Take a look at Falchion, Thani, Splashy Bucket, etc.

 

12 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

And regarding Peri, if she got something like a 16-MT Slaying Lance that could be refined to have SPD/DEF Smoke 2, would that be a good enough weapon for her while still referencing her personal skill from Fates, or would it end up being a useless effect?

Smoke skills are good for player-phase units, even if I'm not personally a fan of them.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[colossus86]

Just a couple of Ideas I had:

SELENA- Nohrian Estoc

Base effect: Eff Armor (Free), Wo Dao Effect

Refine: If Ally (Including unit) activates special before, during, or after combat, grants unit special CD Count -1

ARTHUR- Hero Axe

Base effect: Inflicts Atk/Spd -4 on foes within 2 spaces at the start of combat

Refine: Atk/Def Link 3

Wanted to come up with something interesting for Selena, and I Think it could have some fun applications for something like AR defense. Arthur's is just leaning into is whole Hero of Justice thing and making him an interesting support unit.

[Troykv]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

As for Dauntless Lance's case, effective damage has always been a free effect. Take a look at Falchion, Thani, Splashy Bucket, etc.

But what about the Oboro's, Est's and Florina's Spears?

[bottlegnomes]

15 minutes ago, Troykv said:

But what about the Oboro's, Est's and Florina's Spears?

Having a free effect doesn't necessarily mean they'll have a second non-free effect. For example, Caeda and Claire in addition to the two you mentioned. They just can't generally exceed 2 non-free effect.

 

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Trees are almost the same thing.

Ledge = Tree + def tile + armored move penalty 'cause without boots they're too fat. Let the world burn.

[DehNutCase]

11 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

You mean Atk -1, Spd -4, Def -4, and Res -4. Tactical Bolt is flat-out trash compared to Blarowl.

Enemy positioning could make it so that any way you position your units for Spur would get your back-line sniped, while Drive positioning is usually pretty safe from that unless your front-line crumbles. (Which should only happen if you were too lazy to do combat math---which I definitely am, these days.)

Also, why use the Atk refine? Atk is valuable, sure, but it's not 3 def or 3 res levels of valuable. Edit: Oh nvm, you're comparing -owl to a 13 MT tome. I was speaking of 14 MT (Prf MT), and then 2 hp + 3 res from the stat refine.

 

Of course, the Robins aren't exactly high picks for harder game modes (since Leo/Rein/Spring!Camilla kind of exist), but I kind of feel like either you're bringing them into maps where you don't need your A-team, in which case you don't need owl, or you're bringing them into maps where you do need your A-team, in which case the Robins aren't going to cut it anyway.

Edited February 13, 2019 by DehNutCase

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Enemy positioning could make it so that any way you position your units for Spur would get your back-line sniped, while Drive positioning is usually pretty safe from that unless your front-line crumbles. (Which should only happen if you were too lazy to do combat math---which I definitely am, these days.)

Because game modes where I have the luxury to use less competitive units (PvE and Arena Assault) typically don't have dancers to screw things up.

 

5 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Also, why use the Atk refine? Atk is valuable, sure, but it's not 3 def or 3 res levels of valuable.

Tactical Bolt [Res] is 2 HP, 14 Atk, and 3 Res.

Blarowl+ [Res] with 2 adjacent allies is 2 HP, 15 Atk, 4 Spd, 4 Def, and 7 Res.

That makes Tactical Bolt -1 Atk, -4 Spd, -4 Def, and -4 Res relative to Blarowl+. Blarowl+ is one of the weapons that gains base Mt after its refine (from 10 to 11).

Granted, I'd rather take the Def refine, but I decided to use the same refine that you used for a more direct comparison.

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Tactical Bolt [Res] is 2 HP, 14 Atk, and 3 Res.

Blarowl+ [Res] with 2 adjacent allies is 2 HP, 15 Atk, 4 Spd, 4 Def, and 7 Res.

That makes Tactical Bolt -1 Atk, -4 Spd, -4 Def, and -4 Res relative to Blarowl+. Blarowl+ is one of the weapons that gains base Mt after its refine (from 10 to 11).

Granted, I'd rather take the Def refine, but I decided to use the same refine that you used for a more direct comparison.

Derp, forgot Owls can be refined. I remembered ravens couldn't but I forgot about owls since I never use them, -blade is just too good of a generic.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

13 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

As evidenced by all Litrblade-type weapons released after launch (Blizzard, Thunderhead, Odin's Grimoire, Iris's Tome, Tharja's Hex, Laevatein), it appears that the Litrblade effect itself without the Special cooldown penalty is considered to be a single effect instead of two effects.

Blizzard increases Gunnthrá’s attack by the number of total penalties on foe, not total bonuses on unit. So, not exactly a Blade Weapon right there.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, Azure in a Roundabout said:

Blizzard increases Gunnthrá’s attack by the number of total penalties on foe, not total bonuses on unit. So, not exactly a Blade Weapon right there.

Which still falls under the category of "add a bunch of potentially big numbers together and then drop that all on your Atk stat".

You're pretty much arguing that I can't lump Fortify Res under "Hone-like skills" because it adds Res instead of Atk or Spd (fun fact: the differentiation between "Hone" and "Fortify" only exists in the localizations of the game).

Edited February 13, 2019 by Ice Dragon