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Which Lord has the most interesting concept?


Jotari
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Which lord has the most interesting concept (choose three)?  

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  1. 1. Which lord has the most interesting concept (choose three)?



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A comment in the Sword Lords thread got me thinking about this. Ignoring writing and the actual execution of the ideas, which protagonist in the series do you think is the most interesting in terms of basic concept? I think I'd have to give it to Lyn. Biracial, raised by mongols, only for her family to be slaughtered and suddenly forced to live in the coniving political landscape that makes up her other heritage. That's interesting stuff. Shame they didn't really develop it into a character that felt useful in the plot though...

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Yeah, I felt that Lyn did have an interesting concept that wasn't explored enough simply because she's a woman (because it seems that according to IS, a woman can't be central to the plot unless a man is also central to it... >_>).

Ike also has one of the best imo. He's not even of noble or royal birth like other lords, he's a commoner that worked his way up the ladder. I like that. It shows the main character working for their status and respect instead of just being born with it. It's one thing I always really liked about him.

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Seliph and Leif. Two lords who have been on the run since birth due to living in a world where the bad guys have already won. 

Sigurd, too, for being more or less a "deconstruction" of the lord archetype. He does everything you'd expect a Fire Emblem lord to do, but his situation is treated with biting realism. While fighting purely for good and his friends would have saw him through to the end of any other FE, in the real world, it would lead to him being targeted, taken advantage of, and killed. Which, well... 

Honorable mentions to Lyn, Alm and Ike, who are all raised as commoners(Lyn a nomad, Alm a farm boy, Ike a mercenary) who all eventually have to settle in to lord positions. Or in Ike's case, refuse and rough it in the woods with his buddies. 

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In my opinion, it's Sigurd. Pretty much for what Slumber has mentioned. In the end, he didn't won. Despite finding himself in a dire situation, he still goes on, and when it finally looked like things were looking up... they come crashing down even harder. So yeah, having a lord to actually lose is... very quite fascinating. It's the same sort of situations like in Final Fantasy VI, when Kefka wins. That sort of stuff. You know the game will continue, but for that brief moment... you failed. You lost. Wasn't a Game Over, but you still lost.

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Kris

He should have been written more overtly as a "secret history" type of charather, to go with the "Heroes of Light and Darkness" title. To that extent, there should have been a reason (preferrably motivational, for the sake of Marth's role) for his actions to be unrecognized despite what they would have contributed toward ending the war. In the most extreme cases, you could even imagine an underworld type of Kris being empployed or even the founding of the Assasin's group being a (narrowly avoided)stain on Arachnean History in a slightly revised version of the game.

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I got to say it's Lucina (If she counts). A girl who came back in time disguised as her great-great-great-great-great-great-great and a few more greats grandfather to save her timeline from invasion by a dragon that can make zombies and killed her dad. Although I don't know if she would technically fit the description of lord, even though she has the class, but is not the main character of the game. However, Lyn would kick her butt just because she was raised by Mongols. After all, the great kingdoms of the years all had lords who were too scared to fight in a dress, except for the MONGOLS. 

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Now that you put it that way, Lyn is quite interesting. Too bad they made her and her story as vanilla as possible onwards. Don't like the way they introduced her family situation either, too sudden. And then she just cheers right back up, cheapens the whole thing.    

For my pick, it's Corrin. First dragon lord, born to one kingdom, raised by another and not related to either. They only focus on Corrin's dragon form once. I don't care how much someone hates Fates' story, you can't tell me that chapter 5 wasn't good. It's one of the many wasted potentials of the game.   

 

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

 

Ike also has one of the best imo. He's not even of noble or royal birth like other lords, he's a commoner that worked his way up the ladder. I like that. It shows the main character working for their status and respect instead of just being born with it. It's one thing I always really liked about him.

I agree with all but one thing.

Ike is of noble birth. 

 

 

Edited by Køkø
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15 minutes ago, Køkø said:

I agree with all but one thing.

Ike is of noble birth.

Arguable. Greil was a noble based purely on his position as a general, but he relinquished his title as a general.

Though Ike might have been born while Greil was still a general, so... technicalities.

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15 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Arguable. Greil was a noble based purely on his position as a general, but he relinquished his title as a general.

Even if it's true, it still shows Ike doesn't exactly have commoner origins. He is actually not that different from previous FE lords like Alm or Lief. They too had to grow up in simpler (and in Lief's case, more hostile) lives than what their fathers had. And no different from most lords who at least get to live until teenagehood before they lose it. Ike is only unique in the sense the loss happened even before he was born, so he never had to lose it himself. Greil already did that before Ike was born. As such, he never has anything to "retake", unlike other lords. And that's what makes it interesting, for Ike.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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Ike was born in Gallia though, so he was born after Greil threw away his title, meaning Ike was not born a noble, so he was not of noble birth. At least, this is how I see it. And he still had to work for and earn his title of lord and all the respect he got from people. Pretty much every other lord in the series was born with that stuff.

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8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Ike was born in Gallia though, so he was born after Greil threw away his title, meaning Ike was not born a noble, so he was not of noble birth. At least, this is how I see it. And he still had to work for and earn his title of lord and all the respect he got from people. Pretty much every other lord in the series was born with that stuff.

To be fair, for people like Alm or Leif or Lyn, it mattered little that they were born with it since they lost it almost as quickly from being born. Heck, Lyn, like Ike, was born after the fact (for the Calein heritage, not the Lorca one). So it can't be said they truly ever had it, so they too had to work and earn them (back).

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

Arguable. Greil was a noble based purely on his position as a general, but he relinquished his title as a general.

 

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Ike was born in Gallia though, so he was born after Greil threw away his title, meaning Ike was not born a noble, so he was not of noble birth. At least, this is how I see it. And he still had to work for and earn his title of lord and all the respect he got from people. Pretty much every other lord in the series was born with that stuff.

A lot of people argue displacement when I tell them this. What's the difference between relinquishing your title and having it taken away from you in this context? 

It doesn't change the legacy or bloodline either way. Ike is more qualified to be ruler of Daein than Pelleas or Micaiah, second only to Soren. Fiona has her own territory within the country, if he wanted to, Ike is entitled to have the same. 

His father was an elite general, and known continent wide as the greatest swordsman alive. His mother is one of the few people immune to the medallion, something only herons should be able to do. Along with inheriting this ability, Mist is said to have laguz level hearing. Whether this indicates partial heron ancestry or super rare genetics from Elena doesn't change the fact that Ike is not exactly the son of pig farmers.

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7 minutes ago, Køkø said:

His father was an elite general, and known continent wide as the greatest swordsman alive. His mother is one of the few people immune to the medallion, something only herons should be able to do. Along with inheriting this ability, Mist is said to have laguz level hearing. Whether this indicates partial heron ancestry or super rare genetics from Elena doesn't change the fact that Ike is not exactly the son of pig farmers.

Ike did not gain the abilities his mother or Mist had though, so he did not inherit those "genes" and that's irrelevant. And he had to be taught the swordsmanship he got. So Ike is not really special in any way. He didn't gain noble blood since his father relinquished his title and he did not inherit Elena's chaos/order balance.

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11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Ike did not gain the abilities his mother or Mist had though, so he did not inherit those "genes" and that's irrelevant. 

Where did I say he did? It is most certainly not irrelevant, Ike has genes that are capable of staving off the will of a goddess. Pretty damn special if you ask me or anyone else without bias. 

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 And he had to be taught the swordsmanship he got. So Ike is not really special in any way. He didn't gain noble blood since his father relinquished his title and he did not inherit Elena's chaos/order balance.

By the greatest swordsman on the continent. Who also happens to be his father. Seems you didn't read or understand the first part.

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Just now, Køkø said:

Where did I say he did? It is most certainly not "irrelevant", Ike has genes that are capable of staving off the will of a goddess. Pretty damn special if you ask me or anyone else without bias. 

By the greatest swordsman on the continent. Who also happens to be his father. Seems you didn't read or understand the first part.

But Ike doesn't have those genes since he did not inherit them.

Yeah, so?

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6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

But Ike doesn't have those genes since he did not inherit them.

Ike came out of the same womb Mist did, how does not have his mother's genetics? Who's to say a descendant of his couldn't inherit Elena's abilities? This is basic stuff here. 

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 

Yeah, so?

Oh dear. At least clarify which one it was. You can't argue with someone if you don't even listen to them.

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2 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Ike came out of the same womb Mist did, how does not have his mother's genetics? Who's to say a descendant of his couldn't inherit Elena's abilities? This is basic stuff here. 

 

Oh dear. At least clarify which one it was. You can't argue with someone if you don't even listen to them.

How do we know that the chaos/order balance thing is actually genetic? It's not said. It could just be that Elena and Mist both happen to have the same character qualities required for that balance. And even if it was, Ike still does not have both in balance. So if it is genes, they do nothing for him, making them irrelevant.

I meant so what if Ike's father was a superb swordsman that trained him? Not like that's unnatural or doesn't make sense.

Edited by Anacybele
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59 minutes ago, Køkø said:

For my pick, it's Corrin. First dragon lord, born to one kingdom, raised by another and not related to either. They only focus on Corrin's dragon form once. I don't care how much someone hates Fates' story, you can't tell me that chapter 5 wasn't good. It's one of the many wasted potentials of the game.   

 

Chapter 5 wasn't good at all. I don't think they had a single chapter that was good. Even half the concepts were shitty(imo). Choosing blood over the people who actually raised you? So many issues there. And idk. The whole thing. I think the concept was messed up from the start for that game for me, so I never saw it as wasted potential so much as just, already messed up.

But for favorite Lord (with concept)....hmm. If Lucina counts, she is my favorite. She bore witness to so much, and came back to save the world, and idk. Her whole story is so deep and I love her. And even though I feel like there could have been a few changes, she had a great concept (imo). Second would be Lyn. But I feel like she was written a bit flat (part of the times I guess). 

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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, I felt that Lyn did have an interesting concept that wasn't explored enough simply because she's a woman (because it seems that according to IS, a woman can't be central to the plot unless a man is also central to it... >_>).

I'm a touch curious as to why people always say Lyn got the shaft because she's a woman. Almost everyone I've asked about why Lyn didn't get the same character development as Eliwood and Hector just says "it's 'cuz she's a woman" and leaves it at that, with the occasional ridiculous remark about how misogynistic our world is(thanks for not adding something generic like that Ana - I do agree IS seems to take a somewhat odd stance on the matter). Do we have any sort of proof that was the actual reason, or are people just making assumptions based on the timeframe Fire Emblem is based off of(the modern perception of medieval England or thereabouts, when most women stayed home while their husbands went off to war or whatever it is people think that timeframe was about) and subsequent entries in the series(IE Eirika, Celica, etc)?

Just something I've been pondering for a bit and thought I'd ask the community's thoughts on.

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14 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

How do we know that the chaos/order balance thing is actually genetic? It's not said. It could just be that Elena and Mist both happen to have the same character qualities required for that balance.

We don't. But considering Elena and her daughter were the only humans capable of doing so out of all the nuns at the temple, it's a safe assumption that's it's genetic and not a personality thing. Mist is actually quite hot-headed and quippy at times, not befitting for one who can resist the aura of chaos. Another support for the genetics argument. 

14 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

 

I meant so what if Ike's father was a superb swordsman that trained him? Not like that's unnatural or doesn't make sense.

You said that Ike wasn't special in any way, that's quite the head start.  And there's the fact the Ike has, you know, his genetics? How do we know Ike would be as powerful if he weren't Gawain's son? 

8 minutes ago, Sunsurge said:

Chapter 5 wasn't good at all. I don't think they had a single chapter that was good. Even half the concepts were shitty(imo). Choosing blood over the people who actually raised you? So many issues there. And idk. The whole thing. I think the concept was messed up from the start for that game for me, so I never saw it as wasted potential so much as just, already messed up.

That's not chapter 5. Corrin isn't related to either royal family, nor does he/she have a canon path choice so what are you talking about?

Edited by Køkø
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I consider it that unless stated otherwise, if parentage at all unusual exists for a character in a story, they will have had inheritance of some import from it.

 

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Honorable mentions to Lyn, Alm and Ike, who are all raised as commoners(Lyn a nomad, Alm a farm boy, Ike a mercenary) who all eventually have to settle in to lord positions. Or in Ike's case, refuse and rough it in the woods with his buddies. 

Assuming no Elector marriage, Lyn does return to the plains and abandon her lordly duties.

 

1 hour ago, Køkø said:

Now that you put it that way, Lyn is quite interesting. Too bad they made her and her story as vanilla as possible onwards. Don't like the way they introduced her family situation either, too sudden. And then she just cheers right back up, cheapens the whole thing.    

Well they don't quite forget it since it is brought up again when HEL has to seek help from Fergus (typo intentional). But yes, Lyn does sound interesting when put this way, but alas, she is just a kind tutorial bot to the end.

 

2 minutes ago, Sunsurge said:

And even though I feel like there could have been a few changes, she had a great concept (imo).

Doing more with her fellow Awakening kiddos would be a big help. It'd feel like she did more if she had a coterie of friends to lead and tell "you stop this from happen, you monitor that".

 

1 minute ago, SoulWeaver said:

Just something I've been pondering for a bit and thought I'd ask the community's thoughts on.

FE is in this odd place where the setting is Medieval, but the values are modern. Who would question the importance of hierarchy in a real Medieval Valentia? FE already has Pegasus Knights, why must the women be politically on the bed and in the kitchen?

I will always say Lyn's real problem is being a tutorial bot invented for the sake of introducing the series to international players. That was all she made to do, and her existence thereafter is a bonus.

Why did IS choose her for a tutorial bot? Why not make it a big stupid Hector who has to educated in the very basics of FE gameplay? I'd like to know, but I don't think IS has ever explained why Lyn was created/chosen for this purpose.

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10 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

I'm a touch curious as to why people always say Lyn got the shaft because she's a woman. Almost everyone I've asked about why Lyn didn't get the same character development as Eliwood and Hector just says "it's 'cuz she's a woman" and leaves it at that, with the occasional ridiculous remark about how misogynistic our world is(thanks for not adding something generic like that Ana - I do agree IS seems to take a somewhat odd stance on the matter). Do we have any sort of proof that was the actual reason, or are people just making assumptions based on the timeframe Fire Emblem is based off of(the modern perception of medieval England or thereabouts, when most women stayed home while their husbands went off to war or whatever it is people think that timeframe was about) and subsequent entries in the series(IE Eirika, Celica, etc)?

Just something I've been pondering for a bit and thought I'd ask the community's thoughts on.

It's because IS has never let a female have a lead role all to herself. They always had to share the spotlight with or get overshadowed by a male. Celica shares with Alm, Lyn is overshadowed by Eliwood and Hector, Eirika has to share with Ephraim, Ike overshadows Micaiah, and Lucina is only a lord in class and nothing else while Chrom is a complete lord. Avatars are different because they're avatars and their gender can be chosen by the player.

9 minutes ago, Køkø said:

We don't. But considering Elena and her daughter were the only humans capable of doing so out of all the nuns at the temple, it's a safe assumption that's it's genetic and not a personality thing. Mist is actually quite hot-headed and quippy at times, not befitting for one who can resist the aura of chaos. Another support for the genetics argument. 

You said that Ike wasn't special in any way, that's quite the head start.  And there's the fact the Ike has, you know, his genetics? How do we know Ike would be as powerful if he weren't Gawain's son?

Mist could've just as easily gotten the right characteristics from her mother too. Also, since the herons can touch the medallion as well, and they're not related to Elena or Mist, that proves that it may not in fact be genetics. And like I said, it's still irrelevant to Ike since he did not get this power.

At least learning swordsmanship from someone makes sense and is reasonable like I said. Ike wasn't born knowing how to wield a sword as well as he does, he had to learn it.

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This is going to sound sarcastic, Ana, just a heads-up.

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Lucina is only a lord in class and nothing else while Chrom is a complete lord.

Ah, yes, that did so much good for him. Let me pick him up off the floor of Arena Ferox and let him know he needs to stop crying about not being in Smash and being relatively obscure despite it being HIS game.

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2 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

This is going to sound sarcastic, Ana, just a heads-up.

Ah, yes, that did so much good for him. Let me pick him up off the floor of Arena Ferox and let him know he needs to stop crying about not being in Smash and being relatively obscure despite it being HIS game.

I hope this is ALL sarcasm/joking. Did you forget that like 95% of all female Robins marry Chrom? He has a lot of fangirls/boys.

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7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Mist could've just as easily gotten the right characteristics from her mother too. Also, since the herons can touch the medallion as well, and they're not related to Elena or Mist, that proves that it may not in fact be genetics. And like I said, it's still irrelevant to Ike since he did not get this power.

And how else could she had gotten them if not through genetics? Mist was too young when Elena died to say it was through teaching her, so to speak.

Bringing the Herons is going on a tangent. The Herons are creatures of order. They simply overpower the chaotic energies on the medallion, they're not in balance. So Mist, and Elena, being in balance has little to no relation to the Herons, because they have different situations.

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