Which Lord has the most interesting concept?

[Arthur97]

6 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Out of curiosity, how many of those were like my first runthrough where I didn't know the game was gonna force me to marry him if I didn't get him a wife in time?

It's mostly sarcasm - I mean, this IS me we're talking about - but there's some personal opinion in there too. When I look at Awakening's story, Lucina watches her world literally go to heck, refuses to accept that result, finds a way to go back in time to try to fix things, ends up fixing things(Ch.6), has to watch it all fall apart again(Ch.9), accidentally lets her emotions get the better of her while trying to fix things again thus blowing her cover(Ch.13 if memory serves), joins Chrom's group supposedly to help them deal with Walhart(though it was probably to keep an eye on Robin), ends up being forced to make a choice with no visible right answer(sack her father's best friend and possibly her mother/husband or watch the world burn) but is willing to sacrifice her own wishes for the sake of the greater good(especially true if you married Chrom or her), even going so far as to be prepared to duel her own mother/husband to the death should you refuse to just lie down and die, then she chooses to trust Chrom in spite of her misgivings when he says they'll find a way to overcome the future, has to watch the ordeal at the Dragon's Table without knowing Chrom and Robin planned ahead, thus assuming she'd failed once more, panics and loses her regained hope during the cutscene of her and Chrom running from the Dragon's Table after Grima pulls its literal Deus Ex Machina, still trusts Chrom and refuses to give up, and eventually sees the whole thing to its conclusion with the happy ending.
From what I could see, Lucina was growing all throughout the second half of the game, while Chrom gets character growth in like Chapters 8 to 11 and the main extent of that growth is basically him figuring out there's more than one way to deal with a war while dealing with his sister's half-suicide remarkably well, though I suppose part of that is because he's a prince at war and can't afford to let his feelings overcome him until at least after Chapter 11 happens, so it's possible he spent much of the two year interval between 11 and 12 grieving about Emmeryn(only to find lol she lived cuz Paralogue 20). If you made the comparison of Lucina being overshadowed by Robin, then yes, I would wholeheartedly agree considering a random amnesiac tactician manages to avert world catastrophe and makes it look as easy as " " does, with Robin's only two failures nullified by Emmeryn turning the first failure into a meaningful plot device(what can I say, she had the high ground and she made full use of it, Gangrel never stood a chance) and the second failure being overturned by the power of Pikachu's Tears friendship. I'd say Lucina is by no means overshadowed by Chrom, rather that she is on par with him and if anything both of them were equally overshadowed by Robin. Essentially, if you ask me Lucina and Chrom do the dual Lord thing much better than Alm and Celica and also Ephraim and Eirika.

I would also like to note that Robin loses, like, over half of the army in Valm. Granted, it wasn't their idea to split the army, but as acting tactician, they probably should have said something.

[ping]

Personally, I don't see genetics as a Thing in Fire Emblem, especially in the Tellius games. How would one explain the inheritance of the Branded status in Begnion's imperial dynasty? Only the oldest children are branded - how would that mendel out? How is it possible that Palla, Catria, and Est have all completely different haircolors? Fire Emblem doesn't run on science or genes, it runs on magic, fate, artistic liberty, destiny, aesthetics, divine intervention and all that jazz.

As such, I perceive Ike as a "commoner", simply because he is viewed as such in-universe. Ultimately, nobles aren't nobles because of their "special blood", but because they're recognized as nobles by society. If the duchess has some fun with the stable lad and noone suspects them, their son will still be the next duke when his "father" dies.

--

@topic: I agree with what has been said about Corrin. His position between the royal families of two warring nations could have been a great twist on the usual FE formula, but unfortunately, the writers didn't make it work.

[Paper Jam]

By the time Ike found out that his father had been a Daein general (i.e. when Volke told him at the end of PoR chapter 19), he had already gained the peerage on his own merits.

Given how quick he was at the end of PoR to throw away a title that he had earned, and how much he disdained inherited titles, he'd probably care even less about a title that he had inherited.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure that Ike ever connected the dots to conclude that his father must have been a Daein noble. Even in RD Part IV, he seemed confused about all of his links to Daein, even though he had had plenty of information linking his family to Daein by then.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Paper Jam

[NekoKnight]

The distinction I would make between Ike and Alm is that while both have some notable forebears, Alm is specifically destined for greatness and is implied to be naturally better than his peasant friends. Ike meanwhile doesn't have any unique powers that we know of and earned his place in the world. 

Micaiah is an interesting premise of a girl who must lead the resistance of a former antagonistic country, is forced to bend her morals to defend her people and herself is conflicted because of how people in her country would treat her if they knew what she was. FE Jean of Arc is pretty cool.

Corrin probably wins the gold medal for the premise, and is also the worst execution of any premise. A kidnapped royalty who must choose between the morally grey people who raised him or his blood family from the morally white country. There was a lot of room for personal drama and exploring the values that shape the fate of the protagonist. There was also the matter of his dragon powers that could have been really interesting. AND WE ALL KNOW HOW THAT WENT.

On 2/17/2018 at 10:10 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

I hear a lot of people saying Ike but I don't think the his story is interesting per se. A boy from low birth needing to become a man as he's swept into events far bigger than himself is actually fairly standard. What sets Ike apart isn't the concept behind him but the competence in which its executed. 

There are two things.

The first is that it's a fairly unique protagonist (a commoner instead of a noble) as far as FE is concerned and second, his premise includes a meaningful character arc which is different from the more story driven plots that focus on stopping the bad guy over the protagonist developing.

Edited February 18, 2018 by NekoKnight

[SoulWeaver]

11 hours ago, ping said:

How is it possible that Palla, Catria, and Est have all completely different haircolors?

Obviously one of their parents had Peri-esque multicolor hair!

[Køkø]

13 hours ago, ping said:

Personally, I don't see genetics as a Thing in Fire Emblem, especially in the Tellius games. How would one explain the inheritance of the Branded status in Begnion's imperial dynasty? Only the oldest children are branded - how would that mendel out? How is it possible that Palla, Catria, and Est have all completely different haircolors? Fire Emblem doesn't run on science or genes, it runs on magic, fate, artistic liberty, destiny, aesthetics, divine intervention and all that jazz.

Have you played any of the games involving child siring? Ike and Mist look exactly like a mix of the parents, both directly inheriting their parents abilities. How can you say genetics aren't a thing? You question how the pegasus sisters have different hair colors, but not why it's green, blue, and pink? The former actually exists in real life. Like blue-eyed parents giving birth to brown eyed children? Have you considered they might not have the same mother or father? Perhaps they're not actually related at all.  

You said it yourself, magic exists in this universe. That doesn't mean that it and logic are mutually exclusive. The creators didn't bother to go into detail about Apostles for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to blend reality and fiction.

Were you just commenting, or trying to disprove what I said about Ike's genetics?

Edited February 18, 2018 by Køkø

[Etrurian emperor]

58 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

Obviously one of their parents had Peri-esque multicolor hair!

Or perhaps their dad really got around :D Or otherwise their mom did.

[ping]

17 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Were you just commenting, or trying to disprove what I said about Ike's genetics?

My point is that I don't see Ike as a noble just because Greil used to be one - nobody, including Ike himself, sees him as a Daein whatever-title-Gawain-used-to-have, and there is nothing in his blood or in his genes that would change that. He grew up as the son of a mere mercenary, and even after he learned about his lineage, his family's ties to Daein only ever come to play when they learn about Lehran's medallion.

The stuff about genetics not being a thing is more of a general comment, I guess. What I was trying to say is that there are no Mendelian inheritance in the FEverse(s) - appearances and especially special abilities are inherited if and how it is convenient and/or aesthetically appropriate. Mist and Ike look like their parents with swapped hair colors because the artists liked that idea - how "realistic" is it that the inheritance is so perfectly mirrored? The pegasus sisters have three completely different hair colors because they're meant to contrast each other (and we're talking about completely different colors here, not different shades of blonde or brunette. I'm not sure if that would really be possible with real-world genetics, unrealistic haircolors aside).

[Køkø]

3 hours ago, ping said:

My point is that I don't see Ike as a noble just because Greil used to be one - nobody, including Ike himself, sees him as a Daein whatever-title-Gawain-used-to-have, and there is nothing in his blood or in his genes that would change that. He grew up as the son of a mere mercenary, and even after he learned about his lineage, his family's ties to Daein only ever come to play when they learn about Lehran's medallion.

It's probably best for me to just drop the nobility thing at this point. I seem to be the only one who thinks so. Is Alm not a prince because he was raised as a commoner in a different kingdom? 

3 hours ago, ping said:

 

The stuff about genetics not being a thing is more of a general comment, I guess. What I was trying to say is that there are no Mendelian inheritance in the FEverse(s) - appearances and especially special abilities are inherited if and how it is convenient and/or aesthetically appropriate. Mist and Ike look like their parents with swapped hair colors because the artists liked that idea - how "realistic" is it that the inheritance is so perfectly mirrored? The pegasus sisters have three completely different hair colors because they're meant to contrast each other (and we're talking about completely different colors here, not different shades of blonde or brunette. I'm not sure if that would really be possible with real-world genetics, unrealistic haircolors aside).

What I was basically saying was that there is some logic behind what goes on in FE, it doesn't have to be 100% realistic. 

And I gave three other possible reasons the Pegasus Trio might have different hair colors.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Køkø

[Jotari]

Pegasus Sisters might just dye their hair you know. Est does jump between auburn, brunette and vibrant pink afterall.

[Arthur97]

It is possible for siblings to have different hair colors.

[SoulWeaver]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Pegasus Sisters might just dye their hair you know. Est does jump between auburn, brunette and vibrant pink afterall.

Shhhhh, keep it down! We don't need anyone realizing these kinds of things, man!

[Ae†her]

I chose Robin because he's the only one where he is a lord, but he doesn't know it yet, and ends up spending time with other lords. 

Edit: Screw Alm, he sucks.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Ae†her

[Paper Jam]

Quote

It's probably best for me to just drop the nobility thing at this point. I seem to be the only one who thinks so. Is Alm not a prince because he was raised as commoner in a different kingdom?

Being raised as a commoner in a different kingdom is one thing. Having no respect for nobility, accepting peerage only grudgingly, and then throwing it away as soon as it's no longer necessary, is another.

I haven't played enough of Echoes to know, but it seems from what I have played that Alm isn't nearly as disdainful of airs as Ike.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Paper Jam

[Sentacotus]

I would say anyone who is a commoner or coming of age story its more relatable so Ike/Alm.  I do also like Lucina's time traveling with the other kids to try to prevent the apocalypse Terminator/DBZ Trunks style.

[Water Mage]

Some say that Conquest Corrin had the most lost potential but I disagree. Birthright Corrin had more potential in my opinion. I mean, it’s first we get a Lord that betrays the nation they belonged. A Traitor Lord had so much potential, it’s a shame they went with the classic Fire Emblem plot with Birthright.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Water Mage said:

Some say that Conquest Corrin had the most lost potential but I disagree. Birthright Corrin had more potential in my opinion. I mean, it’s first we get a Lord that betrays the nation they belonged. A Traitor Lord had so much potential, it’s a shame they went with the classic Fire Emblem plot with Birthright.

Sigurd unintentionally becomes a traitor lord during Chapter 4/5 of Holy War.

[Water Mage]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Sigurd unintentionally becomes a traitor lord during Chapter 4/5 of Holy War.

Yeah, but he’s sort manipulated into becoming a traitor, so it’s not quite the same.

[Reality]

43 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Sigurd unintentionally becomes a traitor lord during Chapter 4/5 of Holy War.

You might as well argue Mystery of Emblem Marth was the first traitor lord at that point. Also Sigurd being a traitor only holds so much weight when Arvis and co are themselves traitors for the whole Prince Kurth murder. (yes it's unkonwn at that point).

[Shoblongoo]

Voted Hector--love the concept and execution behind his character.

Youngest son of a noble house who never expects to actually take the throne, because everything is supposed to pass on through his older brother's bloodline. Hates courtly duties. Never learns proper etiquette. Basically runs off to fight in the arena when hes supposed to be receiving a lordly education with his peers and is allowed to get away with it all because--younger brother--no one really expects that he's going to need to perform the duties of a Lord.

He also just so happens to be built like a truck and insanely good at fighting. So if he'd rather be a brawler than a statesman--great--keep him far, far away from Court so he can't make a proper oaf of himself, and let him have his fun. That's just the attitude everyone has towards him.   

...except there's just one small problem. His brother dies without heir while he's out campaigning in the field with Lord Eliwood. Hector is now High Lord of Ostia. Shit just got real.

Its one of those subtle little subplots to FE7 that's--well--an amazing story in its own right, if you really stop and think about it. And one the themes that gives FE7 its charm.  

Edited February 19, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

I'm gonna go off script here and say Hector. Why? Because he's so much darn fun xD That exchange in Heroes between Hector, Lyn, and Eliwood in Love Abounds is the best thing.

On script for me, I really like Micaiah. She had no combat or tactical training - especially not from some grand hero she was raised by an old woman, she wasn't just usurped from her throne in Begnion - they flat out try to kill her (why is it so hard to kill babies in fiction?), she was a fortune teller before getting mixed up in resistance, and before this was perfectly happy to never be in a spotlight. On top of that to my knowledge she's the only Lord to have to flat out throw away her own sense of morality for the sake of her country.

[Jingle Jangle]

Out of all the Lords in the series, for me it's Chrom. Due to him being a young leader that is on the verge of change.

[Strawman]

I put in votes for Lyn, Ike, Michaiah, and Corrin. If I had to chose one it would probably be Michaiah. There was a lot more they could have explored about the branded in the Tellius games and having a branded lord in that context could have been great. Laguz vs Beorc tensions are so high in both games, it would have been nice to have branded factor into that greater than either lumping them into the "leave society to start our own small, not depicted community" or the "part of the major conflict but only secretly branded" camps.