Jotari

Which Lord has the most interesting concept?

Which lord has the most interesting concept (choose three)?  

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  1. 1. Which lord has the most interesting concept (choose three)?



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Throwing in a vote for Corrin.  They'd have a shot at being my favorite lord, if the game wasn't so devoted to kissing up to them, they were actually related to the Hoshidans, and all the other issues Corrin's execution has.

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I think in terms of concept I would have to give it to Leif and there are a few reasons why but the biggest one is that he's a fugative in his own country. Some other contendors are Seliph where he has to fight against his own countrymen. Lastly but certainly not least is Ike, one of the big things I like with Ike is that he's not a prince or a knight but a mercenary. He has no obligation to do what he does but he still does.

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I think Corrin has probably the most interesting concept.

Blood of a dragon. Raised by an enemy nation. Have to choose between loyalty and blood.

Too bad what we got was terrible in terms of writing

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Also gonna have to throw in a vote for Corn. Great concept, terribly executed.

Other than that the Jugdral lords are all pretty interesting. Sigurd pretty much be the most perfect lord in the series is the same one who probably faces the harshest punishments any other lord faces a.k.a actually dying. Seliph and Leif are also really cool too, being two lords on the run trying to claim their home lands back (With Leif being a bit more interesting since he grows a lot more and Thracia just having a better plot then GotHW Gen 2).

I guess Alm, Lyn and Ike are pretty cool too. Alm being raised a commoner but is actually the prince of the enemy nation, Lyn born of nobility and plainsman and Ike who despite being teh son of the greatest swordsman in all of Tellius and a woman perfectly in balance with chaos and order, is just a normal mercenary (I also agree with Koko that Ike does have some special blood in him, not noble, but special shit nonetheless).

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4 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's kind of funny you compared Micaiah to Lyn, Alm and Ike. If you think about it, she's the most commonly raised even with her magic Jesus powers. She didn't have some like Mycen or Gwain, big respected general guys (and I'm not sure you can even call Lyn raised as a commoner, considering she was the daughter of her tribes chief, which is as noble as you'd get from Sacae). Micaiah was basically a homless street ruffian for most of her life. It doesn't get more common than that (Jesus powers aside).

I just kind of meant to how there was seemingly nothing special to Lyn, Alm, and Ike, and they all lived normal-ish lives for the time period. Obviously Ike growing up around a bunch of mercs is a bit different than being a nomad on the plains or being a farm boy, but it's not a particularly noteworthy life.

While Micaiah fits the mold of being a blood royal/noble who grew up as a commoner like Lyn and Alm... She was a branded who doesn't age with Jesus powers, which is far from normal, even in Tellius.

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Arguable. Greil was a noble based purely on his position as a general, but he relinquished his title as a general.

Generalship comes from nobility (or came from nobility, before Ashnard changed the law and allowed commoners of sufficient skill to become generals), not the other way around.

In short, Gawain must have already been a noble before he became a general, according to Daein law at the time.

But yeah, the fact that Gawain abdicated his generalship and his nobility before Ike was born means that Ike is not of noble birth. And I think that makes his story that much more interesting. PoR is basically a story about Ike regaining what his father had lost.

Edited by Paper Jam

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Corrin, no contest. It would be enough of a mic drop if we stopped at the manakete part that so many of us have been clamoring for in a Lord years prior. But there's the potential for a nuanced story about identity and whether anybody could "choose" their family and nationality. A triple route split two hours into the game that results in three separate games - again, one of the most common features people ask for in a hypothetical new game is route splits. I know I explicitly had been asking for a game in which we choose between supporting two armies that are opposed to each other for at least half of the game. And finally, a personal weapon that grows with the Lord, taking the place of clunky story-based promotions in communicating a Lord's change in status and resolve.

Everything about Fates is an extremely ambitious game that was only halfway realized, and Corrin is the biggest part of it.

Edited by Glennstavos

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I think Sigurd is the most interesting lord, he was the first true lord and was caught in a realistic and unkind situation as a lord.

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Added a poll for funsies. Lucina and Robin included, since people brought them up. Anyone ever wish Serenes polls had a way of grading things? Like you can select your favourite to least favourite out of the results? I always thought it would be a nice feature. I feel making it an all or nothing choose one, doesn't necessary capture the feelings of the fanbase on a matter.

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Favorite lord is probably Ike or Sigurd but in the case of most interesting concept I went with Sigurd, Leif and Seliph.

Sigurd for being a guy who goes through the typical FE journey but faces a lot more difficulties and repercussions along the way.

Leif and Seliph because they're essentially exiled princes from their own home country the moment they were born.

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1 hour ago, Paper Jam said:

Generalship comes from nobility (or came from nobility, before Ashnard changed the law and allowed commoners of sufficient skill to become generals), not the other way around.

In short, Gawain must have already been a noble before he became a general, according to Daein law at the time.

That one escaped me. So Gawain was a noble prior to becoming a General Divine Knight Master Swordsman. 

1 hour ago, Paper Jam said:

 

But yeah, the fact that Gawain abdicated his generalship and his nobility before Ike was born means that Ike is not of noble birth. And I think that makes his story that much more interesting. PoR is basically a story about Ike regaining what his father had lost.

I don't understand this though. His title was never revoked until much later. He was still a noble by blood and title during Ike's birth, the latter was simply born and raised outside of his home country. By that logic, Seliph is not royalty because he was born in Agustria and raised in Issach to a mother that didn't know she was the princess. There have been some lords in the series that have had their territories conquered with their bloodlines slain or displaced. They don't magically stop being royalty or nobility because of that, why is Gawain simply disappearing and never resigning any different? For all Daein knew, he got kidnapped or had to go handle some business. It's not like he couldn't come back anytime he wanted to.

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29 minutes ago, Køkø said:

That one escaped me. So Gawain was a noble prior to becoming a General Divine Knight Master Swordsman. 

I don't understand this though. His title was never revoked until much later. He was still a noble by blood and title during Ike's birth, the latter was simply born and raised outside of his home country. By that logic, Seliph is not royalty because he was born in Agustria and raised in Issach to a mother that didn't know she was the princess. There have been some lords in the series that have had their territories conquered with their bloodlines slain or displaced. They don't magically stop being royalty or nobility because of that, why is Gawain simply disappearing and never resigning any different? For all Daein knew, he got kidnapped or had to go handle some business. It's not like he couldn't come back anytime he wanted to.

The difference would be that Gwain cut dies to Daein. If Ike wanted to, he could probably press for a claim to nobility in Daein. But Ike doesn't consider himself...Danish. He thinks of himself as a Crimeian citizen. Marth and Leif and co have been diposed, but they still see themself as noble (and are still treated as such by guys like Jeigan and Finn) and want to reclaim their home country. Ike has no interest in Daein (he didn't even know Greil's history until near the end of Path of Radiance) and even among Crimeia, he rejects the title that was granted to him between the two games. 

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30 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The difference would be that Gwain cut dies to Daein. If Ike wanted to, he could probably press for a claim to nobility in Daein. But Ike doesn't consider himself...Danish. He thinks of himself as a Crimeian citizen. Marth and Leif and co have been diposed, but they still see themself as noble (and are still treated as such by guys like Jeigan and Finn) and want to reclaim their home country. Ike has no interest in Daein (he didn't even know Greil's history until near the end of Path of Radiance) and even among Crimeia, he rejects the title that was granted to him between the two games. 

So you said it yourself. Ike doesn't have a Daein title because he chooses not to. Not because he's ineligible. 

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2 hours ago, Køkø said:

So you said it yourself. Ike doesn't have a Daein title because he chooses not to. Not because he's ineligible. 

We don't know if he'd be eligible or ineligible. Daein during the events of PoR, Daein's ruled by a crazy asshole who obviously doesn't care about blood. 

Petrine is a general of Daein despite being a Branded, which is about as far from a noble as people get in Tellius. They're treated as less than Laguz, who are already treated as less than Beorc. They're at the bottom of humanity from a societal standpoint. Ashnard likely made her a general because she's one of the strongest people in Daein, more or less the one thing Ashnard cares about.

In this regard, yeah, Ike probably would be eligible for some sort of title in Daein. Not because he's Greil's son, but because he's powerful enough to earn it in Ashnard's eyes. I doubt Ashnard would give two shits about giving anybody weak a title, regardless of what their lineage is. 

In RD, Daein is ruled by Begnion. Ike already earned(Not inherited) a Lord title from Begnion, so again, being the son of Greil does nothing for him here. 

Post-RD, Micaiah rules Daein with Sothe at her side. Two people who care about Ike and respect him immensely. They'd give him a noble title in a heartbeat, once again, completely divorced from the fact that he's Greil's son. 

Greil having once been nobility in Daein essentially doesn't matter at all. It doesn't grant Ike anything he doesn't already earn, or impact anything he could hypothetically earn.

Edited by Slumber

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2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

We don't know if he'd be eligible or ineligible. Daein during the events of PoR, Daein's ruled by a crazy asshole who obviously doesn't care about blood. 

Ike slew Ashnard personally though, anything he put into place would be null. Ike is nobility before, during, and after Ashnard due to blood, strength and blood.

5 minutes ago, Slumber said:

 

In RD, Daein is ruled by Begnion. Ike already earned(Not inherited) a Lord title from Begnion, so again, being the son of Greil does nothing for him here. 

Post-RD, Micaiah rules Daein with Sothe at her side. Two people who care about Ike and respect him immensely. They'd give him a noble title in a heartbeat, once again, completely divorced from the fact that he's Greil's son. 

Greil having once been nobility in Daein essentially doesn't matter at all. It doesn't grant Ike anything he doesn't already earn, or would hypothetically earn.

You seem to have missed the part where I agreed that Ike earned his status. Doesn't change the fact that he was nobility to begin with, with special master swordsman and chaos-resisting blood to boot. We have yet to have a true peasant lord in the series.

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15 minutes ago, Slumber said:

We don't know if he'd be eligible or ineligible. Daein during the events of PoR, Daein's ruled by a crazy asshole who obviously doesn't care about blood. 

Ike slew Ashnard personally though, anything he put into place would be null. Ike is nobility before, during, and after Ashnard due to blood, strength and blood.

15 minutes ago, Slumber said:

 

In RD, Daein is ruled by Begnion. Ike already earned(Not inherited) a Lord title from Begnion, so again, being the son of Greil does nothing for him here. 

Post-RD, Micaiah rules Daein with Sothe at her side. Two people who care about Ike and respect him immensely. They'd give him a noble title in a heartbeat, once again, completely divorced from the fact that he's Greil's son. 

Greil having once been nobility in Daein essentially doesn't matter at all. It doesn't grant Ike anything he doesn't already earn, or would hypothetically earn.

You seem to have missed the part where I agreed that Ike earned his status. Doesn't change the fact that he was nobility to begin with, with special master swordsman and chaos-resisting blood to boot. We have yet to have a true peasant lord in the series. 

 

Edit: Site is glitching out for me. I can't even erase the above. Got an error, refreshed the page and there were two.

Edited by Køkø

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Easily Micaiah, she's so....different, and also interesting,  i do think they could have used her better, but she's still on of my favorites lords.

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21 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I hope this is ALL sarcasm/joking. Did you forget that like 95% of all female Robins marry Chrom? He has a lot of fangirls/boys.

Out of curiosity, how many of those were like my first runthrough where I didn't know the game was gonna force me to marry him if I didn't get him a wife in time?

It's mostly sarcasm - I mean, this IS me we're talking about - but there's some personal opinion in there too. When I look at Awakening's story, Lucina watches her world literally go to heck, refuses to accept that result, finds a way to go back in time to try to fix things, ends up fixing things(Ch.6), has to watch it all fall apart again(Ch.9), accidentally lets her emotions get the better of her while trying to fix things again thus blowing her cover(Ch.13 if memory serves), joins Chrom's group supposedly to help them deal with Walhart(though it was probably to keep an eye on Robin), ends up being forced to make a choice with no visible right answer(sack her father's best friend and possibly her mother/husband or watch the world burn) but is willing to sacrifice her own wishes for the sake of the greater good(especially true if you married Chrom or her), even going so far as to be prepared to duel her own mother/husband to the death should you refuse to just lie down and die, then she chooses to trust Chrom in spite of her misgivings when he says they'll find a way to overcome the future, has to watch the ordeal at the Dragon's Table without knowing Chrom and Robin planned ahead, thus assuming she'd failed once more, panics and loses her regained hope during the cutscene of her and Chrom running from the Dragon's Table after Grima pulls its literal Deus Ex Machina, still trusts Chrom and refuses to give up, and eventually sees the whole thing to its conclusion with the happy ending.
From what I could see, Lucina was growing all throughout the second half of the game, while Chrom gets character growth in like Chapters 8 to 11 and the main extent of that growth is basically him figuring out there's more than one way to deal with a war while dealing with his sister's half-suicide remarkably well, though I suppose part of that is because he's a prince at war and can't afford to let his feelings overcome him until at least after Chapter 11 happens, so it's possible he spent much of the two year interval between 11 and 12 grieving about Emmeryn(only to find lol she lived cuz Paralogue 20). If you made the comparison of Lucina being overshadowed by Robin, then yes, I would wholeheartedly agree considering a random amnesiac tactician manages to avert world catastrophe and makes it look as easy as " " does, with Robin's only two failures nullified by Emmeryn turning the first failure into a meaningful plot device(what can I say, she had the high ground and she made full use of it, Gangrel never stood a chance) and the second failure being overturned by the power of Pikachu's Tears friendship. I'd say Lucina is by no means overshadowed by Chrom, rather that she is on par with him and if anything both of them were equally overshadowed by Robin. Essentially, if you ask me Lucina and Chrom do the dual Lord thing much better than Alm and Celica and also Ephraim and Eirika.

This is, of course, my opinion, so I get it if you disagree.

8 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Corrin, no contest. It would be enough of a mic drop if we stopped at the manakete part that so many of us have been clamoring for in a Lord years prior. But there's the potential for a nuanced story about identity and whether anybody could "choose" their family and nationality. A triple route split two hours into the game that results in three separate games - again, one of the most common features people ask for in a hypothetical new game is route splits. I know I explicitly had been asking for a game in which we choose between supporting two armies that are opposed to each other for at least half of the game. And finally, a personal weapon that grows with the Lord, taking the place of clunky story-based promotions in communicating a Lord's change in status and resolve.

Everything about Fates is an extremely ambitious game that was only halfway realized, and Corrin is the biggest part of it.

Wait, it takes people two hours to get to the Route Split?

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6 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

Wait, it takes people two hours to get to the Route Split?

Like I could remember. They give you the option to skip it for later playthroughs.

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1 minute ago, Glennstavos said:

Like I could remember. They give you the option to skip it for later playthroughs.

Haha, fair enough, I just whizzed through the gameplay once I realized they were tutorial Chapters and only spent time reading the story part.

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6 hours ago, Køkø said:

So you said it yourself. Ike doesn't have a Daein title because he chooses not to. Not because he's ineligible. 

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. And that's not an insignificant difference.

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1 hour ago, SoulWeaver said:

Wait, it takes people two hours to get to the Route Split?

Well P-5 aren't quite the easiest chapters. The Prologue is scripted basically, 1 is cake and quick, 2 isn't bad, but you can die. 3 is a pain because the boss is too darn dodgy. 4 is okay, since Ryoma helps move things along. 5 is a chore since everyone not Corrin is glass. I say all this continually playing on Lunatic, Normal it wouldn't be as bad for. Makes me wish Gunter was your standard Jagen and could maul all of them, instead of IS trying to force strategy on us in these fights.

 

4 hours ago, Køkø said:

You seem to have missed the part where I agreed that Ike earned his status. Doesn't change the fact that he was nobility to begin with, with special master swordsman and chaos-resisting blood to boot. We have yet to have a true peasant lord in the series. 

 

We don't know if Ike has medallion resistance though. Ike never touches it. I'd be inclined to think due to his warrior nature, that he'd succumb like his father. The closest we get is him being able to channel Yune for the final strike to Ashera, but that isn't the same- Yune wasn't intentionally trying to berserk Ike there.

 

10 hours ago, Slumber said:

While Micaiah fits the mold of being a blood royal/noble who grew up as a commoner like Lyn and Alm... She was a branded who doesn't age with Jesus powers, which is far from normal, even in Tellius.

She does age, the Branded aren't immortal, she is only in her late twenties at best. Begnion has had 35 Apostle-Empresses in 625 years, less an average reign of less than 20 years. The Apostles might be able to consistently hit the upper limit of human life expectancy 80-100, but I don't think they live super long.

 

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

The difference would be that Gwain cut dies to Daein. If Ike wanted to, he could probably press for a claim to nobility in Daein. But Ike doesn't consider himself...Danish. He thinks of himself as a Crimeian citizen.

Ike was also born in Gallia and his attitude is more suited to Laguz society than Beorc. Ike is if anything to me, a citizen of the world. I actually like that he isn't so bound to any one country like every other lord in the series barring Lyn is. Of course, Seliph is also cosmopolitan, since he's Agustrian-born, Issachan-raised, and Grannvale blooded/regnant. But Seliph settles into being Grannvalian at the end, Ike, being a mercenary with no country to rule, is free to remain worldly, even if it ends with a not so great character ending.

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9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well P-5 aren't quite the easiest chapters. The Prologue is scripted basically, 1 is cake and quick, 2 isn't bad, but you can die. 3 is a pain because the boss is too darn dodgy. 4 is okay, since Ryoma helps move things along. 5 is a chore since everyone not Corrin is glass. I say all this continually playing on Lunatic, Normal it wouldn't be as bad for. Makes me wish Gunter was your standard Jagen and could maul all of them, instead of IS trying to force strategy on us in these fights.

 

We don't know if Ike has medallion resistance though. Ike never touches it. I'd be inclined to think due to his warrior nature, that he'd succumb like his father. The closest we get is him being able to channel Yune for the final strike to Ashera, but that isn't the same- Yune wasn't intentionally trying to berserk Ike there.

 

She does age, the Branded aren't immortal, she is only in her late twenties at best. Begnion has had 35 Apostle-Empresses in 625 years, less an average reign of less than 20 years. The Apostles might be able to consistently hit the upper limit of human life expectancy 80-100, but I don't think they live super long.

 

Ike was also born in Gallia and his attitude is more suited to Laguz society than Beorc. Ike is if anything to me, a citizen of the world. I actually like that he isn't so bound to any one country like every other lord in the series barring Lyn is. Of course, Seliph is also cosmopolitan, since he's Agustrian-born, Issachan-raised, and Grannvale blooded/regnant. But Seliph settles into being Grannvalian at the end, Ike, being a mercenary with no country to rule, is free to remain worldly, even if it ends with a not so great character ending.

I think you might be overstating Ike's worldlyness. Much like is Daein ancestory, he didn't even know he was born in Gallia until he went there and the laguz told him. He fights under the banner of Crimea, the Greil Mercs are based in Crimea and if you probably ask Ike where he's from, he'd say Tellius first and if you ask what part, he's say Crimea. He does fight for a foregin army though (the Laguz alliance), which I don't think any other lord in the series has done (taking Alm to be Zofian and Micaiah to be Danish).

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34 minutes ago, Jotari said:

He does fight for a foregin army though (the Laguz alliance), which I don't think any other lord in the series has done (taking Alm to be Zofian and Micaiah to be Danish).

There is Roy helping Etruria in the Western Isles (apparently he was supposed to become King of the Western Isles at some point originally), if you consider that as counting. Or Marth going to put down Lorenz's rebellion.

Though Ike's case is a different from the first two in that Ike, being a common mercenary of uncommon ability, is effectively just an officer in the forces of the Laguz Alliance, commanding but a few Mercenaries while Ranulf, Skrimir, and Tibarn command legions of Beasts and Hawks. Roy and Marth lead exclusively their home armies and remain royalty unassimilated into the Archanean/Etrurian ranks. Furthermore, both Marth and Roy break from their original allegiances, while Ike to the end of Part 3 continues fighting for his original cause.

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

We don't know if Ike has medallion resistance though. Ike never touches it. I'd be inclined to think due to his warrior nature, that he'd succumb like his father. The closest we get is him being able to channel Yune for the final strike to Ashera, but that isn't the same- Yune wasn't intentionally trying to berserk Ike there.

But we do know he has the potential to pass it down. It's in his genetic structure. That's what I'm saying.

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