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How important is abstinence?


JimmyBeans
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Hmm, as for my two cents, I personally don't think abstinence is important. pretty much for the same reasons that Slumber mentioned. Like, if abstinence is appealing to you, then go for it. If not? Eh, whatever. Just do whatever makes you comfortable, yeah? Although I'd if you'd be practicing abstinence, it may be wise to mention that to whomever your partner may be so that they won't get any wrong ideas, ahaha.

As far as marriage goes, again, what Slumber said. But I suppose that also depends on who you are. For me, while I don't really care for any of the religious aspects of it, and certainly don't need it to cement my feelings towards my partner, it kinda feels like a "promise" of being together to me, as cheesy as that may sound.

4 hours ago, John Denver Fan said:

Because I am a Christian, I think the premarital sex is wrong, because the parents may not be ready to have a child before marriage, so if you want to have children, then people should wait when they are married and ready to have a child to avoid being a bad parent, in fact what I said has been told in my family for many generations, going back to the 1770s.

This is just out of curiosity, but what about two people who are physically incapable of conception? Or a couple that don't want kids? Again, this is just me being curious, I'm not making rebuttals or anything.

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2 hours ago, SuperIb said:

This is just out of curiosity, but what about two people who are physically incapable of conception? Or a couple that don't want kids? Again, this is just me being curious, I'm not making rebuttals or anything.

If they can't, then I think they should screen for STDs before going forward. As for not wanting kids, there are lots of ways to prevent it, including more permanent ways. Birth control works nearly all the time, but when it doesn't, it could be dangerous.

My opinion is that I as a Christian think that I should be abstinent because being sexually active before marriage is an affront to my faith, and that anyone who believes as I do should follow that same logic.

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9 hours ago, eclipse said:

So, imagine this (don't do it, please): You're cutting chili peppers. Suddenly, a drop of sweat gets into your eye.  You instinctively rub your eyes.

That burning sensation is akin to what petroleum jelly does to me.  It was one degree down from the sensation of bile in a place where bile doesn't belong.

Last birth control I was on killed my emotions, to the point where suicide looked attractive.  No thank you.

This is familiar to me on a couple levels. I once had an incident involving a Carolina Reaper, then current holder of the world's hottest chilli title. Not fun.
Also, I had medication that made me suicidal. More for my asthma. But point is I can relate. Good luck with that.

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12 hours ago, eclipse said:

Last birth control I was on killed my emotions, to the point where suicide looked attractive.  No thank you.

That's understandable, however, there are more birth control methods than "the pill." I'm talking physical methods - male/female condoms, insertions such as femcaps and diaphragms - to name but a few that don't release hormones.

Edited by Raven
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22 hours ago, eclipse said:

So, imagine this (don't do it, please): You're cutting chili peppers. Suddenly, a drop of sweat gets into your eye.  You instinctively rub your eyes.

That burning sensation is akin to what petroleum jelly does to me.  It was one degree down from the sensation of bile in a place where bile doesn't belong.

...Oh...

About that. Using petroleum jelly lubricants with condoms is--not a good idea. Petroleum jelly reacts chemically with the rubber (that might be where the burning feeling is coming from). It also breaks down  the structural integrity of the rubber itself, and can cause the condom to fail! 

Only use water-based or silicon-based lubricants when using a condom.

They do make non-latex condoms and natural oils, for people with allergic reactions to the standard gels and rubbers. Nothing you would find in your regular pharmacy aisle, but poke into your local-area adult gift emporium or kink shop and someone should be able to point you in the right direction. They usually have a much better selection of product lines than the pharmacies.  

Different brands can cause different reactions. Like Trojan is the big-name brand that everyone carries because of advertising and name recognition--but lowkey--their product is kinda shit. (one time I thought it would be cool to try out their icy-hot line. The one with the warming and cooling gels that are supposed to provide extra sensation. Same thing happened to me; all I got was that chili-oil burning feeling)

Among the mainstream brands I personally recommend LifeStyles condoms. Don't know if you've tried those, but they're suppose to be good for people with allergies and sensitivities.   

Edited by Shoblongoo
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Case by case basis, is what I think. One couple can believe that marriage should be a required thing, another can believe that it's an unnecessary tradition like Ronnie. As long as somebody's not whoring around with everything that moves and using the resulting kids as bargaining tools or being a bad parent to them in general though, I really believe that kids can have happy lives without married parents.

I think if I was truly in love with someone I wouldn't mind sex before marriage, BUT I'd use birth control until I was ready for a kid, and likely I'd be married before I decide, okay, let's start a family.

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14 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

If they can't, then I think they should screen for STDs before going forward. As for not wanting kids, there are lots of ways to prevent it, including more permanent ways. Birth control works nearly all the time, but when it doesn't, it could be dangerous.

My opinion is that I as a Christian think that I should be abstinent because being sexually active before marriage is an affront to my faith, and that anyone who believes as I do should follow that same logic.

Oh, sorry, this wasn't a general question, but towards the person I quoted before. :p

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12 hours ago, Raven said:

That's understandable, however, there are more birth control methods than "the pill." I'm talking physical methods - male/female condoms, insertions such as femcaps and diaphragms - to name but a few that don't release hormones.

I'd have to research what those are made out of.  My body seems to think a bunch of non-poisonous things will kill me.

6 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

(that's long)

Can't have anything with oil, either.  Makes shopping for lip balm impossible.  Thanks for the info, though.

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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

 My body seems to think a bunch of non-poisonous things will kill me.

 

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Can't have anything with oil, either.  


...well shit. That's unfortunate.

Prophylactic allergies is a common enough problem though that I'd imagine there's quite a sizable market for accommodating products. So I'd still recommend doing a little bit of consumer research.

You really shouldn't be mixing anything oil-based with latex to begin with, and there are definitely other options. 

Edited by Shoblongoo
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I don't have a problem with abstinence when it's a personal decision.

However, preaching abstinence to others can cause harm.

- it rushes some people into marriage. This isn't to say that there aren't people who marry young and are happy - some of the happiest couples I know got together in their teens! But I've also heard from many people who felt they married too young as a result of abstinence-only education. It's not always disastrous - some couples have managed to work through their issues - but they have felt it made marriage harder than it might otherwise have been.

- abstinence-only education often accompanies a lack of knowledge about sex, consent and relationships. Women are told it's their wifely duty to always say yes to their husbands, for example. People aren't able to identify abuse when it's happening. People in bad marriages feel pressured to remain married.

- holding sex up on a pedestal (the kind of mindset that accompanies abstinence education) makes it really hard for some people to enjoy sex even after marriage. Sometimes it's because there's a sense of shame surrounding sex, and sometimes the idea that sex is supposed to be awesome and life-changing inhibits relaxing and can actually make sex pretty terrible. This happened to me to an extent and it's been even worse for friends of mine. 

- holding abstinence up as a golden standard vilifies single parents, couples who conceived unexpectedly, etc. Even if someone was married when they conceived - a good majority of my friends who are single parents were married when they conceived - they're still treated poorly by people who don't know their specific circumstances, because all people see is a parent who is currently single. 

So my answer to your question: It's not important at all. 

 

 

Edited by Res
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On 2/18/2018 at 1:07 AM, Dandy Druid said:

I don't consider abstinence a big deal. Having sex out of wedlock is fairly common, but we shouldn't pressure those who want to wait til marriage. Saving til marriage is cool too- it all depends on the person. Losing your virginity should be done on your own time, and if you're not mentally ready, then don't do it.

Now for the child aspect- I would say get married, but mainly for economical reasons.You don't need to get married to know you and your significant other love each other, but getting married for tax reasons/financial support may help with child raising. If one partner dies on the job and they're not married, their significant other will not receive any form of monetary compensation. Regardless if both parents are in the picture or not, ensuring the child's happiness is the priority. As long as the child is happy and is encourage to try many things to become a well-rounded individual. Plus, it's more of a social norm. Although I don't consider marriage a requirement to making a child happy, it is very much the norm for a child to have both of their parents married, and if the child ever talked about this, they may get teased by other classmates (depends on the area they live in as well). Not to mention the child's extended family would probably raise their eyebrows.

Although I think it was rude of your friend to say your opinion was rude because you were religious. It sounds like a form of gatekeeping; you don't need to have sex to have an opinion on abstinence.

Good point I wasn't thinking of that honestly.... Those benefits bring so much to the table and it goes along with my argument that the child is priority, and reducing any kind of unnecessary hardships for him/her would be worth the wait. I also agree now that abstinence itself ins't a big deal, and something I've learned on this thread is that it really inst immoral to have sex before marriage, but if you're not responsible about it you could be playing with fire.

But ya she tends to do that a lot, especially to me because she doesn't know a lot of nice religious people. But it doesn't matter to much, I know she didn't mean anything by it.

On 2/18/2018 at 1:59 AM, eclipse said:

Your friend was pretty rude.  That's hardly a reason to discount an opinion!

Much as I'd like to have safe sex, I can't do my part (birth control). That's why I'm going to wait until both parties are ready, whenever that may be.

Ya she tends to do that a lot. But on the bright side it made me think about the subject and I was able to come up with my own answer
 to why I believe what I believe, so I guess I'm grateful for it at this point.

On 2/18/2018 at 5:26 AM, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Hello.

So fellow abstinence... practicioner? Is that the word? Eh. Abstinence person here.

While I am religious for me it's never been as much about religion as it is a general feeling of ".... no" whenever it's brought up. To me it is a very valid way of thinking and your friend was very rude to say your opinion doesn't matter. There are very very few places where opinion doesn't matter and this is very much a matter of opinion. To be fair I absolutely do not want kids so that may play a part? I don't think so but I don't think in my case that they're mutually exclusive.

Ya it's kind of been the same way for me, I always just thought "no" because of how I was taught, but I wanted to know why I believe it, and why they teach it because I just felt like I was being a blind follower.

On 2/18/2018 at 5:31 AM, Shoblongoo said:

I personally don't see the appeal; just use condoms if you're that worried about unplanned  pregnancy. But whatever floats your boat. It's one of those things where as long as you're doing what feels right to you and aren't forcing your choices or your judgements on anyone else--it's all good.

No arguments against that. I guess if your responsible than it's fine, but don't condoms still risk pregnancy? I'm a virgin so my knowledge is limited but I have heard a lot of stories of condoms failing to do their job.

On 2/18/2018 at 7:03 AM, Darros said:

I think this conversation is largely missing the fact that not all sex is had with the intent of reproduction (both in terms of LGBT+ relationships and in heterosexuals who want to have sex without having a baby). What happens between two enthusiastically consenting adults is really their own business and certainly isn't immortal. Abstinence is a personal decision and it is completely okay for an individual to be abstinent and to look for abstinence in a partner. What is not completely okay is for people to be rude and judgemental and start throwing out name callings and talk about "you're immoral!" (And this goes both ways. Abstinent people are often looked down as prudes who "can't get laid". This isn't a one way problem.)

Ya your right it's not immoral and I cant argue about LGBT but I'm just saying that risking pregnancy when your not ready can be selfish when you could be affecting the success and happiness of a human life. And I get that 2 adults who together are thinking of each other, not a future child and it could be the farthest thing from their mind, but if people keep this way of thinking in their mind it could prevent more unplanned pregnancy's. But that's just my opinion and what I feel is right and proper, so it's not law and is flawedm but that can be said about any way of thinking.

On 2/18/2018 at 8:57 PM, Hylian Air Force said:

 

My opinion is that I as a Christian think that I should be abstinent because being sexually active before marriage is an affront to my faith, and that anyone who believes as I do should follow that same logic.

While me and you may be a different denomination one thing most Christian churches have in common is the morals that they teach to it's followers and preach to those not of the same faith, and I agree that members should follow that same logic and encourage and invite others to do so as well. For me it wasn't because I doubted the rule, or was trying to bend it in any way, I just wanted to know the why. The churches release these rules for specific reasons and my church does it so that we can have complete control over our lives and be happy an close to god. My original post is what I have come up with regarding the matter, and it has reinforced me faith and belief on that specific guideline. I just don't want to be ignorant and condemn people for taking a side I can't even see. I just think knowing the why helps us better explain why we believe in such things.

 

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50 minutes ago, JimmyBeans said:

No arguments against that. I guess if your responsible than it's fine, but don't condoms still risk pregnancy? I'm a virgin so my knowledge is limited but I have heard a lot of stories of condoms failing to do their job.

On paper...the success rate of a condom is only 98%.  In practice--a condom should work everytime its used, if used correctly. And the 2% failure rate can be attributed almost entirely to user error (this is why good sex education is important!). The three most common causes of condom failure and easy mistakes to avoid:

1)  Never use a condom with lubricants that can damage the rubber.  (see my previous posts)

2) If you live somewhere where it gets really cold in winter or really hot in summer, make sure you're storing your condoms somewhere with good heating and air conditioning. Condoms should always be stored around room temperature; exposure to extreme heat or cold will damage the rubber. Never store condoms in your car. The temperature inside a parked car can reach 104 degrees Fahrenheit on even a mild 70 degree day.

3) Never, ever, ever, ever use the same condom more than once. Some guys have the attitude that if they didn't climax it doesn't count as "used," and that it can be taken off and reapplied. Never do that. They are not designed to be reapplied and reused; if you do this, they will tear. 

Avoid these simple mistakes, and a condom should always do its job.  (and I daresay there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies if this information was available in high school level sex ed. curriculums, and we weren't leaving kids to figure it out on their own)

 

Edited by Shoblongoo
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31 minutes ago, JimmyBeans said:

Ya your right it's not immoral and I cant argue about LGBT but I'm just saying that risking pregnancy when your not ready can be selfish when you could be affecting the success and happiness of a human life. And I get that 2 adults who together are thinking of each other, not a future child and it could be the farthest thing from their mind, but if people keep this way of thinking in their mind it could prevent more unplanned pregnancy's. But that's just my opinion and what I feel is right and proper, so it's not law and is flawedm but that can be said about any way of thinking.

I don't want to be that guy, but certainly keeping the baby is a bit complicated. Abortion and the morning-after pill, opinions on it completely aside, are available options, and it's not like the two adults have to keep the child even if they do keep it to term. Unwanted children can be given up for adoption or to the foster system. I understand that those systems have varying degrees of success, but they aren't inherently bad systems, especially when keeping the newborn is infeasible or won't increase its quality of life in some situations.

Regardless, it comes back to what you feel once more. Abstinence absolutely, undeniably, reduces the risk of an unwanted pregnancy to zero (STIs as well!) and that is a major selling point for many people. What's important in sex education is communicating that fact without putting abstinence on a pedestal. That and emphasizing the importance of communication both in terms of consent and what two individually mutually want out of a relationship.

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5 hours ago, eclipse said:

I can answer this via PM, but I don't think it has much to do with abstinence!

GAH! Embarrassed! Clearly that was meant for another thread. I'm in two minds about asking you to delete this comment or leaving it as a monument to my ineptitude.

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  • 2 weeks later...
6 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

"In a marked departure from the previous administration, conservatives at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) are putting an emphasis on abstinence to reduce teen pregnancy rates."

Yes because all teens obviously take this kind of approach very seriously and never do the frick-frack anyways.

Seriously though, I believe it would be much more beneficial to teach teens how to have safe, protective sex. For one, that would also help reduce teen pregnancies (and seemingly more effectively). Two, that skill is universal and is applicable past high-school. And three, they may not learn how to engage in safe sexual practices if not taught the skills in school. Plus it's like, if you remove the comprehensive sex ed programs, all you're doing is taking valuable information away from the students. You aren't teaching them anything more, just less. If anything, we should only be adding on to the sex ed programs currently in place. Perhaps starting with what to do when somebody inevitably wants children, instead of just saying "don't impregnate/get pregnant". I think it would be a good idea to add lessons on this topic.

Anywho, rant over. And yes, "FFS" indeed.

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Yep.  FFS.

Parents who push abstinence education probably aren't telling their kids about other safe sex options.  Didn't they pay attention to how well-received "don't eat out of the cookie jar" was received when their kids were toddlers?  Yeah.

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Ultimately abstinence only education is ultimately more harm then any good since it fails to teach safe sex and how to properly and safely go about sex. Like the above said. In abstinence only states have higher teen pregnancies because no matter what, people are going to have sex. Also abstinence only sex ed classes don't teach other safe sex material like how to properly go about permission from your partner or how to have sex without accidentally harming your partner. 

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Honestly I don't get why teens are so into sex. Hormones, lol?  I guess its pretty common in America, but not where I live, so maybe that's why I find it odd. Sorry if I sound somewhat offensive.

 

Either way, as the previous posters mentioned, teaching safe sex is absolutely a must, otherwise the consequences likely make a teen's life extremely difficult and hard to deal with it.

Edited by Flee Fleet!
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