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Thoughts on Romances in Video Games?


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As with most forms of entertainment, love and romance appear plentifully in video games. But this doesn't mean it's always done right. 

I myself am referring mostly to non-dating sim fixed couples- such as Squall and Rinoa from Final Fantasy VIII. But you can bring up dating sim/dating sim-esque (ie FE supports) romances as well.

What are your thoughts on romances/couples in video games? Is the general rule the best romance in video games is no romance at all? Are you someone who can't help but feel for every couple? Are there general things that make some good and some bad? Particular favorites and or disliked relationships?

 

For myself, I tend to lean towards the no romance is best romance category. However, I do actually like at least one couple- Mercedes and Ingway from Odin Sphere. The relationship is very different in that the two hardly have any time together, but I liked it for some reason. I wanted to cry at one point.

 

On the other hand, I don't like things like SquallxRinoa. Precisely because Rinoa keeps trying to force Squall to love them, and even gets the other four playables to agree to help forcing this relationship to happen, and save Selphie this hurts them in my opinion. I get sometimes it takes effort to make relationships work, but if you need that much forcing, maybe it isn't the right thing (although of course, it does work out well for this duo).

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I personally enjoy Squall x Rinoa, but that isn't really relevant, especially since I'm only halfway through the game. 

I personally am a fan of romance in games, if done correctly. I really enjoyed watching Zidane and Garnet's relationship in FFIX, along with Aigis X MC in Persona 3, even if that is only really canon in the movies. 
Lloyd X Colette is another decent pairing, even if she isn't best girl in Tales of Symphonia. Lloyd is established as wanting to protect her, so it feels natural if you choose her (and she is the girl he gets paired with in another ending that isn't hers)
Fire Emblem has a few romances that feel natural as well, such as Franz and Amelia, Colm and Neimi, and, at least in my opinion, Forde and Eirika (all from Sacred Stones). And those show that you don't really need to show a lot of development on screen if your writing for what actually happens on screen is good enough.


Of course I might just enjoy watching romantic things, even if they are badly written. IDK

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For me, two criteria must be met (and this applies to all romances in entertainment, not just video games): I like the characters and the relationship must feel like it would work. Fei x Elly in Xenogears is the best couple in the Xeno series and maybe even one of the best couples in all of gaming. Another Xeno couple, Rex x Pyra/Mythra in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, felt a bit underdeveloped at times but because it met the two criteria i listed above, i still find myself supporting it quite a bit. A similar thing happens with Alm x Celica in SoV, Roy x Lilina in Binding Blade.....now that i think about it, a lot of canon FE romances feel underdeveloped at times. But most canon FE romances still fit my two criteria so it gets my seal of approval.  Gunvolt x Joule in the Azure Striker Gunvolt series is another couple i find myself supporting. It's not as pushed as the other two couples i've mentioned above but you get a sense of why Gunvolt loves Joule and Joule loves Gunvolt. Though Gunvolt x Joule kinda falls into a weird place. Because while it definitely meets my two criteria...

Spoiler

Inti Creates apparently wants Gunvolt to not be happy. Joule dies in the first game but her soul manages to live on inside Gunvolt, so the two live together for sometime. Then, in Gunvolt 2, Joule is merged with Mytyl, leaving Joule's status unknown. It's implied Joule is still alive somewhere deep inside Mytyl's consciousness but we'll have to wait for Gunvolt 3 to figure that out and it's pretty obvious it's gonna happen at some point because of that secret ending.

But then you've got couples that meet one criteria but not the other. In 7th Dragon III: Code VFD, there is implied romance between the player character and Mio. I like Mio but the thing about that is that, 7th Dragon III kinda plays like early Final Fantasy in how you create the party. Which means that everyone in the party is the player character. It really breaks my immersion when Mio talks to the player character as if all 9 party members are one person. So effectively, there's implied romance between 9 people and Mio and i just couldn't see it working out.

The other variant of that is when i don't like the characters but i can see the romance working out, but i've got no examples for this.

And then there are couples that don't meet both criteria. Sigurd X Deirdre in FE4 comes to mind. Sigurd is my least favorite Lord and i'm indifferent towards Deirdre. Not only that, but their relationship feels really forced and there was basically no development. Had the game not mentioned the timeskips, i would've assumed Sigurd and Deirdre got married overnight.

My criteria can also apply to dating sims/dating sim-esque games, even if it can fall into a weird place because of the nature of the games. An example would be the player character x Clorica in Rune Factory 4. Clorica is best girl and i can see the relationship working out because i have actual input so i can make sure that both sides are happy. On the flip side, you've got Peri x literally anyone in Fates because i do not trust Peri to not kill her lover. Tharja x literally anyone in Awakening also seems like it just wouldn't work (but it has a better chance of success than anyone stuck with Peri).

Edited by Armagon
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To be honest, why wouldn't there be any kind of romance? No matter what situation there is, if there is a guy and girl somehow, there's always shippers. So people will ship them and the writers will feel like doing this as well. Why? Cause its human. Most humans seek to find companionship. A guy and a girl, someone's hormones are gonna kick in. Not to mention that most video game protags tend to be teenagers, so even more likely to seek romance. 

I love Cloud and Tifa from FFVII. Its like, there's mention of romantic vibes with them, but they never say it out loud. As Tifa says, "Words aren't the only way to convey feelings." 

Emil and Marta from Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World is also nice. Starts off similar, with Emil wanting to protect her, but I like how both of them learn to get out of their comfort zone. Before it was Marta just projecting on Emil, but then Emil actually got upset at that and yelled at her, and then Marta started to actually look at Emil for real, falling for the Emil that is trying his best, not the Emil that is supposed to be some perfect knight. And for Emil... well she's pretty much the girl that was part of the reason that he started to have courage in the first place, so it makes sense that he would develop feelings for her. 

There are games that are like dating sims, like Persona 3-5. You, the player avatar, are the wielder of the Fool Arcana. And thus, you ultimately become a ladies man somehow. You talk to girls, and through conversations and situations, you get the girl to love you. You can even date them all at once. P3 gets away with this, but there's major spoilers if I reveal what happens at the end. P4 also gets away, but the girls all suspect it, only they blame themselves and try to deny any foul play (rather hypocritical to the game's story theme), and P5... well, you'll get beat up harshly, but not murdered because someone saves you in the end by spinning a web of lies.

My hope is that by Persona 6, they let you actually pair other people together. 

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

For me, two criteria must be met (and this applies to all romances in entertainment, not just video games): I like the characters and the relationship must feel like it would work.

This is actually a good criteria to be met, especially the last one. 

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I will discuss both fixed and non-fixed relationships (as in, relationships that are predetermined and those that aren't, respectively).

Some are inclined to believe that fixed are of higher quality than those that aren't, but...  I have a hard time finding many games that properly portray romance in general, which I think is the root of why many might detest it in video games.  Mind you, I've not had much personal experience in this regard, but talking to all the people I do and hearing the stories I hear, romance is not often as picture perfect as media might be inclined to depict it.

Love is about accepting the good and the bad in someone else and wanting to give yourself to them, but it almost always seems like they conveniently don't have to handle the bad parts of their partners and always give with an expectation of receiving.  It also can be quite contrived and can be seen from a mile away.  I hate that if there's a leading male and leading female, it's pretty much a given that they're gonna get together.  That really bugs me for a few reasons, not least of all the fact that it's overdone.  And for that reason, I would like to see both more homosexual relationships depicted (that aren't focused on being as titillating as possible) and simply platonic relationships between a leading male and leading lady, if indeed there is such a pair in whatever media would depict such a relationship.

Now, because so much romance in games is shameless smut, I do have this preference for having the options that we do in a few of the Fire Emblem games and various other games.  In fact, I think that being a game, we should get choices in these matters because the more input the player has for how the story turns out, the more video games progress from being simple mindless games to the kind of high art some want games to be.  Granted, I'm largely not a fan of "waifu/shipper culture", but I believe there's more merit in letting me decide who bonds with who than forcing my characters into a relationship precisely because the latter just makes it feel like I'm going through a movie with games thrown about in between "story moments".

This all being said...  There are some relationships that are of better quality.  Particularly those that actually explore the romance in the relationships, rather than just having it be "Oh, I'm so lovey dovey for you, let's kiss!" over and over again and again.  Or when it serves a greater purpose, like in the Wonder Woman movie (I can't think of any games like this off the top of my head).  And I think generally speaking, I've liked all of the romantic supports in the Gay Supports hacks for Fates and Awakening that I've seen; yes, that's fanmade content, but it's still content in a game.  I consider it as legitimate as any of the official stuff.

And even though it can be edgy nonsense, I take a little bit of guilty pleasure whenever there's a non-villainous character that turns their nose up at the notion of romance and suggest it's a bunch of loony.  I might not always agree with their reasoning, but I can find the same lovey-dovey nonsense you see in mainstream media as nauseating as they probably do, and for that I find them relatable enough.

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There are some romances I like but most of them tend to fall into the "there's a boy and a girl, so they must like each other" category. For example, in Bravely Second I really did not understand why everyone had to have a romance subplot. Really, the first video game romance I like that comes to my mind is Mathilda and Clive from SoV and they are already a couple at the start of the game. Then again, that's a problem in fictional media in general as well, so you can't really say it's a problem in games only.

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I'm not a huge fan of romance. But I think the characters need a certain 'connection'. They shouldn't either be forced into one, or make it seem like the only way for the plot to advanced. If it builds up, and at a certain point, (Maybe the Climax, or the ending.) The 'romance' can occur without being forced.

Lets put an example of a Hero protagonist and a female hero. Lets say they meet, and they occasionally joke around. They are good friends at this point. At some point, the relationship begins to unfold, where BOTH characters start to think more of the other. However, it is crucial that it needs to be BOTH sided. The most common thing in video game relationships is the interaction being 'One-Sided'. An example in Fire Emblem is Tharja. Tharja is obsessed with Robin, but Robin doesn't care. (Actually, if I remember, he finds it kinda creepy, until the S-Support? I haven't played Awakening in a while.)

It also extremely common in anime where the girl doesn't want to express her feelings, but loves the protagonist anyways. The protagonist, of course, either doesn't know or doesn't pay attention. (Dull... that's the word.) Again, that doesn't build a real 'connection' between the two, and makes them seemed like their relationship is 'forced'.

This can apply to video games, because you need a story to drive the game. (Like Final Fantasy and Fire Emblem.). And with gameplay elements (such as a conversation time or a support system), the two characters could build this 'connection', which would make the 'romance' part effective. 

To put it short, for a relationship to work within a game, you need time and connection, as well as have both characters bonded over time. (And building relationships shouldn't be one sided.)

But yknow, relationships aren't needed in a story. (It's just extra to 'tugged on those heartstrings'.)

 

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Romance is hard to do correctly, and I mean HARD.  I think most games would be best served without it.  One of the few that I like is Estelle and Joshua in the Trails series - it starts out as an idea in Estelle's head, and evolves, complete with awkwardness, envy, and self-consciousness.  Joshua's end fell a bit flat in the first game, though.

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4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

On the other hand, I don't like things like SquallxRinoa. Precisely because Rinoa keeps trying to force Squall to love them, and even gets the other four playables to agree to help forcing this relationship to happen, and save Selphie this hurts them in my opinion. I get sometimes it takes effort to make relationships work, but if you need that much forcing, maybe it isn't the right thing (although of course, it does work out well for this duo).

Spoiler, as someone said they're only half way through Final Fantasy VIII.

Spoiler

The thing about the SuallxRinoa thing, is that they're not just forcing the relationship. They're trying to force Squall to be more open a social overall. Because they like him and want to be friends with him, but he's emotionally repressed due to abandonment issues with his parents and sister leaving him as a young child. Of course you still can't strong arm people to be social and happy (and I wish you could, because I do have some friends that just hate themselves and I wish I could help them), but Squall never actually does get bullied into a relationship. The party's attempt to ship them fails (or, more accurately, only becomes the, very slight, first stepping stone), it's only when they get into the Do-or-die situations and Rinoa is comatized and kidnapped and stuck in space does he actually start to realize how much he's grown to care for her.

Final Fantasy VIII aside, I can't speak to many video game relationships that I actually like, but, in general, I still want them around. I wouldn't say no romance is a good romance, but I do think games (and well all media) should aspire to have more than just token relationship. If you're going to dedicate time to something, then actually make it part of the plot or character arc. That's why I prefer something like SigurdxDeirdre over MarthxShiida. As crazy fast and out of nowhere the former is, there's at least a reason it's happening narratively speaking. Unlike the latter where it's just the character needs to get hitched.

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

For me, two criteria must be met (and this applies to all romances in entertainment, not just video games): I like the characters and the relationship must feel like it would work. Fei x Elly in Xenogears is the best couple in the Xeno series and maybe even one of the best couples in all of gaming. Another Xeno couple, Rex x Pyra/Mythra in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, felt a bit underdeveloped at times but because it met the two criteria i listed above, i still find myself supporting it quite a bit. A similar thing happens with Alm x Celica in SoV, Roy x Lilina in Binding Blade.....now that i think about it, a lot of canon FE romances feel underdeveloped at times. But most canon FE romances still fit my two criteria so it gets my seal of approval.  Gunvolt x Joule in the Azure Striker Gunvolt series is another couple i find myself supporting. It's not as pushed as the other two couples i've mentioned above but you get a sense of why Gunvolt loves Joule and Joule loves Gunvolt. Though Gunvolt x Joule kinda falls into a weird place. Because while it definitely meets my two criteria...

I honestly don't see Alm and Celica working as a relationship. They haven't seen each other since they were prepubescent ten year olds (give or take a few years, I'm not bothered enough to go check the timeline for accuracy), and even then they only spent like a few months hanging out. What do either of them actually know about the other? Unless they literally haven't developed or changed at all in the past ten years, then they're practically strangers. They're both romantizising a very brief time they spend with each other when they were children. Any feelings they have for each other is a pure fantasy. Love with the idea of love. It's not impossible for them to like each other and have a functioning relationship as adults, but considering the first thing they did upon finall reuniting was to have a fight, then I predict a very argument filled relationship down the road.

Edited by Jotari
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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Romance is hard to do correctly, and I mean HARD.

This is why people claiming that KH3 is going to have a slightly more romantic depiction of Sora and Kairi worries me. Yes, the two are adorable and have been done fairly well up to this point, but they seem more like lifelong friends than soon-to-be-a-couple, in part because it's hard(at least for me) to imagine an ending scenario that isn't Sora, Kairi, and Riku all together - I mean, when you think about it, KH has almost always been about sets of 3, with Sora, Riku, and Kairi, then Ventus, Terra, and Aqua, then Roxas, Axel, and Xion, heck, even Sora, Donald, and Goofy. While you could argue for Kairi starting her own reverse harem, somehow I doubt that'll happen.

On Topic, mostly I'm neutral towards romance in games, depending on how much it's shoved down my throat.

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My opinion on romance in video games is the same as romance in all forms of entertainment - which is to say, I don't care/don't pay attention. However, when I do it is rarely done well. When the romance is between two side characters, it tends to become their only characteristic, and they become boring. And when the romance is between main characters, it often feels forced, and thus, uninteresting.

2 hours ago, Kahvi said:

There are some romances I like but most of them tend to fall into the "there's a boy and a girl, so they must like each other" category.

Also, this. Many times characters simply seem to end up together because, well, the story says so. And when this happens, it seems unrealistic and I become detached to the story.

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14 minutes ago, Rex Glacies said:

Also, this. Many times characters simply seem to end up together because, well, the story says so. And when this happens, it seems unrealistic and I become detached to the story.

Those kinds of story irritate me so much...

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I honestly don't see Alm and Celica working as a relationship. They haven't seen each other since they were prepubescent ten year olds (give or take a few years, I'm not bothered enough to go check the timeline for accuracy), and even then they only spent like a few months hanging out. What do either of them actually know about the other? Unless they literally haven't developed or changed at all in the past ten years, then they're practically strangers. They're both romantizising a very brief time they spend with each other when they were children. Any feelings they have for each other is a pure fantasy. Love with the idea of love. It's not impossible for them to like each other and have a functioning relationship as adults, but considering the first thing they did upon finall reuniting was to have a fight, then I predict a very argument filled relationship down the road.

It's definitely one of the more flawed romances in the series but i have to disagree with it not working as a relationship. While that seven year timeskip is definitely the biggest issue, i still got the feeling that they genuinely cared for each other. You say that the fact that they argued in their reunion suggests a very argument filled relationship in the future but i disagree. The thing about that argument was that it was a matter of the situation. Had Alm and Celica reunited under more peaceful circumstances, would they have still argued then? Celica didn't want Alm to die, that's why she argued with him to prevent him from going to war of course, this is Fire Emblem, so Celica would be written as if she were in the wrong because that's what this series does to female Lords but that's a discussion for another day.

While flawed, Alm x Celica still does things that can make people see why the two love each other. I know there'll be plenty of people that disagree with me but that's how i see it. It's way more than i can say for Sigurd x Deirdre. Even if i liked Sigurd, the game doesn't give any reasons as why the two should be together. The two literally fall in love with each other at first sight. But why? The game says they are in love but never shows us why. There's basically zero development and i can't see that relationship working out. Alm x Celica is underdeveloped too but, as mentioned before, i can see why both sides love each other and i can see it working out.

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2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

It's definitely one of the more flawed romances in the series but i have to disagree with it not working as a relationship. While that seven year timeskip is definitely the biggest issue, i still got the feeling that they genuinely cared for each other. You say that the fact that they argued in their reunion suggests a very argument filled relationship in the future but i disagree. The thing about that argument was that it was a matter of the situation. Had Alm and Celica reunited under more peaceful circumstances, would they have still argued then? Celica didn't want Alm to die, that's why she argued with him to prevent him from going to war of course, this is Fire Emblem, so Celica would be written as if she were in the wrong because that's what this series does to female Lords but that's a discussion for another day.

While flawed, Alm x Celica still does things that can make people see why the two love each other. I know there'll be plenty of people that disagree with me but that's how i see it. It's way more than i can say for Sigurd x Deirdre. Even if i liked Sigurd, the game doesn't give any reasons as why the two should be together. The two literally fall in love with each other at first sight. But why? The game says they are in love but never shows us why. There's basically zero development and i can't see that relationship working out. Alm x Celica is underdeveloped too but, as mentioned before, i can see why both sides love each other and i can see it working out.

Caring for each other isn't the entirety of a relationship. Boey and Celica both care for one another, that doesn't mean they'd work well as romantic partners. And once again, the thing they actually care about is a fabrication because they don't actually know each other. It's like someone loving a celebrity (only is mutual). What they love is an idealized image of a person, not an actual human being.

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I'm not a fan of couples that feel cookie cutter, like they were simply created to fit the 'guy meets beautiful, feisty/cold and mysterious girl with a mysterious/past' mold. If a game is to feature the average guy/girl couple, then I prefer such couples to have established backstories and gripping chemistry. Not very many canon guy/girl couples fit that criteria for me. Many can easily argue that the Fire Emblem Fates creators want Corrin and Azura to be canon, but Azura just fits the pre-requisite 'very beautiful female character with a very tragic past' role for me. I can not count how many books have featured that character type, let alone other sources of media. In addition to her being an exposition bot. So I'm not really a fan of the usual couples, and definitely not a fan of the 'here's a guy, here's a girl, they're canon' concept.

I think Cloud Strife and Tifa Lockhart from Final Fantasy VII work well as a romantic couple, as Tifa is a quiet, regal soul with a strong heart and doesn't feel like an everyday female character. Luke and Tear from Tales of the Abyss complement each other, as they help each other discover their greatest selves and neither feels like a cookie cutter character. I like Sora and Kairi from Kingdom Hearts. Link and Zelda. Anyone can defend for Corrin and Azura or any other male/female pairing, but I'm of the team that seriously wants more relationships between same-sex couples.

I loved Sorey and Mikleo from Tales of Zestiria, especially with the creators writing them as a couple. I adored Ludger and Julius from Tales of Xillia 2 being an affectionate couple, even moreso in the original Japanese version (and yep I know about them being brothers). 

I appreciate Niles and Rhajat being added as same-sex options in Fates, but wish Male Corrin could have his pick of any of the men. Mine would go for Arthur, Shigure or Xander. 

The usual guy/girl romances are kind of okay, but much better for me if the characters feel unique and aren't shoved in our faces as canon. If it were up to me, I'd love to see more same-sex romances, and/or more focus on friendship. Family themes.

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I overall really like FF8, but I agree that Rinoa's side of the romance in that game leaves a lot to be desired. I get why it works with Squall, as it's a pretty typical story of an antisocial asshole learning to open up to his loved ones, with Rinoa being the central "loved one". The pace at which he opens up and falls in love actually feels pretty natural. But on Rinoa's end it's just "What can I do to get Squall to love me, and how can I get his friends to bug him enough to go along with it?" From the moment they meet, Rinoa's pretty much trying to hook up with him.

For another FF example, I like Garnet and Zidane a bunch as a couple. They actually help each other a lot, and while Zidane can be a bit overly flirty, he does figure out throughout the game that he's mostly like that as a coping mechanism, and he doesn't realize that he actually loves Garnet until way into the second disc. Zidane is heavy emotional support for Garnet as she deals with all of her tragedies, and he's the only one she wants to see after Kuja does his thing at the end of disc 2. Garnet, meanwhile, is the one who gets Zidane to figure out who he really is when Garland mindflays him and he finds out that he's a weapon designed to destroy the world he loves. There's a lot going on both ways with these two as they both have to develop their feelings for each other rather than one developing while the other does the same thing for the whole game, so it's not quite as one sided as Squall and Rinoa. Tifa and Cloud isn't super compelling to me because it doesn't really come into focus until the end of the game even though I like Cloud and Tifa, and I don't really like Tidus and Yuna because I hate both of them as characters even though the game was pushing it for the whole game. Rosa and Cecil is fine, but it's pretty standard and underdeveloped, which is how a lot of FF4 feels as Square's first attempt at a story and character focused FF.

I also like Elly and Fei in Xenogears, like @Armagonmentioned. Their very first meeting being a really atypical one that leads to some more unique developments, though I don't really like the "It's destiny" narrative of it. But it's dictated by deities, so it has a bit more justification than the usual cases of "You're destined to love each other!".

I'm fine with romance in games. Even ones that aren't perfect like Squall and Rinoa I tend to enjoy a bit, so long as I like the characters and it makes sense. If it comes out of nowhere or I hate the characters, that's when I lose interest and could do without romance.

Edited by Slumber
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14 minutes ago, LordOTaco said:

Honestly I don't particularly care for them one way or another.  Though lets be honest FFXV is the best bromance out there.  

You DARE interrupt the greatness that is Gladiolus x every female character except his sister? BAN! :P:

Ahem. . .

That does remind me why I don't care for romance in general.  Most of the time, it's too much talking, and not enough showing.

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1 minute ago, eclipse said:

You DARE interrupt the greatness that is Gladiolus x every female character except his sister? BAN! :P:

Ahem. . .

That does remind me why I don't care for romance in general.  Most of the time, it's too much talking, and not enough showing.

Its funny because honestly I cared way more when

Spoiler

Prompto got thrown off the train by accident than when Lunafreya got killed.  Bros before hoes

But yes Gladio is so swoll he could get any chick he wanted

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11 hours ago, Kahvi said:

For example, in Bravely Second I really did not understand why everyone had to have a romance subplot.

How did I not remember Magnolia and mention her as being a bad romance? Her entire character in BS is built around her being "Love me Yew!", despite her prototype selves in the teaser trailer in BD (For the Sequel version in Japan) and the BS Ballad of the Three Cavaliers demo both making her out to be a much stronger female character. Her personality apart from Yew is very very lacking. Magnolia is supposed to be a Baal Buster, a moon person sent on a mission to stop evil monsters, but a la vache, more than the Baals themselves, which are already a bit undercooked in presence, Magnolia's actual importance is fairly minimal.

I also disliked the Vampire Castle scene where it turns out Edea's biggest mental insecurity is not having Ringabel around. Bravely Third might be built around Ringabel and Edea for better or worse though, and seeing how BS wraps up things with Tiz and Agnes, maybe they will bring back Yew and Magnolia and actually make them work better together this time.

Tiz and Agnes I'm okay with though. Even though I'd rather have Tiz for myself.

 

7 hours ago, Armagon said:

It's way more than i can say for Sigurd x Deirdre. Even if i liked Sigurd, the game doesn't give any reasons as why the two should be together.

This reminds me of when I tried to get into liking opera (the music is nice, but I couldn't get into the musical-esque and non-English lyrics aspects of it; ballet is beautful though). One of the two I saw was Turnadot- which the writer of died before he finished the story. He likely couldn't finish it because Timor, the male, seems only hormonally interested in Princess Turnadot, who does not want to be married because she fears the callousness of men. How to reconcile this after Timor is able to solve the three riddles he needs to answer correctly to be given Turnadot in marriage? Someone invented an ending where Turnadot does turn out to have feelings for Timor and they happily marry, but it isn't all that good really.

 

12 hours ago, FRZNHeir said:

Franz and Amelia, Colm and Neimi, and, at least in my opinion, Forde and Eirika (all from Sacred Stones). And those show that you don't really need to show a lot of development on screen if your writing for what actually happens on screen is good enough.

I share in liking this pairing. FranzxAmelia is good too, even if their support doesn't get that lovey- but to be fair, they're both a little young for that (although that didn't stand in the way of RolfxMist, but they grew up together).

That also reminds me that I like Leila and Matthew, and when I read IgrenexAstolfo, that might be on the better side of supports in FE6.

 

6 hours ago, Slumber said:

and I don't really like Tidus and Yuna because I hate both of them as characters even though the game was pushing it for the whole game. Rosa and Cecil is fine, but it's pretty standard and underdeveloped, which is how a lot of FF4 feels as Square's first attempt at a story and character focused FF.

Tidus and Yuna, well it isn't the worst, but I could have done without the 5 minutes of romance scenes they have, I forget when, but it's later in the game. After Zanarkand but before the invasion of Sin. Not to mention the infamous forced laugh. 

Rosa and Cecil is interesting in that both are a little older than usual for JRPG romances. Yet, as you point out, being the game where the figurative fat lady only began warming her voice on FF's greatness, it is underdeveloped.

 

11 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

My hope is that by Persona 6, they let you actually pair other people together. 

12 hours ago, Armagon said:

That would be a good direction to take things for RPGs that do that. Since it'd keep the core element, but not make the protag as singularly special and loved. It would further develop intragroup bonds overall. How would this work in the games where time is a commodity and technically, a scene between two characters who aren't the protag who you are playing as and whose time is a resource is being spent? Well they could just make up a little excuse like, "Character E wants to ask Protag about whether they should go on a date with Character F" and thus justify the time used as the time it takes to visit Character E, convince them, and help them with whatever else they need.

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30 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

That would be a good direction to take things for RPGs that do that. Since it'd keep the core element, but not make the protag as singularly special and loved. It would further develop intragroup bonds overall. How would this work in the games where time is a commodity and technically, a scene between two characters who aren't the protag who you are playing as and whose time is a resource is being spent? Well they could just make up a little excuse like, "Character E wants to ask Protag about whether they should go on a date with Character F" and thus justify the time used as the time it takes to visit Character E, convince them, and help them with whatever else they need.

Mhm. There could be some extra days spent where you can spend it to hook friends up. Not only that, but when the two are paired up, they can perform a fusion attack like we see the party members do in P4.

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16 hours ago, Slumber said:

For another FF example, I like Garnet and Zidane a bunch as a couple. They actually help each other a lot, and while Zidane can be a bit overly flirty, he does figure out throughout the game that he's mostly like that as a coping mechanism, and he doesn't realize that he actually loves Garnet until way into the second disc. Zidane is heavy emotional support for Garnet as she deals with all of her tragedies, and he's the only one she wants to see after Kuja does his thing at the end of disc 2. Garnet, meanwhile, is the one who gets Zidane to figure out who he really is when Garland mindflays him and he finds out that he's a weapon designed to destroy the world he loves. There's a lot going on both ways with these two as they both have to develop their feelings for each other rather than one developing while the other does the same thing for the whole game, so it's not quite as one sided as Squall and Rinoa.

That's one of the main reasons I truly enjoy FFIX, along with the development of Steiner and Beatrix's relationship (the beginnings of which are hilariously coincidental). FFIX knew how to treat it's characters, rarely making any sort of interaction, whether romantic or platonic, feel forced. I haven't played EVERY FF game yet, but of the ones I have played/are playing through, IX seems to have the best romantic development. 

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15 minutes ago, FRZNHeir said:

That's one of the main reasons I truly enjoy FFIX, along with the development of Steiner and Beatrix's relationship (the beginnings of which are hilariously coincidental). FFIX knew how to treat it's characters, rarely making any sort of interaction, whether romantic or platonic, feel forced. I haven't played EVERY FF game yet, but of the ones I have played/are playing through, IX seems to have the best romantic development. 

The whole deal with Eiko's letter is one of the most memorably bits of FFIX. The fact that it causes Steiner and Beatrix to realize they have feelings for each other only makes it funnier.

And yeah, as somebody who's played and beaten every FF besides XV(Been waiting for the PC version), FFIX is the best with the romance.

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The funny part about video game romance is how weirdly tough it is to write it, because by nature of the media, you need to make it 'grand" or "believable" and such when real life romance which become a writing basis for some, tend to be somewhat anything but.

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