Alice in Brexitland Mafia - Game Over

[Refa]

Don't want to lynch Weapons.  Kind of bothered by the fact that the only slot I'd be okay w/lynching outside of Arcanite/Eurykins is JB's slot.  Not sure about Eclipse, but I can't blame her for being demotivated subbing into a 25 page game w/a guilty.

[BBM]

> expecting me to read two cases/responses and do the followup work on it. gonna do arcanite first; responding to weapons will probably come in a few hours cuz I have to do other stuff

shinori it feels like since around 48 hours into D1 you've just been stating Refa is suspicious but have focused on looking at other peoples play (which is fair given thread context since then), so your case feels kind of outdated. i haven't been suspicious of refa for a while.

weapons I'm very confused by your logic. SB confirmed that there was a Mafia faction, and that Bard was not Mafia, so he confirmed that Riddler was not the Mafia faction. He also then confirmed that he would announce when a faction was eliminated, confirming that there was at least one other Riddler.

[eclipse]

3 minutes ago, Refa said:

Don't want to lynch Weapons.  Kind of bothered by the fact that the only slot I'd be okay w/lynching outside of Arcanite/Eurykins is JB's slot.  Not sure about Eclipse, but I can't blame her for being demotivated subbing into a 25 page game w/a guilty.

It's more like all the cool talking has come to a screeching halt because the one person who needs to be here and say something isn't present.  The entire game is waiting, and I just had the unfortunate luck of showing up at the wrong time.

I'm willing to wait for JB, since it sounds like he's busy, too.

[Shinori]

2 minutes ago, BBM said:

shinori it feels like since around 48 hours into D1 you've just been stating Refa is suspicious but have focused on looking at other peoples play (which is fair given thread context since then), so your case feels kind of outdated. i haven't been suspicious of refa for a while.

Is this to imply that he did much in the later half of day 1?  I don't remember him doing all that much for the last 24 hours of day 1 that much so saying that my read on him hasn't changed that much AFTER the first 48 hours would make A LOT OF SENSE.

Someone's around and posts looks bad for 48 hours.
Someone comments on it and says they scum read that person.
First person doesn't do much for the next 24 hours
It's logical to assume that the second person's read on the first person wouldn't really change that much.

The only factor that has any real TELL on Refa has been the flip + arcanite/Eury stuff.  I think his early day 1 was really bad and his mid day 1 wasn't anything better really.  Then moving into day 2 he's not even my top read at the moment which would mean my read on him HAS changed.

[BBM]

22 hours ago, Refa said:

Reread your content, I think it's mostly fine (also realized that "reasons beforehand" could be interpreted as other peoples' reasons which makes me feel like an idiot, and a lazy vote is less likely to come from second on the wagon) but I have a few questions.  Why do you think Arcanite's frustration at mine/Prims' votes is more likely to come from town?  Asking because Arcanite is starting to bug me again.  They have a lot more words than in the last game they played but it feels like they're actually pushing less.  I don't think having one scumread (me) for the majority of D1 is bad, but it didn't even feel like they were consistently pushing me after ED1.  This post's read on me seem overly self conscious (what did I do to warrant the case being dropped, and why is there no analysis of my later content) and it feels like the strongest case presented is Bard's, but it's...more based on disagreements. I should have stuck with my vote here, fuck me.  Also how do you (Omega, you specifically) feel about Arcanite casing Eury in a huge post but then putting you on her level because you're weird and confusing (post here for reference)?  I'm going to push the fuck out of Arcanite if Eury flips scum lol.

so I definitely agree with the bolded parts as stuff they did but other than the first sentence about them not pushing you I don't think it's necessarily scummy.

their play definitely is really self-conscious throughout the game but I feel like it's caused by them being new? like there are also a lot of places where they make reads and then say stuff like "but I'm new so maybe I'm wrong". i think it all stems from a lack of confidence and being unsure of how to play. my read is that it's because it's just their second game as opposed to because it's their first game as scum.

i don't really agree that they're pushing less? my memory of their first game was a lot of spam with very little content. here it's still kind of padded but it feels like they're trying to content more at least. i partially agree that the bard case is based on disagreements, because I don't think that's all of it; there's also stuff about him trying to skate by without giving content. and fwiw I think they were the first one to make that point after Bard's first post saying he didn't want to talk about Refa. the bit about arcanite casing omega at an equal level to eury for bad reasons is true but would only really be suspicious if they're buddies with eury and that doesn't seem likely anymore.

@shinori- fair on him not doing a lot near the end of D1 but he's been pretty active on D2? also yes he's not your top scumread anymore but it felt based on your content that it was more bc arcanite leapfrogged him than bc he actually seemed townier bc you kept mentioning him as a scumread.

[BBM]

tbf though my memory of kemono friends is basically just that there was a long RVS where everybody just spammed the fuck out of the game and then they blocked a ton of kills and caught all the scum mainly cuz of role stuff. so my memory of arcanite's content might be wrong

[Shinori]

My reads around the middle of day 1 were like:

Omega > Snike > Refa >>>> Bard >/= Prims.

EoD reads of day 1 were something like:

Omega > Arcanite > Refa  This wasn't stated but I was still pushing Omega the most and consolidated on Bard and I stated heavily how I disliked Arcanites EoD post.

After lynch and moving into day 2 my reads changced more to what they are now.

Arcanite >/= Eury > anyone else.  And some of my reads on other people are dependent on what arc/Eury flip as.  And since I believe at least one of them is scum, if not both of them. some of my current reads are also based off of that fact.  Like I truly believe Arc is Bard's buddy.  His play doesn't really make sense especially EoD 1 vote and his start of day 2 actions really rub me the wrong way in how he claimed.  Also I heavily doubt that role is town-sided and I really question what you feel about his role considering it matches to your theory of one of the scum team GAINING KILLS after a couple of days have passed.

A large portion of my reads are based off of Eury/Arc flips though and considering I don't think we end this day phase without lynching one of those two I think that's fairly logical.  And looking at associations I think Refa is potential to be Bard's buddy if Arcanite/Eury aren't.  I don't remember what he really said WRT Bard all that much but I know when it came to later in the day phase he never swapped over and was pushing Eury mostly the entire day.  So if Eury is scum I don't think there is any way he is her buddy.

So yeah, I am still leaning scum on Refa based on his actions in thread.  However assuming Eury flips scum and not Bard's buddy and Arcanite is Bard's buddy I think he's fairly clear.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

28 minutes ago, BBM said:

weapons I'm very confused by your logic. SB confirmed that there was a Mafia faction, and that Bard was not Mafia, so he confirmed that Riddler was not the Mafia faction. He also then confirmed that he would announce when a faction was eliminated, confirming that there was at least one other Riddler.

I took it to be a flavor thing. Like maybe "Mafia" does not exist, but a mafia faction exists and "Riddler" could be that faction. Especially since "Mafia" doesn't really fit the flavor of the game. I mean again I'm just being cautious and 2/2 seems very likely.

[Shinori]

I think I started rambling and may have repeated a few things in that post but you should get the idea.  Did I miss how you feel about Arcanite's claim BBM? @BBM

[Shinori]

SB did not confirm bard as "Not mafia" and he also did not confirm that riddler was not the mafia faction.  Me and Refa spoke about this at the start of day 2.  He left it very ambiguous.

[BBM]

23 hours ago, SB. said:

Bard is not Mafia. He’s a Riddler!

 

23 hours ago, Refa said:

Is Riddler the Mafia faction?

 

23 hours ago, SB. said:

There is a Mafia faction in this game.

i took that last quote, combined with the first one, to mean, "there is a separate Mafia faction", not "there is a Mafia faction and that faction may be the Riddlers"

i'm really not understanding where the ambiguity is here for you guys. this seems very cut and dry to me. if Riddler could be the Mafia faction, SB wouldn't have said "Bard is not Mafia. He's a Riddler." that was a clear statement, to me, that these were two different factions.

@SB. can you confirm this? Are Riddler and Mafia two separate factions?

[Shinori]

I quoted that last post from SB and he never responded to my question.

That's also what we are overall acting under the assumption that the riddler is not the mafia and there is still a mafia faction: However it is left ambiguous.  If the riddler faction is the "Mafia faction" then the last post by SB is true while the first post is still also true because he's not mafia, but a 'Riddler'.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Really it's the blue text vs red text more than anything that makes me think it's multifaction.

[Snike]

6 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Addressed the second paragraph above. I'm still not sure it's 2/2, but more out of caution than anything. The way I read SB's post was that he was saying Bard was not literally "Mafia", but that Riddler could be the mafia faction. I also doubt SB would just outright give away multiball like that.

Why is this strong? Does it not sound 3rd?

I should clarify, I wasn't talking to you as much as using your quote to describe Arcanite's role claim. It's too strong because it has multiple role abilities in a game where 1 x deathproof and one shot doctor roles exist. Even Bard, who is flipped scum, only had one role ability + a factional one. Just feels like too much power for a town role in a came that seems to be swingy

I'm not impressed with the response by Arcanite all the same, but again it goes back to what we're waiting on in this game: eury to show up.

On Mafia faction not being very clear: I think there could be a mafia faction flavored as mafia due to brexit shenanigans. However, I don't think we'll know for sure until we see one of its members flip.

@Jaybee When you show up, what color is your role name? Asking for science.

[Iris]

Day 2.4 - Votals
Eurykins (4): Omega, Prims, Via, Weapons
Arcanite (3): Shinori, Snike
Omega (1): eclipse

Not Voting: Arcanite, BBM, Eurykins, JB, Refa

You have ~48 hours left in the day.  With 13 alive, it takes 4 to lynch and 8 to hammer.

[SB.]

1 hour ago, BBM said:

Are Riddler and Mafia two separate factions?

Yes.

[eclipse]

. . .well then!

With that, the game is 9/2/2.  There's no way Bard's role PM makes sense without a teammate.

[eclipse]

I mean, it could be a three-man Riddler faction and mafia as a wolf, but I doubt that.

[Prims]

Arcanite's claim checks out, I think. Besides what BBM has been saying, the vig part doesn't sound like a fakeclaim. Lategame vig is probably an anti-snowball measure for town if crossfire never happens.

We should just lynch Eury imo.

[Refa]

##Vote: Eurykins

I don't have anything more to say.  Above seems reasonable enough WRT Arcanite.  JB can catch up during the night phase.

[Snike]

So you guys want to just go?

[BBM]

yeah I'm probably overthinking this Weapons/Bard thing. The flip is bad but a D1 bus isn't really a good strat for a 2 man team.

[Refa]

5 minutes ago, Snike said:

So you guys want to just go?

Personally, yeah, because I don't think a Eury response will change anything for me at this point.  Dunno what other people think.

[Percivalé]

yeah

[eclipse]

I really would like more associative reads (and for JB to actually post stuff), but something tells me I'm in the minority.  If you guys want to end it, you'll get no argument from me (but give a yell if you want me to move my vote RIGHT NOW).

Something else happened outside of the game, and I'm mad again.