Alice in Brexitland Mafia - Game Over

[Shinori]

2 minutes ago, Refa said:

No, I don't think you understand.  I'm not bothered by the townies part.  It's moreso that nothing about BBM's role confirms that it can happen on Day 1 or that it's separate from the factional kill.  I did misread how sure Arcanite was which definitely weakens my case, but that post is still what bothers me the most.

I don't think this argument makes it any stronger though, considering the "might" is the biggest word in Arcanite's post.  This could refer to 3 townies MIGHT die as well as it could refer to this MIGHT happen day 1.  Either way I feel it's nit picky.  If it's the post that bothers you the most then that's that but I dislike it.  Then let's look at it from a different angle:

Assuming you are scum reading Arcanite for her statement and you felt it was a slip of some sort then what do you take her statement to mean?  Do you feel that they are implying the day kill ability is usable at any time and on anyone?  Do you feel that Arcanite slipped and that's why it's scummy?  Or is this more of a gut feeling based off of tone?  Why does it look scummy to you and why do you feel that it's the worst post?

You just made a comment towards prims that you thought it was weird they didn't react to Prim's claim, is that bad in your opinion?  You said you weren't sure what to make of it but didn't state what you felt of it at the current moment.

[Prims]

as town I'd hope he'd stick around and say more since he seems to still be around. I don't guarantee he would do this as town though. this is not at all a strong read I just want him to post again!!

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Assuming you are scum reading Arcanite for her statement and you felt it was a slip of some sort then what do you take her statement to mean?  Do you feel that they are implying the day kill ability is usable at any time and on anyone?  Do you feel that Arcanite slipped and that's why it's scummy?  Or is this more of a gut feeling based off of tone?  Why does it look scummy to you and why do you feel that it's the worst post?

You just made a comment towards prims that you thought it was weird they didn't react to Prim's claim, is that bad in your opinion?  You said you weren't sure what to make of it but didn't state what you felt of it at the current moment.

Arcanite has never played scum before, so it reads as a botched attempt at blending in (especially considering the post doesn't contribute otherwise).  I thought she was sure that three townies would die, which read as scummy because how would Town!Arcanite be confident in that?  I did misread how confident Arcanite was, so I don't think the "three townies might die" thing is scummy anymore.  I still think the post reads as a botched attempt at blending in, and nothing else has bothered me so far.

I don't have any feelings towards Weapons.  Not reacting to BBM's claim isn't bad, it's just the only thing that stood out to me about his post.  Wouldn't have even mentioned it ordinarily, but wanted to get Prims' thoughts on the matter.

[Refa]

Agh, you're getting me mixed up on my Arcanite pronouns.

[Iris]

Day 1.1 - Votals
Arcanite (3): Refa, Via, Prims
Shinori (2): Arcanite, BBM
Walrein (2): Omega, Weapons
Prims (1): Bard
Refa (1): Shinori

Not Voting (4): Eurykins, Fenrir Aesir, Rapier, Walrein

You have ~67.5 hours left in the day.  With 13 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 9 to hammer.

[BBM]

my vote is already on Shinori but to signify it's not RVS anymore

##Unvote, ##Vote: Shinori

I agree with Via's vote. To add on, I don't like that he basically is just attacking Refa for asking me a bunch of questions and trying to see what my reaction is. What else was Refa supposed to do other than talk about stuff?

Arcanite is viewing the thread so I'll let him respond before commenting on the votes against him.

but Prims to clarify are you voting him due to what you initially said or are you sheeping Refa (or both)?

[Shinori]

2 minutes ago, BBM said:

I agree with Via's vote. To add on, I don't like that he basically is just attacking Refa for asking me a bunch of questions and trying to see what my reaction is. What else was Refa supposed to do other than talk about stuff?

This is ignoring my entire argument about his Arcanite vote?  Are you reading my posts?  I did not only attack Refa for asking a bunch of questions to you.  I only commented on ONE thing he asked you because it was bad, it's graspy and implies that he doesn't believe your claim, yet doesn't vote you over it.  I then commented on his misrep of Arcanite and the weak vote swap towards Arcanite that he made.

Hello?  Also this is interesting considering that Via unvoted me?  What about Via's vote do you agree with?  What about my argument towards Refa is false?  Do you feel like I'm grasping?  You're only argument is that:
"You agree with Via."   
           and 
"I'm just attacking refa for asking a bunch of questions."

So for one: You need to elaborate on the first point more, and the second is a bad misrep of my vote and my actions towards Refa.  There's only 3 pages in this game so if you need to reread over my posts please do so, most of my refa case doesn't even constitute him attacking you and is more based on his weak vote swap to Arcanite.

[Shinori]

Also both Arcanite and Weapons have been viewing the thread for the past hour with nothing so I dunno if you can count on a response any time soon.

[Arcanite]

1 hour ago, Prims said:

"hmmm what if we mislynch and three townies die! that would sure be funny!"

That's not what I said or meant, thank you very much. You make it sound so much worse tbh
Maybe I shouldn't have said that but I felt like it'd help understand all we really know about that whole thing which is... not much
I knew it wasn't really good content but I figured it'd at least get the ball rolling or a reaction or something 

That being said

47 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Especially since this says "might", Refa's wording seems to imply arcanite said 3 townies "Will" die which makes Arc's post look worse than it actually is.

I noticed that, and something else I thought was weird was how Refa sooner voted me than prims who made the original observation which is when they decided to make this "misread of how sure I am" that is said here

44 minutes ago, Refa said:

No, I don't think you understand.  I'm not bothered by the townies part.  It's moreso that nothing about BBM's role confirms that it can happen on Day 1 or that it's separate from the factional kill.  I did misread how sure Arcanite was which definitely weakens my case, but that post is still what bothers me the most.

Im sure you know that saying "will" instead of "might" makes me look worse. It almost seems like you were using prims' observation to then proceed to throw suspicion  by voting me and making this """""misread""""" AKA an attempt to make me look scummish

Frankly I think this misread thing is bull crap lol and honestly kinda scummy

 

 

Im only on page 2 right now so when I post this I'll take a look at page 3 

[Refa]

lol

[Shinori]

3 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Im only on page 2 right now so when I post this I'll take a look at page 3 

>_>  Also I felt like this entire post was just a longer more complex way of sheeping what I already said.

1 minute ago, Refa said:

lol

This is kind of my thoughts on that arcanite post.

[Percivalé]

hey sorry for vote hopping and disappearing from the discussion like that. to clarify i liked how shinori responded to me, i just needed something to go off of and i was excited to take the opportunity immediately. i didn't mean to come off like i was using prims as a way to add meat onto my vote for the sake of buddying him, was just more using it as an example--i was going to add onto that with shinori's read on refa as a result of the bbm role discussion but by the time i got to that point i was heavily distracted and forgot.

[Percivalé]

i will be back tomorrow

[Arcanite]

23 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Also both Arcanite and Weapons have been viewing the thread for the past hour with nothing so I dunno if you can count on a response any time soon.

I was doing other important things at my computer, so I had the thread sitting there until I was ready to say something

LOL

54 minutes ago, Refa said:

Agh, you're getting me mixed up on my Arcanite pronouns.

Well last time Eclipse said not to 

Quote

raise hell

about my gender, so I'll just say I prefer it/they or them but it really doesnt matter as long as you understand im a robot outside the context of this game
just to make things easy yknow?

20 minutes ago, Shinori said:

>_>  Also I felt like this entire post was just a longer more complex way of sheeping what I already said.

I wanted so say a little more than "Yeah I agree with Shinori"

 

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

unvoting for obvious reasons, being that my original vote wasnt legit and things are actually rolling now
I want to say too, Refa questioning BBM didn't really make me that suspicious of them, in fact the only thing that makes me suspect refa is their action towards me 
I don't really have any big scum reads right now (aside from Refa), I thought prims action towards me looked like legitimate town concern
Shinori doesnt look particularly scummy to me either, neither BBM or Propeller
There isnt much content to go off of just yet anyway so

I should also say that I find BBM's claim to be trustworthy, simply because I'm kind of unsure what scum would be trying to accomplish by saying something like that but maybe im just too inexperienced to even try thinking about it lol

[BBM]

1 hour ago, Shinori said:

This is ignoring my entire argument about his Arcanite vote?  Are you reading my posts?  I did not only attack Refa for asking a bunch of questions to you.  I only commented on ONE thing he asked you because it was bad, it's graspy and implies that he doesn't believe your claim, yet doesn't vote you over it.  I then commented on his misrep of Arcanite and the weak vote swap towards Arcanite that he made.

Hello?  Also this is interesting considering that Via unvoted me?  What about Via's vote do you agree with?  What about my argument towards Refa is false?  Do you feel like I'm grasping?  You're only argument is that:
"You agree with Via."   
           and 
"I'm just attacking refa for asking a bunch of questions."

So for one: You need to elaborate on the first point more, and the second is a bad misrep of my vote and my actions towards Refa.  There's only 3 pages in this game so if you need to reread over my posts please do so, most of my refa case doesn't even constitute him attacking you and is more based on his weak vote swap to Arcanite.

you  made  like  4 posts attacking Refa for his questions towards me and subsequent responses??? i purposely didn't talk about the arcanite stuff cuz I was waiting for him to post before commenting on the cases against him or your defence of him. and yes, you didn't actually vote Refa until the arcanite stuff but I felt that all your other posts attacking him seemed to be the major reason.

i also disliked that you kept saying that Refa's stuff about me was the scummiest thing in the thread to date, but didn't vote him because apparently it wasn't something scum!Refa would do? why not? and if that's the case then why did you end up just voting him anyways for the arcanite thing? why is that more suspicious or more indicative of scum!Refa?

rereading Via's vote it doesn't actually quite say what I thought it said. but essentially what I thought it said was that your questions just seem super over the top and trying to make something out of nothing. like they don't seem to be geared towards trying to understand his mindset like you claim so much as just to bombard him. i think this is also the case with your follow-up questions to his response about his arcanite vote.

fwiw though I did agree with your initial assessment of Refa's arcanite vote as being nitpicky. 

do you find Prims/Via's vote on arcanite suspicious or just Refa's? i know they didn't vote until after your refa vote but you haven't really talked about their arcanite votes at all.

my other thoughts about arcanite next post

[Shinori]

3 minutes ago, BBM said:

you  made  like  4 posts attacking Refa for his questions towards me and subsequent responses??? i purposely didn't talk about the arcanite stuff cuz I was waiting for him to post before commenting on the cases against him or your defence of him. and yes, you didn't actually vote Refa until the arcanite stuff but I felt that all your other posts attacking him seemed to be the major reason.

i also disliked that you kept saying that Refa's stuff about me was the scummiest thing in the thread to date, but didn't vote him because apparently it wasn't something scum!Refa would do? why not? and if that's the case then why did you end up just voting him anyways for the arcanite thing? why is that more suspicious or more indicative of scum!Refa?

rereading Via's vote it doesn't actually quite say what I thought it said. but essentially what I thought it said was that your questions just seem super over the top and trying to make something out of nothing. like they don't seem to be geared towards trying to understand his mindset like you claim so much as just to bombard him. i think this is also the case with your follow-up questions to his response about his arcanite vote.

fwiw though I did agree with your initial assessment of Refa's arcanite vote as being nitpicky. 

do you find Prims/Via's vote on arcanite suspicious or just Refa's? i know they didn't vote until after your refa vote but you haven't really talked about their arcanite votes at all.

my other thoughts about arcanite next post

1: The first paragraph seems to make it out that my entire case is based on those 4 posts?  I don't quite understand it.  Questioning someone for doing something scummy is common sense, the attack he made towards you was scummy imo BECAUSE he didn't vote you over it.  He just kinda half-assed said "Are you fake claiming" Which heavily implies he doesn't believe you but he doesn't do anything to follow up with this.  That's BAD.

2:  I could not understand at all why scum would initially make some weird comment WRT  his statement towards you.  Then I decided to take some of my own advice from the last game and chose to not just brush off something as obviously scummy as just 'too scummy to be scum'.  This coinciding with his Arcanite vote is what sparked me to vote him.

3:  Which questions are you referring to?  I'm not entirely positive what you are speaking of here.  And how are they focused towards not understanding his mindset?  Could you Elaborate on this?

4: If you feel that Refa's vote is nitpicky then how do you feel about his vote after he has stated more of a reasoning behind it?

5: No I don't find Prim's or Via's vote on Arcanite suspicious.  At most I find Prims vote switch OFF of Weapons suspicious.  And Via's voting process just makes me think of Classic Via voting process on Day 1 so I don't really see or feel anything wrong with it.

6: I don't know why I'm not in bed yet. I work in like 6 hours.

[BBM]

anyways arcanite's response to the pressure against them wasn't good but neither were the votes against them.

i'm not really sure why you're voting them via? is it just because of what prims said? refa's vote is nitpicky but eh I can see it as town misreading a bit and thinking they caught some kind of slip. i feel like prims's vote here is the worst just because I don't really know what he's going for? arcanite's post talking about my claim IS kind of filler but like... so what? it's RVS. it also bothers me a bit that he didn't vote for it until after refa did.

given that this is only arcanite's second game I think I don't really think a poor response to pressure is alignment indicative. i'm a bit frustrated that they're getting run up early actually because now the majority of their d1 is going to be about the initial votes against them and their initial response and so forth and i feel like it's going to be hard to get a grasp on his alignment from that

 

[Shinori]

What do you find more suspicious in Prims vote BBM?  His reasoning for voting Arcanite or his vote swap OFF of Weapons?  The second is what stands out to me a lot more.

[BBM]

8 minutes ago, Shinori said:

1: The first paragraph seems to make it out that my entire case is based on those 4 posts?  I don't quite understand it.  Questioning someone for doing something scummy is common sense, the attack he made towards you was scummy imo BECAUSE he didn't vote you over it.  He just kinda half-assed said "Are you fake claiming" Which heavily implies he doesn't believe you but he doesn't do anything to follow up with this.  That's BAD.

2:  I could not understand at all why scum would initially make some weird comment WRT  his statement towards you.  Then I decided to take some of my own advice from the last game and chose to not just brush off something as obviously scummy as just 'too scummy to be scum'.  This coinciding with his Arcanite vote is what sparked me to vote him.

3:  Which questions are you referring to?  I'm not entirely positive what you are speaking of here.  And how are they focused towards not understanding his mindset?  Could you Elaborate on this?

4: If you feel that Refa's vote is nitpicky then how do you feel about his vote after he has stated more of a reasoning behind it?

5: No I don't find Prim's or Via's vote on Arcanite suspicious.  At most I find Prims vote switch OFF of Weapons suspicious.  And Via's voting process just makes me think of Classic Via voting process on Day 1 so I don't really see or feel anything wrong with it.

6: I don't know why I'm not in bed yet. I work in like 6 hours.

1. idk it didn't really feel to me like he was attacking me or insinuating I was scum so much as just making a joke. to me it feels like your first few posts against Refa are a lot closer to what you're accusing Refa of because your questions are a lot more attacking and you directly say it's scummy but you don't vote until after his arcanite vote.

2. okay I guess

3. stuff like these:

What do you think are the chances of scum coming out and making a post like that during RVS?  What would have been a 'bad way' for BBM to react?  I'm just trying to get an idea around your train of thought here.  

2 hours ago, Shinori said:

Assuming you are scum reading Arcanite for her statement and you felt it was a slip of some sort then what do you take her statement to mean?  Do you feel that they are implying the day kill ability is usable at any time and on anyone?  Do you feel that Arcanite slipped and that's why it's scummy?  Or is this more of a gut feeling based off of tone?  Why does it look scummy to you and why do you feel that it's the worst post?

the questions in the first vote, like... it's RVS man, people just post stuff trying to get reactions bc there's nothing else to do; nobody goes into it looking for some specific type of reaction. questions in the second quote are better because the answers are not as obvious but I still feel like it's just throwing stuff at him.

4. it bothers me a bit that he realized his initial vote was a misread and then he spun it into something else. but that something else is also a plausible reason for a vote even if I don't think it'll be a fruitful one.

5. why is prims's switch off weapons more suspicious to you? i didn't even realize his weapons vote was serious. agree about via's vote but just would like a bit more clarification from him.

6. gives you 6 hours for mafia

[Shinori]

17 minutes ago, BBM said:

1. idk it didn't really feel to me like he was attacking me or insinuating I was scum so much as just making a joke. to me it feels like your first few posts against Refa are a lot closer to what you're accusing Refa of because your questions are a lot more attacking and you directly say it's scummy but you don't vote until after his arcanite vote.

2. okay I guess

3. stuff like these:

the questions in the first vote, like... it's RVS man, people just post stuff trying to get reactions bc there's nothing else to do; nobody goes into it looking for some specific type of reaction. questions in the second quote are better because the answers are not as obvious but I still feel like it's just throwing stuff at him.

4. it bothers me a bit that he realized his initial vote was a misread and then he spun it into something else. but that something else is also a plausible reason for a vote even if I don't think it'll be a fruitful one.

5. why is prims's switch off weapons more suspicious to you? i didn't even realize his weapons vote was serious. agree about via's vote but just would like a bit more clarification from him.

6. gives you 6 hours for mafia

1. He already stated it wasn't a joke though.  That was LITERALLY my first post towards him was asking if it was a joke.  So how can you brush it off saying "It was just him making a joke." when he stated it wasn't.  He specifically stated he was wanting to see your reaction.  The combination of him stating it wasn't a joke and that he was looking for a reaction from you implies that he thought there was good enough merit that you maybe lying.  I also did say it was bad before my arcanite vote.

3: It's interesting that you quote my questions focused towards Refa that specifically ask him about his read on you considering the post you quoted has a quote from Refa specifically stating he was looking for your reaction.  Are you not reading his or my posts properly? I don't mean to sound like a dick here but you are saying that he was obviously joking even while quoting a post that has him specifically stating it was a serious question/comment.  Quotes in the second part make him have to answer for his Arcanite vote that was already weak and nitpicky?  How is that just throwing things at him?  You even commented yourself that his Arcanite vote was nitpicky and bad.  So why is me trying to get his reasoning behind the vote bad?

4:  This is stupid because he only changed his reasoning or stated his reasoning for the Arcanite vote based on my questions and push towards him.  Yet you are saying that my push towards him is bad but that makes his reasoning for voting Arcanite fine?  Like if I didn't do anything he would have just there with his vote on Arcanite based on Arcanite's first post.

5: He seems to imply that his Weapons vote is serious and that he wants Weapons to respond but unvoted Weapons 30 minutes after voting him.  At the initial time of the unvote it may not seem that bad but after he has stated more posts WRT Weapons it raises suspicions on his Weapons unvote.

6:  

Spoiler

 

[Eurykins]

Oh, the game started while I was starting work today (closing shift), so I got to miss the fun RVS shinanegans, boo. :(

Gonna take a moment to read things, and should have a post incoming in a bit. After foods. 

[BBM]

1 hour ago, Shinori said:

1. He already stated it wasn't a joke though.  That was LITERALLY my first post towards him was asking if it was a joke.  So how can you brush it off saying "It was just him making a joke." when he stated it wasn't.  He specifically stated he was wanting to see your reaction.  The combination of him stating it wasn't a joke and that he was looking for a reaction from you implies that he thought there was good enough merit that you maybe lying.  I also did say it was bad before my arcanite vote.

3: It's interesting that you quote my questions focused towards Refa that specifically ask him about his read on you considering the post you quoted has a quote from Refa specifically stating he was looking for your reaction.  Are you not reading his or my posts properly? I don't mean to sound like a dick here but you are saying that he was obviously joking even while quoting a post that has him specifically stating it was a serious question/comment.  Quotes in the second part make him have to answer for his Arcanite vote that was already weak and nitpicky?  How is that just throwing things at him?  You even commented yourself that his Arcanite vote was nitpicky and bad.  So why is me trying to get his reasoning behind the vote bad?

4:  This is stupid because he only changed his reasoning or stated his reasoning for the Arcanite vote based on my questions and push towards him.  Yet you are saying that my push towards him is bad but that makes his reasoning for voting Arcanite fine?  Like if I didn't do anything he would have just there with his vote on Arcanite based on Arcanite's first post.

5: He seems to imply that his Weapons vote is serious and that he wants Weapons to respond but unvoted Weapons 30 minutes after voting him.  At the initial time of the unvote it may not seem that bad but after he has stated more posts WRT Weapons it raises suspicions on his Weapons unvote.

6:  

  Reveal hidden contents

 

1. yeah my bad idk why I said that it was a joke. that being said I still don't understand what you were looking for from him given that you really want him to be looking for a specific reaction. people just ask questions looking for stuff in RVS. that's what you're doing too but you were doing so aggressively that it bothers me. you keep talking about how you're not sure what refa was trying to do- I'm not sure what you're trying to do.

3. again you can look for a reaction without having a specific reaction in mind. it just seems like you're really attacking him for the sake of attacking him. you asked him like 5 questions about the arcanite vote!!! 

4. i don't disagree with your initial pressing and saying that refa's initial vote was bad. it's the post I quoted where you're just asking him like 5 questions that makes me uncomfortable. and even then I said that those questions were more okay than the initial ones about his vote on me.

5. yeah ok I've clearly misread a bunch of posts. i'm still not really sure why you find the weapons unvote suspicious if you like his arcanite vote though? i think these two things go together. him unvoting weapons is only really suspicious imo if you think that his arcanite vote is worse.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Prims

see what I just said above. I think rereading his Weapons vote it's stronger than the Arcanite one so it feels like he's just wagoning onto Arcanite for the sake of wagoning? I think that generally speaking putting pressure and creating wagons just out of RVS is the right thing to do, to get stuff going and create more insightful reactions. However I feel like doing it on newbies is kind of unfair because they're probably going to react badly. Also Prims hasn't done this much as town in the past. I remember because I've specifically voted him out of RVS for not purposely making wagons for reactions before and he was town.

still a bit uncomfortable with Shinori just because his play seems overly aggressive. but I did misread a bunch of stuff and I think this Prims vote is stronger.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

eh

I agree with Shinori's points, so I'm fine with his question volleys.  I thought Refa was a little jumpy at first in interrogating BBM and his role claim, but also thought he was just squeezing for information in an RVS make stuff happen type way. Looking back, I probably should've said something, but I haven't played in a while and forgot the value of just saying stuff. Also Prims would use Last Known Meta.

Refa's posts since then don't feel all that consistent though

7 hours ago, Refa said:

Was going to ask if there were any additional stipulations (e.g. they can only kill a specific character w/the daykill, some other requirements have to be met, is the daykill part of a specific member's role), but I guess SB wouldn't specify those either.  Do you know if it's scum in general or mafia specifically?

5 hours ago, Refa said:

I wanted to see how he'd react.  I think the claim is iffy but how BBM handled it makes more sense coming from town (including his reaction), so I didn't push any further.

god what happened to SF's quoting system

The first quote implies that he's asking to gain information (which is what I though initially), but in the second he asserts that he was looking for BBM's reaction. I'd think if he were town, he'd highlight more that he was intending both of these goals simultaneously. On top of this, I felt like it was pretty evident that SB wasn't going to relay more information, so I'm not sure what he was expecting out of a reaction.

BBM's roleclaim on its own I can't take as hard town or scum, so I'll mostly ignore that it happened when reading him. I have another point related to Refa and this, but it's kind of rolefishy and I'll save it for later if it becomes relevant.

5 hours ago, Refa said:

What bothers me more is that nothing BBM said confirmed that three townies would die upon a D1 mislynch.  It's either a bad assumption or scum.

##Unvote

##Vote: Arcanite

And I agree with the feel that this is reachy. I could still see it as being early day 1 mode gameplay though, and was a little suspicious of Arcanite's post in the first place, but I think the vote switch is a little strong. On Arcanite now, I think the way they're being adamant about suspicions on them is not particularly scummy. I think more posts from them will make things clearer, so not really invested in a pile on.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Refa

[BBM]

weapons what do you think of prims's vote against you?

your vote is good imo. tbh though more than any of Refa's specific posts or votes what kind of bothers me is just that his play/tone feels a bit lazy.

[BBM]

lazy isn't the right word. disinterested/aloof, maybe?