Features to Improve A Potential FE Warriors 2

[MrPerson0]

6 hours ago, Erren said:

So was Lissa, Cordelia, Caeda...

How is Caeda not important? She is Marth's canonical wife, and helped him quite a bit in the war.

Edited March 7, 2018 by MrPerson0

[thecrimsonflash]

13 hours ago, MrPerson0 said:

How is Caeda not important? She is Marth's canonical wife, and helped him quite a bit in the war.

aside from being playable and marth's wife, I don't recall her doing anything of note in the story. Recruitments don't count, as an individual soldier is meaningless in the context of a war, this puts her on the level of the little sisters and lissa in overall importance.

[Fabulously Olivier]

12 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

aside from being playable and marth's wife, I don't recall her doing anything of note in the story. Recruitments don't count, as an individual soldier is meaningless in the context of a war, this puts her on the level of the little sisters and lissa in overall importance.

Honestly, that isn't so much a reflection of Caeda as it is of Shadow Dragon as a whole. SD's story and character development is so barebones that the entire setting feels underwhelming and every character whose name isn't Marth, Minerva, or Gharnef leaves quite frankly no lasting impression whatsoever. 

SD desperately needed to be handled with the same attention to modern storytelling standards that was given to SoV.

[Ertrick36]

29 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

aside from being playable and marth's wife, I don't recall her doing anything of note in the story. Recruitments don't count, as an individual soldier is meaningless in the context of a war, this puts her on the level of the little sisters and lissa in overall importance.

Then by this definition, the only characters that are important in Shadow Dragon are Marth and a bunch of NPCs.  And Tiki, but only really because she has a more significant role in Awakening.

You have to go by different standards with Marth's games because it was a more primitive time for video game storytelling, and the DS games didn't really help with that at all.  Besides, she does have an impact even beyond recruitments; if you beat Shadow Dragon with her dead, the ending is completely different.  No other character besides obviously Marth has this kind of impact on the story.

[guedesbrawl]

Caeda got in because she's popular. She and tiki and MArth are SD's top 3.

 

Anyways, i think FEW2 needs to rework the WT;

 

1- WTA gives yellow gauge only for enemy's whiffed attacks. Trying to use your string or combos at best only gives the white gauge

2- Neutral cannot expose gauge by attacking the enemy. You need to wait the enemy miss.

3- WTD makes it so that the weak point gauge NEVEr appears.

 

Dual Strikes need to be retooled as well. Maybe making them cost 2 to 4 times more gauge to become available. I'd rather have the DS become whatever combo that character uses to open WPGs (so yes, C1 for Tomes and Mages, dunno what i'd do with tiki) so it forces you to play around your partner's weaknesses... like sluggishness or lack of range.

[HK Motendra]

On 3/7/2018 at 9:18 PM, guedesbrawl said:

Anyways, i think FEW2 needs to rework the WT;

 

1- WTA gives yellow gauge only for enemy's whiffed attacks. Trying to use your string or combos at best only gives the white gauge

2- Neutral cannot expose gauge by attacking the enemy. You need to wait the enemy miss.

3- WTD makes it so that the weak point gauge NEVEr appears.

These are false.

At WTA, the stagger gauge is always yellow, which can easily be forced out by the 4th standard combo string.

Neutral only does white and can still be forced out with a Strong IV attack.

WTD is the only situation where the stagger gauge can never be forced (keyword) out.

None of these apply to archers and mages, as they have their own gauge that forces it out, with which one being dependent on how much the gauge is filled. In all instances, however, the stagger gauge will appear within a window of time right after an enemy foe does a strong attack.  Dual strikes bypasses these conditions and forces it out upon hit. The only one I haven't accounted for is when the dual strike is also WTD

[guedesbrawl]

1 hour ago, Motendra said:

These are false.

At WTA, the stagger gauge is always yellow, which can easily be forced out by the 4th standard combo string.

Neutral only does white and can still be forced out with a Strong IV attack.

WTD is the only situation where the stagger gauge can never be forced (keyword) out.

None of these apply to archers and mages, as they have their own gauge that forces it out, with which one being dependent on how much the gauge is filled. In all instances, however, the stagger gauge will appear within a window of time right after an enemy foe does a strong attack.  Dual strikes bypasses these conditions and forces it out upon hit. The only one I haven't accounted for is when the dual strike is also WTD

*whoosh*

These are false because they are my suggestions...

[HK Motendra]

2 hours ago, guedesbrawl said:

*whoosh*

These are false because they are my suggestions...

Oh......

OH

WELL THEN

I'LL JUST SEE MYSELF OUTTA HERE

[Etrurian emperor]

Some villains would be nice. Fire emblem has a large cast of villains so there's no need to stick to the absolute bottom of the barrel by skipping everyone in favor of the black mage loser brigade. 

Also I think they should buff Wyvrens somewhat. They can be killed in seconds by both arrows and Falchions and considering neither of those are rare wyvrens end up as pathetic enemies and sub-par allies. 

[Folt]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Some villains would be nice. Fire emblem has a large cast of villains so there's no need to stick to the absolute bottom of the barrel by skipping everyone in favor of the black mage loser brigade. 

Also I think they should buff Wyvrens somewhat. They can be killed in seconds by both arrows and Falchions and considering neither of those are rare wyvrens end up as pathetic enemies and sub-par allies. 

There is no buff the Wyvern Riders need more than to their actual attack moves when we're playing as them. The best crowdclearing in the game can only carry them so far.

[Arthur97]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Some villains would be nice. Fire emblem has a large cast of villains so there's no need to stick to the absolute bottom of the barrel by skipping everyone in favor of the black mage loser brigade. 

Also I think they should buff Wyvrens somewhat. They can be killed in seconds by both arrows and Falchions and considering neither of those are rare wyvrens end up as pathetic enemies and sub-par allies. 

Iote's Shield can help with your allies.

[Aiddon]

Well, adding some damned enemy variety could definitely help. The problem with FE Warriors is (like I predicted before the game was even announced) that there is just too much overlap between FE and Warriors to create anything new out of it unlike with Hyrule Warriors being able to do something new due to the disparity between the two franchises.

The only thing I can see to really boost FE Warriors that fits is bringing in the branching class system in order to cut down on cloning. The game would still have issues though.

[Folt]

18 hours ago, Aiddon said:

Well, adding some damned enemy variety could definitely help. The problem with FE Warriors is (like I predicted before the game was even announced) that there is just too much overlap between FE and Warriors to create anything new out of it unlike with Hyrule Warriors being able to do something new due to the disparity between the two franchises.

The only thing I can see to really boost FE Warriors that fits is bringing in the branching class system in order to cut down on cloning. The game would still have issues though.

Enemy variety is actually pretty damn fine though...?

(Not to mention the ally variety.)

[Aiddon]

On 3/14/2018 at 12:59 AM, Folt said:

Enemy variety is actually pretty damn fine though...?

(Not to mention the ally variety.)

No it isn't, it's really boring actually. Part of this is because you can't actually translate a lot of FE gameplay over to a Warriors format without it being detrimental. The Captain units especially are all lazily designed, not even being close to what Hyrule Warriors did. The game as a whole is just lacking that special something that elevates it beyond the sum of its parts.

[Folt]

2 hours ago, Aiddon said:

No it isn't, it's really boring actually. Part of this is because you can't actually translate a lot of FE gameplay over to a Warriors format without it being detrimental. The Captain units especially are all lazily designed, not even being close to what Hyrule Warriors did. The game as a whole is just lacking that special something that elevates it beyond the sum of its parts.

It's pretty damn fine. You've got 5 generic infantry units of variety with WTA/D to neutral to power to speed to reach to projectiles to difference in stats which makes some harder for some units and easier for others and six generic uncommon units with different move speeds, different stats, and weaknesses to different slayers in exchange for significantly decreased comboability. The character enemies then take any and all of the above and add their own stats to this.

Even the generic mooks (AKA not the strong enemies) are also all different in ability from what they have WTA/D over to what kind of slayer they have to what stat they hit with their attacks to whether they have a projectile or not. In comparison, the Hyrule Warriors mooks could be changed to be the same thing and not have it matter at all.

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, Folt said:

It's pretty damn fine. You've got 5 generic infantry units of variety with WTA/D to neutral to power to speed to reach to projectiles to difference in stats which makes some harder for some units and easier for others and six generic uncommon units with different move speeds, different stats, and weaknesses to different slayers in exchange for significantly decreased comboability. The character enemies then take any and all of the above and add their own stats to this.

Even the generic mooks (AKA not the strong enemies) are also all different in ability from what they have WTA/D over to what kind of slayer they have to what stat they hit with their attacks to whether they have a projectile or not. In comparison, the Hyrule Warriors mooks could be changed to be the same thing and not have it matter at all.

To weigh in on this conversation, I think that enemy variety is fine right now, but the franchise has untapped potential for more. More weapon types on knights, cavalry, and fliers. Laguz to add in beasts and birds to the enemy pool. Dagger units. Healers (other than the generic reskinned mages that periodically heal). Faceless. Necrodragons. Etc. 

The franchise isn't all that limited as source material, even if it is no Dragon Quest in terms of enemy variety.

[r_n]

The SD DLC pack introduced 2 concepts I'd like to see better implemented to help spice things up in a future game

1. Sub missions that raise supports if you complete them. I thin kI've seen 3 or 4 of these, but I'd like them to be more widespread going forward. While they're not required, I find they help spice up the fight especially since they tend to appear while you're putting out fires elsewhere and the villagers wont last too long.

2. Enemies with effective weaponry. I've only seen like...2...of these. Maybe 3? And they only ever summon one unit. I'd like to see this concept become a little more common and not just limited to one (1) unit. Just to add a little more danger and variety to the maps. Also gives more use cases for using Iote's Shield, and that's nice. Enemies with Breaker weapons could also work.

Again not too common because then you just run into the issue of it being overbearing. All the archers everywhere can be kind of annoying, to put it another way.

As for a general purpose thing, I'd like to see dragon veins be used to change up the battlefield more. Add/take away environement chunks, affecting morale (like the ryoma battle), things like that. Something to be cognizant of and to add some pressure to making sure your forts and such are defended properly.

[Folt]

12 minutes ago, Etheus said:

To weigh in on this conversation, I think that enemy variety is fine right now, but the franchise has untapped potential for more. More weapon types on knights, cavalry, and fliers. Laguz to add in beasts and birds to the enemy pool. Dagger units. Healers (other than the generic reskinned mages that periodically heal). Faceless. Necrodragons. Etc. 

The franchise isn't all that limited as source material, even if it is no Dragon Quest in terms of enemy variety.

I don't think we're going to get this other than the Mage variant. There's a reason it is separate from the factional variants.

In fact, I don't think we'll see weapon variants on anything other than Cavalry (due to it only using one of their primary weapons; the rest use the weapon the class is generally known for and the more obscure ones like mounted mages can be repped by the characters moreso than a generic). On the other hand, giving Priests a scaled-down version of Linde's moveset and Thieves a scaled-down version of Olivia's moveset in the sequel could make them stand out more than they currently are (but then again, the Lizalfoses and Dinolfoses had pretty much the same moves and it doesn't look like that's going to change).

[Fabulously Olivier]

4 minutes ago, Folt said:

I don't think we're going to get this other than the Mage variant. There's a reason it is separate from the factional variants.

In fact, I don't think we'll see weapon variants on anything other than Cavalry (due to it only using one of their primary weapons; the rest use the weapon the class is generally known for and the more obscure ones like mounted mages can be repped by the characters moreso than a generic). On the other hand, giving Priests a scaled-down version of Linde's moveset and Thieves a scaled-down version of Olivia's moveset in the sequel could make them stand out more than they currently are (but then again, the Lizalfoses and Dinolfoses had pretty much the same moves and it doesn't look like that's going to change).

Agreed. At the end of the day, this is Omegaforce we're talking about. Cutting corners and recycling content are pretty much their modus operandi.

[r_n]

It will never happen because of how they implemented staves (which, long term, for the better to be sure), but I do kind of wish we had a crazy staff moveset. We have all kinds of crazy staves in the series that it'd be fun to fling around things. And we even have generic, non-thwacking, staff attacks thanks to heroes!

[Folt]

8 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Agreed. At the end of the day, this is Omegaforce we're talking about. Cutting corners and recycling content are pretty much their modus operandi.

Incidentally, I really like that Fire Emblem Warriors has actual unit variety on both the Ally and the Enemy side. You rarely got anything other than the standard Hyrule and Goron armies for generic allies in Hyrule Warriors and the Hylian and Goron Captains are underpowered compared to the others. While here, our army can actually have mounts and fliers and spellcasters that would be for sure enemy-only if this was Hyrule Warriors and I think that makes the battles much more interesting (and can add additional challenge depending on the allied unit types vs. the unit types the enemy are fielding).

[Fabulously Olivier]

6 minutes ago, Folt said:

Incidentally, I really like that Fire Emblem Warriors has actual unit variety on both the Ally and the Enemy side. You rarely got anything other than the standard Hyrule and Goron armies for generic allies in Hyrule Warriors and the Hylian and Goron Captains are underpowered compared to the others. While here, our army can actually have mounts and fliers and spellcasters that would be for sure enemy-only if this was Hyrule Warriors and I think that makes the battles much more interesting (and can add additional challenge depending on the allied unit types vs. the unit types the enemy are fielding).

This is also true. The weapon triangle is quite possibly the greatest single innovation the Warriors genre has seen in years. DW8 had a similar triangle of affinities, but it was more limited in that it really only impacted your character vs. enemy officers and usually amounted to you swapping to your secondary weapon. 

Where FEW really drops the ball is map variety. There aren't nearly as many unique maps as in DW or even HW. FEW is generally good at intelligently mixing up its maps with different enemy placements, objectives, and restrictions, but these can only go so far.

[Arthur97]

49 minutes ago, r_n said:

The SD DLC pack introduced 2 concepts I'd like to see better implemented to help spice things up in a future game

1. Sub missions that raise supports if you complete them. I thin kI've seen 3 or 4 of these, but I'd like them to be more widespread going forward. While they're not required, I find they help spice up the fight especially since they tend to appear while you're putting out fires elsewhere and the villagers wont last too long.

2. Enemies with effective weaponry. I've only seen like...2...of these. Maybe 3? And they only ever summon one unit. I'd like to see this concept become a little more common and not just limited to one (1) unit. Just to add a little more danger and variety to the maps. Also gives more use cases for using Iote's Shield, and that's nice. Enemies with Breaker weapons could also work.

Again not too common because then you just run into the issue of it being overbearing. All the archers everywhere can be kind of annoying, to put it another way.

As for a general purpose thing, I'd like to see dragon veins be used to change up the battlefield more. Add/take away environement chunks, affecting morale (like the ryoma battle), things like that. Something to be cognizant of and to add some pressure to making sure your forts and such are defended properly.

1 was implemented throughout the story mode.

[Folt]

3 minutes ago, Etheus said:

This is also true. The weapon triangle is quite possibly the greatest single innovation the Warriors genre has seen in years. DW8 had a similar triangle of affinities, but it was more limited in that it really only impacted your character vs. enemy officers and usually amounted to you swapping to your secondary weapon. 

Where FEW really drops the ball is map variety. There aren't nearly as many unique maps as in DW or even HW. FEW is generally good at intelligently mixing up its maps with different enemy placements, objectives, and restrictions, but these can only go so far.

I bet that if Fire Emblem Warriors 2 adds the ability for certain characters to get secondary weapons (by switching movesets), the main drawback will be that they won't get a prf to go with it. (So their main moveset would have the prf weapon that gives the character the usual prf weapon advantages.)

Hyrule Warriors I believe had 14 unique maps (with two more added in the Legends expansion). Fire Emblem Warriors by contrast sits at about 13 unique maps which is less, but not by a significant amount.

[r_n]

4 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

1 was implemented throughout the story mode.

I'm specifically talking about history mode, sorry I didn't make this clear.