Tempest Trials: Invisible Ties!

[Rafiel's Aria]

Aaaaaand Ursula maxed out HM. It was fun using her. I had forgotten how much I liked her. She was my Veronica-slayer in the first TT because Desperation and Horse Buffs solved all my problems. Ended up replacing her with LA!Lilina with Gronnblade+ because I'm not finished having fun with horse buffs. Maybe I'll dedicate week 1 of the Tempest to grinding horses and then switch to other units next week... I have so many horses who could use the love... I'll probably use Olwen once Brave Lyn maxes out HM.

I ended up pulling another Helpful!Chrom from his banner. This one turned out to be +DEF -HP, so I took it. He's scary tanky.... 40 DEF to 45 when injured to 51 with horse buffs. Like dang. And that's not even in the Tempest. 

[Cute Chao]

1 hour ago, Hawk King said:

One run of Lunatic-7 gives more than double the HM of a run of Lunatic-5. So even if you have to use a unit with capped HM, Lunatic-7 will be more efficient from that standpoint.

You also get more points even if you go all the way to your 4th team so Lunatic-7 in more efficient from a stamina standpoint as well.

If I am playing manually I always try to do Lunatic-7. It's only when I am doing other things (or just don't feel like thinking) that I will do auto-battles on Lunatic-5.

I used to run Lunatic 7 all the time but I found it boring and too grindy, since I can only use the same units.

I'm aware Lunatic 7 is more efficient, but if you find it boring or too difficult and it wears you down, then it's better to try a different tactic, which is what I was suggesting to the above user, who is struggling.

For me, Lunatic 5 lets me use different teams, so I find it more fun. I'm also gaining feathers and SP from units I don't use as much, so it's better in that respect, too :) It also goes quicker from a time perspective, so it's more fun to run in smaller chunks ^.^

[sdgj1994]

1 hour ago, Cute Chao said:

Are you running at the top difficulty? I used to struggle with different teams for that, and it got boring and repetitive once Reinhardt and Xander (the only two I seem to be able to do it with) capped HM. Nowadays, I run Lunatic 5 (occasionally 7 for the bonus rounds but not always) and just make my goal 8k. It's easily doable, leaves you with leftover stamina if you want to do something else (not much, mind) and gets you all of the rewards.

I'm not the best at this game, and I like to use the units I like (don't we all), so I hope this helps in some way. 

I usually do Lunatic 5. I thought that because Gerome is a free 40% bonus unit then getting all the rewards for this and reaching 100k would be a breeze. But it won’t be if it continues to be aggravating. Maybe once I get 5* Gerome my team won’t be forced to field a liability in his 4* variant.

What I might do in the future for this is do Lunatic 5 twice for the bonus points, then drop to Hard 5 if things get awry.

[Cute Chao]

6 minutes ago, sdgj1994 said:

I usually do Lunatic 5. I thought that because Gerome is a free 40% bonus unit then getting all the rewards for this and reaching 100k would be a breeze. But it won’t be if it continues to be aggravating. Maybe once I get 5* Gerome my team won’t be forced to field a liability in his 4* variant.

What I might do in the future for this is do Lunatic 5 twice for the bonus points, then drop to Hard 5 if things get awry.

That's definitely another idea :)

I find Grima is a difficult one to face. Xander and M!Morgan struggle to take him down in Lunatic 7 because of the fact he targets the lower out of def/res and he gets a double attack due to his B skill, which M!Morgan can't avoid.

But yup, whatever works to keep it fun, do that :) I currently do Lunatic 7 and then drop to Lunatic 5. I run a team of axe user, lance user, sword user, ranged unit - with the first three with breakers for their opposing weapons (apart from the sword user who is a falchion user with renewal). If you're able to do that, it might work, too. It keeps Lunatic 5 relatively simple for me... although the ranged is more useful if it's a bow user with high res.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Cute Chao

[Usana]

Well today's runs went MUCH better. Haven't seen Miss Thani once and in general just fewer problems all around. Part of that might be finally bothering to give my +DEF 4*+10(turns out I had a couple sitting around I wasn't using for anything) a better special in Glowing Ember -> Bonfire(not quite enough SP yet). Also Ephraim finally got enough SP for Galeforce(Even 750 isn't a lot for Legendary+Lance Valor+Weekend bonus).

The only real issue I have ran into is some of the maps being horse unfriendly like Anacybele mentioned. On one run I ended up with a C time due to how much positioning shenanigans I had to pull to get my team all the way through. Kinda funny that my horse team is having a harder time making the time score than Armor team was in any previous TT. Horse team does seem to do surprisingly well on Lunatic 5 though. I expected them to die horribly, but they made it to the end and murdered Grima. Probably helps that both Eirika and Chrom can nuke him.

[Humanoid]

I summoned on my second account which lacked a 40% bonus unit and got a +Def -Spd Horse Chrom after 30-odd orbs, stoked with that. Bonus Ninian too, though I have a better one already. I then took him at level one to the Lunatic 5 TT, where he managed to snipe kills now and then thanks to the lovely TT bonuses. He even managed to finish off Grima, dealing 53 damage to him while being level 5 against a level 35. Certainly impressed me.

[Arcanite]

9 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Because she's your "it" girl. Or rather, I guess she was until you discarded her in favor of running Nino into the ground so hard that now she's going to die before either Lugh or Raigh are born

I like Oboro as a character, i like Nino because she's good
Ive not played either of their games though

Either way, Caeda functions a lot better on a flier team than on her own, and in TT running emblem teams I find is uh... not always reliable, at least to me personally

[Reddazrael]

6 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

I summoned on my second account which lacked a 40% bonus unit and got a +Def -Spd Horse Chrom after 30-odd orbs, stoked with that. Bonus Ninian too, though I have a better one already. I then took him at level one to the Lunatic 5 TT, where he managed to snipe kills now and then thanks to the lovely TT bonuses. He even managed to finish off Grima, dealing 53 damage to him while being level 5 against a level 35. Certainly impressed me.

That's awesome! At the same time, though, it doesn't surprise me. My +ATK / -RES E!Chrom did Grima in on a single hit of 105 damage with his special (Bonfire) activated. His base damage would have been 82x2. E!Chrom has been my Grima-killer every single time I've run the map on Lunatic 5. He's brutal. Haven't run Lunatic 7 yet because I'm a timid creature but I suppose I'll have to take the plunge at some point.

[Ice Dragon]

3 hours ago, Hawk King said:

I suppose my biggest issue with it right now is the inconsistency it has with it's own criteria. My personal dislike for it comes from the fact that is based entirely on how well the units are able to kill things with a heavy emphasis on the player phase.

At the end of the day, the ability to kill things in one round of combat is the most important thing in the Arena, but support options to help allies kill things and enemy-phase performance are certainly considered.

Dancers are universally ranked at at least 9.0 for their utility, even if they have poor combat performance. Ephraim ranks 9.5 over Legendary Ephraim largely due to his ability to give Hone Atk 3 from his weapon. Delthea and Linde, as mentioned in the most recent update, did not drop a tier with most of the other blue tome users in part because they provide buffs from Dark Aura. Est floats at 9.5 over Hinoka's 9.0 because she can provide Ploy support (and is therefore very similar to normal Ephraim).

Mixed phase performance allows Ayra to land at 10.0 over Alm at 9.5 despite Alm having by far and away the best player phase among infantry swords. Legendary Ike (9.5), Ike (9.0), and all of the infantry dragons (9.0-9.5) all place where they are due to their strong enemy phase.

The greater focus on player phase is due to the fact that player phase units simply have more tools at their disposal to improve their performance and aren't always forced to take hits like enemy-phase units. Heck, even mobility is considered to some degree because the introduction of trench tiles dropped high-tier player-phase melee cavalry units at least a tier.

It might not be perfect (and they have been known to make corrections, such as some of the placements of staff users after the staff buff), but it's still by far the best tier list we have.

[Vaximillian]

10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It might not be perfect (and they have been known to make corrections, such as some of the placements of staff users after the staff buff), but it's still by far the best tier list we have.

You’re talking about the Gamepedia list here, right? I don’t have a horse in this race, so to speak, but what’s your opinion on the Gamepress list? Why is it worse than Gamepedia’s and how can it be improved?

[mampfoid]

Running Gerome instead of Minerva on team 1 along F!Morgan, Valter and Caeda doesn't work too well so far. 

He profits from Caedas Fortify and CD3 seal and doesn't take much damage from physical melee units. His job would be to take out blue treats fast, also archers in some cases, but he is too slow to double anyone. Perhaps he would work better on another team. 

[silverserpent]

Got my Res Ploy seal, Gerome...you'll have to wait til I get off work tomorrow...

[Anacybele]

I decided to try lunatic 7 one more time and I actually managed to do it with just one team. I guess the first time I just had generally unlucky matchups. I'm still reluctant to try it multiple times though...

I'm running male Morgan, his dad Frederick, horse Chrom, and Azura. I want to use Gerome in place of Frederick later though.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Anacybele

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Vaximillian said:

You’re talking about the Gamepedia list here, right? I don’t have a horse in this race, so to speak, but what’s your opinion on the Gamepress list? Why is it worse than Gamepedia’s and how can it be improved?

I don't have too much time right now to go through it all, but I've been reading a few of the explanations for some of the units that I think are mis-tiered. I want to try to get through all of the write-ups at some point because some of the points are at least interesting to consider, even if I find them outdated, suboptimal, or mistaken.

Winter Chrom's write-up in particular strikes me as odd because it specifically cites his low Spd making it "harder to recommend Bold or Vengeful Fighter" over Wary Fighter despite any Bold Fighter unit wanting to have as low of Spd as possible in order to put those points into other stats. This might, however, have been from before the implementation of Armored Boots, though, so mobility may have been a concern for his use as a player-phase unit, but I otherwise see no reason to put Winter Chrom as not in the same tier as regular Hector.

Effie's write-up also looks like it was written almost a year ago, and I think both Effie and Valentine Eliwood should be bumped up a tier.

There's, of course, also Est, who completely lacks a write-up and is placed in Tier 3 when she by all accounts should be at least as high as Hinoka. Oliver and Robin (M) are in a similar situation where I don't think Robin's lead in Spd or Def is enough to offset Oliver's massive Res stat and Ploy potential.

Staff users are all over the place between the two tier lists, and Gamepress's list doesn't appear to have any write-ups for them. It looks like Gamepress prioritizes the Atk stat (and whatever the hell Azama does to get that high), probably for greater healing (I don't know why when Rehabilitate+ and Recover+ heal stupidly massive amounts of HP regardless), whereas Gamepedia's prioritizes combat effectiveness.

I'll look more in-depth later, but you can typically expect me to lean towards Gamepedia's ratings.

 

And there's also the gripe that Gamepress's rating criteria page is organized as a mess containing both rating criteria and factors that are considered for rating, which are two different things.

[Punished Dayni]

Donnel and Olivia finally got to S-Rank. If Inigo's in the next Legendary banner, hopefully he'll finally show up.

Also surprising, I don't recall needing to get a second team in at all. 12 days left, I might still need to by the end but if there's one thing about the last few TTs, I've not needed help from a second team too often (though sadly more than I should have for the Valentine's TT).

[Anacybele]

I decided to make things a bit easier by giving Chrom the Heavy Blade seal (though it still needs enhanced one more time) and Morgan the Hone Atk seal (that one needs enhanced one more time too...). Been giving them more skills too. And it is a bit easier now! Chrom can heal the Fury damage faster.

[mampfoid]

I pimped my Gerome a little bit with QR2, Bonfire and Close Def Seal. With Fortify Fliers he arrives to 55 DEF on EP. Too bad he doesn't have Close Defense on A instead of Fortress Defense, it would give him additional 1 DEF and 3 ATK. A refinement of his Axe additional 4 DEF. 

If he evades magic damage, archers and Ruby's, he finishes the 7th map with full health. 

/Edit: 37k, enough for today. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by mampfoid

[Hawk King]

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Dancers are universally ranked at at least 9.0 for their utility, even if they have poor combat performance.

Every single dancer is in the S- tier (9.0) despite the fact that it states "Each color is evaluated on its own. A 9.5 rating in Red is not the same as 9.5 in Green." This is a pretty big coincidence considering each color is evaluated separately. All of the melee dancers have units of their type above them for their superior offensive/defensive capabilities, which is rightfully so. The ranged dancers, however, are all in the highest tier for their weapon type despite there being units who are just as superior to them as there are for their melee counterparts. PA!Olivia is even in her very own tier, and Sothe is below her in the same tier as Takumi and Sakura?

 

The healer list is quite awful IMO. There is way too big of a gap between the top and bottom. 

6 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Heck, even mobility is considered to some degree because the introduction of trench tiles dropped high-tier player-phase melee cavalry units at least a tier.

Yet the Cavalry healers are way at the top. The funniest part is that when you consider horse buffs, Elise moves up a tier, but Pris and Clarine stay put. And actually, all of the Emblem Buff lists have the same weird inconsistency.

 

Aside from these minor issues though, I think it pretty accurate. I have certainly seen much worse.

[Ice Dragon]

19 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Every single dancer is in the S- tier (9.0) despite the fact that it states "Each color is evaluated on its own. A 9.5 rating in Red is not the same as 9.5 in Green." This is a pretty big coincidence considering each color is evaluated separately. All of the melee dancers have units of their type above them for their superior offensive/defensive capabilities, which is rightfully so. The ranged dancers, however, are all in the highest tier for their weapon type despite there being units who are just as superior to them as there are for their melee counterparts. PA!Olivia is even in her very own tier, and Sothe is below her in the same tier as Takumi and Sakura?

The actual rating of 9.0 being the same for all dancers is definitely coincidence. But what this actually means is that all dancers are rated extremely well within their colors despite significantly inferior combat performance as other same-color units in their tier.

I don't see the problem with ranged dancers being at the top of their weapon type because all weapon types of the same color are still compared against each other.

If Inigo places the same as Performing Arts Azura, which he does, Performing Arts Azura places the same as Minerva, which she does, and Minerva places above Nino, which she does, then Inigo should naturally place above Nino.

While Minerva is clearly superior to Azura in combat performance, the amount by which she is superior is being argued to be the worth of the ability to dance. What this means, then, is that while Nino is superior to Inigo in combat, Nino is less superior to Inigo in combat than Minerva is superior to Azura. And I don't see a problem with that.

 

41 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

The healer list is quite awful IMO. There is way too big of a gap between the top and bottom. 

That's because they are also being compared against bows and daggers and not just among themselves.

 

42 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Yet the Cavalry healers are way at the top. The funniest part is that when you consider horse buffs, Elise moves up a tier, but Pris and Clarine stay put. And actually, all of the Emblem Buff lists have the same weird inconsistency.

Because cavalry staff users are

1. Ranged, and therefore less affected by trenches, and
2. Not strictly combat units, and therefore are less affected by terrain purposed for keeping you away from your enemies.

As for the difference between Elise and Priscilla and Clarine, that's just a result of some units being affected more greatly than others by the same buff. +6 Atk to Azama, for example, is worth far less than +6 Atk to Elise, who has the Atk and Spd to make the most of the buff.

It's not that Priscilla and Clarine don't benefit from the buffs; it's that they don't benefit enough to bump them up a tier.

[YingofDarkness]

I was waiting for this Tempest Trial to start capping out Hero Merit on some of my units but then I pulled the whole family and I can't really bring myself to switch them out. It's FRobin, BChrom, FMorgan, and MMorgan just soloing the TT and they actually synergize well enough to do Lunatic 7 without my backup team needing to be called in. I guess I'll switch them out if I manage to cap their HM but for now I can't do it. Currently I'm at 35,304 and am hoping to get to 40,000 by the end of the day although I might go beyond that. I want to get to 99,999 by the end of the weekend so I can kind of ignore TT like I did last time. It felt so nice to not have to worry about it for a couple of days. Makes these longer ones feel like less of a grind although I know that is only because I grinded so much the first couple of days.

[Humanoid]

So I had just accepted over the last couple of days that Chrom just dies a lot in autobattle from running out on his own a lot. I didn't notice that I never finished teaching him his default skills, including Aether, despite him now having over 2000sp. Oops.

Other than that, it's going well enough. Both my regular team and my autobattle team is Horse Chrom, Cherche, F Robin and Lucius. Figured I may as well ally support Chrom and Robin while I'm at it, as boring as that sounds. Should be on track to get Gerome today, but no rush to use him since all four members of my autobattle team are still under 1000HM.

[Usana]

Holy crud. Unstoppable Chrom just solo'ed Lunatic 5 final map. It had Sully in it. As well as Faye, Celica, and Caeda. I didn't catch who else was there. I just caught the tell end and was like, crap Sully is going to murder him. Nope. Gem + Sword Breaker just isn't enough to stop the unstoppable! Admittedly he would have fallen if he didn't have Aether, but of course that is his default kit.

[Reddazrael]

24 minutes ago, Usana said:

Holy crud. Unstoppable Chrom just solo'ed Lunatic 5 final map. It had Sully in it. As well as Faye, Celica, and Caeda. I didn't catch who else was there. I just caught the tell end and was like, crap Sully is going to murder him. Nope. Gem + Sword Breaker just isn't enough to stop the unstoppable! Admittedly he would have fallen if he didn't have Aether, but of course that is his default kit.

Whenever I have a problem in these maps, I just throw E!Chrom at it and it generally dies pretty quickly.

Spoiler

WE WILL TAME THE CHAOS

BY KILLING IT DEAD

 

[Roflolxp54]

Got the Def Tactic seal!

Still got 68 Sacred Coins left over after fully upgrading the Def Tactic seal so I should be able to get enough for another full upgrade during the next Voting Gauntlet (starts on 4/4).

[Reddazrael]

Up to 20,147 now. grind grind grind

Sorry, Gerome, but you're going to have to wait until later. I have work in about eight hours and I need some sleep.