Vaximillian

Tempest Trials: Invisible Ties!

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10 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yayz, another Freddy user! ^^ At least some see how amazing he can be! I wish I could see more people that make him 5 star though. I do get the idea of merging a bunch of 4 stars, but still.

I'm getting a bit more comfortable with lunatic 7 myself, and I can also confirm Freddy makes a good team with his lord. :P Though it also helps when that Freddy can take just about any physical attack and not even get scratched. XD

If it helps, my Frederick was both 5*red and maxed HM before the cap raised. Now, the only reason he hasn't maxed is because I'm trying to sparingly use him so he doesn't cap HM too quickly. I've used him a lot in previous TTs 'cos he works very well on a horse team :D 

I'm trying to use my Summer Freddy more, but I don't tend to use daggers so much so he hasn't even got me the first 500 feathers yet -.-

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1 hour ago, Cute Chao said:

If it helps, my Frederick was both 5*red and maxed HM before the cap raised. Now, the only reason he hasn't maxed is because I'm trying to sparingly use him so he doesn't cap HM too quickly. I've used him a lot in previous TTs 'cos he works very well on a horse team :D 

I'm trying to use my Summer Freddy more, but I don't tend to use daggers so much so he hasn't even got me the first 500 feathers yet -.-

Ah, I see! I personally didn't care much about him capping HM quickly, but that's fair. And honestly, Summer Freddy is the only dagger I use a lot myself, so that's fair too. :P

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16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Are you suggesting that Inigo and Shigure be moved down (to around 8.0) or that the other tome users be moved up? Neither of those options make sense.

Moving Inigo and Shigure down doesn't make sense because of the utility that dancing provides. Dance and Sing are literally "the unit most suited for the job gets to move again" in addition to being a more flexible mobility assist.

Moving the other tome users up also doesn't make sense because they are all positioned relative to the lances and axes in their color category. Tome users without access to movement-type-specific buffs are having a much more difficult time dealing with the current threats. Distant Counter is more common, and with it bulkier units that can survive the first hit and kill on the counterattack.

Yes, The ranged dancers should all go down at least one tier and I think there are a few mages and dagger users below them who have more value than where they are placed. Shigure and Inigo are basically only good for their ability to dance. They need extremely specific skill sets just to counter one or two weapon types. And PA!Olivia doesn't even have the luxury of being able to run a Raven tome with TA. I would much rather use Lute, Micaiah, or Reinhardt who can actually pull their own weight, than use Shigure and limit myself to having only 3 units to counter my enemy's team. The Melee dancers/singers have access to Gem weapons + DC (Lightning Breath + TA3) so they can cover an entire color group and actually provide more help than just dancing so their placement is absolutely justified.

PA!Azura and Inigo are of the same color and directly comparable and they are just not on the same level.

17 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Why?

And the answer had better not be "because 8.5 is completely empty".

Because being mounted is not a 3+tier worthy advantage. Compare Serra to Pris and Clarine. Very comparable stat lines with Serra being the clear leader in offensive stats. The mounts are 9.0 Serra is 7.5, all because of 1 movement? Trenches and forest tiles do exist to handicap the mounts extra movement, so I don't see how they could possibly be 3 tiers above an otherwise superior unit. Brave Lyn isn't 3 tiers above Bride Cordelia.

Also, Why is Wrys not in his own tier at the bottom of the staves? He isn't even in the lowest staff tier. His character write-up even basically says "He has high Res. He is the worst staff user"

17 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Corrin is functionally a unit with 37/29/30/34/21 level-40 stats locked to a nature of [+Atk, -Res]. This means he effectively has the same Brave Bow performance as Setsuna or Rebecca, but without the Spd to make a follow-up.

Corrin has 32 Atk. And he has the highest Def stat of any +Def Archer. DD9 builds can counter ALL ranged attackers. That isn't something you would only want situationally.

17 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you read the patch notes, you'd know they're being judged by both their Brave Bow and Firesweep Bow builds.

Actually the only ones that even mention the Firesweep Bow are Lyn's, Cordelia's, and Faye's. And Faye's obviously has not been updated since the Guard Bow was introduced. Faye's is literally the only one that doesn't recommend the Brave Bow build as the best set.

17 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm not sure how I feel about Raven. He definitely belongs either in 8.5 or 8.0 right now, but I'm not sure which. I haven't done any recent numbers to see how he compares to Cherche, who is effectively the gatekeeper of 8.5 for player-phase units.

Nephenee is probably fine where she is, though I can see an argument for her to move up a tier. Her stats are very similar to Catria's and trades Catria's flying mobility for access to Breath skills and Wrath.

Raven has the highest Offensive Stats in the game with the Basikilos refinement. I think he should move up at least one if not two tiers.

Nephenee has enough Spd to double without the need of Quick Riposte and she only has 4 less Def than Lukas. I personally think that she is among the best infantry lance users if not the best.

 

I suppose I just don't agree with the hyper offense mentality. I think it is more reliable to counter-kill on the Enemy phase with overwhelming defense than it is to kill on the Player phase. Way back when, I used to use Nino with her Blade tome and Desperation, but I usually had to take a hit to get her into Desperation range and quite often she couldn't survive any hitsand I would lose matches because of it, then I realized "Why not just take little to no damage AND kill the opponent at the same time?"

This is why I value defensive ability just as high as offensive ability.

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And here I am still sitting at only 16,928 points because I only do my two bonus runs each day.

 

2 hours ago, Hawk King said:

The Melee dancers/singers have access to Gem weapons + DC (Lightning Breath + TA3) so they can cover an entire color group and actually provide more help than just dancing so their placement is absolutely justified.

Actually, they can't. It's mentioned only in the update notes, but Triangle Adept builds are specifically not taken into account on the tier list because they can be run by any virtually any colored unit and produce similar results.

Without access to Triangle Adept, Azura is extremely lackluster in combat.

 

2 hours ago, Hawk King said:

They need extremely specific skill sets just to counter one or two weapon types.

I'm not seeing how having an extremely specific skill set is detrimental when characters are ranked solely based on their optimal build. An optimal build is optimal regardless of how specific it is.

 

2 hours ago, Hawk King said:

I would much rather use Lute, Micaiah, or Reinhardt who can actually pull their own weight, than use Shigure and limit myself to having only 3 units to counter my enemy's team.

And yet somehow dancers are still among the most sought-after characters in the game for Arena offense teams despite most of them being built with the assumption that they will never see combat. I think most players don't have too much of a problem giving up one party slot worth of coverage for a dancer.

 

2 hours ago, Hawk King said:

Trenches and forest tiles do exist to handicap the mounts extra movement, so I don't see how they could possibly be 3 tiers above an otherwise superior unit. Brave Lyn isn't 3 tiers above Bride Cordelia.

Because Brave Lyn and Bride Cordelia are purely combat units, and Serra, Clarine, and Priscilla are a mix of combat and support. Being able to safely reach allies is the most crucial requirement for healers, and being short one movement range is a significant impediment to reaching allies to heal and avoiding being boxed in by enemies. Furthermore, trenches are exclusively placed between your units and your opponent's, which does not impede the support role at all and only slightly impedes the combat role for a ranged unit.

 

2 hours ago, Hawk King said:

Also, Why is Wrys not in his own tier at the bottom of the staves? He isn't even in the lowest staff tier. His character write-up even basically says "He has high Res. He is the worst staff user"

  1. It says "completely outclassed by virtually every other healer", and that's still true, but more importantly,
  2. His write-up was last updated prior to August of last year.

 

2 hours ago, Hawk King said:

Corrin has 32 Atk.

In other words, you didn't bother to read the post I linked to you.

Base stats don't matter. Actual stats do. Rebecca, who has 29 base Atk and optimally runs +Atk when using a Brave Bow build, has the same 32 Atk that Corrin has in his optimal nature for the same build, which happens to be neutral. This means that Corrin effectively has 29 base Atk when comparing two units by their base stats.

 

2 hours ago, Hawk King said:

And he has the highest Def stat of any +Def Archer.

Corrin doesn't have access to +Def. Gordin has +1 Def and -1 Atk with [+Def, =Atk] or +2 Atk and -2 Def with [+Atk, =Def], and Leon has +2 Atk and -1 Def with [+Def, =Atk].

 

3 hours ago, Hawk King said:

DD9 builds can counter ALL ranged attackers.

No, he can't. Corrin has 39 Res with Guard Bow+ [Res], Distant Def 3, and Distant Def 3. A tome user needs only 59 Atk to kill him in two hits (56 Atk if not using the Res refinement), which is trivial for any Litrblade user.

 

3 hours ago, Hawk King said:

Actually the only ones that even mention the Firesweep Bow are Lyn's, Cordelia's, and Faye's. And Faye's obviously has not been updated since the Guard Bow was introduced. Faye's is literally the only one that doesn't recommend the Brave Bow build as the best set.

It looks like I worded it wrong due to my kneejerk, then. My bad.

"Brave Bow is not the only weapon being used for ranking. Firesweep Bow is used for at least some of them."

Either way, your original statement of "The bows are basically just who does the Brave Bow the best, and it doesn't consider alternate builds which can often times be better" is incorrect.

 

3 hours ago, Hawk King said:

Raven has the highest Offensive Stats in the game with the Basikilos refinement. I think he should move up at least one if not two tiers.

Raven's stats are equivalent to 39/41/37/20/17, but locked to Slaying Axe+ [Spd]. His Escutcheon build is pretty damned impressive.

I wouldn't put him in 9.0 because the armors sitting in 9.0 are just that good, but as I said, I wouldn't be opposed to him in 8.5. I just haven't run Cherche's numbers yet (and probably won't because busy).

 

3 hours ago, Hawk King said:

Nephenee has enough Spd to double without the need of Quick Riposte

No, she doesn't. The problem with being blue is that you're expected to deal with Zelgius (33 Spd), Ayra (37 Spd), and Mia (40 Spd). Nephenee's 35 Spd isn't cutting it.

 

3 hours ago, Hawk King said:

and she only has 4 less Def than Lukas.

And 8 HP.

Also 4 Atk for the counterattack damage.

 

3 hours ago, Hawk King said:

I suppose I just don't agree with the hyper offense mentality. I think it is more reliable to counter-kill on the Enemy phase with overwhelming defense than it is to kill on the Player phase. Way back when, I used to use Nino with her Blade tome and Desperation, but I usually had to take a hit to get her into Desperation range and quite often she couldn't survive any hitsand I would lose matches because of it, then I realized "Why not just take little to no damage AND kill the opponent at the same time?"

This is why I value defensive ability just as high as offensive ability.

I personally prefer my enemy-phase units, as well, but that doesn't mean I can't see the value of hyper offense.

The thing is that the top-ranking offensive units on the tier list typically already are units that do kill the opponent while taking minimal damage. Every one of the player-phase characters at the top are the ones that either effectively run Firesweep (or an equivalent) or have enough bulk to reliably not die to a counterattack.

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I'm currently at 63,859 points (rank 3,985), just plugging along on Lunatic 7 without using pots at this point. I've since switched my team from KE!Chrom/Cordelia/Grima/Lucius to Sigurd/L'Arachel/Gerome/Lucius due to Cordelia maxing HMs out and KE!Chrom maxing out on SP. 

Oh, and I also got a pretty good enemy team roll a little bit ago.

Spoiler

mXodU3z.png?1

Those two up there aren't even trying to be subtle well, Clair isn't since Faye never even attempted to be to begin with.

 

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42,941 here. Do I just go ahead and upgrade Def Tactic all the way into rank 3? I don’t really use mixed teams though.

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35 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

42,941 here. Do I just go ahead and upgrade Def Tactic all the way into rank 3? I don’t really use mixed teams though.

Strangely enough, Tempest is probably the game mode where I have a mixed team most often.  Reinhardt is a staple, as well as a Falchion healer, who is infantry.  A dancer being Infantry/Flier leaves only the last slot that really varies.  As long as it's not another infantry, it would work just fine.

I'm sitting at 28,299, and may get Gerome tonight, if not tomorrow.  After going for upwards of 140,000 points and still getting bumped out of my Feather tier last time, I"m not really motivated to go beyond 100K this time.

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I caved. I gave Gerome Reposition. I usually only give Reposition to units that I plan on using long term but running a team of 3 melee units and a healer that's not built for offense is more frustrating than I would have liked it to be so I need something to keep me sane. Luckily there's a DC unit on the team.

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Directly after getting DEF tactic seal I upgraded it to level 3, but the better choice was to upgrade also Hone ATK seal at the same moment. Now Robin can buff Felicia to 47/47 offensive stats (+ATK Felicia with Fury + Hone SPD/ATK), which is really nice. 

DEF tactic will be still useful since I merged my Shiros and I'm running mixed teams in blessed gardens. 

I'm at 60k, not using pots all weekend. The BHB didn't cost pots either (could nearly auto it with flying mages). 

My two teams are still fun, everybody got S-Support (F!Morgan got also S summoner), but still I was tempted to use this team just for the goofy art I found on Reddit:

Spoiler

Also my Sigurd and Ursula have maxed HM weeks ago. 

 

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Well I am at about 32k now and Gerome giving bonus points means I should get all rewards by Friday if I do my runs right.  I managed to get Gerome right when Michalis got all the SP he needed so it was perfect.  TT is an SP grinding place for me right now and after this TT is over I should have all the SP I need to take care of the last 4 GHB elite quests I need to do, and my Jakob fully built as well.

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8 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Ah, I see! I personally didn't care much about him capping HM quickly, but that's fair. And honestly, Summer Freddy is the only dagger I use a lot myself, so that's fair too. :P

The only dagger I use frequently is PA!Olivia. I'm trying to use others more, but I struggle. I have refined his weapon, though, and put him with bowbreaker so he can at least deal with an unbuffed vanilla Lyn :) 

With HM, I tend not to use the units once I've capped them (with Reinhardt and Xander being the main exceptions, but even then I try to avoid them where I can), mostly 'cos I have so many units and feathers are always useful, so it's nice to try others. Frederick is very fun to use, though, especially against lance armours because the damage he does is hilarious :D

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56 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

The only dagger I use frequently is PA!Olivia. I'm trying to use others more, but I struggle. I have refined his weapon, though, and put him with bowbreaker so he can at least deal with an unbuffed vanilla Lyn :) 

With HM, I tend not to use the units once I've capped them (with Reinhardt and Xander being the main exceptions, but even then I try to avoid them where I can), mostly 'cos I have so many units and feathers are always useful, so it's nice to try others. Frederick is very fun to use, though, especially against lance armours because the damage he does is hilarious :D

I don't have that Olivia, so I can't say I've ever used her. xP But I see. It's always good to have someone that can counter CYL Lyn. For me, that's...well, Frederick. lol He just tanks her easy and kills her in one or two hits after that. :P

And yeah, that damage is hilarious. Now try an Ignis with Def as high as mine has. Now that is LOL. XD Can KO pretty much anything in one blow!

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3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I don't have that Olivia, so I can't say I've ever used her. xP But I see. It's always good to have someone that can counter CYL Lyn. For me, that's...well, Frederick. lol He just tanks her easy and kills her in one or two hits after that. :P

And yeah, that damage is hilarious. Now try an Ignis with Def as high as mine has. Now that is LOL. XD Can KO pretty much anything in one blow!

Yeah, mine's nowhere near yours xD I think I went for +Atk instead of defence, including on his weapon refinement :) 

My Lyn counters are numerous, 'cos I like running AA. I have Gaius, Summer Frederick, Takumi, Kimono Corrin, Jeorge, Cupid Roy... 

Brave Bow Lyn is a bit trickier. I only have Lyon, M!Robin and Henry who are guaranteed not to die from that and then to oneshot her back (in a double attack because all three run bowbreaker). I think Frankenjakob and Count Henry should be safe, too, but thankfully never needed to use more than three brave bow Lyn counters before xD 

I suppose all four arrows just tink off Frederick before he slaughters her for you xD 

I do tend to go for counterplays, though, where I can, so I try to have units that can take the blow and counter back :) 

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Just hit 40k for Def Tactic and upgraded it. I think my most common user of it will be L'Arachel, because Def+Res Tactic translates to "Fortify Whatever". Seems like a fun way to support blade tomes on mixed teams.

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2 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

Yeah, mine's nowhere near yours xD I think I went for +Atk instead of defence, including on his weapon refinement :) 

My Lyn counters are numerous, 'cos I like running AA. I have Gaius, Summer Frederick, Takumi, Kimono Corrin, Jeorge, Cupid Roy... 

Brave Bow Lyn is a bit trickier. I only have Lyon, M!Robin and Henry who are guaranteed not to die from that and then to oneshot her back (in a double attack because all three run bowbreaker). I think Frankenjakob and Count Henry should be safe, too, but thankfully never needed to use more than three brave bow Lyn counters before xD 

I suppose all four arrows just tink off Frederick before he slaughters her for you xD 

I do tend to go for counterplays, though, where I can, so I try to have units that can take the blow and counter back :) 

Hey, +Atk is good too! I just like seeing weapons doink off people for little to no damage, so... XD Plus, Ignis KOing things like Ike, Zelgius, etc. is amazing. lol

Yeah, brave bow Lyn is actually even easier for my Frederick to deal with because he takes literal zero damage and then is ready to proc Ignis next turn. XD

Yeah, same here, which is a reason I built my Freddy for enemy phase. Just waiting for three more of him to make him +10 and a +Def, -Res one to make the new base.

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13 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Hey, +Atk is good too! I just like seeing weapons doink off people for little to no damage, so... XD Plus, Ignis KOing things like Ike, Zelgius, etc. is amazing. lol

Yeah, brave bow Lyn is actually even easier for my Frederick to deal with because he takes literal zero damage and then is ready to proc Ignis next turn. XD

Yeah, same here, which is a reason I built my Freddy for enemy phase. Just waiting for three more of him to make him +10 and a +Def, -Res one to make the new base.

I wonder, if you ever got a unit that has it, would you use Distant Counter on him? 

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15 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I wonder, if you ever got a unit that has it, would you use Distant Counter on him? 

Eh, I kind of thought about it once, but probably not. His Res is bad, so he's not really meant to take hits from mages. He can knock a lot of them out in one hit, but still. He might use it okay, but there are better options for it. Besides, He'd have to unequip Steady Stance 3 which I gave up a Black Knight for, so...

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2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Eh, I kind of thought about it once, but probably not. His Res is bad, so he's not really meant to take hits from mages. He can knock a lot of them out in one hit, but still. He might use it okay, but there are better options for it. Besides, He'd have to unequip Steady Stance 3 which I gave up a Black Knight for, so...

Ahhh, that's fair. I forgot you'd added that to him and was recalling Armoured Blow from a while back xD 

I still have my spare Black Knight. Waiting for the person I most want to use Steady Stance on. But then I got a spare Shiro, too, so I have two I can play with. Not sure who I most want to have it. That's my biggest problem with expensive fodder, is that I never want to use it in case someone more deserving comes along. It doesn't help that I have so many favourites, although I will admit part of me is waiting for Kent so I can see exactly what he needs. Whether it's DC, Steady Stance or something else, he's getting whatever he needs :D 

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7 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

Ahhh, that's fair. I forgot you'd added that to him and was recalling Armoured Blow from a while back xD 

I still have my spare Black Knight. Waiting for the person I most want to use Steady Stance on. But then I got a spare Shiro, too, so I have two I can play with. Not sure who I most want to have it. That's my biggest problem with expensive fodder, is that I never want to use it in case someone more deserving comes along. It doesn't help that I have so many favourites, although I will admit part of me is waiting for Kent so I can see exactly what he needs. Whether it's DC, Steady Stance or something else, he's getting whatever he needs :D 

Oh, I haven't had him use Armored Blow in forever. XD I did for a short time, but then it was Death Blow and now it's Steady Stance.

Yeah, sometimes it can be hard to decide who gets what.

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11 hours ago, Othin said:

I think my most common user of it will be L'Arachel, because Def+Res Tactic translates to "Fortify Whatever". Seems like a fun way to support blade tomes on mixed teams.

That's actually a very good idea. Too bad L'Arachel can't profit from it, since she is a great Blade tome user herself. 

/Edit: Btw: I changed Germone's A-Skill to DEF+3. He won't miss whose 2 DEF, but appreciates +3 ATK especially since he has Close Defense 3 seal equipped and get's Fortify Fliers by Caeda. 

Edited by mampfoid

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Just under 60k through 4 days. If I can maintain that pace and get a couple days where I really go all in with the grinding I should be able to get in the top 1000.

 

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Actually, they can't. It's mentioned only in the update notes, but Triangle Adept builds are specifically not taken into account on the tier list because they can be run by any virtually any colored unit and produce similar results.

Without access to Triangle Adept, Azura is extremely lackluster in combat.

Huh, makes sense I guess. Although for dancers and their lower BST, TA3 is kinda the only way to get good combat use out of them. Well then dancers seem to be rated solely on their ability to refresh other units.The topic of the value of dance/sing is pretty complicated. I think the melee dancers are in good spots, it's just when I see PA!Azura and Inigo in the same tier for green that I have problems. Azura's sing is better because of the stat buffs, how much value it is can be debated, but it is better. And then when you consider that Minerva is above Nino, Azura should be above Inigo for the same reasons. She may have low Def, but Dragons do exist and her Res comes in handy for them.

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

In other words, you didn't bother to read the post I linked to you.

Sorry, I did, I just didn't put 2 and 2 together. My bad.

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, he can't. Corrin has 39 Res with Guard Bow+ [Res], Distant Def 3, and Distant Def 3. A tome user needs only 59 Atk to kill him in two hits (56 Atk if not using the Res refinement), which is trivial for any Litrblade user.

 

Blade tomes on mages is another "optimal build" that bugs me. Panic Ploy and the new Dull Ranged skill are both counters to Blade tomes. If we assume our enemies are running the support buffs necessary for their extra damage, we can assume that our DD9 archer has Dull Ranged 3, Spur and Drive support as well as an S-support from another unit, and enough Infantry Pulse support for a 1 cooldown Ignis on the counter. This is more than enough to be a hard counter to any ranged attacker. Not to mention, all of those Brave Bow builds will be doing 0 damage without a skill activation.

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I personally prefer my enemy-phase units, as well, but that doesn't mean I can't see the value of hyper offense.

The thing is that the top-ranking offensive units on the tier list typically already are units that do kill the opponent while taking minimal damage. Every one of the player-phase characters at the top are the ones that either effectively run Firesweep (or an equivalent) or have enough bulk to reliably not die to a counterattack.

My way of dealing with every single one of the melee units in the three S-tiers except for the Green Dragons is to move Lukas into their range and watch him counter-kill them all. Seeing Bold Fighter on an Armor just means they will take 2 Bonfires and actually die. And if they do manage to survive, they are easy kills for my other units to finish up on the player phase. Even without fortification tiles I can play around Panic Ploy and provide him with enough support to take on the likes of Winter Chrom, Hectors, and Nowi.

Because of this I guess I just don't see any amount of hyper offense as being the best and most reliable method of dealing with things. As it stands, there is always a defensive build that can completely shut down many of the common offensive builds at the same time. 

I do see the value of hyper offense though. Bold Fighter makes a lot of armors insane murder machines, but it is still possible to nullify their damage with the right defensively built units. I just feel that hyper defensive units and builds should have just as much value placed on them as the hyper offensive ones have. 

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Just another three days until I get 5-star Gerome.

I think my team has finally stabilized to something that won't change now that I've picked up the Res Ploy seal, though I might switch out Drive Def for Def Tactic once I get that. This is also the first Tempest Trials where my staff user is not Elise.

+10 Mystery Tiki [+Spd, -HP] (Lightning Breath+ [Def], Reposition, Aether, Triangle Adept 3, Quick Riposte 3, Fortify Dragons, Distant Def 3)
+5 Morgan (F) [+Atk, -HP] (Blarserpent+, Reposition, Iceberg, Mirror Stance 2, Guard 3, Atk Ploy 3, Res Ploy 3)
+10 Myrrh [+Atk, -Spd] (Great Flame, Reposition, Aether, Distant Counter, Quick Riposte 3, Hone Fliers, Iote's Shield)
+10 Bride Lyn [+Spd, -Def] (Candlelight+ [Dazzling Staff], Recover+, Kindled-Fire Balm, Speed +3, Wrathful Staff 3, Drive Def 2)

 

30 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

And then when you consider that Minerva is above Nino, Azura should be above Inigo for the same reasons.

Not quite. Minerva and Nino are rated almost exclusively for their combat potential. Azura and Inigo are rated primarily for their Dance potential (where Azura is only slightly better) and only somewhat for their combat potential (where both are kind of meh without Triangle Adept).

 

32 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Blade tomes on mages is another "optimal build" that bugs me. Panic Ploy and the new Dull Ranged skill are both counters to Blade tomes. If we assume our enemies are running the support buffs necessary for their extra damage, we can assume that our DD9 archer has Dull Ranged 3, Spur and Drive support as well as an S-support from another unit, and enough Infantry Pulse support for a 1 cooldown Ignis on the counter. This is more than enough to be a hard counter to any ranged attacker. Not to mention, all of those Brave Bow builds will be doing 0 damage without a skill activation.

Panic Ploy I don't think is really that much of an issue. In general, unless you're at the very top of the Arena, you aren't seeing teams with three or four members having Panic Ploy, and even at the top of the Arena, you don't really see them. Most of the teams I face in the 734+ range are without Panic Ploy and the ones that do tend to have only one or two members with it, mostly because Armor March is common to have on at least two units. The 2.2 update notes indicate that the target audience is for players in the 700-710 score range, which should leave out teams that cover half the map in Panic Ploy.

Dull Ranged is new and probably hasn't been accounted for in the ratings, and it won't become particularly common unless male Morgan is dropped to 4-star rarity.

The ratings also specifically mention in the 2.0 update notes that match-ups in the main tier list are calculated with +4/4/4/4 buffs and no other support against opponents with +5 merge and +6/6/6/6 buffs (or highest possible for their unit type if +6 is not possible) and no other support.

 

43 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

I do see the value of hyper offense though. Bold Fighter makes a lot of armors insane murder machines, but it is still possible to nullify their damage with the right defensively built units. I just feel that hyper defensive units and builds should have just as much value placed on them as the hyper offensive ones have. 

I think the biggest problem with enemy-phase units that tends to hold them back is the fact that the staple defensive skill, Quick Riposte, has a very strict activation threshold. Having that threshold broken pretty much renders the unit no longer usable. For most units, tanking a hit at neutral weapon triangle is enough to break that, limiting their effectiveness outside of a synergistic team composition.

In contrast, player-phase units typically get stronger the lower their HP drops because of the effect of Desperation (and Brash Assault) and the newer Brazen skills.

I think that for as long as Quick Riposte is the best thing we have for enemy-phase units (excluding armors, who have the far superior Vengeful Fighter), the best pure enemy-phase units are going to be stuck below the best player-phase units.

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I just got 5 star Gerome and immediately began leveling him up in lower level TT maps. I decided to do that instead of the tower so I can keep adding to my score, even if only a little. I've reached 32,500 now.

I must say though, this guy has the edgiest voice I've ever heard. o.o

 

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I got Gerome the other night and I got bit by the “build the new guy” bug so now I have this

image.png

spur spd is in place of goad flyers because I made some mistakes and have no more Palla’s. 

I got the Def Tactics seal yesterday so now I’m just gunning for the orbs as fast as I can because I am orb broke and that Ike banner is taunting me. 

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