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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish


Lightchao42
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Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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2 hours ago, Jedi said:

You might have to wait till DLC for Rex, since they started development in 2016, not sure how they'll go about that yet though and I could be wrong.

Xenoblade 2 started development one year before Ultimate did and Monolith Soft's been involved with Smash ever since Brawl. I do think Rex has a higher chance of being DLC but i wouldn't be surprised if he was in the base game. 

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Oh hey when Sakurai said his eye was a little red from being tired, he was totally dropping a hint about K. Rool. Since K. Rool's eye is a little red. Also when Dedede pointed at himself it was DEFINITELY a "it was me, Dio!" moment.

Anyway, I'm fine with Chrom being an echo fighter. I expected it, actually. I'm still REALLY hoping Lyn will be DLC, though, she's long overdue and is such a huge glaring omission from Smash's playable FE cast.

K. Rool is finally in, that's awesome! Dark Samus is cool, too.

And HOLY CRAP BOTH SIMON AND RICHTER?! AWESOME! I'm actually more excited for Richter!

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So as someone with only vague knowledge of Castlevania, who exactly is Richter and why do you think he was included as an Echo Fighter over any other Castlevania protagonist? I'm unfamiliar with him and would like to know more.

Edited by Lightchao42
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15 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

So as someone with only vague knowledge of Castlevania, who exactly is Richter and why do you think he was included as an Echo Fighter over any other Castlevania protagonist? I'm unfamiliar with him and would like to know more.

He has shown up the most of any Belmont in the franchise, and tends to be a fan favorite alongside Simon & Julius. 

Also he was directly involved in both Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night which are seen as two of the best games in the franchise generally.

He like many of the Belmonts driven by their mission to take out Dracula, but for him it's more personal as people from his village get taken away as hostages including his wife to be. 

In Symphony of the Night the introduction of the game is even a retelling of the final fight of Rondo of Blood and the game directly continues from it. He's also shown up in Portrait of Ruin, as a spirit test for Johnathan Morris to see if he can handle the Vampire Killers power. 

He has a few other times he shows up too, and Alucard is quick to say he is the most powerful of his clan in SoTN, although way further down in the timeline Julius did surpass Richter.

Edited by Jedi
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26 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

So as someone with only vague knowledge of Castlevania, who exactly is Richter and why do you think he was included as an Echo Fighter over any other Castlevania protagonist? I'm unfamiliar with him and would like to know more.

Pretty much the entire moveset between Simon and Richter are moves from the games that originated with Simon or Richter themselves. The whip, axe, holy water, and cross all came from the very first game with Simon, while the dash, uppercut, slide kick, and Final Smash are from Rondo of Blood & Symphony of the Night with Richter. Sakurai mentioning that Simon could be seen as an echo of Richter due to how much he had to borrow corroborates the idea that he felt it was fair to include both, especially since their games are among the highest regarded in the series.

Storywise, he's a direct descendant of Simon (by like 4 generations, their games are about 100 years apart) and they are using the same whip, passed down through the family to fight Dracula upon his resurrection.

Fun fact: Richter is voiced by David Vincent, who also voices Robin

edit: @Jedi Dunno about you, but I jumped out of my chair and gave a hearty fuck yes when he was shown. I would never have assumed he had anything close to a chance. I can't wait to change my avatar back to SOTN Richter, but I gotta get the most out of this dancing Xander

Edited by Johann
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3 hours ago, Jedi said:

You might have to wait till DLC for Rex, since they started development in 2016, not sure how they'll go about that yet though and I could be wrong.

Xenoblade 2 actually entered pre-development in late 2014; that said, it didn't enter development in earnest until right after X was finished (mid-2015) and the party member designs weren't finalized until early 2016.

8 minutes ago, Johann said:

Fun fact: Richter is voiced by David Vincent, who also voices Robin

Making this only the second instance (and first since 64) of two characters in Smash sharing a VA (Ness and Kirby do).

Edited by The DanMan
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8 minutes ago, Johann said:

edit: @Jedi Dunno about you, but I jumped out of my chair and gave a hearty fuck yes when he was shown. I would never have assumed he had anything close to a chance. I can't wait to change my avatar back to SOTN Richter, but I gotta get the most out of this dancing Xander

I was in shock, I figured we'd get Simon, but to get my favorite Belmont along with him was something I didn't even think plausible, and I love it.

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DkHJMmCVAAAHBdO.jpg

I hope this isn't the final song count because if it is, then it's pretty upsetting that Final Fantasy still only has 2 songs. Even if they're specifically going with just FF7 (which they are from the looks of it), there's a good number of songs there can pull from there.

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6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

DkHJMmCVAAAHBdO.jpg

I hope this isn't the final song count because if it is, then it's pretty upsetting that Final Fantasy still only has 2 songs. Even if they're specifically going with just FF7 (which they are from the looks of it), there's a good number of songs there can pull from there.

SE is notoriously stingy, I wouldn't expect anymore then what we have.

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I was personally hoping for Trevor Belmont, rather than Simon or Richter and no; it's not just because I've only seen the show and not played any of the games, though that may be part of it.

I liked the joke with King Dedede pretending to be King K. Rool only for the real King K. Rool to show up. 

Chrom? I was hoping for Micaiah, Hector or Celica, to be honest. Even Eliwood would have made a more interesting echo of Roy; being Roy's father after all. 

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21 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Making this only the second instance (and first since 64) of two characters in Smash sharing a VA (Ness and Kirby do).

Well, there's also the many Mario characters voiced by Charles Martinet I suppose, and I think some of the Koopa Kids share voice actors. Across different series though, definitely. Not surprisingly, Fire Emblem has a lot of overlap in terms of voice actors, including:

  • Marth = Alucard (Castlevania)
  • Frederick = Ryu (Street Fighter)
  • Lissa = Pauline (Mario), including singing the songs
  • Silas = Pit/Dark Pit (Kid Icarus)
  • Hector = Magnus (Kid Icarus), but only for Smash
  • Mia = Lucas (Mother 3)
  • Mathilda = Elma (potential Xenoblade X rep)

Not sure who voices Simon though

Edited by Johann
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14 minutes ago, Johann said:

Not sure who voices Simon though

Last time Simon had a voice it was Keith Silverstein... which makes another overlap! 

Concerning the news, nothing made me leave my seat screaming, but they’re all solid additions though I find Chrom fairly iffy. I’m still holding out for Decidueye and especially Shadow.

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26 minutes ago, Johann said:

Well, there's also the many Mario characters voiced by Charles Martinet I suppose, and I think some of the Koopa Kids share voice actors. Across different series though, definitely. Not surprisingly, Fire Emblem has a lot of overlap in terms of voice actors, including:

  • Marth = Alucard (Castlevania)
  • Frederick = Ryu (Street Fighter)
  • Lissa = Pauline (Mario), including singing the songs
  • Silas = Pit/Dark Pit (Kid Icarus)
  • Hector = Magnus (Kid Icarus), but only for Smash
  • Mia = Lucas (Mother 3)
  • Mathilda = Elma (potential Xenoblade X rep)

Not sure who voices Simon though

I was directly talking about playable characters; you start delving into other stuff and you'll find a ton of overlap like that.

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5 hours ago, The Priest said:

Castlevenia representation is a bit surprising since ... well, Konami, right?

Konami's a complete whore for money now, and we got Snake back, so they're collaborating on this game already. Plus, it's not like they're gonna do shit with these characters. Might as well cut a deal with Nintendo and make something. 

I just want Golden Sun. Give be something from Golden Sun and I'll be happy. Somebody at Nintendo must remember that those games exist. Thought I don't know if anybody at Camelot even remembers. I'm sure they're all "What? No. We only make Mario spin-offs and sports games." 

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22 minutes ago, Johann said:

Still hasn't sunk in for me that Richter Belmont is a playable Smash character

Same, partially because I had no idea who he was before he was revealed. And I haven't felt that way since Brawl!

(Specifically, I didn't know who Pit, Snake, Ike, and Lucas were until they were announced for Brawl)

But thinking about Echo Fighters, why the heck isn't Alph one? It bothers me that every other "different character with the same moveset" is an echo, but Alph is still an alt of Olimar (obviously the Koopalings aren't all going to get their own slots, so I'm fine with them being alts). I wonder if Sakurai thought that Alph just wasn't popular or requested enough to get his own slot.

Hopefully this means we'll get Louie as an echo instead, I've kind of wanted him in since Brawl.

Edited by Lightchao42
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1 minute ago, Lightchao42 said:

Same, partially because I had no idea who he was before he was revealed. And I haven't felt that way since Brawl!

(Specifically, I didn't know who Pit, Snake, Ike, and Lucas were until they were announced for Brawl)

But thinking about Echo Fighters, why the heck isn't Alph one? It bothers me that every other "different character with the same moveset" is an echo, but Alph is still an alt of Olimar (obviously the Koopalings aren't all going to get their own slots, so I'm fine with them being alts). I wonder if Sakurai thought that Alph just wasn't popular or requested enough to get his own slot.

That's a really weird feeling, and I bet there are a lot of people who feel that way about Richter since, like Fire Emblem, it's usually a new cast every game. I've only ever felt that about Roy and Marth in Melee, though I had heard of Fire Emblem, I figured it was like some kind of action platformer and they were pals. Hard to keep up with who's who if you're completely uninitiated with a series, more so if it's not released worldwide (Lucas being the other prime example).

I think in Alph's case, he's not particularly detailed or vocal or anything, and most players would barely notice the difference between him and Olimar. This might seem like reaching, but I kinda think they also didn't want there to be 2 Olimars on the character select screen, if only because that greatly increases the odds of getting them if you pick Random. In Lucina's case, however, her and Marth's moveset are much more intuitive than Olimar's. Alph was likely easy to simply make a slightly different model for and just slap it in the game.

Anyway, from here on, I'm just gonna wildly guess we'll see (pre-DLC of course):

  • Elma (Xenoblade X)
  • Geno (Mario RPG)
  • Dixie Kong (DKC) - either a partial/mixed echo like Chrom or entirely new character
  • Shadow (Sonic) - Sonic echo I guess, I don't really know or care about him but he's popular apparently
  • Ken (Street Fighter) - Ryu echo, of course
  • A new pokemon - haven't kept up with who's hot these days
  • Someone from Namco - Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia) or Heihachi (Tekken)

I'd like to see, but have lower hopes for:

  • Impa (LoZ, Sheik echo)
  • Medusa (Kid Icarus, Palutena echo)

If echoes really don't take much time, then hell yeah add a million of em

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I've been posting on other forums all day, so this one's a little late. But anyway...

  • Already expected Simon thanks to the previous night's leak, so that didn't surprise me, but the trailer showing good ol' Lugi get fucking murdered made me laugh. Richter surprised me; I don't play Castlevania, so I don't actually care much about him, but now the floodgates are open for third party characters having Echoes, so who knows who else might show up?
  • A la carte Alucard AT is cool, and it's funny seeing Dracula in this game. Also, I notice the arena where he's being battled against is NOT the Castlevania stage, but a flat plain based off of it; but I'll talk more about this when I get to Rathalos.
  • Having 36 songs from Castlevania is a pleasant surprise. I might not know much about Castlevania but I know it has a kickass soundtrack. I'm glad to hear Sakurai's team had fun getting to arrange the songs for it.
  • Chrom is... okay. I was fine with just having Robin and Lucina. Awakening getting a THIRD character feels a bit excessive when there's so many other FE games they could have drawn from. But whatever. Being a Roy echo is interesting, though.
  • Dark Samus, meanwhile, has my interest. I didn't expect Metroid to get ANOTHER representative, even if it is an Echo. I would have preferred Dark Samus have her own unique moveset based on her phazon abilities, but this is better than nothing, and she's got some sick animations (check her character trailer on the website, she's got a cool victory pose). I hope she has a color palette based on her unstable translucent form from Prime 2's finale.
  • Echo Fighters being able to be stacked onto their root character... actually irks me a little. It's just an option, so it shouldn't, but I feel like it's pandering too much to the clone crybabies. You will stare at the Echoes on the roster and you will LIKE IT. Hiding them is for cowards. :P
  • We already knew about most of the returning stages, but good to see Brinstar Depths, Pirate Ship, and Fountain of Dreams come back. Somewhat surprised the retro stages from the 3DS game came back, and VERY surprised that Mario Bros. and Hanenbow came back considering they were pretty reviled in Brawl. Yoshi's Woolly World is conspicuously absent, though; I'd hate for the best game of 2015 to disappear from Smash Bros.
  • Official confirmation of New Donk City Hall is neat, though the stage itself seems pretty straightforward and unremarkable aside from the live band.
  • 103 stages is a lot. I'm a bit confused by Sakurai's wording, though, if he's saying that 103 is the final roster or just the current running total. It would be strange if there were no further new stages, especially to accompany other newcomers, but Sakurai kinda fixates on the number as if it's the final total.
  • Stages being organized chronologically is interesting, but rather messy. I hope we have an option to rearrange the stage select (and character select) screens however we see fit.
  • Stage Morph is neat but I don't see myself using it all that often.
  • My Music being based on series rather than a stage-by-stage case is cool, but I'm probably going to arrange things so that each song only plays on one stage; fitting songs to stages actually sounds rather fun. I'm kinda curious where songs from franchises that didn't have stages will go, such as the Golden Sun and W101 music pieces.
  • 800+ songs is absurd. Last game was around 480, right? It's almost doubled.
  • I caught Final Fantasy still only having two songs on the Sound Test screen. Disappointing, but hardly a surprise. Street Fighter getting upgraded to 36 songs IS a surprise, however.
  • Playlists and iPod mode are... not things I'll probably wind up using, but okay.
  • Being able to set default rulesets for matches is cool. I hated always having to change Time back to Stock.
  • Stamina Battle getting promoted to a standard battle type is deserved and about time. Neat that it can now be a STOCK Stamina battle. And I guess this confirms that Link exploding after getting stabbed by Ridley in the latter's trailer was just new Stamina mode mechanics, as I suspected. Kinda gonna miss beating on corpses, though.
  • Picking stages before characters will take some getting used to.
  • Sudden Death zoom is neat. For those who didn't see it at E3 or EVO, Bob-omb rain still happens, just after the camera has finished zooming.
  • Final Smash Meter is a cool option but I don't see that legalizing it in tournaments.
  • Squad Strike is really cool if it's like Smash Tour's final battle, but Sakurai was a bit vague as to whether it would all happen in one fight or be consecutive mini-duels instead. Tourney is also good to have back, and is hopefully available offline now. Smashdown should be a fun way to kill an afternoon. I'm pretty good with most characters so I'll have an innate advantage over people who only specialize with one or two.
  • Training Mode grid makes me laugh, but I'm not much of a researcher so I'm sure it's more useful to the eggheads to calculate frame data and exact distances.
  • I'm glad Classic Mode is back to being a standard arcade ladder. The twist that each fighter has a different set of matches is really cool, and I like the little names for each round.
  • Killing Edge is a cool item, and I'm glad FE finally has one. Death's Scythe also looks fun. Ramblin' Evil Mushroom is as I expected.
  • Alolan Exeggutor made me laugh, and Ditto made me 'ooooh'. Mimikyu meanwhile looks delightfully creepy, and it's another no-launch kill so that's neat. I dare not ask what happens to those slain by Mimikyu.
  • Oh, cool, Assist Trophy time- OH SHIT THE MUSIC. It's the highway from Mega Man X! Good to see some non-classic Mega Man songs getting in. A-anyway, Klaptrap is nice, I don't get how DK went this long without an AT. Kapp'n is hilarious. Shovel Knight was highly unexpected, and the Moon is... well... the Moon. Press F to pay respects to Ashley fans.
  • Now we reach Rathalos. Looks intense, but again I'm going to talk about it later, after this analysis is done.
  • Menu interface is slick and cool, and that blurred mode is aggravating me. I wanna know what it is!
  • As soon as DK yawned, I knew what newcomer to expect. The Dedede fakeout made me laugh (especially since Dedede is voiced by Sakurai himself- it's like he trolled us about K. Rool), but K. Rool looks like a LOT of fun. In fact, out of all the newcomer movesets he looks the best. I'll definitely have to use him. Was kinda hoping that his Final Smash would be Kredits, working like an upside-down PK Starstorm, but blowing the everloving shit outta DK Isle will be fun. And that last part of the movie, with them galloping at each other on all fours and colliding fists so hard the jungle gets obliterated by the shockwave? The Gangplank Galleon remix playing the whole time? Great stuff all around. Who'd have thought a fat crocodile king with dissociative identity disorder would be so damn cool?

Okay, analysis done, so time to talk about Dracula and Rathalos.

So the stage we see Rathalos being a "boss" on is not one of the existing 103 stages. This could mean there's more than 103 stages, but why wouldn't Sakurai just include the stage in the total? Notice the stage is just a flat plain with no features other than Rathalos itself. This is the same as Dracula. They're also WAY more aggressive and hard to avoid than any previous "boss hazards" like Ridley and Metal Face, and are only ever seen fighting one opponent at a time. So I think these are actually adventure mode bosses of some kind. Maybe it's a full SSE-style story, maybe it's just levels with enemies and bosses, or hell, maybe it's just a boss battle mode, but either way it's a really cool soft-confirmation and I look forward to seeing more bosses in this.

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3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I was personally hoping for Trevor Belmont, rather than Simon or Richter and no; it's not just because I've only seen the show and not played any of the games, though that may be part of it.

I liked the joke with King Dedede pretending to be King K. Rool only for the real King K. Rool to show up. 

Chrom? I was hoping for Micaiah, Hector or Celica, to be honest. Even Eliwood would have made a more interesting echo of Roy; being Roy's father after all. 

I mean, I dunno how Micaiah, Hector or Celica would work as Echoes, given the point was making Chrom with little resources instead of a new moveset with so much development time put in. You got me on Eliwood except that he's not voiced by Matt Mercer.

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1 hour ago, Johann said:

Still hasn't sunk in for me that Richter Belmont is a playable Smash character

Dude same. Totally blindsided by this inclusion. The playable character of the best classic-style Castlevania game, and a major plot element of the other best Castlevania game.

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13 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Dude same. Totally blindsided by this inclusion. The playable character of the best classic-style Castlevania game, and a major plot element of the other best Castlevania game.

I figure every Richter fan is feeling the same thing, like a "they put him in just for me" sort of feeling. I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai is a big fan of Rondo and Symphony

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2 hours ago, Slumber said:

I just want Golden Sun. Give be something from Golden Sun and I'll be happy. Somebody at Nintendo must remember that those games exist. Thought I don't know if anybody at Camelot even remembers. I'm sure they're all "What? No. We only make Mario spin-offs and sports games." 

If Isaac is playable in this I will never complain about Chrom being playable again. Your move Sakurai.

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That would certianly be great if it happened.

Though at this point, I'd even accept Isaac back as an AT (or some other GS character) . It'd be something, if anything.

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23 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Having 36 songs from Castlevania is a pleasant surprise. I might not know much about Castlevania but I know it has a kickass soundtrack. I'm glad to hear Sakurai's team had fun getting to arrange the songs for it.

A lot of the Castlevania songs played in the Direct are straight out of Castlevania: Harmony of Despair (a sort of mash-up game) or Castlevania: Judgment (a mediocre fighting game). I'd guess not even half of the ones on the list are newly arranged tracks, though that hardly matters since those two games have many of the best arrangements in the series.

39 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

So the stage we see Rathalos being a "boss" on is not one of the existing 103 stages. This could mean there's more than 103 stages, but why wouldn't Sakurai just include the stage in the total? Notice the stage is just a flat plain with no features other than Rathalos itself. This is the same as Dracula. They're also WAY more aggressive and hard to avoid than any previous "boss hazards" like Ridley and Metal Face, and are only ever seen fighting one opponent at a time. So I think these are actually adventure mode bosses of some kind. Maybe it's a full SSE-style story, maybe it's just levels with enemies and bosses, or hell, maybe it's just a boss battle mode, but either way it's a really cool soft-confirmation and I look forward to seeing more bosses in this.

I noticed that all 103 were already on the screen, so I'm skeptical that this is it for stages, as it'd mean no new series representation through stages.

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52 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Final Smash Meter is a cool option but I don't see that legalizing it in tournaments.

It may not happen but i feel that it's something that needs to be thoroughly debated first. Final Smashes have always been the Smash equivalent of super moves in literally every fighting game. The meter allows Final Smashes to be activated independently of the Smash Ball, and the Smash Ball was the main reason why Final Smashes were banned.

The counterpoint, of course, is that Critical Hit still OHKOs and Bayonetta's Final Smash is a universal time slow-down that OHKOs anyone above 100%. Basically, there's a wide margin between good Final Smashes and broken ones (yes, Critical Hit can be avoided but Bayo's FS can't.)

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