Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[The DanMan]

16 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Also with Simon and Richter in the game now, you can have an 8 player smash with entirely 3rd party characters.

Putting things up to 9 total, with the likelyhood of Shadow pushing the count to 10-- and Ken/Akuma/a Street Fighter shoto can't exactly be disqualified (though I do personally find it unlikely); and then we've got Heihachi/Lloyd/Yuri (other Namco characters) for consideration, with my personal expectations being at least one of them by the time DLC is done (with maybe Heihachi at base and Tales jumping in during DLC), alongside the virtual lock of Monster Hunter for DLC (tell me a 3rd party series would get special treatment in the base game like this and not have a character on the way)... and then there's more speculative stuff like Banjo&Kazooie (and hell even the Chief himself is getting brought up) alongside whoever Sega could have for a unique newcomer (probably not someone from their graveyard, that's for sure)... there's easily going to be over a dozen 3rd party characters by the time support winds down.

44 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

About that...

I recently realized that out of the nine third-party characters in this Nintendo game, only two of them (Mega Man and Simon) first appeared on a Nintendo console. It really makes you think...

Sonic and Snake were considered for Melee, only getting passed up due to it's development basically being permanent crunch time. I think the fact those two were the first 3rd party newcomers codified things for a time: Sonic was a "classic" mascot while Snake was random and contemporary/cool. Then Smash 4 cut Snake and brought on Mega Man and Pac-Man, exclusively going with the mascots-- then Ryu happened to add a "contemporary cool guy" in (while still a mascot), before Cloud and Bayonetta basically just shit on precedence and fan-made "rules".

Simon I'd say is a bit more of a Ryu, but I think overall 3rd parties have always been about whoever can be realistically obtained that would generate the most hype-- it's undeniable that they're better for marketing than 1st parties. At least we're only getting a lot now when we've got over 50 Nintendo characters on the roster.

[Dai]

You know, I love how you can now make Snake refight Rathalos, because apparently, Rathalos was already in the Metal Gear series this past decade. I thought the massive Monster Hunter crossover stuff was more recent, but I was wrong.

Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker

[Captain Karnage]

r/smashbros found out who'll be the killer in the next trailer

[The DanMan]

49 minutes ago, Dai said:

You know, I love how you can now make Snake refight Rathalos, because apparently, Rathalos was already in the Metal Gear series this past decade. I thought the massive Monster Hunter crossover stuff was more recent, but I was wrong.

Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker

Monster Hunter was a multi-million seller since its inception, with both 4 Ultimate and Generations selling over 4 million (though the winner was Portable 3rd-- Japanese only on the PSP in 2011 --with 5 million sales, before World decided to release a different game under the series name and grab 8 million sales + 2 million in preorders in areas it hasn't released in already).

And TBF Big Boss was the one who got to fight Rathalos (and Tigrex)-- not Solid Snake.

And Marth gets to refight him as well:

Edited August 11, 2018 by The DanMan

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Apperently he has a unique side tilt too according to reddit which would be cool if true.

It's not really a unique side tilt. It just has a slightly different animation because Chrom doesn't hold his sword in a reverse grip. What we do know though is that Chrom's Up-Smash hits three times instead of five, which is less than Roy's Up-Smash but more than Marthcina's Up-Smash, which only hit once.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, Water Mage said:

Yeah, that came to mind. One of Peach’s greatest strength is her mobility. But considering the floating is an ability heavily associated with Peach, I don’t see Daisy getting. And Daisy being stronger and slower can be because in most Mario spin-offs sports games, Daisy tends to have more physical strength than Peach. In Mario Golf Toadstool Tour, Daisy was actually the third strongest character losing only to DK and Bowser. Yes, Daisy was stronger than Wario in that game.

Still, not float and slow sounds a bit too harshly anti-Daisy. I'd say making her actually faster than Peach on the ground would be better. Peach has the superior air game, Daisy has the superior ground game.

 

2 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

The original Metal Gear was first released on the MSX2, the NES version was a port that Kojima had no involvement with (though the NES version was the first Metal Gear game to be released in America).

And the port was inferior, no? I think they actually had to scrap the Metal Gear in the game for a mother computer boss or something.

Richter actually has the same problem, since Rondo Blood SNES version is poorer than its PC Engine original. But Castlevania did with Simon start on the NES, and continued that way for another three games.

 

[Jedi]

58 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Still, not float and slow sounds a bit too harshly anti-Daisy. I'd say making her actually faster than Peach on the ground would be better. Peach has the superior air game, Daisy has the superior ground game.

 

And the port was inferior, no? I think they actually had to scrap the Metal Gear in the game for a mother computer boss or something.

Richter actually has the same problem, since Rondo Blood SNES version is poorer than its PC Engine original. But Castlevania did with Simon start on the NES, and continued that way for another three games.

 

Rondo of Blood SNES is called Dracula X and it uses Rondo assets to make its own game.

Its often considered the worst classicvania due to its very terrible design and punishing difficulty.

While Rondo Of Blood is considered one of the more forgiving and balanced Classicvanias.

[The DanMan]

So, something @Laser Taro pointed out in the SF FEW discord server: Street Fighter has 36 songs.

...For some reason I'm thinking it's safe to assume a shoto's in as a Ryu echo.

[Dai]

I love the taunt where Chrom rests his sword on his palm. It looks as if he’s about to use Pointy Demon-Spanker for its Naga-intended purpose.

[Water Mage]

19 hours ago, The DanMan said:

So, something @Laser Taro pointed out in the SF FEW discord server: Street Fighter has 36 songs.

  Hide contents

 

...For some reason I'm thinking it's safe to assume a shoto's in as a Ryu echo.

You mean like Ken or Akuma? 

If so, I think Akuma is more likely, because he tends to appear in crossovers. Which is rather interesting because it was a cameo appearance of Akuma in a X-Men game that was the inspiration for the Marvel vs Capcom series, from what I’ve been told. It would be fitting for Akuma to appear in Smash if that’s true.

[NoirCore]

25 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

You mean like Ken or Akuma? 

If so, I think Akuma is more likely, because he tends to appear in crossovers. Which is rather interesting because it was a cameo appearance of Akuma in a X-Men game that was the inspiration for the Marvel vs Capcom series, from what I’ve been told. It would be fitting for Akuma to appear in Smash if that’s true.

Ehh... Ken has that reputation of being super alike to Ryu, so I feel like he'd be more likely to be a Ryu Echo over Akuma. Ken himself has shown up in crossovers over Akuma in the form of the Namco x Capcom/Project X Zone series, though those games are admittedly strategy-based with combo elements. Also, if I recall, does Akuma actually have a super similar moveset to Ryu?

[Silverly]

I think the only thing Akuma has over Ken is the supposed “Heroes vs villains” theme that the game allegedly has. However, M. Bison is a much more iconic villain in the Street Fighter series than Akuma will ever be, and there’s no way in hell that he’ll be given a mere echo should he appear in Smash. Ken is sort of the Luigi to Ryu’s Mario, so I think he should have the spot as for that. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by SilvertheShadow

[Lord_Brand]

On 8/11/2018 at 7:55 PM, The DanMan said:

So, something @Laser Taro pointed out in the SF FEW discord server: Street Fighter has 36 songs.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

...For some reason I'm thinking it's safe to assume a shoto's in as a Ryu echo.

One of those 36 had better be Guile's Theme.

[Armagon]

So there's this leak that everyone is saying is now credible because of the recent Direct.

Spoiler

(sorry for the low-res, blame Twitter)

Everyone's saying it's legit because it got some characters from the Direct right but there's some glaring holes here that people are missing.

1. "The Simon Belmot leaker got the Castelvania IP right but not the character. Richter was among those listed". Both Simon and Richter are in the game, but according to this guy, Richter was the only Castlevania character in the demo's code.....which makes no sense since he's an Echo Fighter. Why would Richter be in the code but not Simon?
2. He somehow wants us to believe that he got a copy of the demo at CEO.....when it's being guarded by Nintendo themselves. This is like those Nintendo Direct leaks where they supposedly get a spreadsheet of everything that's going to be revealed.

Spoiler

   3. The hell does "Mario 2" mean? He thinks it might be Paper Mario, which admittedly, is a decently requested fighter, but then he also thinks it might be Super Mario 64 Mario.....which makes no sense. 

   4. Him getting K.Rool and Dark Samus aren't that impressive. Those are really safe bets.

 

[The DanMan]

38 minutes ago, Armagon said:

So there's this leak that everyone is saying is now credible because of the recent Direct.

  Reveal hidden contents

(sorry for the low-res, blame Twitter)

Everyone's saying it's legit because it got some characters from the Direct right but there's some glaring holes here that people are missing.

1. "The Simon Belmot leaker got the Castelvania IP right but not the character. Richter was among those listed". Both Simon and Richter are in the game, but according to this guy, Richter was the only Castlevania character in the demo's code.....which makes no sense since he's an Echo Fighter. Why would Richter be in the code but not Simon?
2. He somehow wants us to believe that he got a copy of the demo at CEO.....when it's being guarded by Nintendo themselves. This is like those Nintendo Direct leaks where they supposedly get a spreadsheet of everything that's going to be revealed.

  Reveal hidden contents

   3. The hell does "Mario 2" mean? He thinks it might be Paper Mario, which admittedly, is a decently requested fighter, but then he also thinks it might be Super Mario 64 Mario.....which makes no sense. 

   4. Him getting K.Rool and Dark Samus aren't that impressive. Those are really safe bets.

 

I mean, I've seen both those things pointed out. The latter is the kicker and the biggest strike against this. The former could possibly be explained by Richter being the original after all (due to originating a lot of the moves like the slide, aerial kick, Grand Cross, and so on while being able to do everything Simon could), with Simon only being added later and becoming the main character. But that's purely speculation.

The choice of Pokemon representing two unepped gens makes this too good to be true for me-- I'd love it to be the case, but it also sounds out there.

Really, the only clout this holds is that he had Richter when nobody else did-- until we get another character from this, I'm going to say it's a lucky fake.

[Jotari]

Richter and Simon were clearly developed simultaneously, as I expect Roy and Marth were back in Melee, that's why the base moveset has thing from both of them. Or in other words, moveset are designed for characters, but moveset are still designed first.

[Florete]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

So there's this leak that everyone is saying is now credible because of the recent Direct.

  Reveal hidden contents

(sorry for the low-res, blame Twitter)

Everyone's saying it's legit because it got some characters from the Direct right but there's some glaring holes here that people are missing.

1. "The Simon Belmot leaker got the Castelvania IP right but not the character. Richter was among those listed". Both Simon and Richter are in the game, but according to this guy, Richter was the only Castlevania character in the demo's code.....which makes no sense since he's an Echo Fighter. Why would Richter be in the code but not Simon?
2. He somehow wants us to believe that he got a copy of the demo at CEO.....when it's being guarded by Nintendo themselves. This is like those Nintendo Direct leaks where they supposedly get a spreadsheet of everything that's going to be revealed.

  Reveal hidden contents

   3. The hell does "Mario 2" mean? He thinks it might be Paper Mario, which admittedly, is a decently requested fighter, but then he also thinks it might be Super Mario 64 Mario.....which makes no sense. 

   4. Him getting K.Rool and Dark Samus aren't that impressive. Those are really safe bets.

 

I've seen this before and while I'm remaining cautious, I'm siding with it as being real. How many of us not only were at CEO, but helped work it and could say if this was plausible or not? Mario2 is probably nothing, like a test dummy or something. Getting K. Rool and Dark Samus right is not too impressive by itself, but they still help its credibility considering it "survived" this past direct.

[Silverly]

“Mario2” probably doesn’t stand for another Mario, it sounds like a placeholder for another character in the series. If it is another Mario though, it’ll most likely be Paper Mario.

Gardevoir makes sense because it has a following, but Gothitelle is just bizarre. I know it could work as an echo due to the similar size and stature of each other, but having Gothitelle as a rep for Gen 5 doesn’t make sense when there’s more recognizable Pokémon from there like Zoroark and Oshawott.

Honestly the leak itself looks plausible. The methods of finding it is a bit fishy, but maybe the leaker is telling the truth or perhaps lied about how he obtained the information for whatever reason.

[Jedi]

1 minute ago, SilvertheShadow said:

“Mario2” probably doesn’t stand for another Mario, it sounds like a placeholder for another character in the series. If it is another Mario though, it’ll most likely be Paper Mario.

Gardevoir makes sense because it has a following, but Gothitelle is just bizarre. I know it could work as an echo due to the similar size and stature of each other, but having Gothitelle as a rep for Gen 5 doesn’t make sense when there’s more recognizable Pokémon from there like Zoroark and Oshawott.

Honestly the leak itself looks plausible. The methods of finding it is a bit fishy, but maybe the leaker is telling the truth or perhaps lied about how he obtained the information for whatever reason.

Gothitelle just seems like the kind of bizarre thing Sakurai would do for giggles.

Not sure where I stand on this particular leak besides it needing to be looked at closer.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Random thought, thinking on Etrian Odyssey, I could see them making an Assist Trophy out of the "mascot" blonde female Protector that has frequently, if not always appeared in EO advertising artwork. She might swing a sword a few times, but otherwise she either applies a reduced-damage and maybe no-flinch aura to the summoner (and allies in Team Smash), like a -Guard skill. Or she could use something like Bravery's Gift or Ally Shield and use herself to block the hits her summoner would take.

 

11 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

One of those 36 had better be Guile's Theme.

Imagine if they were all remixes of Ken's and Ryu's stage themes.

[Jedi]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Imagine if they were all remixes of Ken's and Ryu's stage themes.

Already deconfirmed, by Vegas theme being on the site.

[Lord_Brand]

I would say Zoroark is the most appropriate Gen 5 rep, but it's a pokeball pokemon again, so more likely it's one of the starters. Serperior would be my personal pick, because snek.

[Silverly]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

I would say Zoroark is the most appropriate Gen 5 rep, but it's a pokeball pokemon again, so more likely it's one of the starters. Serperior would be my personal pick, because snek.

Serperior is kinda awkward because it absolutely no limbs, which is kinda important for fighting and all. I think Snivy could work though.

[Florete]

6 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

“Mario2” probably doesn’t stand for another Mario, it sounds like a placeholder for another character in the series. If it is another Mario though, it’ll most likely be Paper Mario.

Gardevoir makes sense because it has a following, but Gothitelle is just bizarre. I know it could work as an echo due to the similar size and stature of each other, but having Gothitelle as a rep for Gen 5 doesn’t make sense when there’s more recognizable Pokémon from there like Zoroark and Oshawott.

Honestly the leak itself looks plausible. The methods of finding it is a bit fishy, but maybe the leaker is telling the truth or perhaps lied about how he obtained the information for whatever reason.

If this turns out to be real, my assumption will be that Sakurai wanted a Pokemon from each generation. With gen 3 and 5 missing after Pichu's return, the easiest way would be to pick one from each of gen 3 and 5 that can share a moveset. Gardevoir is a pretty popular Pokemon and Gothitelle was probably considered similar enough and is from gen 5. He would have planned from the beginning for Gardevoir and Gothitelle to have the same moveset.

[Anacybele]

My pick for gen 5 would be Keldeo. And I don't think we ever saw it in a trailer. It's also the 18th most popular Pokemon in Japan according to a poll awhile back. But I kinda still have my doubts there.

Gen 6, I'd go Delphox, I guess. Gen 7, Primarina, if somehow it could work without having back limbs. Maybe it can move across the stage like Ruto does in HW? But I think Decidueye has a much higher chance here anyway.

I'm happy for Castlevania fans, and Richter is hot. :D But I'm disappointed that Dixie Kong wasn't announced with K. Rool. I feel like this means she's not in. But I can still hope. I really want her, she's so cute and I feel she's overdue since she's been a major playable character in DK games for a long time now. She wouldn't be that hard to implement either since she has 3D models and can use a few of Diddy's moves with an alteration or two.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Anacybele