Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

But Lucina is still like 99% the same as Marth so she's an Echo Fighter. Literally the same moveset. So i don't know if that was the best example.

Yeah, but she lacks Marth's gimmick. So an Echo of Cloud that lacks Cloud's gimmick is perfectly possible. That's the point.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Jotari

[Jedi]

Y'know all the cool changes and everything Sakurai is doing is just spectacular. 

Like I'd been asking for Stock Stamina for years and now we have it, etc.

[thecrimsonflash]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

Y'know all the cool changes and everything Sakurai is doing is just spectacular. 

Like I'd been asking for Stock Stamina for years and now we have it, etc.

I'm really excited at the prospect of stamina being a legitimate way to play the game.

[Armagon]

While i don't think stamina being the norm will happen, i'd love for it to at least have a decent presence in the competitive scene. Hell, i'd be an advocate for stamina matches. Let's legalize them.

It all depends on how much stamina we can have, though i'm guessing it'll cap at 999. Add three or four stocks to that and we'd have some pretty interesting matches. Indie Pogo, a Smash-inspired game, has stamina as it's main mode so if they could do it, so could Smash.

[Jedi]

I think Stamina would be an excellent side event.

[Lord-Zero]

19 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

He is clearly overcompensating with that hair.

I would like to ask, what your thought process is in having ninian as a zelda echo, she cannot warp, she performs no magical attacks, she cannot summon, she doesn't have access to any form of reflector, even in heroes the best we have is bride ninian who was a mage and regular ninian who would at best be a unique fighter given the need to incorporate her dragon form into her moveset.

and as for celica, robin makes way more sense, given celica having an inability to warp, and cannot summon (amiibo wasn't in the original game and if you want to count it anyways, alm could do the same), I don't see a proper din's fire equivalent (though magic can be roughly whatever it needs to be, within reason, it is still a waste) and celica didn't have barrier.

“Thought process”? You’re thinking too much and sticking way too much to the source material. Smash takes liberties all over the place. 

Anyway...not that I was completely serious about those 2 in particular: 

Ninian: Change spell effects that aren’t ice into ice. Light magic gets changed to light blue. Her specials can be named after her rings. 

- Neutral Special: Ninis’s Grace: The reflector move can just become an ice wall like Fjorm’s skill in FEH. Ice themed version of the original Nayru’s Love can still be used. 

- Side Special: Filla’s Might: Din’s Fire but with ice. 

- Up Special: Set’s Litany: A reskinned Farore’s Wind can work here. A reskinned Draconic Ascent could work as well. Sprouting wings should be no problem. 

- Down Special: Thor’s Ire: Nosferatu reskin, Lucario’s Double Team or Shulk’s vision could be used here. That or she summons an ice knight/ice Eliwood as her “phantom” move.  

The FS could either be the dragon transformation, a dance (a reskinned Peach FS that does damage or stuns opponents instead), a blizzard or basically Pokeball Articuno’s freezing attack. 

Celica: She has a nice array of spells from her source material so those can be worked in or tweaked to fit. For Down Special, she can be given Marth’s Counter. Din’s Fire can be tweaked into a weaker Ragnarok or Fire spell. Neutral Special can be a tweaked Gaiden Seraphim and have the mini angels form a quick barrier around her. Farore’s Wind gets replaced by Excalibur which would be a tweaked Robin’s Gliding Elwind custom special. Celica is much more of a magic user which is why I brought up Zelda instead or Robin as her base. FS would be Ragnarok Omega. 

Don’t take these too seriously, though. My original proposal of Ninian that I remember writing over 7 years ago had Ninian’s specials give her temporary buffs just like Shulk’s Monado Arts special. Said buffs would be based on her rings’ effects from FE7. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Lord-Zero

[thecrimsonflash]

3 hours ago, Lord-Zero said:

“Thought process”? You’re thinking too much and sticking way too much to the source material. Smash takes liberties all over the place. 

Anyway...not that I was completely serious about those 2 in particular: 

Ninian: Change spell effects that aren’t ice into ice. Light magic gets changed to light blue. Her specials can be named after her rings. 

- Neutral Special: Ninis’s Grace: The reflector move can just become an ice wall like Fjorm’s skill in FEH. Ice themed version of the original Nayru’s Love can still be used. 

- Side Special: Filla’s Might: Din’s Fire but with ice. 

- Up Special: Set’s Litany: A reskinned Farore’s Wind can work here. A reskinned Draconic Ascent could work as well. Sprouting wings should be no problem. 

- Down Special: Thor’s Ire: Nosferatu reskin, Lucario’s Double Team or Shulk’s vision could be used here. That or she summons an ice knight/ice Eliwood as her “phantom” move.  

The FS could either be the dragon transformation, a dance (a reskinned Peach FS that does damage or stuns opponents instead), a blizzard or basically Pokeball Articuno’s freezing attack. 

Celica: She has a nice array of spells from her source material so those can be worked in or tweaked to fit. For Down Special, she can be given Marth’s Counter. Din’s Fire can be tweaked into a weaker Ragnarok or Fire spell. Neutral Special can be a tweaked Gaiden Seraphim and have the mini angels form a quick barrier around her. Farore’s Wind gets replaced by Excalibur which would be a tweaked Robin’s Gliding Elwind custom special. Celica is much more of a magic user which is why I brought up Zelda instead or Robin as her base. FS would be Ragnarok Omega. 

Don’t take these too seriously, though. My original proposal of Ninian that I remember writing over 7 years ago had Ninian’s specials give her temporary buffs just like Shulk’s Monado Arts special. Said buffs would be based on her rings’ effects from FE7. 

while I will give you ninis' grace, all of these are buffs to allies and have no effect on ninian herself ingame, while I will say that that is not a dealbreaker none of them have any clear effect outside of these buffs, they all have the same animation and while smash bros may take liberties on occasion, the liberties make sense and/or are not very apparent, marth's moveset has little to do with the source material (outside of idle speculation on the part of fans, dancing blade may or may not be based on asta and dolphin slash may or may not be related to the myrmidon animation) but it makes sense either way, marth uses a sword, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make a fairly generic sword moveset based on a fencing style, same with falcon he is fairly buff and his moveset fundamentally is incredibly basic, the falcon punch most likely is derived from his superhero esque design and name, the point I am making is that this is shoehorning an unreliseable character into smash bros. for the sake of adding them.

as for celica, robin is portrayed as way more of a mage than celica is, there was not a single cutscene where robin's ability to use swords is ever acknowledged, meanwhile celica's default weapon is a sword, you can go the entirety of awakening and never have robin even touch a sword, but then we have celica who starts the game with a sword in her inventory (and not a ring to make her magic better), and in SoV she has a freaking signature weapon which is a sword, even ragnarok isn't even some exclusive spell that only she can use because delthia can learn it, not to mention that ragnarok omega is still an art only useable after getting and mastering beloved zofia, which is a sword, so I will hear none of this "celica really is more of a mage" crap, because that is an abjectly false statement and requires one to ignore several gameplay elements from SoV.

and on a side note, that whole seraphim thing is ridiculous, you say tweaked, that is like the difference between getting a nose job vs getting complete facial reconstructive surgery, one you may miss depending on the gravity, they other is impossible to miss,  nayru's love was originally derived from a defensive ability (which is why I gave you ninis' grace), but seraphim was purely offensive, it makes little sense to fundamentally change the way a move works, the only reason why I use barrier as a nayru's love stand in is because it actually defends.

Edit: Also, you seem to think that source material is virtually irrelevant, a good chunk of what makes smash bros. great is the level of thought put into each character, changes can be made to make a move work better in a fighting game context, but if you need to fundamentally change a move to make it work why are you even bothering to try to make the character work at all outside of favoritism?

Edited August 17, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[Jotari]

22 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

while I will give you ninis' grace, all of these are buffs to allies and have no effect on ninian herself ingame, while I will say that that is not a dealbreaker none of them have any clear effect outside of these buffs, they all have the same animation and while smash bros may take liberties on occasion, the liberties make sense and/or are not very apparent, marth's moveset has little to do with the source material (outside of idle speculation on the part of fans, dancing blade may or may not be based on asta and dolphin slash may or may not be related to the myrmidon animation) but it makes sense either way, marth uses a sword, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make a fairly generic sword moveset based on a fencing style, same with falcon he is fairly buff and his moveset fundamentally is incredibly basic, the falcon punch most likely is derived from his superhero esque design and name, the point I am making is that this is shoehorning an unreliseable character into smash bros. for the sake of adding them.

as for celica, robin is portrayed as way more of a mage than celica is, there was not a single cutscene where robin's ability to use swords is ever acknowledged, meanwhile celica's default weapon is a sword, you can go the entirety of awakening and never have robin even touch a sword, but then we have celica who starts the game with a sword in her inventory (and not a ring to make her magic better), and in SoV she has a freaking signature weapon which is a sword, even ragnarok isn't even some exclusive spell that only she can use because delthia can learn it, not to mention that ragnarok omega is still an art only useable after getting and mastering beloved zofia, which is a sword, so I will hear none of this "celica really is more of a mage" crap, because that is an abjectly false statement and requires one to ignore several gameplay elements from SoV.

and on a side note, that whole seraphim thing is ridiculous, you say tweaked, that is like the difference between getting a nose job vs getting complete facial reconstructive surgery, one you may miss depending on the gravity, they other is impossible to miss,  nayru's love was originally derived from a defensive ability (which is why I gave you ninis' grace), but seraphim was purely offensive, it makes little sense to fundamentally change the way a move works, the only reason why I use barrier as a nayru's love stand in is because it actually defends.

Edit: Also, you seem to think that source material is virtually irrelevant, a good chunk of what makes smash bros. great is the level of thought put into each character, changes can be made to make a move work better in a fighting game context, but if you need to fundamentally change a move to make it work why are you even bothering to try to make the character work at all outside of favoritism?

Actually most of Marth's animation come from Swordmasters in Thracia 776. He also has Roy's Binding Blade attack for a forward Smash (which is why I find it disappointing they replaced it on Roy instead of Marth comes Smash 4) and his Up Smash is clearly based on a sword gesture he commonly dies ever since the NES days. Lastly of course, Counter is based on the universal mechanic in Fire Emblem. Really, despite how generic it looks, they did a really good job on Marth's moveset. The only thing that's really missing is the Shield if Seals, for some strange reason (and maybe that's caused a ripple effect because the Shield of Seals seems like it's been ignored in basically all other media featuring Marth).

[Jedi]

Interesting detail in that the Knight in the Background of Castle Siege seems to have been changed up.

[King Marth 64]

42 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Interesting detail in that the Knight in the Background of Castle Siege seems to have been changed up.

Huh? Is it me or does that Knight that was far away looked like the Black Knight? I noticed that Knight looked like he appears to be having a Red Cloak in Ultimate and a Red Cape in the Wii U version. I never noticed that Knight far away for years since Brawl.

Edited August 19, 2018 by King Marth 64

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Interesting detail in that the Knight in the Background of Castle Siege seems to have been changed up.

 

50 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

Huh? Is it me or does that Knight that was far away looked like the Black Knight? I noticed that Knight looked like he appears to be having a Red Cloak in Ultimate and a Red Cape in the Wii U version. I never noticed that Knight far away for years since Brawl.

It looks like most of the knights have been changed, the entirety of the scene looks different in some ways. Has gone from Daein to Valm, or maybe Begnion.

Whether this means the lord of Unstoppable Destiny will be taking up arms, I don't think we can say. But this would clear up a semi-oddity if he were in, particularly if playable.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Interesting detail in that the Knight in the Background of Castle Siege seems to have been changed up.

What the...? Are the soldiers no longer sprites?

1 hour ago, King Marth 64 said:

Huh? Is it me or does that Knight that was far away looked like the Black Knight? I noticed that Knight looked like he appears to be having a Red Cloak in Ultimate and a Red Cape in the Wii U version. I never noticed that Knight far away for years since Brawl.

Yep, it's the Black Knight in all ways but name 

Black Knight is one of the DLC Mii fighter costumes for the last game. And all those characters are on the watch list of speculation for potential new fighters or assist trophies. Black Knight as an Echo fighter? Perhaps a stage boss for this new mystery mode? The possibilities.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Glennstavos

[thecrimsonflash]

2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Yep, it's the Black Knight in all ways but name 

some could argue that there are differences, but I argue that those differences are intended to make it more obvious from a distance.

I kind of hope that the soldiers are animated like the crowd in the boxing ring, they can at least give us that since they won't give us the face of the devil himself(image not available, just zoom in on the crowd in the boxing ring, they are human popsicles who all bear the face of the dark one).

on the topic of the black knight, yes please, that is really my only wanted character (who has a shot) and this change does fill me with even more hope on the matter, if that did happen, all of sakurai's current and future sins (relating to ultimate) would be forgiven, even adding chrom, I wouldn't even care if he was an ike echo fighter.

Edited August 20, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[Johann]

4 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Yep, it's the Black Knight in all ways but name 

Woah, I never knew that, that's amazing. Don't think I ever even looked to see if there was anyone on that throne.

@JediThe general on the throne in Ultimate looks to me like a generic enemy general like with the GBA sprites. I already have strong suspicions that BK will appear either as a boss, AT, or echo (leaning towards boss due to his size), but this I think reinforces that idea in my head.

 

[Armagon]

I don't think this means anything tbh. It's far too minuscule of a change to be an indicator of anything, especially since the general on the throne wasn't even the Black Knight, just someone who looks like him. Honestly, had it not been pointed out, i wouldn't have even noticed the change.

[NoirCore]

I'm curious how future Smash announcements will be handled. We've had two Smash-focused Directs thus far, and even if it's their cash cow, I can't see a third straight Smash-focused Direct (barring the Indie Showcase on the UK YouTube channel). There'd be too much complaints about their focus.

[Jedi]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

I don't think this means anything tbh. It's far too minuscule of a change to be an indicator of anything, especially since the general on the throne wasn't even the Black Knight, just someone who looks like him. Honestly, had it not been pointed out, i wouldn't have even noticed the change.

I think it being so minor of a change makes it worth looking into meanwhile. It could mean nothing but why would they even change it?

55 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

I'm curious how future Smash announcements will be handled. We've had two Smash-focused Directs thus far, and even if it's their cash cow, I can't see a third straight Smash-focused Direct (barring the Indie Showcase on the UK YouTube channel). There'd be too much complaints about their focus.

I don’t think the people that’d complain would be the majority, it’s Smash after all.

[Florete]

I think there will be another Smash-centered direct about a month before the game's launch with quicker reveals here and there along the way.

[Johann]

2 hours ago, Florete said:

I think there will be another Smash-centered direct about a month before the game's launch with quicker reveals here and there along the way.

I concur with this. For one, he explicitly said that all characters will be revealed before the game launches, and there's still the new mystery mode to explain. On top of this, there'll likely be direct for the launch of the Switch online features in September, which would be a great time to reveal a character and talk about the game's online components.

[Armagon]

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

I think it being so minor of a change makes it worth looking into meanwhile. It could mean nothing but why would they even change it?

It was probably just a result of the visual glowup that every stage has gotten (except for the Smash 64 stages). Background elements being changed or removed means nothing, especially since we still have King Dedede appearing on Dream Land's background and Spirit Track Toon Link appearing on Spirit Train despite being playable characters. Then you have the Moon being both a background element in Great Bay and an Assist Trophy. I wouldn't look into this at all since it's on the same tier of people suggesting that that picture of Marth and Link fighting a Rathalos hints towards Golden Sun representation.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Armagon

[Nébulya]

Wow never saw it was black knight! Never paid attention at all. As someone said, the fact that something so minor has been changed increase the possibility for Zelgius. Damn, if Skull Kid, Black Shadow and him are added.. :D atm I was right about every characters. It'll be good, because Fire Emblem doesn't have any bad guy. Daraen could be one..? Because..! But damn I'm dreaming now. 

[thecrimsonflash]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

It was probably just a result of the visual glowup that every stage has gotten (except for the Smash 64 stages). Background elements being changed or removed means nothing, especially since we still have King Dedede appearing on Dream Land's background and Spirit Track Toon Link appearing on Spirit Train despite being playable characters. Then you have the Moon being both a background element in Great Bay and an Assist Trophy. I wouldn't look into this at all since it's on the same tier of people suggesting that that picture of Marth and Link fighting a Rathalos hints towards Golden Sun representation.

given how meticulously they other models recreate the original sprites, this would have required someone to actively look at this and say to change it, most of the more major changes are to make the art style flow better, but this seems strange to change, given how anal sakurai can be about details, I doubt he would make/allow changes like this lightly, even if it is a simple reference. This is also different in that the moon was perfectly static and would require only one animation from the same angle to work on all stages, and toon link on spirit tracks was replaced with alphonso when toon link is present as a fighter, this is a change that removes a reference, that just doesn't seem right when you think about it it would be like removing dedede or just using alphonso by default.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, thecrimsonflash said:

this is a change that removes a reference, that just doesn't seem right when you think about it it would be like removing dedede or just using alphonso by default.

Thing is, it was hardly a reference. The change could easily be explained by having it look more accurate to the general General design seen across the FE series instead of having it just look like the Black Knight. I mean, considering it's Smash, i always found it weird that the BK lookalike in Castle Siege was just a lookalike and not the real deal.

I'll gladly accept being proven wrong in this case but i would rather not get my hopes up by overanalyzing such a tiny detail only to be left disappointed later.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Armagon

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I def think we're in for one more Smash focused Direct in November. Especially with the coy tease of the mystery mode "We can't talk about that now". However, a general nintendo direct in September is pretty likely in my imo. Next Month's online service probably isn't getting any spotlight now that it seems clear they have nothing of substance to say about it or its future. But hey I'd want to remind people a Mario Party is coming out in October. They may even pop the cork on Yoshi Switch, but I find it easier to believe that game is in the same development hell as Wooly World since it has no specified quarter of 2019, nor an official title. Indie filler is also to be expected. They hyped up Undertale which is next month. No More Heroes: Travis Strikes Again is also slated for this year and might be a surprise shadow drop like Hollow Knight was at E3. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Glennstavos

[Jedi]

Chrom and Lucina vs Dark Samus and Ridley 

 

Snake Vs K Rool