Lightchao42

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Krool Captain N Reunion

Because just how many is "too many"?  

86 members have voted

  1. 1. How many more non-echo newcomers do you expect?


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  • Poll closes on 12/07/18 at 06:45 PM

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2 hours ago, Armagon said:

But Lucina is still like 99% the same as Marth so she's an Echo Fighter. Literally the same moveset. So i don't know if that was the best example.

Yeah, but she lacks Marth's gimmick. So an Echo of Cloud that lacks Cloud's gimmick is perfectly possible. That's the point.

Edited by Jotari

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Y'know all the cool changes and everything Sakurai is doing is just spectacular. 

Like I'd been asking for Stock Stamina for years and now we have it, etc.

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2 hours ago, Jedi said:

Y'know all the cool changes and everything Sakurai is doing is just spectacular. 

Like I'd been asking for Stock Stamina for years and now we have it, etc.

I'm really excited at the prospect of stamina being a legitimate way to play the game.

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While i don't think stamina being the norm will happen, i'd love for it to at least have a decent presence in the competitive scene. Hell, i'd be an advocate for stamina matches. Let's legalize them.

It all depends on how much stamina we can have, though i'm guessing it'll cap at 999. Add three or four stocks to that and we'd have some pretty interesting matches. Indie Pogo, a Smash-inspired game, has stamina as it's main mode so if they could do it, so could Smash.

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19 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

He is clearly overcompensating with that hair.

I would like to ask, what your thought process is in having ninian as a zelda echo, she cannot warp, she performs no magical attacks, she cannot summon, she doesn't have access to any form of reflector, even in heroes the best we have is bride ninian who was a mage and regular ninian who would at best be a unique fighter given the need to incorporate her dragon form into her moveset.

and as for celica, robin makes way more sense, given celica having an inability to warp, and cannot summon (amiibo wasn't in the original game and if you want to count it anyways, alm could do the same), I don't see a proper din's fire equivalent (though magic can be roughly whatever it needs to be, within reason, it is still a waste) and celica didn't have barrier.

“Thought process”? You’re thinking too much and sticking way too much to the source material. Smash takes liberties all over the place. 

Anyway...not that I was completely serious about those 2 in particular: 

Ninian: Change spell effects that aren’t ice into ice. Light magic gets changed to light blue. Her specials can be named after her rings. 

- Neutral Special: Ninis’s Grace: The reflector move can just become an ice wall like Fjorm’s skill in FEH. Ice themed version of the original Nayru’s Love can still be used. 

- Side Special: Filla’s Might: Din’s Fire but with ice. 

- Up Special: Set’s Litany: A reskinned Farore’s Wind can work here. A reskinned Draconic Ascent could work as well. Sprouting wings should be no problem. 

- Down Special: Thor’s Ire: Nosferatu reskin, Lucario’s Double Team or Shulk’s vision could be used here. That or she summons an ice knight/ice Eliwood as her “phantom” move.  

The FS could either be the dragon transformation, a dance (a reskinned Peach FS that does damage or stuns opponents instead), a blizzard or basically Pokeball Articuno’s freezing attack. 

Celica: She has a nice array of spells from her source material so those can be worked in or tweaked to fit. For Down Special, she can be given Marth’s Counter. Din’s Fire can be tweaked into a weaker Ragnarok or Fire spell. Neutral Special can be a tweaked Gaiden Seraphim and have the mini angels form a quick barrier around her. Farore’s Wind gets replaced by Excalibur which would be a tweaked Robin’s Gliding Elwind custom special. Celica is much more of a magic user which is why I brought up Zelda instead or Robin as her base. FS would be Ragnarok Omega. 

Don’t take these too seriously, though. My original proposal of Ninian that I remember writing over 7 years ago had Ninian’s specials give her temporary buffs just like Shulk’s Monado Arts special. Said buffs would be based on her rings’ effects from FE7. 

Edited by Lord-Zero

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3 hours ago, Lord-Zero said:

“Thought process”? You’re thinking too much and sticking way too much to the source material. Smash takes liberties all over the place. 

Anyway...not that I was completely serious about those 2 in particular: 

Ninian: Change spell effects that aren’t ice into ice. Light magic gets changed to light blue. Her specials can be named after her rings. 

- Neutral Special: Ninis’s Grace: The reflector move can just become an ice wall like Fjorm’s skill in FEH. Ice themed version of the original Nayru’s Love can still be used. 

- Side Special: Filla’s Might: Din’s Fire but with ice. 

- Up Special: Set’s Litany: A reskinned Farore’s Wind can work here. A reskinned Draconic Ascent could work as well. Sprouting wings should be no problem. 

- Down Special: Thor’s Ire: Nosferatu reskin, Lucario’s Double Team or Shulk’s vision could be used here. That or she summons an ice knight/ice Eliwood as her “phantom” move.  

The FS could either be the dragon transformation, a dance (a reskinned Peach FS that does damage or stuns opponents instead), a blizzard or basically Pokeball Articuno’s freezing attack. 

Celica: She has a nice array of spells from her source material so those can be worked in or tweaked to fit. For Down Special, she can be given Marth’s Counter. Din’s Fire can be tweaked into a weaker Ragnarok or Fire spell. Neutral Special can be a tweaked Gaiden Seraphim and have the mini angels form a quick barrier around her. Farore’s Wind gets replaced by Excalibur which would be a tweaked Robin’s Gliding Elwind custom special. Celica is much more of a magic user which is why I brought up Zelda instead or Robin as her base. FS would be Ragnarok Omega. 

Don’t take these too seriously, though. My original proposal of Ninian that I remember writing over 7 years ago had Ninian’s specials give her temporary buffs just like Shulk’s Monado Arts special. Said buffs would be based on her rings’ effects from FE7. 

while I will give you ninis' grace, all of these are buffs to allies and have no effect on ninian herself ingame, while I will say that that is not a dealbreaker none of them have any clear effect outside of these buffs, they all have the same animation and while smash bros may take liberties on occasion, the liberties make sense and/or are not very apparent, marth's moveset has little to do with the source material (outside of idle speculation on the part of fans, dancing blade may or may not be based on asta and dolphin slash may or may not be related to the myrmidon animation) but it makes sense either way, marth uses a sword, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make a fairly generic sword moveset based on a fencing style, same with falcon he is fairly buff and his moveset fundamentally is incredibly basic, the falcon punch most likely is derived from his superhero esque design and name, the point I am making is that this is shoehorning an unreliseable character into smash bros. for the sake of adding them.

as for celica, robin is portrayed as way more of a mage than celica is, there was not a single cutscene where robin's ability to use swords is ever acknowledged, meanwhile celica's default weapon is a sword, you can go the entirety of awakening and never have robin even touch a sword, but then we have celica who starts the game with a sword in her inventory (and not a ring to make her magic better), and in SoV she has a freaking signature weapon which is a sword, even ragnarok isn't even some exclusive spell that only she can use because delthia can learn it, not to mention that ragnarok omega is still an art only useable after getting and mastering beloved zofia, which is a sword, so I will hear none of this "celica really is more of a mage" crap, because that is an abjectly false statement and requires one to ignore several gameplay elements from SoV.

and on a side note, that whole seraphim thing is ridiculous, you say tweaked, that is like the difference between getting a nose job vs getting complete facial reconstructive surgery, one you may miss depending on the gravity, they other is impossible to miss,  nayru's love was originally derived from a defensive ability (which is why I gave you ninis' grace), but seraphim was purely offensive, it makes little sense to fundamentally change the way a move works, the only reason why I use barrier as a nayru's love stand in is because it actually defends.

Edit: Also, you seem to think that source material is virtually irrelevant, a good chunk of what makes smash bros. great is the level of thought put into each character, changes can be made to make a move work better in a fighting game context, but if you need to fundamentally change a move to make it work why are you even bothering to try to make the character work at all outside of favoritism?

Edited by thecrimsonflash

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22 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

while I will give you ninis' grace, all of these are buffs to allies and have no effect on ninian herself ingame, while I will say that that is not a dealbreaker none of them have any clear effect outside of these buffs, they all have the same animation and while smash bros may take liberties on occasion, the liberties make sense and/or are not very apparent, marth's moveset has little to do with the source material (outside of idle speculation on the part of fans, dancing blade may or may not be based on asta and dolphin slash may or may not be related to the myrmidon animation) but it makes sense either way, marth uses a sword, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make a fairly generic sword moveset based on a fencing style, same with falcon he is fairly buff and his moveset fundamentally is incredibly basic, the falcon punch most likely is derived from his superhero esque design and name, the point I am making is that this is shoehorning an unreliseable character into smash bros. for the sake of adding them.

as for celica, robin is portrayed as way more of a mage than celica is, there was not a single cutscene where robin's ability to use swords is ever acknowledged, meanwhile celica's default weapon is a sword, you can go the entirety of awakening and never have robin even touch a sword, but then we have celica who starts the game with a sword in her inventory (and not a ring to make her magic better), and in SoV she has a freaking signature weapon which is a sword, even ragnarok isn't even some exclusive spell that only she can use because delthia can learn it, not to mention that ragnarok omega is still an art only useable after getting and mastering beloved zofia, which is a sword, so I will hear none of this "celica really is more of a mage" crap, because that is an abjectly false statement and requires one to ignore several gameplay elements from SoV.

and on a side note, that whole seraphim thing is ridiculous, you say tweaked, that is like the difference between getting a nose job vs getting complete facial reconstructive surgery, one you may miss depending on the gravity, they other is impossible to miss,  nayru's love was originally derived from a defensive ability (which is why I gave you ninis' grace), but seraphim was purely offensive, it makes little sense to fundamentally change the way a move works, the only reason why I use barrier as a nayru's love stand in is because it actually defends.

Edit: Also, you seem to think that source material is virtually irrelevant, a good chunk of what makes smash bros. great is the level of thought put into each character, changes can be made to make a move work better in a fighting game context, but if you need to fundamentally change a move to make it work why are you even bothering to try to make the character work at all outside of favoritism?

Actually most of Marth's animation come from Swordmasters in Thracia 776. He also has Roy's Binding Blade attack for a forward Smash (which is why I find it disappointing they replaced it on Roy instead of Marth comes Smash 4) and his Up Smash is clearly based on a sword gesture he commonly dies ever since the NES days. Lastly of course, Counter is based on the universal mechanic in Fire Emblem. Really, despite how generic it looks, they did a really good job on Marth's moveset. The only thing that's really missing is the Shield if Seals, for some strange reason (and maybe that's caused a ripple effect because the Shield of Seals seems like it's been ignored in basically all other media featuring Marth).

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