Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[thecrimsonflash]

28 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Interestingly enough ZeRo said the seemingly weaker Fox in this demo is very like smash 4's invitational Fox which apparently was found under powered but come launch he was pretty dominant again.

I wonder if that'll happen here too

who knows, when sakurai was in part one of the smash bros gameplay showcase and was talking about ridley, ridley did about 50 damage to mario and downed him with one attack and sakurai said that this is not the final version of the game, it was pretty funny because even he looked at it and thought it seemed a bit much. He does seem to be taking some serious notes on this, I recall hearing that he was taking notes at the invitational, which is smart, that would be a perfect sort of test run to really see how everyone works.

[Armagon]

16 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

ridley did about 50 damage to mario and downed him with one attack and sakurai said that this is not the final version of the game, it was pretty funny because even he looked at it and thought it seemed a bit much.

Yeah, i really hope they tone that down. Like, a lot. Roy's Flare Blade does 50% damage too (and usually OHKOs) but that's only when fully-charged. Ridley down-B just requires you to hit the sweetspot with little to no charge. I'm ok with it doing 50% damage if it needs to be fully charged. 

Actually, is that a chargeable move?

[NSSKG151]

I haven't really seen this discussed much but does anyone think we will see new FE characters as assist trophies this time around or will it only be Lyn again? It doesn't look like they will be Einherjar/Breidablik to act like Pokeballs but I would still love to see characters like Caeda, Tiki, Black Knight and Azura come out and help players during battle and I feel like outside of playable characters FE doesn't really have much representation since they only seem to have generic looking stages, a poor or rather limited number of trophies focused on one two games and the music selection seems pretty hit or miss for me too.

[Anomalocaris]

21 minutes ago, NSSKG151 said:

I haven't really seen this discussed much but does anyone think we will see new FE characters as assist trophies this time around or will it only be Lyn again? It doesn't look like they will be Einherjar/Breidablik to act like Pokeballs but I would still love to see characters like Caeda, Tiki, Black Knight and Azura come out and help players during battle and I feel like outside of playable characters FE doesn't really have much representation since they only seem to have generic looking stages, a poor or rather limited number of trophies focused on one two games and the music selection seems pretty hit or miss for me too.

Some items would be nice. Maybe a throwable javelin or tomahawk.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, FE needs more items and trophies imo. Items can include vulneraries and elixirs that heal some damage, throwable weapons like mentioned above, etc. We need more trophies from non-3DS FE games that aren't the playable characters or Lyn. Particularly from Marth's games. Why doesn't Caeda or Young Tiki have a trophy at least? Ike's games can have trophies, but the game belonging to the face of FE can't? :/

[Anomalocaris]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, FE needs more items and trophies imo. Items can include vulneraries and elixirs that heal some damage, throwable weapons like mentioned above, etc. We need more trophies from non-3DS FE games that aren't the playable characters or Lyn. Particularly from Marth's games. Why doesn't Caeda or Young Tiki have a trophy at least? Ike's games can have trophies, but the game belonging to the face of FE can't? :/

The lack of Marth-era trophies is almost certainly due to a lack of 3D models.

You'll notice almost every trophy in the game since Brawl is recycled from the source game's assets.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Anomalocaris said:

The lack of Marth-era trophies is almost certainly due to a lack of 3D models.

You'll notice almost every trophy in the game since Brawl is recycled from the source game's assets.

Well, they got some now thanks to FE Warriors. Maybe Sakurai could borrow them.

[Anomalocaris]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Well, they got some now thanks to FE Warriors. Maybe Sakurai could borrow them.

That would be ideal. Hopefully there's not too many legal obstacles to using assets from Warriors games, both for Fire Emblem and Legend of Zelda's sakes.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

That would be ideal. Hopefully there's not too many legal obstacles to using assets from Warriors games, both for Fire Emblem and Legend of Zelda's sakes.

Yeah, agreed.

[NSSKG151]

2 hours ago, Anomalocaris said:

Some items would be nice. Maybe a throwable javelin or tomahawk.

Didn't even think of that. Having FE related items would be nice considering they had none in smash bros to begin with. They could even do something like have tomes like Thunder and Ruin that can be used a limited number of times before they break unless that interferes with Robin's moveset too much or maybe have a ballista that was used in some levels in Fates and presumedly other FE games.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, NSSKG151 said:

FE doesn't really have much representation since they only seem to have generic looking stages

I would love to see more varied FE stages based off of actual areas from the series as opposed to generic stages that use the Fire Emblem name. Only Arena Ferox is an actual location.

That reminds me, there was an unused Archanea stage in Melee. Why not use that?

[Interdimensional Observer]

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

That reminds me, there was an unused Archanea stage in Melee. Why not use that?

Well looking at what Smash Wiki has to say of it:

Spoiler

AKANEIA is a stage remnant in Super Smash Bros. Melee that can only be accessed through the activation of the debug menu by Action Replay. Both evidence left in the game itself and a comment by Masahiro Sakuraiconfirm that the stage was intended to be a Fire Emblem stage; Fire Emblem is the only universe with playable characters which has no stage of its own in the final version of the game.

The game crashes if a battle is started with AKANEIA designated as the stage via the debug menu. Unlike similar non-playable levels in Melee such as DUMMY and ICETOP, there are no known hacks which allow AKANEIA to be properly accessed, and it is the only stage in all the game that is completely inaccessible. Unsubstantiated rumours claim that pieces of it can be isolated or viewed within the game's data, but no evidence proves that anyone has successfully accessed AKANEIA or discovered any unique elements for it.

When the game crashes from attempting to load AKANEIA, the following error is left in the Log:

ground.c:2310: not found stage param in DAT(grkind=26 stkind=21,num=1) check StageParam.csv or StageItem.csv, stdata.c stageid=0

According to Masahiro Sakurai, responding on Smabura-Ken to a fan's confusion about the Fire Emblem series' lack of a stage, a Fire Emblem stage called アカネイア王国 ("Kingdom of Archanea") was in fact planned to appear in Melee. It was intended to feature onagers slinging boulders at a castle, while dragons and mageswould make appearances in an unspecified role. Unstated circumstances regarding its production resulted in it being scrapped.^[1][2] The unused AKANEIA is a remnant from this plan, as well as the fact that the track "Fire Emblem" is named AKANEIA.HPS within the game's data. The idea of a Fire Emblem stage consisting of a castle under attack would be revisited in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, with the stage Castle Siege.

It sounds like that sans dragons, it became Castle Siege. Although having dragons (which would have worked in the underground part of Castle Siege) and ballistae as actual stage hazards would make it different. 

My issue with a new FE stage is that there are few locations in FE that so readily pop, owing to the nature of FE gameplay calling for more boring places and FE's greater use of realism compared to other Nintendo franchises. Few places are that readily memorable too since FE rarely has two or more fights in one place.

[NSSKG151]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

That reminds me, there was an unused Archanea stage in Melee. Why not use that?

I'm pretty sure Archanea (called Akaneia in Melee's debug menu) from Melee became Castle Seige in Brawl according to Sakurai. I don't think there is even any stage data for Akaneia in Melee because trying to access it crashes the game so no one even knows what the stage was suppose to look like. 

Edit: Drat, someone beat me to it.

Edited June 18, 2018 by NSSKG151
repeated response

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Castle Siege is pretty much Daein Castle with a swapped flag. Even the Black Knight appears in the background of phase 2. 

I think a lot of Fire Emblem games could have some non spoiler location to draw from. Fates stage? Opera House. Echoes stage? Nuibaba's Abode. Three Houses stage? Whatever the rest of that castle looks like because I will never leave to progress the game. 

[Armagon]

22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

My issue with a new FE stage is that there are few locations in FE that so readily pop, owing to the nature of FE gameplay calling for more boring places and FE's greater use of realism compared to other Nintendo franchises. Few places are that readily memorable too since FE rarely has two or more fights in one place.

That's true but there's a few places they could pull from that aren't generic areas. How about the Shrine of Seals from the Elibe games? Or as Glennstavos suggested, the Opera House from Fates?

[Robert Stewart]

One idea for an FE stage is an Askran Kingdom or Order of Heroes stage. Could have that summoning stone thing in the background, and occasionally summon FE characters to attack or something.

Since we've confirmed an FE summoning item isn't happening, this could be an alternative. But it's probably unlikely, I'm not sure we'll get any new FE stage TBH.

[Armagon]

5 minutes ago, Robert of Normandy said:

I'm not sure we'll get any new FE stage TBH.

At most, we'll probably get something that represents another general element of the series. But you're right in that we're probably not getting a new FE stage. Which is fine.

[DisobeyedCargo]

I have an idea for a stage, why not the Dragons table?

it represents several games, specifically Marth's time as well as chrom's, is a recognizable landmark and is an important part of archanean history, while avoiding being a generic stage. 

Alternatively, what about castle Krakenburg? It avoids spoilers since it's literally in the beginning of the game, is an important landmark with unique structures like the thin bridges you see all along it or possibly even the throne room? 

As for hazards, hmm, maybe vallite soldiers or jsut bad weather?

[NinjaMonkey]

On ‎17‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 4:49 AM, Armagon said:

That still creates an unnecessary unbalance. Banning only certain customs would be beneficial to some characters and detrimental to others. 

So rather than having to adapt to custom moves, they just banned them instead. This is exactly why I hate the competitive Smash community.

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

So rather than having to adapt to custom moves, they just banned them instead. This is exactly why I hate the competitive Smash community.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Official_Custom_Moveset_Project

How about you do your research instead of saying things that aren't true. They did try to adapt. But there were so many factors that they decided it'd be better to just ban them. 

[Altrosa]

16 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

So rather than having to adapt to custom moves, they just banned them instead. This is exactly why I hate the competitive Smash community.

I have a counter argument. One major flaw with customization in competitive environments is that meta inevitably enforces set-ups of customized gear or skills that is superior (in some way) over others. Enforcing the default move-set actually makes it a more welcoming environment as you don't need to grind for the alternative moves and no one is pushed out for using the "wrong" set-up.

 

 

EDIT: AAAANNNNDDDDD it looks like the Smash community actually nipped said issues in the bud after testing it out themselves. Thanks for the link, Armagon.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Altrosa

[Jedi]

Yeah even my old Washington local tried it and I had to grind for every single Custom move and set it up on all the Wii U's at the tourney in question (around 20).

it took me a good 5 to 10 minutes per system to upload the custom movesets to each.

I had to arrive a good 3 hours early.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Jedi

[thecrimsonflash]

36 minutes ago, Armagon said:

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Official_Custom_Moveset_Project

How about you do your research instead of saying things that aren't true. They did try to adapt. But there were so many factors that they decided it'd be better to just ban them. 

quite a read there, and after reading jedi's testimony, this sounds like it just wasn't worth the effort to make some characters only slightly better, others no better/worse in comparison, and the top tiers still being top tier.

I would like to add, that a friend of mine suddenly lost all his 3ds smash bros data multiple times, and I also had that happen, and we are typically careful with our devices, but the data was lost all the same, meaning that suddenly you are less tournament viable if you get a corrupted save file.

Edited June 19, 2018 by thecrimsonflash

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I remember being pro custom moves then. Seemed like any arguments you could make were swallowed up by Jank Compilation videos of Windy Kong and Villager's stuff that let him ledge camp. But we did get our testing ground that year and people genuinely weren't into it. I also remember the guy leading the project being kind of a dick and leaving the site sometime later. It was a bad look.

I think the developers were interested in custom moves being viable as well. Two months after EVO there was a patch that tweaked a ton of custom moves. 'Course by then it was too late. Hopefully this time they made them more reasonable to unlock and set. If you could set them right there in the Versus screen, then that'd help. One thing I hated most about the Project was the numbering system left players in the dark. If you're an Ike main, you know what 2222 means, but probably not your opponent until those moves were used in a match. And how does switching a custom loadout fit in to the character/stage selection process?

Edited June 19, 2018 by Glennstavos

[Armagon]

https://nintendowire.com/news/2018/06/18/super-smash-bros-ultimate-to-be-playable-at-ceo-2018/

Smash Ultimate will be playable at CEO 2018, in Daytona Beach, Florida.