Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I want the Smooth Lander effect to come from a Fox sticker that's official artwork of him using Shine.

Speaking of landing lag, if people frame counting the demo are accurate, then we're looking at a handful or more single digit landing lag values on aerials in this game. Everybody is just so fast in that demo. It's like L Cancelling was in the game, but you just don't have to press L anymore. And Dash cancelling is also like crouch cancelling your dash in melee, but you don't have to press down first. This game is low key Melee but with a less harsh skill barrier.

[Jedi]

8 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

I want the Smooth Lander effect to come from a Fox sticker that's official artwork of him using Shine.

Speaking of landing lag, if people frame counting the demo are accurate, then we're looking at a handful or more single digit landing lag values on aerials in this game. Everybody is just so fast in that demo. It's like L Cancelling was in the game, but you just don't have to press L anymore. And Dash cancelling is also like crouch cancelling your dash in melee, but you don't have to press down first. This game is low key Melee but with a less harsh skill barrier.

Aerial and more offensively inclinded game in general seems to be a good direction. Still needs some tweaks though from what I'm hearing.

Aggressive characters will benefit from this games engine heavily while defensive characters might have their play styles altered or become weaker. Probably a character by character basis though since rebalancing.

 

[Water Mage]

So...this stupid thing is happening:

Just the other day I was speaking about how Sakurai is tired of Smash, partially because of fans and this happens...these people are being saltier than Ridley fans.

[Anacybele]

12 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

So...this stupid thing is happening:

Just the other day I was speaking about how Sakurai is tired of Smash, partially because of fans and this happens...these people are being saltier than Ridley fans.

Wow. That is seriously low. It's no wonder the guy has contemplated quitting the series! This is just bullshit.

It's people like these that make me sick because they potentially ruin stuff for other people.

[thecrimsonflash]

15 hours ago, Jedi said:

More gameplay (people who aren't very experienced but still SOUND) also link is auto put at a point where Ridley's win theme is on, it's unique from Samus.

can I just say, I loved that snake gameplay at the start, that bordered on 16 dimensional chess, he had to be thinking like 50 steps ahead, he was thinking so far ahead, he was already playing the next match.

an actually serious question though, was snake's original down smash considered degenerate in brawl meta? I am really sad they changed it, it was so much fun putting down a mine and watching my opponent forget about as much as I did, or they are hyper aware of it and just get rid of it by dodging into it. It never seemed broken to me though.

[Robert Stewart]

3 hours ago, Water Mage said:

So...this stupid thing is happening:

Just the other day I was speaking about how Sakurai is tired of Smash, partially because of fans and this happens...these people are being saltier than Ridley fans.

Completely disgusting. There's absolutely nothing about this game that could justify harassing someone like this.

It's the same mindset that led to all the bile and salt I saw after Smash 4's release, but even then I don't think that anything got this bad. People really need to get out of the mindset that certain characters "deserve" to be in the game.

Hopefully this serves as a wake up call, but I have a feeling we're going to see this play out again as people set up unreasonable expectations for the game.

[Dai]

People would only gripe about Waluigi's moveset anyway. He'd likely get the Wario treatment where they largely made up a bunch of stuff. I mean, it took a decade after Wario was released to give him his shoulder-tackle, right?

[Altrosa]

Waluigi was specifically made for the sports games (why he weilds a racket as an assist) so the most logical way to implement him is to have his move set based around sports moves and items.

The problem is Peach already does that in her smash attacks. Waluigi wouldn't make a good Wario clone either, as Wario is supposed to be repulsive. Waluigi is just a narcissistic asshole. 

Kinda puts his fanbase in perspective.

 

(Honestly wonder if Waluigi is gonna get phased out if his fanbase has this much toxicity. He never served any purpose beyond his being made as a partner for Wario and Miyamoto himself doesn't like him.)

[The DanMan]

57 minutes ago, Dai said:

People would only gripe about Waluigi's moveset anyway. He'd likely get the Wario treatment where they largely made up a bunch of stuff. I mean, it took a decade after Wario was released to give him his shoulder-tackle, right?

He had his shoulder tackle as his side smash in Brawl, but they replaced it with a generic punch in 4. Now it's his dash attack.

[Robert Stewart]

57 minutes ago, Dai said:

People would only gripe about Waluigi's moveset anyway. He'd likely get the Wario treatment where they largely made up a bunch of stuff. I mean, it took a decade after Wario was released to give him his shoulder-tackle, right?

Didn't we see that he has it for his dash attack now or something? I remember seeing it in his trailer, I'd need to double check to be sure though.

[Lord_Brand]

3 hours ago, Altrosa said:

Waluigi was specifically made for the sports games (why he weilds a racket as an assist) so the most logical way to implement him is to have his move set based around sports moves and items.

The problem is Peach already does that in her smash attacks. Waluigi wouldn't make a good Wario clone either, as Wario is supposed to be repulsive. Waluigi is just a narcissistic asshole. 

Kinda puts his fanbase in perspective.

(Honestly wonder if Waluigi is gonna get phased out if his fanbase has this much toxicity. He never served any purpose beyond his being made as a partner for Wario and Miyamoto himself doesn't like him.)

What those certain Waluigi fans did to Sakurai was not cool.

But know what else isn't cool? Throwing every Waluigi fan into the same boat as that obnoxious minority and calling the whole fanbase narcisstic assholes.

Know who else is a fan of Waluigi? Triforce Bun, the author of Brawl in the Family, who made Waluigi a regular character. Hell, look at their webpage right now. Waluigi's plastered all over it. Has Triforce Bun joined in on the Sakurai harassment? Is Triforce Bun a narcisstic asshole?

And the same criticisms levvied at Waluigi here could be applied to Luigi, of all people. "Luigi was just made to be the player 2 character. What moveset potential does he have besides Mario but green?" And similarities between characters are allowed. Hell, we're accepting Echo fighters, but if they're not similar enough, suddenly they're not valid?

Nothing's stopping Miyamoto or Nintendo from transforming Waluigi's character through a more expanded and developed role; say, as Wario's partner in a dedicated Wario & Waluigi title, which could really play up their lovably rotten personalities. But no, "main" Mario games aren't allowed to ever involve Wario, Waluigi, Daisy, or any other spin-off regulars (except when they get costumes in Odyssey, apparently), even though it would not be hard to write in even minor roles for them in the story. And as much respect as I have for Miyamoto, he is not God. He doesn't get to decide what the rest of us do and do not like. Same goes for Sakurai, and every other human being.

I for one happen to like Waluigi, at least the potential he has to be Wario's equally rotten partner-in-crime. I would be sad to see him go, and I would politely voice my desire to see him return through fanart and other works. I'm disappointed he isn't a player character in Smash Ultimate, but you don't see me spamming Sakurai over it. So I hope I don't qualify as a "narcisstic asshole" because I happen to like Luigi's evil twin. And I would appreciate if the entirety of Waluigi's fanbase were not labeled as "narcisstic assholes" simply because certain Waluigi fans made assholes of themselves. The problem there isn't being a Waluigi fan, it's being an asshole fan, which can happen for any character.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Lord_Brand

[***]

13 hours ago, Water Mage said:

So...this stupid thing is happening:

Just the other day I was speaking about how Sakurai is tired of Smash, partially because of fans and this happens...these people are being saltier than Ridley fans.

These people really need to go outside.

[eclipse]

@Altrosa don't paint an entire fanbase by their bad apples.  Hell, don't paint an entire group with one brush.

@Lord_Brand you could've worded that a lot better.  Yes, being lumped in the same category as some of the less desirable elements of your fanbase sucks, but it doesn't warrant an essay of a response.

The only people that deserve any sort of reproach are those that are harassing Sakurai, no matter which character(s) they like.

[The Roger The Paladin]

7 hours ago, eclipse said:

@Altrosa don't paint an entire fanbase by their bad apples.  Hell, don't paint an entire group with one brush.

@Lord_Brand you could've worded that a lot better.  Yes, being lumped in the same category as some of the less desirable elements of your fanbase sucks, but it doesn't warrant an essay of a response.

The only people that deserve any sort of reproach are those that are harassing Sakurai, no matter which character(s) they like.

Painting an entire group with one brush results in crowd-scenes like an old Groo comic. Any time you save is wasted on someone else's confusion.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Zero Suit Samus' new Final Smash feels like a superfluous addition. It's just a slightly shorter, third person perspective version of her previous one. I assume they were worried that this particular character would look totally unchanged (she does. So far).

A bit bummed they didn't give Kirby a new Final Smash involving a Robobot. Oh, who am I kidding, they're saving that for Susie's inclusion. If it were up to me I'd add like three Kirby newcomers.

[The DanMan]

An entire year earlier than people were predicting.

I know several people are jumping for joy over specific characters getting deconfirmed over this.

[Jedi]

5 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

An entire year earlier than people were predicting.

I know several people are jumping for joy over specific characters getting deconfirmed over this.

This could be a game changer for certain potential newcomers but since I think most of them will be older characters anyways it doesn't change my thoughts particularly much besides maybe if Xenoblade or Pokemon get someone new.

[The DanMan]

16 minutes ago, Jedi said:

This could be a game changer for certain potential newcomers but since I think most of them will be older characters anyways it doesn't change my thoughts particularly much besides maybe if Xenoblade or Pokemon get someone new.

This does kill Rex and Pyra's chances and really does seem to lock in a Gen VII 'mon.

[Armagon]

Well fuck, no way Rex and Pyra are getting in without DLC. Xenoblade 2 began development in 2014 but i'm pretty sure that was just the concept stages. Guess this also kills Spring Man/Ribbon Girl's chances of being in the base game.

Well actually, i'm gonna hold onto hope a tiny bit because New Donk City is a stage in Ultimate and Super Mario Odyssey began development in 2013.

On the bright side, Elma's (or Cross if they want to go with him) chances shot up immensely as Xenoblade X released on April 27th, 2015 in Japan.

Edit: But we'll likely still get some XC2 representation in the form of music. Can't imagine it'd be hard to implement that.

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Armagon

[Lightchao42]

I already thought back in March that the game was being made too early, but I think "starting development" only a year after the last game is a bit much, though if the "first" proposal was done at that time then hopefully it wasn't final. It would explain why only the obviously popular Switch games like BotW and Mario Odyssey have any representation thus far. Makes me wonder if the "bring back EVERYTHING!" attitude was because the developers only had a year's worth of new material to work with (though we'll still get an obligatory new Pokémon, of course).

Edited June 21, 2018 by Lightchao42

[Altrosa]

Fair enough. I apologize. It was really a much smaller group of really hideous people, and I'm really taken aback by just how pointed the whole thing got. So, again, I apologize for being an asshole there.

 

Anyway, that sort of wrecks certain other big Switch characters, too. But what about characters like Dillon, Layton, that karate guy from Rhythm Heaven or other 3DS based fighters? Their chances just rose.

 

[NSSKG151]

The project plan for Smash Ultimate was decided in Dcember 2015 huh. That's interesting. I guess that pretty much rules out any FE newcomers from Shadow of Valentia or Three Houses then. So I guess that means if we any FE newcomers at all it will be Chrom or Anna I'm guessing.

Pokémon Sun/Moon came out in 2016 right? If so, I'm assuming that means a gen 7 rep is only possible if they do the Greninja situation again.

[Anomalocaris]

This makes me worried for Rex and Pyra.

If we get DLC, they're almost certainly on the list, but it means they won't have as much presence or content from their home game unless we get a stage with them, too.

[BrightBow]

So I just took a look at this gameplay video...

Spoiler

 

...and I guess that Counters haven't been changed at all and still deal damage based on the attack that triggers it? Ike's counter deals 32 damage at 0:50 against Zelda's Forward Air, 25 at 2:38 against... Down Air I believe and only 12 at 3:31 against her multihit forward smash. *Urgh*, this is so obnoxious.

[thecrimsonflash]

10 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

So I just took a look at this gameplay video...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

...and I guess that Counters haven't been changed at all and still deal damage based on the attack that triggers it? Ike's counter deals 32 damage at 0:50 against Zelda's Forward Air, 25 at 2:38 against... Down Air I believe and only 12 at 3:31 against her multihit forward smash. *Urgh*, this is so obnoxious.

I don't mind the attack damage, but I was hoping they would give them less launch so that counters are not such good kill moves, it makes the air game really hard to work with.