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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish


Lightchao42
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Now that Ultimate has been out for a while, who is your favorite newcomer?  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your favorite base game (and Piranha Plant) newcomer?

  2. 2. Who is your favorite new Echo Fighter?

  3. 3. Who is your favorite Fighters Pass 1 character?



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40 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Besides, since this is Smash and encompasses several different franchises, why not incorporate gameplay elements from more than one series? Give us a few Mario-like platforming levels, but also Zelda-like dungeons to explore or something.

Seeing as Smash is 2-D, that'd basically be Zelda II if we incorporated the latter, which would be kind of funny.

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, just get rid of having to defeat them in a battle. I lost to them sometimes and that forced me to meet the other requirements ALL OVER again which was stupid.

Really? I'm pretty sure once you meet the conditions, they can be challenged after every Vs. Mode match until you beat them. ...I don't think I lost to any challengers on the Wii U version, but I'm pretty sure that's how it was in Brawl and Melee at least.

2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Okay for serious I would actually prefer if character unlocks were incredibly diverse and involved all of the game various modes. BUT I want the game itself to hint at what those unlock conditions are. Don't make me pull up a guide.

T'would be nice if they were part of the Challenges screen, like every single other unlockable element in the game.

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Or maybe make the story/Subspace mode NOT like a Kirby game. Kirby is hit or miss with me because of how its gameplay is sometimes. I enjoyed Kirby 64, but not Amazing Mirror because in the latter, I was just running around in circles lost all the time and not finding anything.

So Kirby-like gameplay is probably not the best idea.

Besides, since this is Smash and encompasses several different franchises, why not incorporate gameplay elements from more than one series? Give us a few Mario-like platforming levels, but also Zelda-like dungeons to explore or something.

The reason SSE played so much like Kirby is because Smash's engine is basically derived from Kirby Super Star. Even things like being able to drop through semi-solid platforms is basically a holdover from it. So it makes sense that if you made an adventure mode based off of Smash Bros., it'd wind up playing like Kirby.

Either way I don't really see the problem with it, Kirby's got some of the most solid platforming gameplay out of any of Nintendo's franchises. Though it could always stand to feature more elements (aesthetic or mechanical) from the others.

Edited by Anomalocaris
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46 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Really? I'm pretty sure once you meet the conditions, they can be challenged after every Vs. Mode match until you beat them. ...I don't think I lost to any challengers on the Wii U version, but I'm pretty sure that's how it was in Brawl and Melee at least.

Yeah, I remember sometimes after I'd lost to a character I was trying to unlock, they wouldn't reappear again until I did the requirements over.

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27 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, I remember sometimes after I'd lost to a character I was trying to unlock, they wouldn't reappear again until I did the requirements over.

This was the case with the optional, hidden fighters Subspace I mentioned.

It's been a decade, so I'm fuzzy, but both Wolf and Jigglypuff were behind secret doors waaaaay off the beaten paths and said doors didn't appear til after you beat Tabuu. Further, their AI was pre-set, so if you played on an easy difficulty, they would utterly blindside you. If you lost, you'd be kicked out of the fight and the door would be gone, and you'd need to leave and restart the area.

It would be 10+ minutes between attempts, but the other option I knew was hundreds and hundreds of normal Smash battles, so Subspace was still a more appealing option. 

I ended up getting very good with Peach in Brawl because of how much I used her in Subspace, so by the time I had everyone unlocked, I was so accustomed to Peach, I never swapped mains.

The lack of a mode like that in Smash 4 kinda ruined that game for me for a while, and I still hold that the 3DS Smash 4 was more enjoyable than WiiU because of how much better modes like Smash Run were at teaching the player and how other modes are formatted verses the WiiU counterpart.

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10 minutes ago, Altrosa said:

This was the case with the optional, hidden fighters Subspace I mentioned.

It's been a decade, so I'm fuzzy, but both Wolf and Jigglypuff were behind secret doors waaaaay off the beaten paths and said doors didn't appear til after you beat Tabuu. Further, their AI was pre-set, so if you played on an easy difficulty, they would utterly blindside you. If you lost, you'd be kicked out of the fight and the door would be gone, and you'd need to leave and restart the area.

It would be 10+ minutes between attempts, but the other option I knew was hundreds and hundreds of normal Smash battles, so Subspace was still a more appealing option. 

In my case, I didn't even find a single one of these doors. Fortunately the VS battle requirements were relatively lenient in Brawl compared to Melee with it's 700 plays for Mewtwo. 

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16 minutes ago, Altrosa said:

The lack of a mode like that in Smash 4 kinda ruined that game for me for a while, and I still hold that the 3DS Smash 4 was more enjoyable than WiiU because of how much better modes like Smash Run were at teaching the player and how other modes are formatted verses the WiiU counterpart.

Hm. I prefer the Wii U version because I can see what's going on better on a TV screen and controllers were easier for me to use than the 3DS's circle pad and stuff. I do agree that Smash Run was better than Smash Tour though.

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2 hours ago, Armagon said:

https://sourcegaming.info/2018/06/20/smash-is-special-part-1-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-557/

Turns out Source Gaming just messed up on their tweet. In the actual article, it says that Sakurai said that the first proposal was put out in December 2015. The project plan wasn't finalized. Key word there is first proposal, which means that, aside from the "everyone comes back" part, the roster likely hadn't been set in stone yet.

Which means Rex and Pyra still have a decently big chance!

 

2 hours ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

WOOOOOOOOO!!!

And the roster is included in the initial proposal-- of note is that 4's initial proposal didn't even have anything for Chrom, which means his consideration and rejection were entirely Sakurai's part as he was writing up the game plan.

 

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59 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

And the roster is included in the initial proposal-- of note is that 4's initial proposal didn't even have anything for Chrom, which means his consideration and rejection were entirely Sakurai's part as he was writing up the game plan

We know that the number one priority was to have everyone who has ever been in Smash be playable. That part was finalized for sure. But considering that development didn't actually begin until 2016, it's not out of the question to assume that the potential newcomers weren't completely finalized at the time. It's worth noting that Brawl's initial proposal didn't have Ike. Sakurai was just looking for a strong swordsman and also a Fire Emblem character and Ike fit both bills. Smash 4 had a similar case with Greninja. The original plan was just to include a new Pokemon and not necessarily Greninja (or any X/Y Pokemon for that matter).

So in the case of a new Xenoblade rep, considering that Xenoblade 2 began development in 2014, it's likely that Ultimate's initial proposal had a slot for a Xenoblade rep and they just hadn't decided on who.

Looking at it more, both Elma and Rex are equally likely imo. Xenoblade X released in 2015 and while Xenoblade 2 only began development the year prior, Sakurai implemented Greninja using only concept art as his source so it's possible that he maybe did the same with Rex and Pyra.

But i only expect one new Xenoblade rep either way, at least in the base game.

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So since planning and developing began much earlier than people thought, I kinda feel like maybe there was some...trickery involved? Trickery in Ultimate's E3 showing? If they started working on this before the DLC for Wii U/3DS was finished, and if they did keep to their word and used data from that one poll for Wii U/3DS's DLC for potential newcomers for the next game (Ultimate), I feel like maybe a couple "deconfirmed" characters may not actually be deconfirmed? Crazy theory, yeah, but I mean...I dunno. Seems kinda odd to me.

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1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

So since planning and developing began much earlier than people thought, I kinda feel like maybe there was some...trickery involved? Trickery in Ultimate's E3 showing? If they started working on this before the DLC for Wii U/3DS was finished, and if they did keep to their word and used data from that one poll for Wii U/3DS's DLC for potential newcomers for the next game (Ultimate), I feel like maybe a couple "deconfirmed" characters may not actually be deconfirmed? Crazy theory, yeah, but I mean...I dunno. Seems kinda odd to me.

I do remember something about the Smash Ballot being used in future games. Bayonetta won but if i remember correctly, they put out a list of the remaining top 4, i think. Anyone got a list for that or am i just remembering wrong?

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I'm digging and all I'm seeing is a super dedicated 4Chan guy collecting data from all over and posting that.

Removing Bayonetta, Inkling, Ridley, (so it looks like they were the ballot winners), and returning fighters like Snake and Wolf, and memes like Shrek, the winners were;

King K. Rool, Isaac, Shovel Knight, Bandana Dee, Wonder Red, Chibi Robo, or Dixie Kong.

Curiously, Bayonetta, who apparently won, is not placed highly on any unofficial list. Sakurai's focus on returning previously cut fighters looks to be a direct result from the ballot, too

 

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2 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

So since planning and developing began much earlier than people thought, I kinda feel like maybe there was some...trickery involved? Trickery in Ultimate's E3 showing? If they started working on this before the DLC for Wii U/3DS was finished, and if they did keep to their word and used data from that one poll for Wii U/3DS's DLC for potential newcomers for the next game (Ultimate), I feel like maybe a couple "deconfirmed" characters may not actually be deconfirmed? Crazy theory, yeah, but I mean...I dunno. Seems kinda odd to me.

What do you mean? As far as I know, the only characters anyone considers deconfirmed are assist trophies, Pokeballs, etc. Those certainly are still deconfirmed. They wouldn't be in those rolls if they were going to be playable.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

I do remember something about the Smash Ballot being used in future games. Bayonetta won but if i remember correctly, they put out a list of the remaining top 4, i think. Anyone got a list for that or am i just remembering wrong?

You remember incorrectly. That didn't happen.

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On 6/14/2018 at 3:21 AM, Anomalocaris said:

One of the screenshots on the official site shows Captain Falcon still has his Blood Falcon palette, with Blood Falcon's uniform pattern on his back too. So that's probably not happening.

Black Shadow it is then and even that one is a longshot. 

 

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5 hours ago, Armagon said:

I do remember something about the Smash Ballot being used in future games. Bayonetta won but if i remember correctly, they put out a list of the remaining top 4, i think. Anyone got a list for that or am i just remembering wrong?

Nintendo never did anything in regards to the ballot.

I'm of the persuasion at this point that Bayonetta didn't score remotely high and the "realizable character" excuse was PR vagueness. The dev team likely saw a good promotion opportunity/character with moveset potential and just ran with it (also of note that her games recieved a re-print shortly before her release). If the Ballot has any sort of actual bearing, I see it being now.

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7 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Nintendo never did anything in regards to the ballot.

I'm of the persuasion at this point that Bayonetta didn't score remotely high and the "realizable character" excuse was PR vagueness. The dev team likely saw a good promotion opportunity/character with moveset potential and just ran with it (also of note that her games recieved a re-print shortly before her release). If the Ballot has any sort of actual bearing, I see it being now.

I'm not so sure, they were quite specific about some things. Like I think they mentioned she was only fifth overall in the US, but first overall world wide.

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12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm not so sure, they were quite specific about some things. Like I think they mentioned she was only fifth overall in the US, but first overall world wide.

What exactly does "realizable character" mean? We roughly know who that excludes, but who do is it include? It seems like a very specific adjective, and the fact they said absolutely nothing about the results besides that is definitely a bit eyebrow raising to me.

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25 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

What exactly does "realizable character" mean? We roughly know who that excludes, but who do is it include? It seems like a very specific adjective, and the fact they said absolutely nothing about the results besides that is definitely a bit eyebrow raising to me.

In terms of moveset potential, fun potential, uniqueness, and-in regards to third party-being within a budget, I would assume, since they'd need to pay licensing fees for the third-party character.

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11 minutes ago, Dai said:

In terms of moveset potential, fun potential, uniqueness, and-in regards to third party-being within a budget, I would assume, since they'd need to pay licensing fees for the third-party character.

Obviously; hence why I said we know roughly what it excludes.

I just find the entire thing so vague overall as to be rendered largely meaningless-- for a ballot and its purpoted winner, we know virtually nothing about the criteria by which they "won" as well as their overall competition.

Edited by The DanMan
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1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

What exactly does "realizable character" mean? We roughly know who that excludes, but who do is it include? It seems like a very specific adjective, and the fact they said absolutely nothing about the results besides that is definitely a bit eyebrow raising to me.

Well that's just simple math. If we know (roughly) what it excludes, then what it includes is equal to everything that's not what it excludes.

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22 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well that's just simple math. If we know (roughly) what it excludes, then what it includes is equal to everything that's not what it excludes.

Obviously it excludes characters who they'd have to go through licensing issues to get and non-videogame characters in general, but that's still a very broad pool to go off of. 

I can totally get a moderate amount of disparity between fan polls and the final result-- but Bayonetta was nowhere on them. The whole situation seems incredibly vague-- for instance, the CYL polls for FEH were very transparent about things and gave out halfway results. Why couldn't they have done anything like that for the Ballot? Heck, would it have hurt to release the supposed top 5 after the fact? The whole thing just doesn't make much sense; we know absolutely nothing about anybody on the Ballot except what they told us about Bayonetta.

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24 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Obviously it excludes characters who they'd have to go through licensing issues to get and non-videogame characters in general, but that's still a very broad pool to go off of. 

I can totally get a moderate amount of disparity between fan polls and the final result-- but Bayonetta was nowhere on them. The whole situation seems incredibly vague-- for instance, the CYL polls for FEH were very transparent about things and gave out halfway results. Why couldn't they have done anything like that for the Ballot? Heck, would it have hurt to release the supposed top 5 after the fact? The whole thing just doesn't make much sense; we know absolutely nothing about anybody on the Ballot except what they told us about Bayonetta.

Sakurai knows that Smash speculation is competitive enough that the backlash would be apocalyptic if the full ballot results were released. Bayonetta got plenty of complaining already but can you imagine how people would react if another popular character barely lost to her? I think Sakurai is smart enough to avoid that kind of thing and to preserve some surprises if they take from the ballot in the future.

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39 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Obviously it excludes characters who they'd have to go through licensing issues to get and non-videogame characters in general, but that's still a very broad pool to go off of. 

I can totally get a moderate amount of disparity between fan polls and the final result-- but Bayonetta was nowhere on them. The whole situation seems incredibly vague-- for instance, the CYL polls for FEH were very transparent about things and gave out halfway results. Why couldn't they have done anything like that for the Ballot? Heck, would it have hurt to release the supposed top 5 after the fact? The whole thing just doesn't make much sense; we know absolutely nothing about anybody on the Ballot except what they told us about Bayonetta.

Well they also told us Cloud was first in one region. I mean, what are you proposing? That they actively lied to us just to get Bayonetta in when they just as easily could have put her in because they felt like it and truthfully said the ballot was for future games? Being elusive about what their intentions really isn't practical at all.

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6 hours ago, Florete said:

What do you mean? As far as I know, the only characters anyone considers deconfirmed are assist trophies, Pokeballs, etc. Those certainly are still deconfirmed. They wouldn't be in those rolls if they were going to be playable.

That's kinda exactly what I mean. I mean that maybe certain characters they've shown as Assist Trophies actually aren't going to be Assist Trophies and they only showed them as such to mislead people and keep some things a surprise. Like I said, crazy theory, I know. But somehow it doesn't feel like it's too outlandish.

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1 minute ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

That's kinda exactly what I mean. I mean that maybe certain characters they've shown as Assist Trophies actually aren't going to be Assist Trophies and they only showed them as such to mislead people and keep some things a surprise. Like I said, crazy theory, I know. But somehow it doesn't feel like it's too outlandish.

Sounds like this would be right up your alley. =P
 


Warning, this video contains OPINIONS and THEORIES.

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