Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Michelaar]

2 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

That's kinda exactly what I mean. I mean that maybe certain characters they've shown as Assist Trophies actually aren't going to be Assist Trophies and they only showed them as such to mislead people and keep some things a surprise. Like I said, crazy theory, I know. But somehow it doesn't feel like it's too outlandish.

That... makes no sense. They didn't do this in Smash 4, so why would they do that now?

[Fire Emblem Fan]

2 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

That... makes no sense. They didn't do this in Smash 4, so why would they do that now?

They didn't call Smash 4 "Ultimate" or put so much emphasis on keeping secrets up their sleeves like they specifically said they were for Ultimate during E3.

Like I said, if they were using the Smash ballot as a reference point, then it makes NO sense for certain characters to still be Assist Trophies or anything like that.

[Dai]

1 minute ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

They didn't call Smash 4 "Ultimate" or put so much emphasis on keeping secrets up their sleeves like they specifically said they were for Ultimate during E3.

Like I said, if they were using the Smash ballot as a reference point, then it makes NO sense for certain characters to still be Assist Trophies or anything like that.

I feel like a lot of the community would be REALLY pissed off if Nintendo pulled a trick where a character is shown to be an assist trophy is actually a playable character. I mean...why even bother going through with that programming, first off?

[Michelaar]

47 minutes ago, Dai said:

I feel like a lot of the community would be REALLY pissed off if Nintendo pulled a trick where a character is shown to be an assist trophy is actually a playable character. I mean...why even bother going through with that programming, first off?

This basically.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Dai said:

I feel like a lot of the community would be REALLY pissed off if Nintendo pulled a trick where a character is shown to be an assist trophy is actually a playable character. I mean...why even bother going through with that programming, first off?

Why would the fan base be pissed?

[Dai]

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Why would the fan base be pissed?

That'd be kind of a really dirty trick to pull. Consider how Sakurai teases his fans. It's fun, and doesn't come across as malicious. Take for example, when talking about Samus Aran upon splitting them in Smash 4. He spent only a few seconds making it seem like Zero Suit was not returning, but confirmed her return instantly after that bit of fun. Compare here, making it seem as if, say, Waluigi is an Assist, and then, for weeks, if not months, not revealing he's an actual playable character and then finally saying, "Hey, here he is!" Plus, this coming hot off the heels of people spending months arguing about whether or not this was a port?

Edit: To add on to that, it'd be even more egregious given the popularity of a character. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Dai

[Jotari]

24 minutes ago, Dai said:

That'd be kind of a really dirty trick to pull. Consider how Sakurai teases his fans. It's fun, and doesn't come across as malicious. Take for example, when talking about Samus Aran upon splitting them in Smash 4. He spent only a few seconds making it seem like Zero Suit was not returning, but confirmed her return instantly after that bit of fun. Compare here, making it seem as if, say, Waluigi is an Assist, and then, for weeks, if not months, not revealing he's an actual playable character and then finally saying, "Hey, here he is!" Plus, this coming hot off the heels of people spending months arguing about whether or not this was a port?

Edit: To add on to that, it'd be even more egregious given the popularity of a character. 

I remember people being fearful about the idea of Zero Suit being cut, but nobody hating him for being playful about it (people were way more annoyed about the fact that she had rocket heels). I can't see why people would get angry. If a character I really waned to get in was shown off as an assist trophy at first but then later got into the game, then I'd be delighted that they were in the game. If it was a character I didn't care about, then, well, I wouldn't care because I don't care about the character either way. People are always going to find reasons to be pissed, but I can't see a chain of reasoning that would cause a significant number of people to be annoyed if something like that was pulled. It's basically what they did with Toon Link being part of the Spirit Tracks stage in SSB4. Sure, people were vexed when it first looked like he isn't going to be a playable character (which is what's already happened with the assist trophies), but I can't remember anyone getting angry that he ended up actually being in the game.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Jotari

[Florete]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'm not so sure, they were quite specific about some things. Like I think they mentioned she was only fifth overall in the US, but first overall world wide.

Specifically, they said she was top 5 in the US, first in Europe, and #1 overall.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well they also told us Cloud was first in one region.

They never said that.

[The DanMan]

2 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

Sakurai knows that Smash speculation is competitive enough that the backlash would be apocalyptic if the full ballot results were released. Bayonetta got plenty of complaining already but can you imagine how people would react if another popular character barely lost to her? I think Sakurai is smart enough to avoid that kind of thing and to preserve some surprises if they take from the ballot in the future.

Sakurai is one person; he's in the director's chair, but he's one person. He's got an entire dev team and has to answer to Nintendo. I doubt most decisions like this are exclusively made by him. It could be that Nintendo decided to save the ballot results because they will be using the top voted characters. But Smash is gonna cause a ton of salt either way.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well they also told us Cloud was first in one region. I mean, what are you proposing? That they actively lied to us just to get Bayonetta in when they just as easily could have put her in because they felt like it and truthfully said the ballot was for future games? Being elusive about what their intentions really isn't practical at all.

The only info I remember was that Cloud was the most poplar final fantasy character in the ballot.
Who knows what happened exactly? I just don't think things line up-- we have a character who came out of nowhere yet was purpotedly the ballot winner (despite being all but absent in fan polls) based on vague criteria and know absolutely nothing else about the results.
My gut says she was picked after the ballot was under way due to marketing and moveset potential and that the vagueness around it all is directly related to that-- I mean, she could be the "most realizable character" because they thought they could do more with her than K.Rool and co./"realize" a better moveset. 
TL;DR I don't know exactly what happened and don't claim to know for a fact, but I personally doubt she beat many other characters which is a belief spurred on by the complete vagueness around the situation. 

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Sakurai is one person; he's in the director's chair, but he's one person. He's got an entire dev team and has to answer to Nintendo. I doubt most decisions like this are exclusively made by him. It could be that Nintendo decided to save the ballot results because they will be using the top voted characters. But Smash is gonna cause a ton of salt either way.

The only info I remember was that Cloud was the most poplar final fantasy character in the ballot.
Who knows what happened exactly? I just don't think things line up-- we have a character who came out of nowhere yet was purpotedly the ballot winner (despite being all but absent in fan polls) based on vague criteria and know absolutely nothing else about the results.
My gut says she was picked after the ballot was under way due to marketing and moveset potential and that the vagueness around it all is directly related to that-- I mean, she could be the "most realizable character" because they thought they could do more with her than K.Rool and co./"realize" a better moveset. 
TL;DR I don't know exactly what happened and don't claim to know for a fact, but I personally doubt she beat many other characters which is a belief spurred on by the complete vagueness around the situation. 

But like, why would they lie? If they wanted to just put her in the game despite the fan's wishes, they absolutely could have done that and not connected her to the Smash Ballot at all (that's what they did with Ryu, right?). Cloud could have been the declared winner or they could even say none of the data would be used as a deciding factor for SSB4's roster and no one would think it odd.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Jotari

[The DanMan]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

But like, why would they lie? If they wanted to just put her in the game despite the fan's wishes, they absolutely could have done that and not connected her to the Smash Ballot at all.

Did they lie? After all, she was only the "most realizable character".

Really, I've laid out all my logic already and have little else to say. As someone who wasn't really hoping/rooting for anyone in the ballot I just find the circumstances around Bayonetta winning it very vague and fishy. We'll likely never know for certain one way or another; I'm just a bit intrigued that I'm the only person here who sees it like that.

[Jotari]

10 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Did they lie? After all, she was only the "most realizable character".

Really, I've laid out all my logic already and have little else to say. As someone who wasn't really hoping/rooting for anyone in the ballot I just find the circumstances around Bayonetta winning it very vague and fishy. We'll likely never know for certain one way or another; I'm just a bit intrigued that I'm the only person here who sees it like that.

Well then I'll rephrase, what could they hope to gain by being deceptive about the results?

[The DanMan]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well then I'll rephrase, what could they hope to gain by being deceptive about the results?

To try to mitigate backlash by painting her as number 1 something in the ballot-- after all, if they did basically ignore the top characters for the time being and went for someone else instead, there'd be even more backlash and it would be completely deserved. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

This conversation is riveting, but it's missing one crucial detail.

They never said the winner of the Ballot would get into Smash 4. 

From the Direct it was announced in, "Of course, please understand that we won't be able to accomodate every request. But Mr. Sakurai and the staff will take every request into consideration when developing additional titles." There was no promise made that their final DLC character would be anybody performing high in the ballot. Saying that she scored as well as she did was just an addendum to her inclusion. Nobody I know dared to believe the Ballot would impact a character inclusion for Smash 4, but instead was just taking our temperature for a future Smash Bros. game. At this point we didn't even think there would be non-veteran DLC characters or that DLC production would continue for more than a few months.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

2 hours ago, Dai said:

I feel like a lot of the community would be REALLY pissed off if Nintendo pulled a trick where a character is shown to be an assist trophy is actually a playable character. I mean...why even bother going through with that programming, first off?

You say why, I say why not? Didn't anyone notice that certain high-profile Assist Trophy characters weren't actually summoned during actual Ultimate gameplay at E3? Didn't anyone notice that all the footage used for Lyn wasn't even new but was old footage from Smash 4's promotions, including some of the footage used for Roy's promotions in Smash 4? Waluigi wasn't summoned at all and the ONLY new footage they showed of him as an Assist was him being "k.o.'ed" and honestly it wouldn't be hard at all to make that clip for that purpose, and then just make him playable. I really think one or two of those Assists are going to actually be playable. They said, specifically, they had some unexpected surprises up their sleeves. What better than a little misleading like that?

I think people are really overestimating how mad anyone would be, I highly doubt people would be mad about being misled. I personally think it would be brilliant and I'd have nothing but applause for them if they did that.

[Armagon]

I would honestly like to know where this idea that Waluigi and other Assist Trophies being Assists is just a lie to reveal them as playable later on. Because it just sounds really dumb. 

 

[Dai]

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I would honestly like to know where this idea that Waluigi and other Assist Trophies being Assists is just a lie to reveal them as playable later on. Because it just sounds really dumb. 

 

The video I linked earlier was where I first heard it. Can't say where else it might have come from.

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Dai said:

The video I linked earlier was where I first heard it. Can't say where else it might have come from.

I saw the video but knowing Alpharad, i'm sure that he made the video somewhat as a joke.

Edit: No, it was most likely a joke.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Armagon

[thecrimsonflash]

3 hours ago, Dai said:

Sounds like this would be right up your alley. =P

Warning, this video contains OPINIONS and THEORIES.

I'm not gonna lie, this guy is great, being able to take satisfaction in sakurai pulling the wool over our eyes, and instilling false hope into waluigi fans only for their dreams to be crushed, I can respect that.

It's kind of like me holding out hoping for Grandmaster robin and vanguard Ike to be a thing in ultimate, but only knowing that I am setting myself up for disappointment, I really hope that DLC alts are a thing, if sakurai doesn't want to add these because he doesn't want us to have to pay for them, but that is the reason they are not a thing, that is really sad, at least let us mod in alts, or just let me give you $25 for a single alt, no extra colors, just the alt, why can't we settle this like normal people?

[Robert Stewart]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

I would honestly like to know where this idea that Waluigi and other Assist Trophies being Assists is just a lie to reveal them as playable later on. Because it just sounds really dumb. 

 

It reminds me of nothing so much as Ridley fans trying to deny that Pyrosphere meant anything.

People will grasp at whatever straws they can to keep supporting their favorites. I only hope that when the final release comes they keep their disappointment in check.

[Dai]

3 minutes ago, Robert of Normandy said:

People will grasp at whatever straws they can to keep supporting their favorites. I only hope that when the final release comes they keep their disappointment in check.

I kind of doubt it. People have a nasty habit of raising their expectations quite high with any Smash game.

[NSSKG151]

Are people really that desperate to start thinking that assist trophy characters like Waluigi, Lyn and Takamaru only appear to be in that role and will actually show up as playable later on, I mean really? Isn't that just being too much wishful thinking and looking a little too deep into things. I mean kudos for still being supportive of your favorite characters but still...

4 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Waluigi wasn't summoned at all and the ONLY new footage they showed of him as an Assist was him being "k.o.'ed" and honestly it wouldn't be hard at all to make that clip for that purpose, and then just make him playable.

That clip was shown to show that you can knock out assist trophy characters and be rewarded by adding a point to your score. Why would they use Waluigi as an example if he wasn't an assist trophy character?

[Lau]

I really doubt Waluigi will become playable. If Sakurai changes Waluigi's status now due to fan demand, it just opens up the floodgates. If fan demand is enough to sway Sakurai's mind, they'll keep doing it for other popular Assist Trophies - Midna, Ghirahim, Lyn, Knuckles, etc. Sakurai's done so much work just bringing back everyone, I hate that he's being bombarded with this. It's rather disrespectful.

In regards to Echo fighters...I've seen a lot of people clamouring for Shadow, or Ken, etc. I don't want any more 3rd parties from franchises we already have. ...Though is Zack Fair gets added as an Echo of Cloud (oh the irony), I won't complain, he's the only one I'll make an exception for due to personal bias. As for first parties...I strongly believe Chrom will be an Echo of Ike. Robin's reveal trailer from last time was too good of an opportunity to miss. ...Just give everyone an Echo, hahah.

As for newcomers...Bandana Dee is my ultimate number one pick. He has been since Smash 4, I bought a Waddle Dee plush just to show my support (He sits next to my TV he's super cute and squidgy), and he's a spear user. I'd love to see the likes of Isaac, Sora, and Decidueye be added, but we'll see.

[Jedi]

 

We have these now.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Jedi

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I love how certain people are low-key being straight up assholes with the "people are desperate and grasping at straws" comments lol...