Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Lau]

6 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

There's a difference between simply getting innocently deceived by a leak (what I presume you did) and turning the community into a toxic waste dump by latching onto it, treating it with 100% certainty, insulting people who show even the slightest skepticism toward it, and then raging like a spoiled child when it turns out to be fake because you got your expectations unreasonably high (which I presume you didn't do).

It's a very impressive leak so I don't fault people for thinking it could have been real.

I agree with you about those who were absolutely disgusting towards those who didn't believe it, it was painful to read a lot of the times, and was completely unnecessary. I just don't like it when people offhandedly group us all together, but that's something I have to get over.

If there's one thing that this leak has finally taught me, it's to not believe anything ever again, hahah. I thought I'd learnt my lesson from the Rayman leak, but as always, I'm persuaded one way or another :(

[Anomalocaris]

1 minute ago, Lau said:

I agree with you about those who were absolutely disgusting towards those who didn't believe it, it was painful to read a lot of the times, and was completely unnecessary. I just don't like it when people offhandedly group us all together, but that's something I have to get over.

If there's one thing that this leak has finally taught me, it's to not believe anything ever again, hahah. I thought I'd learnt my lesson from the Rayman leak, but as always, I'm persuaded one way or another :(

I should have been clearer in my text, perhaps, that I was condemning the specific portion of the community that both believes every leak and behaves in a toxic and obstinate manner once they're convinced, not the myriad of innocent bystander groups.

With how crazy Smash leaks have been since the days of Brawl, I've simply learned to take everything not specifically shown to us by Nintendo with a grain of salt and rely on my intuition; if it sounds too good to be true (like most wishlist leaks) it probably isn't, and committing 100% to any given leak is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I myself believed the Box Theory because it made logical sense to me, and while that turned out to be correct I nevertheless always kept myself open to the possibility of being wrong.

[The DanMan]

2 hours ago, Iridium said:

Good. I'm glad that a roster that added Incineroar and Piranha Plant over characters that people actually wanted was set up to get as much backlash as possible. People deserve better than accepting low expectations when everything comes at a price.

Would it really have that hard to add... pretty much anyone on the Assist Trophy page instead, honestly? Isaac, Shadow, Waluigi, Krystal, Skull Kid, Lyn, Black Knight, Ashley, Midna, Shovel Knight... I'd argue that even Dillon, Yuri, Sukapon, the ghost of Saki Amamiya (why is he gone sakurai explain yourself), and the Prince of Sablé would have been much better. But nope, gotta add the obligatory advertising mon and a joke character in a game that already has Pichu, Jigglypuff, Wii Fit Trainer, and several other characters that could potentially qualify like Duck Hunt.

If you're going to be that tone-deaf in your roster-decision making process, you don't deserve praise. The Grinch roster demonstrated how easy it was to make a roster that would have pleased most people (even if you remove the unique third-parties!), and if it's done anything to make Sakurai's failure to do so more apparent, I'm glad it happened.

Wow. Just... wow.

Comparing an image edit with obscure characters (sans Shadow and Ken, the latter of whom got in) with actually creating newcomers from a development perspective... wow.

Also, assuming vocal minority circlejerks on the internet = everybody; barely anybody realistically gives a damn (or has even heard of) about the likes of Geno, Isaac, and Banjo. Personally, I don't, and the Grinch "leak's" roster was disappointing because it felt like a forumgoer's wet dream from the early 2000s and out of touch with reality. I'm glad Incineroar got in.

We had credible leakers saying the banner was fake and teasing that Ken and Incineroar where left at base, yet people hopelessly clinged to a fuzzy picture of a banner and shouted them down. Nevermind that Sakurai repeatedly stressed that there'd be fewer newcomers than usual due to the focus on bringing everyone back.

But I'm talking to a guy who claimed "nobody should be excited for this game" back during FEW's pre-release cycle; since it broke a million, I guess your vitriolic disapproval is a stamp of fiscal success.

[vanguard333]

I didn't get caught up in the leaks; I ignore and avoid leaks whenever possible, and I'm still a little disappointed; not out of any sense of entitlement, but just because I really don't like Incineroar. Decidueye, Sceptile, Infernape, Blaziken; these were all better options. Instead, they went for another slow bulky fist fighter. That is the reason I feel a little disappointed; instead of the original character being a notable character liked by fans and who brings something original and interesting to the roster, we get the Heel Wrestler Cat that is the least liked of all three Gen 7 starters. 

Also I'm a little saddened that none of the characters I personally was hoping for (Captain Toad, Micaiah, Decidueye/Sceptile) got in as playable fighters. But, oh well; here's hoping one of them gets in as a DLC character. 

[Zangetsu]

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

Never mind, Rena Strober just confirmed she didn't sing the new Lifelight song.

 

Yea, I just saw her Twitter too. Damn, I wanted it to her so badly!

 

1 hour ago, Lau said:

I'm not ashamed to admit that those guys got me - but can we lay off on the "gullible community" falling for it? Those guys planned it out extensively, and everything seemed to add up.

After rewatching the direct a couple of times, I'm very slowly warming up to Incineroar. There's a lot of personality, and it's so brutal, hahah.

I'm kinda how many people were trick by that. I can't blame them, especially on those on want it to be true.

 

 

Anyways, I'm surprise to see how much backlash Incineroar is getting & praises Piranha Plant is getting. What a weird revelation

Edited November 1, 2018 by Zangetsu

[NegativeExponents-]

Everybody’s talking about the Grinch leak being fake but I’m surprised that no one’s brought up (as far as I can tell anyway) that the Vergeben leak was actually real. I mean, the info was pretty consistent but I also thought it could just be like a really lucky streak, but nope, it was actually legit.

Anyway as far as the reveals go, I’m so excited for Incineroar! Aww, he just looks so cool! Also, he has a suplex! Now if only there was a train to suplex he’d basically be a Sabin that lacks the k̶a̶m̶e̶h̶a̶m̶e̶h̶a̶ Aura Cannon. I was actually under the assumption that Incineroar was the most popular Alola starter but I guess he’s not seeing his negative reception. At this point though I’m questioning if there even is an Alola starter that is more popular than the other two Alola starters since there doesn’t seem to be a clear consensus.

Piranha Plant was such an out of left field announcement. I kinda like it though. It looks fun. I will say though, even for a joke character, Piranha Plant just seems so odd and personally think Waluigi would have been infinitely better as a joke character. Also, why not just straight up have Petey Piranha instead? Just feels like there were some really good choices for a Mario series joke character and they went for the one absolutely no one asked for. Again, I don’t hate it but the decision is all sorts of baffling.

Seeing Isaac as an assist trophy was the absolute worst though. Ugh, makes wonder if they’ll even consider making him a dlc character now that he’s technically already in the game. Assist trophies in general seem to just have lots of fan favorites like Shovel Knight, Zero, Shadow, Alucard, Isaac, etc. I mean I know it’s unreasonable to expect all of them to be playable but gosh I wish at least a few of these were in the roster.

Edited November 2, 2018 by NegativeExponents-
Clarification

[Dai]

I forgot this image turned out to be real.

[Zangetsu]

4 minutes ago, Dai said:

I forgot this image turned out to be real.

The box theory & this leak was the only legit leaks as I can recall

[Anomalocaris]

32 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

The box theory & this leak was the only legit leaks as I can recall

Verbegen, too. He predicted Ridley, Daisy, and "some" returning cuts would be at E3, and that Simon, Isabelle, Ken, and Incineroar would be in the game. While he got some things wrong (Minecraft content, a new Square rep), it's more likely his primary sources were legit.

I dunno if I'd call the Box Theory a leak, though. Just an inference made from information supplied by Nintendo themselves.

[Florete]

I don't know if it's new or if he said it before, but Vergeben is saying the Square Enix rep is DLC.

At this point I figure I might as well believe him.

[Armagon]

Ok so i just wanna point out

Azurda isn't scaled down to fit Mii proportions. Like, that is actually Azurda's model from Xenoblade 2. I mean, he is small enough so it's not like it matters, it's just odd that Azurda is even there in the first place.

 

[Dai]

Yanno...I think the reactions might have been better if we swapped Ken and Incineroar with Simon and Richter. It certainly would have fit with the morning after Halloween, along with “the morning sun has come to vanquish this horrible night”.

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

Anyways, I'm surprise to see how much backlash Incineroar is getting & praises Piranha Plant is getting. What a weird revelation

Why is it a surprise? Piranha Plant is such a bizarre, out-of-left-field addition that somehow works; of course people are going to love it.

As for Incineroar, it's probably the most disliked of the gen 7 starters; the most liked being Decidueye. It's also yet another big, slow, bulky fist fighter compared to the greater originality one of the other two starters could have brought instead. Of course it's going to get a lot of backlash; especially since it was the last base-game newcomer to be announced, so people were naturally expecting a fan-favourite or a beloved character from a series that doesn't get much recognition, and instead saw... Incineroar. 

[NinjaMonkey]

23 minutes ago, Dai said:

Yanno...I think the reactions might have been better if we swapped Ken and Incineroar with Simon and Richter.

It would have been better if they swapped Ken and Incineroar with the reveals of Ridley and K.Rool, as they'd have ended the reveals with a bang and not a whimper.

Edited November 2, 2018 by NinjaMonkey

[The DanMan]

52 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Verbegen, too. He predicted Ridley, Daisy, and "some" returning cuts would be at E3, and that Simon, Isabelle, Ken, and Incineroar would be in the game. While he got some things wrong (Minecraft content, a new Square rep), it's more likely his primary sources were legit.

I dunno if I'd call the Box Theory a leak, though. Just an inference made from information supplied by Nintendo themselves.

As soon as the Box Theory started popping up he moved the SE character to DLC, which matches the current claims of Spawn Wave (who also has a solid track record with Smash) and other insiders teasing that it's Sora.

As for the Minecraft content, it could be something as simple as a Spirit or we're looking at more DLC.

3 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

Anyways, I'm surprise to see how much backlash Incineroar is getting & praises Piranha Plant is getting. What a weird revelation

17 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Piranha Plant is such a bizarre, out-of-left-field addition that somehow works; of course people are going to love it.

Here, maybe there isn't that much (aside from Iridium). Other places? Incineroar isn't hated as much because Piranha Plant is drawing it all in (heck, even ZeRo's reaction during the first 30 seconds of it's proper reveal was irately cursing it out after getting ticked off that Rex will only ever be a Mii Fighter costume).

This Direct in general has caused far more backlash than even those of us who strongly doubted the Mural deal would've suspected; between Piranha Plant, no trophies, and gutting single player modes (only 100 Multi-Man Smash remains alongside All-Star getting thrown under it) for a bunch of different Event Matches with an "Adventure Mode" that has minimal/no cutscenes (based on the Japanese Direct) and pales compared to the SSE in terms of original content or even other fighting game stories in terms of interactions/fanservice (would it have been too hard to even just have VN-style portrait interactions between characters?), it's definitely chilled reception in a lot of circles. 

As you can probably tell, I'm most disappointed about the single-player content.

[Zangetsu]

58 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

Verbegen, too. He predicted Ridley, Daisy, and "some" returning cuts would be at E3, and that Simon, Isabelle, Ken, and Incineroar would be in the game. While he got some things wrong (Minecraft content, a new Square rep), it's more likely his primary sources were legit.

I dunno if I'd call the Box Theory a leak, though. Just an inference made from information supplied by Nintendo themselves.

I wouldn't say Verbegen was that accurate either but that would mean I have to look up every leak again.

 

58 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

I dunno if I'd call the Box Theory a leak, though. Just an inference made from information supplied by Nintendo themselves.

Right, totally use the wrong word there.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Dai said:

Yanno...I think the reactions might have been better if we swapped Ken and Incineroar with Simon and Richter. It certainly would have fit with the morning after Halloween, along with “the morning sun has come to vanquish this horrible night”.

In hindsight, yes, but honestly who really cares at this point? The game is coming next month & it's not like they effed up the advertisement of Ultimate.

 

22 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Why is it a surprise? Piranha Plant is such a bizarre, out-of-left-field addition that somehow works; of course people are going to love it.

As for Incineroar, it's probably the most disliked of the gen 7 starters; the most liked being Decidueye. It's also yet another big, slow, bulky fist fighter compared to the greater originality one of the other two starters could have brought instead. Of course it's going to get a lot of backlash; especially since it was the last base-game newcomer to be announced, so people were naturally expecting a fan-favourite or a beloved character from a series that doesn't get much recognition, and instead saw... Incineroar. 

Sure, but I'm more surprise how chill everyone is (on this site) on it's inclusion.

 

Also, totally jump off the Pokemon bandwagon years ago, so I'm not really all that familiar on what's what with the franchise.

10 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Here, maybe there isn't that much (aside from Iridium). Other places? Incineroar isn't hated as much because Piranha Plant is drawing it all in (heck, even ZeRo's reaction during the first 30 seconds of it's proper reveal was irately cursing it out after getting ticked off that Rex will only ever be a Mii Fighter costume).

Guess I spoke too soon

[NinjaMonkey]

5 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

 gutting single player modes

They already gutted the single-player mode in Smash 4.

7 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

for a bunch of different Event Matches with an "Adventure Mode" that has minimal/no cutscenes (based on the Japanese Direct) and pales compared to the SSE in terms of original content or even other fighting game stories in terms of interactions/fanservice

Still a lot better than Smash Tour. Besides, the general consensus is that the Subspace Emissary isn't well-liked.

[Anomalocaris]

2 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

Still a lot better than Smash Tour. Besides, the general consensus is that the Subspace Emissary isn't well-liked.

I was under the impression that its general consensus was "flawed but enjoyable enough to want to see it improved instead of scrapped."

Either way I'm actually looking forward to World of Light. Sure, I'd prefer platforming stages with mooks to beat up on, but navigating a map from unique battle to unique battle, including bosses, sounds a heck of a lot fun. And they even added some kind of story and cutscene content! I hope this mode has some solid replayability. Between it and the fixed Classic Mode this could actually be some good singleplayer content.

[Landmaster]

6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

No; no he wasn't. Decidueye was the obvious choice. Decidueye's more popular, provides more balance in the pokemon roster by being a grass-type starter, and is primarily an archer; giving him more originality. Incineroar's just another slow fist fighter that I'm half-surprised wasn't a Bowser or Donkey Kong Echo. 

Plus, if Piranha Plant can move around the stage, I'm sure Primarina can.

By the way, what's with the amount of Awakening in this game? I'm fine with Lucina and Robin since they were in Smash 4, and Tiki's great because it adds to the FE assist trophies. But still; Chrom, Robin, Lucina, Tiki… Anyone else noticing a pattern? Meanwhile characters like Micaiah and Ephraim that people wanted added to the roster are just spirits. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Grima appears as a boss (which, admittedly, would be pretty cool due the possessed Robin gimmick and Grima being both the boss and the stage. Massive missed opportunity though if he doesn't tilt or roll over). 

Decidueye is more popular internationally, yes, but in Japan Incineroar is actually most popular of the Starters. So yes, he actually is the more obvious choice, Sakurai's gonna most likely go with a character that has the bigger popularity in there. All Decidueye has going for him really is the being an archer/unique but it's highly obvious why they'd want to make use of Incineroar's wrestler capabilities in a fighting game~

[Jedi]

47 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Decidueye is more popular internationally, yes, but in Japan Incineroar is actually most popular of the Starters. So yes, he actually is the more obvious choice, Sakurai's gonna most likely go with a character that has the bigger popularity in there. All Decidueye has going for him really is the being an archer/unique but it's highly obvious why they'd want to make use of Incineroar's wrestler capabilities in a fighting game~

Plus all the nods to Zangief were great in Sakurai’s own words even.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

No; no he wasn't. Decidueye was the obvious choice. Decidueye's more popular, provides more balance in the pokemon roster by being a grass-type starter, and is primarily an archer; giving him more originality. Incineroar's just another slow fist fighter that I'm half-surprised wasn't a Bowser or Donkey Kong Echo. 

Plus, if Piranha Plant can move around the stage, I'm sure Primarina can.

By the way, what's with the amount of Awakening in this game? I'm fine with Lucina and Robin since they were in Smash 4, and Tiki's great because it adds to the FE assist trophies. But still; Chrom, Robin, Lucina, Tiki… Anyone else noticing a pattern? Meanwhile characters like Micaiah and Ephraim that people wanted added to the roster are just spirits. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Grima appears as a boss (which, admittedly, would be pretty cool due the possessed Robin gimmick and Grima being both the boss and the stage. Massive missed opportunity though if he doesn't tilt or roll over). 

Weird. It's almost like Awakening was a massive hit propelled Fire Emblem to a major Nintendo franchise over night.

[Florete]

1 hour ago, Landmaster said:

Decidueye is more popular internationally, yes, but in Japan Incineroar is actually most popular of the Starters. So yes, he actually is the more obvious choice, Sakurai's gonna most likely go with a character that has the bigger popularity in there. All Decidueye has going for him really is the being an archer/unique but it's highly obvious why they'd want to make use of Incineroar's wrestler capabilities in a fighting game~

Not quite. I can't find the full results, but based on this, Rowlet and Primarina are more popular in Japan than any of the Litten line.

Also, popularity in Japan is overrated. People cite it all the time but it rarely, if ever, actually seems to be a factor in choices.

[Jotari]

I'm one those guys that didn't pay attention to any leaks at all. So can someone explain to me what exactly the box theory was? I have a vague idea, but not clue to the specifics.

3 minutes ago, Florete said:

Not quite. I can't find the full results, but based on this, Rowlet and Primarina are more popular in Japan than any of the Litten line.

Also, popularity in Japan is overrated. People cite it all the time but it rarely, if ever, actually seems to be a factor in choices.

Well it was definitely a factor in Marth and Roy getting in back in the Melee days...for obvious reasons.

[Acacia Sgt]

I'm pretty sure back then Jigglypuff got in because of her popularity in Japan (back in the day; not sure if she's still popular).

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'm pretty sure back then Jigglypuff got in because of her popularity in Japan (back in the day; not sure if she's still popular).

I'd say partially, but I'd also say it was down to Pokemon's massive popularity in general and Jigglypuff making for a convenient Echo of Kirby.